Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Since it's stated that 616 became an orphan universe(Seperated from it's parents) shouldn't she have at least sewn it back first onto the "megasystems" then change the crucial point in history in to ignite a new future....? O_o
The multiverse is just a core universe and its divergent timelines. It was Jean amputating part of 616s timeline that severed 616 from the rest of the multiverse. Presumably by growing it a new future a link was reforged.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
BTW Was it Wanda that stopped her own Chaos Wave? Because that feat seems so similar to the reversing the 616 spillage into other universes.
The Chaos Wave wasnt something Wanda generated, it didnt derive from her directly. It was something her actions brought about. The Chaos Wave was stopped by the members of what is now New Excalibur sealing the dimensional tear in 616 that Roma said previously had unleashed the chaos wave on reality.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Come out from hiding i see now you think all the work has been done for you?
What's left to debate about?
You've made your point and I've made mine.
The onlookers decide now.
For the record I still see Phoenix as an Abstract, an essential force to the fundamentals of the universe.
All Abstracts play an important role in the development and continuum of a universe.
Phoenix's part is to spark the big bang into action.
The big bang takes over from there, it destroys the old universe and creates a new one in it's place.
The Force is the sustenance of the stars but not of all life.
That's how I've come to understand it after all this...
No need to try and change my view as I will no longer try and change yours.
btw I found several links where the Ultimat Nullifier was acknowledged as having REMADE the Multi-verse during the Abraxas arc.
In the Galactus bio: at marveldatabase
http://www.marveldatabase.com/wiki/index.php/Galactus
(Right above CHARACTERISTICS)
Galactus easily wrenched the Nullifer from Abraxas, giving it to Mister Fantastic, who used the weapon to destroy the multiverse. The result served to re-create the multiverse in which Abraxas never existed, and since all that was had ended, all that is was realigned.
In Abraxas bio: at marveldatabase
http://www.marveldatabase.com/wiki/index.php/Abraxas
(last sentence in his ORIGIN)
Galactus was eventually reconstituted by Franklin Richards who completely burned out his powers in the process. Reed Richards then used the Ultimate Nullifer to destroy the multiverse, and remake one in which Abraxas never existed.
In Galactus bio at wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galactus
(last sentence in TEMPORARY DEATH)
Galactus easily reclaimed the Ultimate Nullifier from Abraxas and Reed Richards used it to remake the multiverse into one in which Abraxas never escaped.
Just shownig you that others saw it the way we all did.
poor little gs. whose sole purpose in this world seems to be to come running{assuming he actually HAS a life outside kmc} n post pages upon pages of he same countered unproven crap about phoenix {n perhaps feal a lil happy by telling no1 but himself how logically he has beaten the entire opposition} which most people dont believe anymore. his entire existance is confined inside a single subsite topic which people are too sickof him to even try n debate logically. wonder if hell be on kmc in his deathbed, ofcourse not having had time to reproduce he doesnt have any woman or children or responsibilities{heck i bet he sits on the toilet seet infront of his pc so he doesnt have to get up} ofcourse on this site n this site alone hell laugh off whatever ive said and take it as further proof of no1 being able to compare with his UNIVERSAL greatness which only he seas after which hell simply dismiss everythin with an illogical silluy little message topped with smileys in an attmpt to make it look smarter and more attractive than its poster. poor, poor GS..............................
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The feat was the binding of the energies contained within the M'kraan crystal. Jean had no power given to her to accomplish this feat, she was not aided in anyway when it came to performing the actual feat. Jean did however use the souls of the X-men to bind herself to the physical plane so that she could go about performing the feat. The crux of the matter is that the feat itself, the binding of the multiversal power of the crystal was achieved by Jean and Jean alone. Your point is redundant.
More bullcrap I see my kiddie. Without the X-Men or anyone around, she couldn't have done it.
Well if thats the case your previous comments:" By the way who stopped the Phoenix from repairing the M'Krann? Oh that's right, LEGION killing Xavier"
were utter garbage with no relevance to this thread whatsoever.
