Of course gay people should be able to be married. Who are we to tell someone they cannot be married? How dare we, as a society, frown on someone relationship just because we don't agree with it? Is it any of our business who sleeps with who, or who shares a house with who? Of course not. Gay people deserve to be treated as equally as straight people.
Although, if you ask me, straight people should be banned from marrying, as all they do is make a mockery out of marriage.
Originally posted by autumn dreams
Of course gay people should be able to be married. Who are we to tell someone they cannot be married? How dare we, as a society, frown on someone relationship just because we don't agree with it? Is it any of our business who sleeps with who, or who shares a house with who? Of course not. Gay people deserve to be treated as equally as straight people.Although, if you ask me, straight people should be banned from marrying, as all they do is make a mockery out of marriage.
Lol what a hypocrit you are.
Originally posted by Redwolf
Nope I don't support gay marriage.Quite frankly, as hard and as often as they try, Gays have yet to provide definitive proof that their sexual orientation is a natural occurence.
Has anyone provided definitive proof that it's not a natural occurrence? It's their sexual orientation, right? The way that they feel, the urges they have, the emotions they deal with, right? Are you saying that every gay person is putting on an act? And if so, may I ask why?
They have provided studies with partial evidence mixed with a lot of speculation, but no conclusive proof. Many people say well if they love someone why can't they get married? It's a slippery slope if you hold that view. There are people out there that "love" animals and are into beastiality. What if NAMBLA members want to marry an underaged child because they "love" them?
There's a line here, one that most people can see quite clearly and would never cross. You can't group the two; people can love people no matter their gender but when it comes to animals I think you'll find most of us would take a negative stance. It's not a viable argument, really. As for the underage child view, aren't we talking about two consenting adults here anyway?
They can already do anything a married couple can do by power of attorney. EVERYTHING. We don't care what they do in their private lives, but attaching a legal binding marriage to it would do a few things that to me would be negative.
1. They could legally adopt children. A child is best raised by a man and a woman. It teaches them how to deal with the opposite sexes. No matter how good you think you are at it, a man and a man cannot teach a child to be a well rounded individual. They will suffer because of it, much the same as single parent homes that are filling our jails. Don't we have enough problems without creating more?
2. It would open the door for other adults to choose what their definition of marriage is. Is it right for a man to marry 4 women? How about a man to marry his sister? His niece? 1st cousin? CHILDREN? Blurring the lines of "normal behavior" is what these folks are after for the most part in my view.
A child is best raised by a man and a woman in a world where people take your viewpoint, yes. But what about a world where people learn to have a more open-minded and accommodating view, which, in my opinion, would be more beneficial to the younger generations. Talk about putting a limit on learning and understanding. If I ever have children I hope they'll be comfortably introduced to the way the world works and the differences it supports. I won't allow my children to be ignorant through choice.
I don't care what an individual does in their own bedroom but KEEP IT OUT OF MY FACE. You don't have the right to demand recognition for your CHOICE in life. You CHOOSE to live a deviant lifestyle, so stop demanding we all see it as "normal". It's NOT. I'm sick to death of every moron with a cause demanding that we recognize a choice and accept it. Anything short makes you a "homophobe", "racist", etc. You know what? If I see a gay couple holding hands it makes me sick. I leave them alone because it's their choice, but I will not accept their choice as "normal". Do what you want but don't keep insisting that it's your right for us to recognize it as normal.
A deviant lifestyle? What, because it's different to yours? How in the hell does it make it deviant? You're laying heavy judgement down on people who live differently because they can't produce scientific evidence that their choices weren't made just to piss people like you off. That's just plain obnoxious.
Originally posted by Redwolf
Quite frankly, as hard and as often as they try, Gays have yet to provide definitive proof that their sexual orientation is a natural occurence.
