Silver Surfer vs Doomsday

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
So are Thanos, Thor...etc.
SS can't use these types of attacks on them because they wouldn't work.
You stop time, you stop said movement and arrangement of atoms...
Time manipulation>>>matter manipulation. Every energy used against DD (including GL energy, and the Omega effect) have been null against him. Only Imperiex showed a threat. SS is nowhere near that level.

I agreed earlier about BFR. SS can't beat him any other way.

Originally posted by Skeets
He already hangs with heavy hitters believe it or not after amping via Power cosmic or just absorbing a star he'll be up there in strength.Maybe reaching Supes level is a little out of his reach but when you fly as fast as he does he sure as can do some damage.IMP surfer style...😖hifty:

Thousands of GOGS for over a hundred years couldn't do it.
SS can try and amp up all he wants. He'd be dead while trying to do it.

Hundreds of GOGS>>>>>>>>>>SS.

Originally posted by Accel
SS has manipulated time as well...

Show us. Don't bring that ridiculous scan of him falling through time as proof. I want a scan where SS can simply stop time on a whim.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Thousands of GOGS for over a hundred years couldn't do it.
SS can try and amp up all he wants. He'd be dead while trying to do it.

Hundreds of GOGS>>>>>>>>>>SS.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Show us. Don't bring that ridiculous scan of him falling through time as proof. I want a scan where SS can simply stop time on a whim.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Why?? Because of 1 silly scan of surfer falling through time?
Please, get serious.

SS has no real time control. Let's not get ridiculous at over hype SS into what he isn't.

I know you like SS, but Waverider would destroy him with the options I provided...and I'm not even a Waverider fan.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Thousands of GOGS for over a hundred years couldn't do it.
SS can try and amp up all he wants. He'd be dead while trying to do it.

Hundreds of GOGS>>>>>>>>>>SS.

Originally posted by Accel
Can any version of DD fly? 'Cause Surfer could just remain in the air until he amps himself enough to deal with DD physically.

Superman tried that...sure didn't help him.

Originally posted by Accel
What do you mean by "falling through time?" Time-traveling? 'Cause that's what I'm referring to...

In the way you are reffering, Flash can manipulate time as well. So can the Doc and McFly. These guys don't have a prayer of touching Waverider.

I want to see SS doing something like this "Freeze frame" or like what I showed above... SS stopping someone from de-aging from a chronal attack.

Here's a cool scan of Surfer creating an illusion of himself (courtesy of Kahn and leo), which he could easily fool DD with:
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/GalactusTheDevourer6-30a.jpg

Another one where he shrinks himself down to atom size (also courtesy of Kahn and leo), where DD would never be able to touch him:
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/GalactusTheDevourer2-19a.jpg

Originally posted by Skeets
And I'll say it again time has no meaning to Surfer.He's been able to see past,present,and future all at once.Timetravel at will just to dump someone in the future,evolve life etc.

Time has no meaning to many immortal characters. Doesn't mean they control time on a whim. Time travel and controlling time are 2 different things.

Originally posted by Skeets
how would he be dead trying to amp? the guy can fly to space absorb a few suns go full speed and knock DD a few times on his ass before DD can even blink.

So Surfer would need prep then? This is as ridiculous as saying DD develops the ability to fly lightspeed and they have a space battle where DD trumps him.

Both characters have these type of ridiculous abilities, but I wouldn't see them happening in a battle.

SS can win through BFR. He loses physically or using energy.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Superman tried that...sure didn't help him.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
In the way you are reffering, Flash can manipulate time as well. So can the Doc and McFly. These guys don't have a prayer of touching Waverider.

I want to see SS doing something like this "Freeze frame" or like what I showed above... SS stopping someone from de-aging from a chronal attack.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
So Surfer would need prep then? This is as ridiculous as saying DD develops the ability to fly lightspeed and they have a space battle where DD trumps him.

Both characters have these type of ridiculous abilities, but I wouldn't see them happening in a battle.

SS can win through BFR. He loses physically or using energy.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Time has no meaning to many immortal characters. Doesn't mean they control time on a whim. Time travel and controlling time are 2 different things.

So Surfer would need prep then? This is as ridiculous as saying DD develops the ability to fly lightspeed and they have a space battle where DD trumps him.

Both characters have these type of ridiculous abilities, but I wouldn't see them happening in a battle.

SS can win through BFR. He loses physically or using energy.

Now back to that Waverider guy who reminds me alot of some other character...😖hifty: that healing feat isn't that impressive really nothing Surfer can't do better yet he's done something more impressive.He's also manipulated time on a few occasions.Waverider's premier power is time control so ofcourse he manipulates it at will.Time control is just one of Surfer side abilities so it's not highlighted as much.

SS easily.

All he has to do is trap Doomsday in his board or bind Doomsday's lifeforce to a rock and send it to another dimension.

And as far as the 'Freeze Frame' goes, Surfer can attain a rate of speed where time seemingly stands still. Same effect from his vantage point but not the same tactic.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
So are Thanos, Thor...etc.
SS can't use these types of attacks on them because they wouldn't work.
You stop time, you stop said movement and arrangement of atoms...
Time manipulation>>>matter manipulation. Every energy used against DD (including GL energy, and the Omega effect) have been null against him. Only Imperiex showed a threat. SS is nowhere near that level.

I agreed earlier about BFR. SS can't beat him any other way.

If time manipulation is so powerful, why didn't Waverider use that on DD? Probably because it would've worked, and the story would've ended. As I've been learning more and more about Waverider, it would seem that his "nervous-system" attack was actually a poor choice on his part. But then, the writers had to have Waverider use what DD could defend himself against.