Utter garbage is your deluded belief that Phoenix is even comparable the IG. Utter garbage is Phoenix doing anything to Lucifer when she couldn't even handle Magneto. Phoenix is powerful yet what stops her? Oh that's right! No host. So powerful yet, Ultra Force and the X-Men drove her into a portal.
Originally posted by GalacticStormThe fact that you can admit you spoke utter shit shows youre taking those first steps towards becoming a man. Good boy.
😱
Pissed child? Poor little G.S. getting picked apart. I atleast acknowledged it rather than rant on delusionally in circles like a certain fanboy. YOU? To quote xmarksthespot: firefirefireph
Crap is what you've been claiming throughout this board:
- OMG everyone Moleculeman needed Surfer's help to powerful a task. But let's excuse a certain fiery bird.
- OMG, Lucifer surving the demiurgic blast isn't a big deal, the abstracts surivived that according to Prosh.
- OMG, Prosh comments relating the abstracts surviving through the Big Bang contradicts other sources.
- OMG, the Living Tribunal isn't that powerful he couldn't even stop Korvac in a What If.
- OMG, Pre-Retcon Beyonder destroying the multiverse and death is that power comparable to Jean's feat of manipulating atoms.
Same thread, 10 pages back.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=408998&perpage=20&highlight=Lucifer&pagenumber=10
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Lucifer survived a universal level explosion. Big wow. Even the abstracts can survive the destruction of a universe as stated on panel:That in and of itself really doesnt help your case in the slightest.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
As for Proshs comments relating to the abstracts surviving through a Big Bang well that’s at odds with all other sources regarding the destruction of the universe. Also in Eternitys bio you will see it stated that he came into being after the universe was born:
disguise2
WOW. Look Jean performed some atom manipulatition WOAH! I don't know what she did but she did something that had to do with the universe. Oh my goodness: HIGHEST FEAT EVER IN COMICS!!!! HIGHEST FEAT EVER!!! Phoenix iz da bezt. 🙄
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Anyone who has read New X-men will have seen the avatars talk of how they watch over the multiverse and how the fixing of broken universes is Phoenix work. The point is actually stated on panel. You have been fooled. Think for yourself dont follow others blindly.
shit
Fixing universeS is Phoenix's work?
AvatarS TALK OF HOW THEY WATCH OVER the MULTIVERSE?
Through full of it and most on this board knows it. [smile]firefirefireph[/smile] But it's also a fact that your too thick headed to admit when your wrong.
😱 SHHHH.
Surely Lucifer will lose to this! 😈
firefirefireph
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Well you had no choice but to because I was right.
What hell are you talking about? Did I ever argue against that page? It isn't about choice, that's what I'm reading. Why argue when there's nothing to argue about? You're more of an deluded oddball than I thought before.
Now here’s where we disagree and the accuracy of your posts inevitably falls by the wayside.The task had been marked out already; the task was highlighted by the Consciousness before it went about telling her how to go about performing said task. It told her that telekinetic control of all of those atoms wasn’t as easy a task as it sounds in training, even for the White Crown Phoenix. After saying that we saw over three panels Jean go from having nothing in her hand, to having disparate globules of energy, to having what we are told is the “badly wounded orphaned universe”. Whatever manipulation was performed by the Phoenix on this universe, it was performed at the atomic level, within the palm of her hand. All we know is that it was performed in an effort to fulfil the aforementioned task and that’s all we need to know.
And what was that matter manipulation about? You don't even know. Your guesses are just that, guess work. Think about it. In that page, she manipulate the universe but doesn't know it's the universe? She doesn't even know what it is.
