Luke's skill

Started by Escape817 pages
Escape81 Restricted
Originally posted by Darth Vious
He did, but, he didn't choke them, (which is a much more agressive technique) as Luke did. To be honest, by brushing them into the wall and preventing them from taking any action against him, Yoda was actually doing the guards a favor...

Not to be antagonistic - but I wonder if the same applies to Sith Lords. Yoda certainly walked in with the intent to murder Palpatine.

Darth Vious Restricted

Originally posted by Escape81
Not to be antagonistic - but I wonder if the same applies to Sith Lords. Yoda certainly walked in with the intent to murder Palpatine.

That's true. However, Yoda's actions were for the greater good of the citizens of the Republic/Empire, not his own personal promotion (He was not at all happy with Mace's statement that the Jedi would have to take control of the Senate) He might have looked at the situation of overthrowing Palpatine as 'not being able to make an omelette without breaking some eggs', and a case of doing what had to be done for the benefit of everyone else, not just simple revenge.

jollyjim311 Scruffy Nerf Herder

..And Luke did? He just subdued them. He didn't want to hack them into little pieces, I imagine, so he choked them out of consciousness. Anyway, let's get back on topic. Luke shows us much more impressive things than any of those average Jedi in the Geonisis arena.

Razielim KGB
Well, it seemed to work fine for him against Vader now didn't it?

Well yeah. My 3 year old cousin can beat me in a sword fight if I'd completely throw the fight and want to die for him.

In ESB his saberwork is excellent.

It's not. I recall Luke getting put on his ass in the first few instants and get his hand lopped off after Vader got serious.

Oh yeah, and compare the scene on Jabba's sail barge to what we see some of the PT Jedi doing in the Geonosis arena, Luke does much better.

No. Not even close. The Jedi on Geonosis were outnumbered tens of thousands to two hundred. Even then, some Jedi survive. Luke would have been killed on the sail barge if the blast hit his other hand. And he was only facing about a dozen people at most.

There's no way in hell he'd survive on Geonosis.

Darth Vious Restricted

Originally posted by jollyjim311
..And Luke did? He just subdued them. He didn't want to hack them into little pieces, I imagine, so he choked them out of consciousness.

He still could have done so less aggressively.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Anyway, let's get back on topic. Luke shows us much more impressive things than any of those average Jedi in the Geonisis arena.

Really? Care to list them? It's already been pointed out that Luke was nearly disarmed by one of Jabba's guards (would have been, had his hand been organic) and wielded his lightsaber as if it were a baseball bat with no refinement or technique. Zett Jukassa displayed more skills in his few moments on screen than Luke did in any of his fight scenes.

Lightsnake Senior Member

One day after ROTJ, Luke is able to butcher Ssi-Ruuk elites in massive numbers...in ROTJ, Luke fought Vader who fought back to the fullest of his abilities as an equal.

We've seen Luke do plenty and he's already become extremely powerrful.

Razielim KGB

Oh come on. Vader was emotionally conflicted the entire time and he wasn't even putting up a fight in the end. He was just backing away and ducking. I could have beaten him if he did that.

jollyjim311 Scruffy Nerf Herder
Originally posted by Darth Vious
Really? Care to list them?

See my first post.

Darth Vious Restricted

Originally posted by Lightsnake
One day after ROTJ, Luke is able to butcher Ssi-Ruuk elites in massive numbers...in ROTJ, Luke fought Vader who fought back to the fullest of his abilities as an equal.

We've seen Luke do plenty and he's already become extremely powerrful.


EU evidence is not as valid as the evidence of the movies. Luke increased in power a great deal in the EU plotlines (I wonder why) but in the movie of RotJ, his 'skills' (if you can even call them that) were severely limited, and no better than a Youngling.

Darth Vious Restricted

Originally posted by jollyjim311
See my first post.

Originally posted by jollyjim311

Luke is able to show his skills with the force in ROTJ when he effortlessly subdues two guards and when he performs a mind trick.
Luke shows us two great fights against Vader.
Luke takes out around 20ish mercenaries on Jabba's sail barge.
Vader comments that Lukes "Skills are complete" in ROTJ.

You mean how he aggressively chokes the guards... How very un-Jedi.
Such a great fight against Vader in ESB he got his hand cut off.
And as for the guards on Jabba's barge, it's already been pointed out that he would have been disarmed by one (and then killed by the others) if his saber hand had been organic.

Razielim KGB

Well, that's taking it too far. I easily say he could beat a youngling and maybe even most Padawans. The reason I say this is because Luke's force telekenisis control was pretty good at this point. He manages to lift C3PO with the force with no apparent strain. He even managed to move his X-Wing a bit.

Whie in Dark Rendezvous, a padawan with great potential, was unable to convincingly force push a single assault droid. He struggled to deal with 2 assault droids.... And these things suck.