As for Omega beams and GL power beams: to what end where they being used for? Generally, they achieve macroscopic (eg, "brute force"😉 effects, not the fine, intimate matter manip Surfer could do. And even if Omega and GL beams can do that, they were not used to that effect on Doomsday (at least as far as I know).

btw, Accel, thanks for the BFR def.

Originally posted by Accel
Surfer just needs to stay in the air out of DD's reach to amp himself without interference. 😕

That would be his best chance. In this case, he should be able to do this
with about anyone. Thanos, or WM thor for example. Unfortunately, since is isn't a natural way for SS. I find it to be null. Sorry.

Originally posted by Skeets
We agree Surfer wins.

Now back to that Waverider guy who reminds me alot of some other character...😖hifty: that healing feat isn't that impressive really nothing Surfer can't do better yet he's done something more impressive.He's also manipulated time on a few occasions.Waverider's premier power is time control so ofcourse he manipulates it at will.Time control is just one of Surfer side abilities so it's not highlighted as much.

We agree he can get a win through battlefield removal. We also agree that DD would stomp him easily in any other way.

As for Waverider and SS, SS simply may be able to go through time with some effort, but he doesn't have mastery of time and space. There is no comparison. SS comes up far short.

Originally posted by Accel
Did Supes actually TRY to amp himself up to DD's level?

Why can't Flash or the others beat WR?

Supes had a motherbox amping him AND was with Waverider.
With a motherbox, Supes should have had all of SS options.
For why flash and other travelers can't beat him. Refer to the scan above.

Originally posted by illadelph12
And as far as the 'Freeze Frame' goes, Surfer can attain a rate of speed where time seemingly stands still. Same effect from his vantage point but not the same tactic.

If SS is frozen in time,he won't be attaining ANY speed. We both know this. The genuine article in this case (time control) trumps the illusion/imitation.

Originally posted by Mindship
If time manipulation is so powerful, why didn't Waverider use that on DD? Probably because it would've worked, and the story would've ended. As I've been learning more and more about Waverider, it would seem that his "nervous-system" attack was actually a poor choice on his part. But then, the writers had to have Waverider use what DD could defend himself against.

As for Omega beams and GL power beams: to what end where they being used for? Generally, they achieve macroscopic (eg, "brute force"😉 effects, not the fine, intimate matter manip Surfer could do. And even if Omega and GL beams can do that, they were not used to that effect on Doomsday (at least as far as I know).

btw, Accel, thanks for the BFR def.

Actually that is how they beat him. They dumped him off at the end of time. Entropy. Due to the fact that waverider could freeze time himself, they weren't killed....unfortunately not even DD can survive the end of everything if left there.

GL energy and Omega effect can be used for practically anything. Brute force has nothing to do with it.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
...unfortunately not even DD can survive the end of everything if left there.

...GL energy and Omega effect can be used for practically anything. Brute force has nothing to do with it.

Originally posted by Mindship
"Unfortunately"? Well, we can see who you're cheerin' for... 😉

"Unfortunately" Surfer would die there if trapped as well. 😛

Originally posted by Mindship
I know they can be used for anything...but how were they actually used against him? If you have scans of either Darkseid or GL trying to affect DD on the subatomic/pregenetic level/in a way comparable to how I've described using power cosmic, please post.

At some point, I'll dig out the book and if I find something specific for you. To manipulate matter, you first have to break it down. Breaking it down requires energy and moving of said particles.

If things like disintegration beams bounce off DD's skin (the biggest organ in the body) and can't break it down, and things like being caught in the middle of millions of atomic blasts simulataneously can't even affect his skin, eyes, internals, much less his dna (and we know how radiation can alter things) then the SS points are moot.

As shown, Waverider had the best idea in mind, and was taken out because of it. BFR won in the end.

BFR is Surfers best option.

So then, basically what you're saying is, by definition, so to speak, energy attacks just aren't the way to go against Doomsday. Kinda like, might as well decide to use everything but kryptonite/magic/red-sun radiation against Superman.

H'mm...

Okay, I'll go with that, provided this would be consistent with any energy attacks from anyone, SS level or lower (off-hand, I'm thinking Thor, Destroyer, Gladiator, etc etc).

BFR it is...for now 😉

Originally posted by Mindship
So then, basically what you're saying is, by definition, so to speak, energy attacks just aren't the way to go against Doomsday. Kinda like, might as well decide to use everything but kryptonite/magic/red-sun radiation against Superman.

H'mm...

Okay, I'll go with that, provided this would be consistent with any energy attacks from anyone, SS level or lower (off-hand, I'm thinking Thor, Destroyer, Gladiator, etc etc).

BFR it is...for now 😉

Doomsday is mostly immune to any type of energy, or will become immune to it near instantly, and heal any wound caused by it in a moments time.

Physically is the way to do it, but it's tough when Supes, arguably the toughest physical character in comics, typically gets a beat down from him.

Just reposting this pic, and the site that hosted the original is blocking out the image.

Originally posted by Mindship
So then, basically what you're saying is, by definition, so to speak, energy attacks just aren't the way to go against Doomsday. Kinda like, might as well decide to use everything but kryptonite/magic/red-sun radiation against Superman.

H'mm...

Okay, I'll go with that, provided this would be consistent with any energy attacks from anyone, SS level or lower (off-hand, I'm thinking Thor, Destroyer, Gladiator, etc etc).

BFR it is...for now 😉

😖mart: 👆

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Just reposting this pic, and the site that hosted the original is blocking out the image.

😖mart: 👆