Originally posted by Redwolf
I don't care what an individual does in their own bedroom but KEEP IT OUT OF MY FACE. You don't have the right to demand recognition for your CHOICE in life. You CHOOSE to live a deviant lifestyle, so stop demanding we all see it as "normal". It's NOT. I'm sick to death of every moron with a cause demanding that we recognize a choice and accept it. Anything short makes you a "homophobe", "racist", etc. You know what? If I see a gay couple holding hands it makes me sick. I leave them alone because it's their choice, but I will not accept their choice as "normal". Do what you want but don't keep insisting that it's your right for us to recognize it as normal.
Originally posted by Redwolf
Comparing NARTH to white supremacist sites is also a lame argument. You're comparing apples and oranges here. Sites like white supremacist sites are hate filled sites with no evidence.
Oh...yes. apples..oranges, both fruits yes? but one is a citrus fruit, and the other is not. Now you do realise that both fruits, can not be thought of as the same correct? Yet vitamin C can b found in both fruits. Of course the orange naturally has much more vitamin C in it then then the apple, but despite this its still a fruit, as is the apple. Neither become any less of a fruit..correct? So should we deny the apple the right to be named a fruit, because it has less vitamin C?
Originally posted by Redwolf
I can use the same argument back at you. Go to any pro-gay website and you get groups that are dedicated to proving homosexuality is normal, natural, and okay. The source for all their funds and motivation for study: to prove what they want to be true. The only problem with Pro-homosexual websites is that there is no scientific evidence that people are born gay.
Human genome..genetics...DNA. That's what is being discussed. Genetics do not play a part in enviournment, so they are not considered in genetic studies. The world is made up of billions of people. China alone contains more than a forth of the worlds population. Yet, still..this does not mean that each person in China is considered Chinese. Parts of Northern China(B¨§if¨¡ng) were settled by Slavics along the Siberian peninsula. These Chinese, enviournmentally, are considred vastly different than their southern counterparts. Today, these differences equate to many different sociological differences. Much like their European counterparts, wheat was used as the primary source of food in the northern kingdom, much more efficiently than rice was in the southern. Even today, such cultural differences have nothing to do with genetics, but with cultural influence.
Originally posted by Redwolf
There is still no scientifically accepted evidence proving that homosexuals are "born gay". You can not deny this. It's one of many arguments NARTH puts forth. It seems the "evidence" is on NARTHs side. They also put forth the view that people can change from the homosexual lifestyle. Which is true, so again more evidence for NARTH's side.
He..he..he. Narth. Yes. What is Narth? is it an agency meant to help individuals who do not properly utilise their sexual appendages? Why yes, i think it is? But what do you define to be proper? is having sex with a dog proper. Oh no, of course not..tsk tsk. Having sex with a dog is not proper. But dogs..do, of course, engage in rectal sex..yes?
So that means that humans, who are not dogs, should have control over themselves, and be able to choose if they can have rectal sex? Yes or No?
Originally posted by Redwolf
Are your replies "proof"? All you do is reply with "Your wrong because" and then put forth an opinion. You haven't put forth any evidence that I'm wrong, you're just claiming I'm wrong because you disagree with me.I on the other hand do have evidence for my view...i.e.
-No scientific evidence for homosexuality being genetic, no gay gene.
-Evidence that people can leave the homosexual lifestyle
-Evidence that many factors can lead someone down the path to homosexuality.
Your common sense is not equal to scientific proof. What it represents, or means, perhaps, or perhaps not..is..that, you may indeed have more common sense than most, but not as much scientific knowledge. So what behaviour do you exhibit when you use common sense against science? factual, yet illogical behaviour. Why illogical? Well what is illogical to someone with common sense, is logical to those who do not have it. Do you think me illogical, perhaps..Yes? Maybe so..or No..but knowledge of science is proof of how illogical behaviour, is not limited to those how have an over abundance of scientific knowledge.
Originally posted by Redwolf
NARTH is just one site with well educated experts. They provide great evidence that homosexuality is not genetic. Again if you have sources for your view I'd be happy to read them. Otherwise I'm not going to continue debating with someone who won't listen.