Darth Vious Restricted

Originally posted by Razielim
Well, that's taking it too far. I easily say he could beat a youngling and maybe even most Padawans. The reason I say this is because Luke's force telekenisis control was pretty good at this point. He manages to lift C3PO with the force with no apparent strain. He even managed to move his X-Wing a bit.

Whie in Dark Rendezvous, a padawan with great potential, was unable to convincingly force push a single assault droid. He struggled to deal with 2 assault droids.... And these things suck.


When I said Youngling, I was meaning Zett Jukassa. I should have been more specific.

Lightsnake Senior Member

Oh, right...because Luke facing down and beating Darth Vader is such a paltry feat that any youngling could perform...wait, in the movies, Vader'd been hunting down and destroying the Jedi knights.

Ok, Mace Windu is a terrible lightsaber fighter. He couldn't fight in the movies at all so EU be damned.

jollyjim311 Scruffy Nerf Herder

Yeah, not to mention Kit, Agen, and Seasee, EU=over-rated and wrong because I said so, dunn-it, Vious?

Darth Vious Restricted

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Oh, right...because Luke facing down and beating Darth Vader is such a paltry feat that any youngling could perform...

Luke had the fact that Vader was emotionally conflicted in his favor, not to mention the fact Vader had artificial arms and legs, seriously restricted vision and was trapped in a mobile iron lung.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
wait, in the movies, Vader'd been hunting down and destroying the Jedi knights.

And when he did that in the movies, he did not have artificial arms and legs, seriously restricted visioin and was not trapped in a mobile iron lung nor emotional issues clouding his concentration.

Do you deny that Luke was nearly disarmed on Jabba's sail barge by a single non-Force Sensitive Human guard?
Since when has any other Jedi on screen been taken by a single non-Force sensitive Human guard?

Darth Vious Restricted

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Yeah, not to mention Kit, Agen, and Seasee,

What about them? How do they have any relevence?

Originally posted by jollyjim311
EU=over-rated and wrong because I said so, dunn-it, Vious?

EU = Over-rated and wrong regardless of what I say about it. Lucas does not consider EU as canon compared to the movies and novelizations and his only stipulations (as far as I know) are that Luke is always the more powerfull, and that main characters aren't killed. (Chewie being an exception, before he is mentioned)

Lightsnake Senior Member

ROTJ novelization makes it clear Vader was fighting to his best.

And when was Luke nearly disarmed by a human guard exactly? Oh that's right, he never came close to losing his grip. And hm, according to the EU given direct input by Lucas, yeah...Vader was hunting down and SLAUGHTERING Jedi in the suit.

Try again, this is fun

jollyjim311 Scruffy Nerf Herder

*Achoo
Read RODV

http://www.swcomics.com/Empire_Era_c.php?i=12&f=36&name=Purge
http://www.swcomics.com/Empire_Era_c.php?i=13&f=36&name=Purge
http://www.swcomics.com/Empire_Era_c.php?i=14&f=36&name=Purge
http://www.swcomics.com/Empire_Era_c.php?i=15&f=36&name=Purge
http://www.swcomics.com/Empire_Era_c.php?i=18&f=36&name=Purge
*Achoo

And Luke, with Vader holding back or not, did a helluva job against this Jedi-killing machine that was more powerful than this version.

Darth Vious Restricted

Originally posted by Lightsnake
ROTJ novelization makes it clear Vader was fighting to his best.

Novelization does not top the movie, and in the movie, Vader was clearly conflicted in his intentions.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
And when was Luke nearly disarmed by a human guard exactly?

When the guard shot him in his hand.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Oh that's right, he never came close to losing his grip.

Only because that hand was artificial. Had it been an organic hand, the lightsaber would have been shot from his grip. Answer the question rather than dodging it: when has any other Jedi been so taken by surprize by a non-Force Sensitive Human guard?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
And hm, according to the EU given direct input by Lucas, yeah...Vader was hunting down and SLAUGHTERING Jedi in the suit.

You said in the movies, not the EU, so try again...

Darth Vious Restricted

Originally posted by jollyjim311
*Achoo
Read RODV

http://www.swcomics.com/Empire_Era_c.php?i=12&f=36&name=Purge
http://www.swcomics.com/Empire_Era_c.php?i=13&f=36&name=Purge
http://www.swcomics.com/Empire_Era_c.php?i=14&f=36&name=Purge
http://www.swcomics.com/Empire_Era_c.php?i=15&f=36&name=Purge
http://www.swcomics.com/Empire_Era_c.php?i=18&f=36&name=Purge
*Achoo

And Luke, with Vader holding back or not, did a helluva job against this Jedi-killing machine that was more powerful than this version.


Since when does EU books top the movies for canon?

But just to keep in the spirit of things...
http://www.swcomics.com/Empire_Era_c.php?i=17&f=36&s=go&name=Purge
Vader is clear:
"I under-estimated you, my Masters. You have proven yourselves to be greater adversaries than I anticipated. I am at your mercy. I surrender"

Had Koffi not betrayed Bultar and the Jedi ideals, then that would have been the end of it.