Your attempt at a rebuttal (i.e. Jean doesn’t seem to know what’s going on therefore she couldn’t have started to fix anything) stems from insufficient knowledge regarding the Phoenix and the story arcs you’re debating over. In New X-men it was earlier established and depicted that the Phoenix Consciousness resides within Jean Greys psyche, sometimes taking control of her actions and speaking for her:New X-men 128
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=main/8/21214270711.jpg&s=f10
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=main/8/21214281772.jpg&s=f10
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=main/8/21214295561.jpg&s=f10
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=main/8/21214311612.jpg&s=f10
New X-men 139
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=main/8/21214481949.jpg&s=f10
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=main/8/21214500726.jpg&s=f10
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=main/8/21214505118.jpg&s=f10
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=main/8/21214514952.jpg&s=f10
Jean later clarified by talking of what she knew about her relationship with the power:
New X-men 148:
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=main/8/21212434064.jpg&s=f10
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=main/8/21212452266.jpg&s=f10
Jean says that the Consciousness talks to her and if she gets too wrapped up in the power that the Consciousness takes over. This, all readers of the title you’re debating over are well aware of. When Jean draws on too much power when she takes on things beyond the limits of the human psyche then the Consciousness takes control and the Jean Grey persona takes a backseat.
In the Here Comes Tomorrow scans we saw Jean conversing with the Consciousness, we saw it telling her what needs to be done to save her native reality, we saw the Consciousness talk of how the manipulation of all of those atoms wasn’t as easy as it sounds in training even for someone as powerful as Jean and yet the task was performed regardless in the palm of her hand with Jean asking the Consciousness about what’s going on. The Consciousness then told Jean that she needs to sever her ties with 616 and movie on, hence the “water it with your hearts blood”, “Live Scott, Live” comments and Jeans alteration of Scott’s reactions, resulting in him choosing a life with Emma Frost, thereby creating a new timeline to replace the one she had cut away. 😄
Let me get this straight. You don't have jack on why the atoms were manipulated and you try to point out that voice being the Phoenix Conciousness and therefore Phoenix is caparable to Lucifer, beating him no less? Last review since I know you'll forget, you don't know why atoms were being controlled but it's safe to say she did it easily, despite the it being said wasn't going to be easy and it's not clear that she did it in that page your refering too. Your just full of hot air G.S.
SHHH... Come back when you have something concrete. Away with you now.
Truly Lucifer would lose to this. Truly...SHHH 😱
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
[B]The multiverse is just a core universe and its divergent timelines. It was Jean amputating part of 616s timeline that severed 616 from the rest of the multiverse. Presumably by growing it a new future a link was reforged.
The multiverse is just a core universe and it's divergent timelines? Where this come from? 😕
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The multiverse is just a core universe and its divergent timelines. It was Jean amputating part of 616s timeline that severed 616 from the rest of the multiverse. Presumably by growing it a new future a link was reforged.
Wait you know when I think about it you're right she doesn't need to sew it back on...
She amputated the universe with her powers...and as WWK pointed out Jean only ever did something after she realized that she has to fix an event in history. So say all she did was change Scotts mind with her telepathy...then a new future would have been born...meaning she wouldn't have amputated the universe because that future would have never occured in the first place and therefore 616 would have been safe.
Originally posted by Mr Master
What's left to debate about?You've made your point and I've made mine.
The onlookers decide now.
For the record I still see Phoenix as an Abstract, an essential force to the fundamentals of the universe.
All Abstracts play an important role in the development and continuum of a universe.
Phoenix's part is to spark the big bang into action.
The big bang takes over from there, it destroys the old universe and creates a new one in it's place.The Force is the sustenance of the stars but not of all life.
That's how I've come to understand it after all this...
No need to try and change my view as I will no longer try and change yours.btw I found several links where the Ultimat Nullifier was acknowledged as having REMADE the Multi-verse during the Abraxas arc.
In the Galactus bio: at marveldatabase
http://www.marveldatabase.com/wiki/index.php/Galactus
(Right above CHARACTERISTICS)
Galactus easily wrenched the Nullifer from Abraxas, giving it to Mister Fantastic, who used the weapon to destroy the multiverse. The result served to re-create the multiverse in which Abraxas never existed, and since all that was had ended, all that is was realigned.In Abraxas bio: at marveldatabase
http://www.marveldatabase.com/wiki/index.php/Abraxas
(last sentence in his ORIGIN)
Galactus was eventually reconstituted by Franklin Richards who completely burned out his powers in the process. Reed Richards then used the Ultimate Nullifer to destroy the multiverse, and remake one in which Abraxas never existed.In Galactus bio at wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galactus
(last sentence in TEMPORARY DEATH)
Galactus easily reclaimed the Ultimate Nullifier from Abraxas and Reed Richards used it to remake the multiverse into one in which Abraxas never escaped.Just shownig you that others saw it the way we all did.