Well educated..does not mean correct, or lacking in correctness, or yes..maybe it does mean having knowledge, but of course, it does not mean that they are correct with their knowledge, although, of course..tsk..tsk..it could mean they have more common sense, and know how to utilise their knowledge more efficient. What is my point? Perhaps i don't have one. Or maybe I do, yes..i think i do. Your common sense does not make you more intelligent than others, but..it could, make you a bit wiser.
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
You babble a lot. I'm sure you think the more you talk the more people will think you're saying something of substance. However, you are right in your above statement. Marriage has a definition. And it is the conservative right that is trying to write into law state sponsored discrimination.Your justification is an endless list of websites that agree with you and lots of words that you've pulled out of your ass. I don't know how old you are, nor do I really care. But the majority of people on this site agree with gay marriage. A majority of the US citizens who post on this site agree with gay marriage. And a majority of those members are young. In the future of the country, it's the teenagers on this site that will have a say in the long run. And they'll see past the rhetoric of people like you. Call me unnatural, tell me I'm talking out of my ass when science has pointed out time and again that homosexuality is normal. From Freud to Kinsey to Berube have studied the facts and found that there is no measurable difference in performance, social interaction or mental health.
And you can go on and on about logical fallacies, but the what is more illogical; thinking that people choose to be gay or that people are born that way? Even some one with his head as firmly planet in their own ass as is yours can figure that out. That is why this debate is going to end in gay marriage being legal. If you want to disagree with the list I posted earlier, then there are references provided...look it up. Who would choose to be gay when there are so many people like yourself in this world?
And if you want the information on homosexuality being tied to genetics, then you can read the chosen/genetic thread. You can't go more than four or five posts with out tripping over a post that mentions it. Again, it's arrogant of you to assume that your time is more valuable than mine.
Keep believing that if it makes you feel better.
Endless list of websites with facts to back them up. All you are doing is spouting your opinion and stating it as fact.
LOL that's it? That's your ace up your sleeve? "The majority of American citizens that post on this site are for gay marriage". You base this view on a website message board? The majority of Americans in this country (not this message board) oppose gay marriage. Just as many young people oppose gay marriage, and they to are the future voice of this country aswell.
I'm not being arrogant I just hate it when someone says look up the "evidence" for "my" view of things when the "evidence" is somewhere in a 229 page thread. While I have been nice and given you direct links to my arguments. The fact that you refuse to give direct links to your arguments leads me to believe you have no decent argument. So you resort to name calling etc.
By the way I looked through at least 10 pages of the thread you want me to check out. Still no links to scientific reports. All I see are message board posters posting an opinion. "I think this" and "well it says here". Give me direct links.
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Congratulations on reducing a hundred of years of genetic research to a single sentence that spotlights your ignorance of what you speak.
Again....Genetically it is dictated by XX and XY chromosomes. Physically it is dictated by genetalia. Even the phsyiology of the brain is different for men and women. Heterosexuality is *hard-coded* in your brain. The variables of human choices, addictions, and mal-adjustments *alone* can explain homosexuality...this is also true of animals. Yes...animals can be mal-adjusted.
You claim I'm ignorant than "enlighten" me. It's no dictated by XX and Xy chromosomes?
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Homosexuals and Bisexuals have existed for thousands of years, even through media secrecy and social oppression and social invisibility.What the hell makes you think that some of our children in the future won't turn out Gay if we prevent Gay Media and Gay Civil Rights?
[b]Fact #1
Sexual Assault of children does NOT lead to homosexuality....sexual molestation leads to Dissassossiative Identity Disorder (a.k.a. multiple personality disorder), sometimes bipolar disorder, a lack of sexual libido, and mental disorders which lead the vitcim to live an unhappy, low-self esteemed life.Fact #2 Homosexuality is NOT a mental disorder, and this fact has been established in the 1900's when Homosexuality was removed from the list of medical illnesses. It is not caused by any negative stimuli, and is not a negative thing to be. Homosexuals live just fine lives, the only reason they suffer is due to the oppression that bigots like you have put them through for years.
