heres another one. dont know how good it is though...
an abstract is someone that helps keep the universe in order. they do there part to make sure things happen and things dont happen.
like dath controls the death.
eternity is the universe.
LT is the supreme judge.
all of the abstracts together keep the universe running smooth.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Can you tell me what your definition of multiversal power is? What does it entail?
There are different levels of Multi-veral power.
Top-level:
To be able to create or remake or destroy the multi-verse.(eg. the ultimate nullifier)
Mid-level:
Able to create or remake or destroy, multiple(more than one)universes simultaneously.(eg. Magus merging two universes)
Low-level:
To exercise power across the multi-verse.(eg. Abraxas killing Reeds in all realities)
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Can you tell me what event occurs to initiate a universes life cycle?
A Big Bang.
I know where your going with this...I always said Phoenix was the "SPARK" that IGNITES the Big Bang but she is NOT the Big Bang itself..
This is what you said last time:
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The Phoenix Force is marked out as the Big Bang which initiates realities:
Ultimate:
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/75...0.jpg&s=x11
I responded:
She says about the Phoenix that it "changed Worlds at a whim"....ok...
manipulating Reality on a Global scale...nice.
"Phoenix "MAY"(expressing possibility)well have been the SPARK that brought about life to the universe"
Already I can't take her word seriously...she's not even sure...but let's give her the benefit of the doubt.
And what does that mean "THE SPARK" anyway?
Now....this is YOUR scan.
Spark: definition from webster's dictionary:
[ trans. ] ignite : the explosion sparked a fire.
So Phoenix is NOT the Big Bang!
She is the Spark that IGNITES the Big Bang.
You used this scan to strengthen your point...but it gave me more firepower.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
X-men The End:
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=7/18...82.jpg&s=f5
"The SPARK that brought the cosmos into being"
As of yet with YOUR scans, Phoenix is NOT the Big Bang...but THE SPARK that ignites the Big Bang...
If she was the Big Bang, how would you answer this:
Question, when Reed Richards did this...(yes the same guy in your scan saying PF is the Big Bang)
Harnessed this Big Bang from a Universe, was that the Phoenix Force?
And if so...how can this Phoenix Force be so powerful and yet be so easily EXPLOITED by a mere Human Being like Reed or Feron?
And if it is NOT the Phoenix Force, where did that Big Bang come from?
And if it is NOT the Phoenix Force, why is she important if there are OTHER Big Bangs taking place without her?
And don't tell me she's only the Big Bang for the Multiverse cause then I have to do this:
Hey REED RICHARDS is there again and with another two witnesses, Dr Druid and Captain Universe(the essence of the universe)...
No mention of the Phoenix Force.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Can you tell me what your definition for Marvels abstract beings is?
Concepts that are essential to the balance and nature of the universe.
One of those natural events is a big bang...which is to end an old universe and begin a new one.
Phoenix's responsibility as an Abstract(for lack of a better term)is to ensure that a big bang is ignited, so that it can consume and rebuild everything that was in a universe.
This big bang is a natural process instigated by the Phoenix Force.
Originally posted by bigbran
heres another one. dont know how good it is though...
an abstract is someone that helps keep the universe in order. they do there part to make sure things happen and things dont happen.
like dath controls the death.
eternity is the universe.
LT is the supreme judge.
all of the abstracts together keep the universe running smooth.
Perfectly put.
Mr Master, this kind of response was exactly the kind i was trying to avoid. The time for essays is over 👇
We'll do this point for point. We'll address one question at a time and when that has been suitably debated we'll move on to the others. Ok? 🙂
First up, what is your definition of a multiversal power? :
Originally posted by Mr Master
There are different levels of Multi-veral power.Top-level:
To be able to create or remake or destroy the multi-verse.(eg. the ultimate nullifier)Mid-level:
Able to create or remake or destroy, multiple(more than one)universes simultaneously.(eg. Magus merging two universes)Low-level:
To exercise power across the multi-verse.(eg. Abraxas killing Reeds in all realities)
Lets get this straight, you have NOT proven that the Ultimate Nullifier remade and recreated the multiverse. You have posted scans open to interpretation an dthen posted your interpretation of said scans. Please do not go around arguing as if that point has been proven and the debate is over. You can say it is your opinion and why that it is so but dont mark it out as fact.
Your lower two levels of multiversal power are flawed in terms of logic. Your mid level description is the same as saying someone who can create, make or destroy multiple galaxies simultaneously equates to a universal power. ❌
As for your lower tier that is the same as saying that someone who can go ffrom planet to planet plundering civilisations equates to a universal power ❌
To be a multiversal power you have to be able to (from any one reality) apply your power across all the realities of the multiverse.
