Lucifer hits the Gauntlet !!!

if LT is as strong as you say he should have defeated her less she's stronger then him now, and even one death is not that powerful she cant do jack squat and beside that thanos who is cursed with death has stated he can die indeed, i dont go by interpretation thats hidden in layers i dont think comics work that way i think they lay out what they mean its not like comics are for intellectuals not saying that intelectuals dont read them, and we're not as versed in MU or DC as you are so our opinions do tend to change.

Originally posted by Mider
if LT is as strong as you say he should have defeated her less she's stronger then him now,

But LT never battled Death.

All she needed to do is recreate him(Korvac)...which she can instantly.
She never defeated LT, she simply helped Korvac not be killed by LT, which she can do since she rules the concept of Death across the Multiverse.

Originally posted by Mider
and even one death is not that powerful she cant do jack squat

Death can kill or resurrect any being in the Multiverse, except for the Multiverse itself and the hierarchy above Multi-Eternity.

She doesn't kill Abstracts cause that would defeat her purpose.
No Abstracts = No life = No Death.

Originally posted by Mider
and beside that thanos who is cursed with death has stated he can die indeed,

If Death doesn't want you to die..you don't die.
Unless it's a character more powerful than Death doing the killing.

Originally posted by Mider
i dont go by interpretation thats hidden in layers i dont think comics work that way

But it wasn't hidden in layers...what are you talking about....it was plain english.

"By MY MACHINATIONS I have gained the upper hand...soon now...THIS UNIVERSE shall be mine"....That's Death talking.

And here is the Writer himself talking.
"Death----Korvac's Unbidden ALLY---Death Korvac's Unwanted MASTER"

Do you know what an ALLY is?
ALLY: a person or organization that cooperates with or helps another in a particular activity.

Originally posted by Mider
i think they lay out what they mean its not like comics are for intellectuals not saying that intelectuals dont read them,

Yea they did lay out what it means in plain english, you must of missed it...good thing I pointed it out for you....now you know.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Atleast I make an interpretation and stick by it.
Not change my opinion on an issue when it suits my arguement at the moment.
Then contradict myself on the next arguement by changing my opinion again.

I have no proof there's a Multi-Death?

meh, an oldi but goodi.



So much for no proof.

It was Death that protected Korvac from LT, from annihilation, how? Death simply didn't permit Korvac to die. How? It's Death, just like Thanos isn't fazed by mortality because of Death, so she did the same for Korvac.

Death was Korvac's unbidden ally-Death was Korvac's unwanted master.

Death manipulated all this, no wonder Korvac survived LT's punishment,

Death who is the master of mortality and immortality, she did not allow Korvac to die along with the earth, because Death wanted to kill Eternity

and Death knew it could get Korvac to retrieve the Ultimate Nullifier to destroy Eternity, this was Death's plan all along.

Apparently even Death was unable to help Korvac withstand the UN though.
The UN doesn't just kill, it nullifies.

The one thing I don't get is that how can Death possibly overrule the LT's judgement? If the LT says "you must be destroyed", and Death says "that's ok", does the LT just submit to that? Doesn't make any sense. NO abstract should be able to overturn the will of the LT, not even Death or Oblivion.

Originally posted by celestialdemon
The one thing I don't get is that how can Death possibly overrule the LT's judgement? If the LT says "you must be destroyed", and Death says "that's ok", does the LT just submit to that? Doesn't make any sense. NO abstract should be able to overturn the will of the LT, not even Death or Oblivion.

Had the Living Tribunal erased Korvac from existence as to never had existed...Death would not have been able to do anything about it...but Death has absolute control over any life-force that lingers in the Multiverse.

This is a good example.

Beyonder erases from existence(from ever being)a space armada that comprised of over 30,000 advanced civilizations.


Death and Mephisto will never savor those billions of souls...because due to the Beyonder they never even existed.

This is what I mean by lingering life-force.

Here Beyonder collects the essence of dead New Mutants...if you have the power, you can just pluck this energy from the air...and if your really powerful you can even recreate that energy into a living being.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Had the Living Tribunal erased Korvac from existence as to never had existed...Death would not have been able to do anything about it...but Death has absolute control over any life-force that lingers in the Multiverse.

This is a good example.

Beyonder erases from existence(from ever being)a space armada that comprised of over 30,000 advanced civilizations.


Death and Mephisto will never savor those billions of souls...because due to the Beyonder they never even existed.