So basically you, just like WWK have nothing to counter what i said with regards to the M'kraan crystal, so your stance is basically even though i cant prove you wrong or myself right with proof, i think im right and some fansites ive found think im right, therefore im not going to listen to you anymore 🤨 😆
We’re talking about the M’kraan crystal here, so unless you have evidence to prove your theories about it or any further comments to make regarding the crystal then please be man enough to concede on that point just like WWK had no choice but to:
Originally posted by WhiteWitchKingAdmittedly I'll take those comments regarding this part back.
When that’s all out of the way we’ll move on to the second issue which I believe was what event do you believe initiates a universes life cycle?
Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
More bullcrap I see my kiddie. Without the X-Men or anyone around, she couldn't have done it.
Again you have no counter therefore you dismiss and mock. Incredibly lame 👇
The feat was the binding of the crystals power. Before Phoenix performed the feat she bound herself to the physical plane using the souls of the X-men. Show me where its stated that Phoenixes energies were bolstered by an outside source. Show me where its stated an outside source actually possessed Phoenix and completed the task for her. Unless you can provide some evidence pertaining to Phoenix not being able to bind the crystal with her own energies then you really dont have a case. Good luck with that mate! 😄
Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Utter garbage is your deluded belief that Phoenix is even comparable the IG. Utter garbage is Phoenix doing anything to Lucifer when she couldn't even handle Magneto. Phoenix is powerful yet what stops her? Oh that's right! No host. So powerful yet, Ultra Force and the X-Men drove her into a portal.Pissed child? Poor little G.S. getting picked apart. I atleast acknowledged it rather than rant on delusionally in circles like a certain fanboy. YOU? To quote xmarksthespot: firefirefireph
Crap is what you've been claiming throughout this board:
- OMG everyone Moleculeman needed Surfer's help to powerful a task. But let's excuse a certain fiery bird.
- OMG, Lucifer surving the demiurgic blast isn't a big deal, the abstracts surivived that according to Prosh.
- OMG, Prosh comments relating the abstracts surviving through the Big Bang contradicts other sources.
- OMG, the Living Tribunal isn't that powerful he couldn't even stop Korvac in a What If.
- OMG, Pre-Retcon Beyonder destroying the multiverse and death is that power comparable to Jean's feat of manipulating atoms.Same thread, 10 pages back.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=408998&perpage=20&highlight=Lucifer&pagenumber=10disguise2
Addressing multiple issues and responding to empty insults in one reply gives the likes of yourselves the oppurtunity to both gloss over and/or avoid addressing relevant issues as you have been doing throughout. We're talking about both the crystal and Jeans "palm of the hand" feat here, if you would like to retain these points for a later dismissal by myself then be guest. Now is not the appropriate time. 🙂
Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
WOW. Look Jean performed some atom manipulatition WOAH! I don't know what she did but she did something that had to do with the universe. Oh my goodness: HIGHEST FEAT EVER IN COMICS!!!! HIGHEST FEAT EVER!!! Phoenix iz da bezt. 🙄
So when Galactus goes about absorbing the energies of a planet do you know the exact processes his machines go through in achieving this end or are we just told what the intended goal is and shown a brief artistic depiction of said task being carried out? 😕
Does the fact that we're not given a lesson in comic book science mean we should doubt such occurrences when the intended goal is marked out, the feat is depicted artistically, before the intended goal is realised on panel? ❌
Jean was told she needed to grow the universe a new future. She was shown over three panels with nothing in her hand, to having disparate energy globules, to having what we're told is a universe in her hand. All that occurring whilst the Consciousness tells her control of all of those atoms isnt as easy as it sounds in training. Jean demonstrated control of an entire universes atomic structure in the palm of her hand. While we dont know exactly what manipulation Jean/Phoenix performed, we know to what ends it was being performed to (i.e the growing of a new future for 616) therefore that is all we need to know.
Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
What hell are you talking about? Did I ever argue against that page? It isn't about choice, that's what I'm reading. Why argue when there's nothing to argue about? You're more of an deluded oddball than I thought before.
You presented your OPINION on the crystal as gospel truth, dismissing all other accounts despite having only based your "factual" account on one out of context scan. Arrogant? ✅ Naive? Most definitely 😮
When your fallacy was brought to light, you conceded as you should have done so let go of the unwarranted ego and lets leave it at that now k?
Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
And what was that matter manipulation about? You don't even know. Your guesses are just that, guess work. Think about it. In that page, she manipulate the universe but doesn't know it's the universe? She doesn't even know what it is.
Irrelevant point. We dont know need to know what manipulation she performed, we know the level she did it at (atomic) and the scale she did it at (universal) whilst it was in the palm of her hand giving us her feat. The integral point however is that we were told to what ends it was being performed to, i.e. the fixing of broken universe by growing it a new future. 😄
Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
WOW. Look Jean performed some atom manipulatition WOAH! I don't know what she did but she did something that had to do with the universe. Oh my goodness: HIGHEST FEAT EVER IN COMICS!!!! HIGHEST FEAT EVER!!! Phoenix iz da bezt. 🙄
So when Galactus goes about absorbing the energies of a planet do you know the exact processes his machines go through in achieving this end or are we just told what the intended goal is and shown a brief artistic depiction of said task being carried out? 😕
Does the fact that we're not given a lesson in comic book science mean we should doubt such occurrences when the intended goal is marked out, the feat is depicted artistically, before the intended goal is realised on panel? ❌
Jean was told she needed to grow the universe a new future. She was shown over three panels with nothing in her hand, to having disparate energy globules, to having what we're told is a universe in her hand. All that occurring whilst the Consciousness tells her control of all of those atoms isnt as easy as it sounds in training. Jean demonstrated control of an entire universes atomic structure in the palm of her hand. While we dont know exactly what manipulation Jean/Phoenix performed, we know to what ends it was being performed to (i.e the growing of a new future for 616) therefore that is all we need to know.
Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Let me get this straight. You don't have jack on why the atoms were manipulated and you try to point out that voice being the Phoenix Conciousness and therefore Phoenix is caparable to Lucifer, beating him no less? Last review since I know you'll forget, you don't know why atoms were being controlled but it's safe to say she did it easily, despite the it being said wasn't going to be easy and it's not clear that she did it in that page your refering too. Your just full of hot air G.S.
Handled previously. Dont need to know the process she went through, we were given the level and the scale of the manipulation and told what it was being performed to(a universe) giving us a feat of power plus we were told previously to what ends these actions were being performed and we were provided with a successful end result.
Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
SHHH... Come back when you have something concrete. Away with you now.
The irony (check an online dictionary) of this statement had me rolling on the floor. 😂
Unless you know the ins and out of a character youre attempting to debate about dont try and present your opinion on the matter as the infallible truth. You have not read the relevant material, your opinion is just based on a handful of scans so how very arrogant of you to present yourself as the enlightened one in the face of someone who has actually bothered to read up on the material hes debating. 👇
Originally posted by leonheartmm
not true. the extent of the beyonder's power was the ability to destroy the entire multiverse by destroying the entire space time continuem and he would also be destroyed in the process. these are the words of reed richards which the celestials knew were true. beyonder was slightly more powerful than the whole marvel multiverse but lucifer has megaversal power.
For every possible movement you do, thought you think, words you speak you do it in one of the dimention, it splitts into a delta with an unlimited amount of ways, therefore the MU: Multi-verse is infinite.
We say that is finite because it is a part of the Omni-verse.
It´s like comparing the Living Tribunal´s infinite power, with the one above all´s infinite power, both are infinite but the other one is a higher level of infinite.
I heard somewhere that the Marvel was a mega-verse, but that´s just a plot. Marvel have an infinite amount of universes, if you mega-verse than you limit the amount greatly.
I thus belive that Beyonder (without any limmitations) could destroy the whole omni-verse -- as the writher´s saw it, Marvel mutli-verse was nothing to Beyonder.