The M'kraan crystal for example is unique in the multiverse, it has no counterparts. Unleash its power in one reality and this wave spreads out eventually consuming all realities in one single sweep. Not multiple waves from multiple alternate reality crystals. Just one. The crystal is a multiversal power for example.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Mr Master, this kind of response was exactly the kind i was trying to avoid. The time for essays is over
You finally learned.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Lets get this straight, you have NOT proven that the Ultimate Nullifier remade and recreated the multiverse. You have posted scans open to interpretation an dthen posted your interpretation of said scans.
Sorry charlie..
They are only open to interpretations to you...everyone sees it the way Marvel sees it.
But here it is in PLAIN english.
Heck, Nebula diguised as Susan Richards felt she could "Rule the Omniverse" with the Ultimate Nullifier:
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Your mid level description is the same as saying someone who can create, make or destroy multiple galaxies simultaneously equates to a universal power.
No, I would consider that a mid-level universal power.
Top level being able to destroy the universe itself.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
As for your lower tier that is the same as saying that someone who can go ffrom planet to planet plundering civilisations equates to a universal power
How you came up with that logic from my "lower tier" confuses me.
Abraxas was killing EVERY Reed Richards in the Multiverse SIMULTANEOUSLY.
NOT one by one....but nice try.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
To be a multiversal power you have to be able to (from any one reality) apply your power across all the realities of the multiverse.
That's a lower level Multi-versal power.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The M'kraan crystal for example is unique in the multiverse, it has no counterparts. Unleash its power in one reality and this wave spreads out eventually consuming all realities in one single sweep. Not multiple waves from multiple alternate reality crystals. Just one. The crystal is a multiversal power for example.
Actually your exaggerating again and making the Crystal more than it is.
It's more of a "chain reaction effect" just like the Chaos Wave...only NOT as destructive as the Chaos Wave..
In Jean's vision of what COULD happen...it begins with Stars and Planets being pulled from their orbits
"Many Worlds and Many lives will be snuffed out in the twinkling of an eye"
Not exactly the Universe let alone the Multiverse.
"Solar Systems, Clusters, Galaxies, Mega-Galaxies...all plunge helplessly down the gravity well of the Neutron Galaxy"
Not exactly a Universe let alone the Multiverse.
THEN...their mass adding to it's gravity, gravity attracting more mass...UNTIL reality itself BEGINS to tear apart.
It will go from Solar Systems to Mega-Galaxies before reality BEGINS to tear.
And yet the bottom line is...that it will only INVOLVE a Single Universe.
"An explosion that scatters stellar mass out across a NEW Virgin Universe"
Exactly A UNIVERSE...but NOT a Multiverse.
Originally posted by Mr Master
You finally learned.Sorry charlie..
They are only open to interpretations to you...everyone sees it the way Marvel sees it.
But here it is in PLAIN english.
Heck, Nebula diguised as Susan Richards felt she could "Rule the Omniverse" with the Ultimate Nullifier:No, I would consider that a mid-level universal power.
Top level being able to destroy the universe itself.
How you came up with that logic from my "lower tier" confuses me.
Abraxas was killing EVERY Reed Richards in the Multiverse SIMULTANEOUSLY.
NOT one by one....but nice try.
That's a lower level Multi-versal power.
Actually your exaggerating again and making the Crystal more than it is.
It's more of a "chain reaction effect" just like the Chaos Wave...only NOT as destructive as the Chaos Wave..
In Jean's vision of what COULD happen...it begins with Stars and Planets being pulled from their orbits
"Many Worlds and Many lives will be snuffed out in the twinkling of an eye"
Not exactly the Universe let alone the Multiverse."Solar Systems, Clusters, Galaxies, Mega-Galaxies...all plunge helplessly down the gravity well of the Neutron Galaxy"
Not exactly a Universe let alone the Multiverse.THEN...their mass adding to it's gravity, gravity attracting more mass...UNTIL reality itself BEGINS to tear apart.
It will go from Solar Systems to Mega-Galaxies before reality BEGINS to tear.And yet the bottom line is...that it will only INVOLVE a Single Universe.
"An explosion that scatters stellar mass out across a NEW Virgin Universe"
Exactly A UNIVERSE...but NOT a Multiverse.
I think you pretty much showed UN to be Multiversal power.
But I think GS thought that you haven't proved that UN to be Multiversal power, because it was only words form Richards. He did say it, but it wasn't done, so it's not proven, I think GS thought that.
Originally posted by Mr Master
You finally learned.
Yes that your brain can’t process information in any form other than the simplest of breakdowns. Said disability necessitated a change in approach on my part.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Sorry charlie..They are only open to interpretations to you...everyone sees it the way Marvel sees it.
Nope. The way Marvel sees it is this:
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/7719433191.jpg&s=x11
“UNIVERSE”
Originally posted by Mr Master
But here it is in PLAIN english.