This is what I mean by lingering life-force.

Here Beyonder collects the essence of dead New Mutants...if you have the power, you can just pluck this energy from the air...and if your really powerful you can even recreate that energy into a living being.

Then why didn't the LT just erase Korvac from existence after his "ultimate judgment" failed? Why go on to say that Korvac was beyond his judgment?

Originally posted by celestialdemon
Then why didn't the LT just erase Korvac from existence after his "ultimate judgment" failed? Why go on to say that Korvac was beyond his judgment?

That's a technical question.

I think the point of the writers was to have Death succeed in destroying Eternity.

If LT would have done that...then obviously Death would have lost...evidently that was not the writer's goal.

I could also say if Korvac was beyond LT's power why didn't he break the seal LT put around his Universe?

Originally posted by Mr Master
That's a technical question.

I think the point of the writers was to have Death succeed in destroying Eternity.

If LT would have done that...then obviously Death would have lost...evidently that was not the writer's goal.

I could also say if Korvac was beyond LT's power why didn't he break the seal LT put around his Universe?

Did Korvac try? I don't have the comic in question, so I don't know.

Originally posted by celestialdemon
Then why didn't the LT just erase Korvac from existence after his "ultimate judgment" failed?

That issue was made in 1982...let's not forget.

How can that be LT's 'ultimate judgement? A supernova.

When Gladiator contained an explosion that was a near super nova blast.
So Gadiator can take on LT now?

When LT and Warlock faced off at the end of the Infinity Watch issue, they both knew that LT would have had to destroy that Universe in order to wrestle the IG from Warlock.

It takes ALOT more than a "super nova" to obliterate a Universe.

Now you know LT can do ALOT more than just throw "supernovas" around.

Originally posted by celestialdemon
Why go on to say that Korvac was beyond his judgment?

It's a What if.

Maybe I should point out how stupid that specific issue was..not to be blamed since it's a What if.

Korvac with ALL his power, can't read a Celestial mind,

Korvac CANNOT resurrect just anyone, only someone he kills. Yet he's "omnipotent", LOL.

Korvac fears an Armada of beings that are coming to battle him from all over this universe, but he can kill and absorb some of the most powerful beings in the universe. This is crap, with all his power he should be able to wipe this army out of existence.

Korvac absorbs every being on this earth to battle this armada. He becomes so powerful he can sit on planet earth, like if it's a workout ball, but he's still going to rely on the Ultimate Nullifier to destroy this armada along with the universe.

Watcher breaks through Korvac's barrier like nothing, and this is after he absorbed every being on earth, even the visiting Celestials.

Korvac needs Ultimate Nullifier to destroy armada, nonsense, but it's a What If, so why complain.

Originally posted by celestialdemon
Did Korvac try? I don't have the comic in question, so I don't know.

He was trapped in that Universe in the absolute sense.

Towards the end watcher told him to flee to other side of the universe so that he would not have to kill Eternity...but he refused...what he wanted was to dominate Eternity but he couldn't.

Originally posted by Mr Master
That issue was made in 1982...let's not forget.

How can that be LT's 'ultimate judgement? A supernova.

When Gladiator contained an explosion that was a near super nova blast.
So Gadiator can take on LT now?

When LT and Warlock faced off at the end of the Infinity Watch issue, they both knew that LT would have had to destroy that Universe in order to wrestle the IG from Warlock.

It takes ALOT more than a "super nova" to obliterate a Universe.

Now you know LT can do ALOT more than just throw "supernovas" around.

It's a What if.

Maybe I should point out how stupid that specific issue was..not to be blamed since it's a What if.

Korvac with ALL his power, can't read a Celestial mind,

Korvac CANNOT resurrect just anyone, only someone he kills. Yet he's "omnipotent", LOL.

Korvac fears an Armada of beings that are coming to battle him from all over this universe, but he can kill and absorb some of the most powerful beings in the universe. This is crap, with all his power he should be able to wipe this army out of existence.

Korvac absorbs every being on this earth to battle this armada. He becomes so powerful he can sit on planet earth, like if it's a workout ball, but he's still going to rely on the Ultimate Nullifier to destroy this armada along with the universe.

Watcher breaks through Korvac's barrier like nothing, and this is after he absorbed every being on earth, even the visiting Celestials.

Korvac needs Ultimate Nullifier to destroy armada, nonsense, but it's a What If, so why complain.

You're right. It is a What If which was absurd and nowhere near a good representation of the LT's current power. We both know that a supernova is nothing to the LT.