Fact #3- Heterosexuality IS NOT the sexuality anyone is born with. No one is born with a natural sex, no baby is born with sexual desire...only innate sexual instincts which evolve due to an infinite array of factors. Where the hell did you learn that we are all born heterosexual, the fkn school of Jerry Falwell? [/B]
Source for this info please?
Originally posted by Syren
Has anyone provided definitive proof that it's not a natural occurrence? It's their sexual orientation, right? The way that they feel, the urges they have, the emotions they deal with, right? Are you saying that every gay person is putting on an act? And if so, may I ask why?There's a line here, one that most people can see quite clearly and would never cross. You can't group the two; people can love people no matter their gender but when it comes to animals I think you'll find most of us would take a negative stance. It's not a viable argument, really. As for the underage child view, aren't we talking about two consenting adults here anyway?
[b]
A child is best raised by a man and a woman in a world where people take your viewpoint, yes. But what about a world where people learn to have a more open-minded and accommodating view, which, in my opinion, would be more beneficial to the younger generations. Talk about putting a limit on learning and understanding. If I ever have children I hope they'll be comfortably introduced to the way the world works and the differences it supports. I won't allow my children to be ignorant through choice.
[b]
A deviant lifestyle? What, because it's different to yours? How in the hell does it make it deviant? You're laying heavy judgement down on people who live differently because they can't produce scientific evidence that their choices weren't made just to piss people like you off. That's just plain obnoxious.
You obvisously didn't read the info I posted. Plenty of scientific evidence.
Originally posted by Redwolf
Keep believing that if it makes you feel better.Endless list of websites with facts to back them up. All you are doing is spouting your opinion and stating it as fact.
Capt. Fantastic is right though - posting about the scientific validity of homosexuality is well supported in the "homosexual: Chosen or Genetic" thread if you care to look. Nods to MyOwn Muse who posted this just the other day:
About a year ago(sometime in the beginning of June, 2005), several scientists published a paper wherein they changed a single gene in a male fruit fly, and discovered that the fruit fly was suddenly courting only other male fruit flies (they did the same to a female fruit fly and got the same results).You can find several covers of the article in places like the nytimes online if you have a subscription, as well as a bunch of other on-line newspapers if you hit up google the right way. I would post a link, but my newness as a member is preventing me from being able to do so.
Of course, humans are increasingly more complex than fruit flies, so there's no exact translation to be made here, but I think it is something that can be taken into consideration. Fruit flies are common subjects for genetic testing, and a lot of experiments done with them have lead to a better understanding of our own genes.
I personally believe that both genetics and the environment have an effect on sexuality, but that it is certainly not something that happens by choice.
LOL that's it? That's your ace up your sleeve? "The majority of American citizens that post on this site are for gay marriage". You base this view on a website message board? The majority of Americans in this [B]country (not this message board) oppose gay marriage. Just as many young people oppose gay marriage, and they to are the future voice of this country aswell. [/b]
Hahahaha. I know, I know. People in the US have actually had the chance to vote on it, haven't they? It hasn't just be decided by the US government.
Again....Genetically it is dictated by XX and XY chromosomes. Physically it is dictated by genetalia. Even the phsyiology of the brain is different for men and women. Heterosexuality is *hard-coded* in your brain. The variables of human choices, addictions, and mal-adjustments *alone* can explain homosexuality...this is also true of animals. Yes...animals can be mal-adjusted.
I have no idea what you are on about - genetically it is decided, physically it is decided...
And out of interest, could you try to keep your arguments in a single post instead of three or four at once? This is understandable if you have a lot to post, but when one of them contains a single line?
Originally posted by PVS
if you're going to spew logical fallacies...learn what the hell they mean, and while you're at it, try to learn how to read full sentences to catch their meaning. you are deliberately dodging the point to win the thread. how sad ❌
I do know what they mean, maybe you're the one who needs to learn.
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