When the word of a non omniscient becomes canon fact then we’ll talk. Until then, Reeds word is merely his opinion, an opinion which has not been shown to be the case through demonstration or reputable authority anywhere on panel. The Ultimate Nullifier in all other cases where it has been actually used or referred to by Galactus, has always been in terms of the universal. There’s no precedence for a multiversal Nullifier therefore Reeds word is insufficient.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Heck, Nebula diguised as Susan Richards felt she could "Rule the Omniverse" with the Ultimate Nullifier:
Heck, Nebulas an even less reliable source, being neither a cosmic authority or even remarkably intelligent. Just character opinion. Again insufficient.
Heres what Galactus believes of his Ultimate Nullifier:
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=main/7/20810241549.jpg&s=f10
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=main/7/20810355296.jpg&s=f10
So not only did Galactus believe that he and his worldship could contain the power of the Ultimate Nullifier, but he actually did so on panel, proving both his claim and mine. Not only that but it was the full, unfettered power of the Nullifier as the devices safeguards had come away due to Morgs use of the device. (For a summary of the relevant issues check here: http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix2/tyrantgalactus.htm )
So outside of claims from characters who are not exactly reliable sources for the matter at hand there are no demonstrations, no on panel references pertaining to the Nullifier being anything but universal.
Eternity is a timeline. Reed and the like all stem from said timeline. If Eternity Is rebooted to a certain point (as he was in the F4 arc we’re debating) then any and all events that occurred after said point would be undone. What happened across the multiverse was all brought about by events/beings stemming from 616. If Eternity is reset before that point (as per the handbooks “ Reed nullified the universe itself. The universe restored itself to its previous normality.”) then other realities would never have been affected.
See my point? Regardless, you have no conclusive evidence to back up your point, whereas I have the precedence provided by the Ultimate Nullifiers previous showings and comments from Galactus himself, the authority on the device.
Originally posted by Mr Master
How you came up with that logic from my "lower tier" confuses me.Abraxas was killing EVERY Reed Richards in the Multiverse SIMULTANEOUSLY.
I wasnt previously aware that Abraxas killed them simultaneously, however something has just dawned on me when thinking about the multiversal vs universal issue. A thought that may necessitate a re-labelling of even one of my beloveds feats 😉. When you think about it, applying your power across an unspecified amount of dimensions to kill a number of mortals across the multiverse should be achievable by a universal level power. The realities in which their power was being applied weren’t affected as a whole, just negligible aspects (The alternate Reed Richards) within said realities. Therefore theres no reason why a major universal power, a power who can dominate a whole reality, cannot spread this power to affect multiple realities on a smaller scale.
Originally posted by GalacticStormyou might be right, if...
I wasnt previously aware that Abraxas killed them simultaneously, however something has just dawned on me when thinking about the multiversal vs universal issue. A thought that may necessitate a re-labelling of even one of my beloveds feats 😉. When you think about it, applying your power across an unspecified dimensions to kill a number of mortals across the multiverse should be achievable by a universal level power. The realities in which their power was being applied weren’t affected as a whole, just negligible aspects (The alternate Reed Richards) within said realities. Therefore theres no reason why a major universal power, a power who can dominate a whole reality, cannot spread this power to affect multiple realities on a smaller scale.
abraxus didnt already affect the whole multiverse, and kill off a bunch of galactus's.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Exactly A UNIVERSE...but NOT a Multiverse.
Your point is irrelevant in light of the fact that the crystal was much later upgraded to multiversal status, therefore referring to scans from the crystals debut appearance and using them as evidence for the crystal being universal in current continuity is a useless exercise. ✅
A waste of time basically. 🙁
When the crystals energies are released in one universe, a doorway is left open and this draft eventually reaches through and affects other realities one by one collapsing them in one single sweeping wave. Just to repeat myself (as i was correct from the beginning 😄 ) There is one crystal, one wave of power that eventually sweep across all realities, collapsing the entire multiverse. There are not multiple crystals, in alternate realities, releasing multiple waves of energies each one collapsing their respective universes. Theres just one. Multiversal? ✅
Originally posted by GalacticStormbecause he wanted to see to kill them seperately.
Plus the difference between the Reed killings and the Galactus ones, is that Abraxas didnt kill the Galactuses simultaneously from one reality. He went around to each reality taking them out. With that in mind your point is invalid.
Originally posted by Cubicks
Where is the proof to the contrary?
Doesnt work like that son, if that was the case then ridiculous claims could be made about anyone with the perpetrator simply stating prove me wrong. We could say Storm could really beat Galactus if she wanted to but she doesnt wanna mess up her new costume , or Wolverine could really take out Hulk but he feels sorry for the guy because he gets a hard time from the media and the army as it is. 🤨
We go by what characters have been shown to be able to do, on panel, not character claims or what we would like to imagine they could do if they felt like it 🙄
Originally posted by bigbran
or we could say phoenix could take out eternity....
Which given the fact that Phoenix has on panel casually caused fatal wounds to the 616 universe (by amputating its future) before manipulating it atom by atom in its entirety in the palm of her hand as if it were nothing, then that point stands to reason. Sorry mate. 🙂