I just didn't understand your defense of the LT. Within the boundaries of that comic, the LT was not the ultimate force in the multiverse since Korvac with Death's backing was able to overrule the LT's judgment.

Now, in 616 today, this incident would never happen.

Originally posted by celestialdemon
You're right. It is a What If which was absurd and nowhere near a good representation of the LT's current power. We both know that a supernova is nothing to the LT.

I just didn't understand your defense of the LT. Within the boundaries of that comic, the LT was not the ultimate force in the multiverse since Korvac with Death's backing was able to overrule the LT's judgment.

Now, in 616 today, this incident would never happen.

True.

My defense of LT was just to show mider that Korvac on his own did not avoid LT's judgement...Death was the culprit.

Originally posted by Mr Master
He was trapped in that Universe in the absolute sense.

But that's not what I asked. I asked if he even tried to break out of the universe. Do you have any scans that show him trying or even not trying?

Originally posted by Mr Master
True.

My defense of LT was just to show mider that Korvac on his own did not avoid LT's judgement...Death was the culprit.

This I do agree with. I do believe Death did aid Korvac without his knowledge.

Originally posted by celestialdemon
But that's not what I asked. I asked if he even tried to break out of the universe. Do you have any scans that show him trying or even not trying?

He never made an attempt to get out...but I believe he knew he couldn't get out.

He was madly in love with his woman during that entire issue...in fact he wanted to make the universe perfect for her and him to share.

Why would he destroy everything including the woman he loved with all his heart if he had a way out?

This is the indication that's given that he was trapped in there in the absolute sense, you didn't ask that but I'm trying to answer your question.

Watcher tells him to flee to the other side of the universe, settle there and do your thing...but he refused.

There was no escape from the armada that was coming to kill him...I'm sure if he would have left that Universe he could of...atleast for the sake of the woman he was madly in love with...but apparently he was not able to.

Originally posted by Mr Master
He never made an attempt to get out...but I believe he knew he couldn't get out.

He was madly in love with his woman during that entire issue...in fact he wanted to make the universe perfect for her and him to share.

Why would he destroy everything including the woman he loved with all his heart if he had a way out?

This is the indication that's given that he was trapped in there in the absolute sense, you didn't ask that but I'm trying to answer your question.

Watcher tells him to flee to the other side of the universe, settle there and do your thing...but he refused.

There was no escape from the armada that was coming to kill him...I'm sure if he would have left that Universe he could of...atleast for the sake of the woman he was madly in love with...but apparently he was not able to.

That's cool, and I appreciate the explanation. Although we've had our differences, I respect you as a fellow poster. Peace out.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Obviously TOAA is the top power at Marvel, and so far no one is above that being, other than possibly Classic Beyonder.

Now, explain to me how could be Classic Beyonder above it, no matter how powerful he was, he existed because of someone, he existed because of TOAA. Nothing can top TOAA, because they all exist because of him.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
True...not even IG or LT.

LT was shown to be nothing to HOTU.

And I can't get rid out of my head the image where Eternity showed LT kneeling before Phoenix.

lucifer beats EVERYONE on that list other than TGEB and maybe micheal if micheal plays it as smart as lucifer and it ends in a tie every1 else will fall.

Originally posted by Xplosive
And I can't get rid out of my head the image where Eternity showed LT kneeling before Phoenix.

That's not the Phoenix. Look carefully and read the text. It's the Stranger in that depiction. Eternity was explaining the universe and Stranger's plan to control human's evolution to end the universe and become the new survivor of a new universe and it's new abstracts.

Problem with Stranger's plan is that the abstracts had designed this. The difference is merely timing. Stranger wants to do it on his own time table.

These are the last panels of X-Men Forever six. Stranger's plan did not involve Phoenix. His vanguards were part of his plan: not merely Jean.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
That's not the Phoenix. Look carefully and read the text. It's the Stranger in that depiction. Eternity was explaining the universe and Stranger's plan to control human's evolution to end the universe and become the new survivor of a new universe and it's new abstracts.

Problem with Stranger's plan is that the abstracts had designed this. The difference is merely timing. Stranger wants to do it on his own time table.

These are the last panels of X-Men Forever six. Stranger's plan did not involve Phoenix. His vanguards were part of his plan: not merely Jean.

He wants to do it with power of the Phoenix.

And actully, it is kneeling before the Phoenix as you can clearly see it on the scan.