'Yes, more militant. Too bad for your side of the argument that Anakin was the "Best of the Golden Age of the Jedi" in saber dueling (because that is what Lucas was referring to saber dueling).'
This is rediculous Mokoto, you can't just make up sources. I'm guessing you heard this from Lightsnake right? Lucas didn't say 'in terms of saber dueling', he just said 'Golden Age of the Jedi' as in a peaceful period. I mean it's not even believeable that lucas would say something like that.
And...? Exar Kun was the strongest Force user of his time, too. So was Marka Ragnos. So was [OT] Palpatine. Not to mention we don't know how someone like Revan would fare against Nihilus, but whatever my point was: do you have a point?
If you have forgotten already, you stated that
Ah yes, Revan and Malak win easily despite fighting "the most powerful Jedi of his generation" ("perhaps of any generation"😉 and the Soresu master.
My point was raised to counter your point, that somehow since Anakin was viewed as the “strongest of his generation”, he could somehow beat Malak. Malak was also regarded as one of the strongest of his time.
Yes, more militant. Too bad for your side of the argument that Anakin was the "Best of the Golden Age of the Jedi" in saber dueling (because that is what Lucas was referring to saber dueling).
The hell? Golden age of dueling?
Does that seem even remotely logical? An age where lightaber dueling was at a minimal somehow produces better Jedi duelists, compared to an age where legions of dark Jedi were being trained at multiple academies, and made to fight with other Jedi ?
KOTOR era had several legions of dark Jedi being trained. Lightsaber duels were a far more common occurrence. Wars against dark Jedi were prevalent. The Jedi masters were pretty much warlords that were constantly under the threat of the darkside.
In PT, the rates of dueling were much less, since there were far fewer dark Jedi. How does “golden age of lightsaber dueling” even make sense in this context?
Please address this point. Golden age of dueling. Absurd!
Did Revan's awesome unknown powers (of which you've still yet to name) save him from getting knocked out by a computer?
What the hell are you talking about? Since when was Revan, as the dark lord of the sith, knocked out by a computer? Are you saying how he was memory wiped?
It sure as hell saved Kenobi from a four lightsaber swinging monstrosity named General Grievous, who was capable of defeating seven Jedi at once.
Oh please, Revan was trapped in a room where he had to face off against a greater number of droids that could fight and defeat stronger Jedi. Considering you had to at least kill around six of these droids for the door to Malak’s chambers to open, then Obi Wan defeating a droid insensitive to the force is no big feat.
Okay, so Darth Raiden can use Force lightning. What happened when Dooku tried to use Force lightning on Obi-Wan?
Revan’s ability to call lightning from the sky is in no way how force lightning is described. Force lightning originates from the wielders finger tips.
This more like a toned down version of DE Sidious’s force storm, since the source of energy originated from the sky.
Oh wow. That answers my original question. What form and what Force powers does he have? Force lightning has been shown to be blocked (demonstrated by one of the combatants), so his Mortal Kombat skills won't be the end all solution here.
Other than the “force storm" he demonstrated, the Rakatans described him as slaughtering their teams with his magics. His contemporaries, Malak and Traya were able to use force waves, that far outshine anything Anakin has displayed in terms of force power. Revan, who is regarded as stronger than these two, could do far better. Malak also simulatenously lifted two Jedi knights, fried one with lightning and impaled the other with his saber.
Heck Anakin was not even familiar with force lightning. BUT WAIT, HE IS TEH CHOZEN OF THE FORCE. HIGHEST MITOKLADORIONS!!!
Yea right. Gimme a break.
Yeah, tell me something I haven't heard repeated three hundred sixty five times. How much does it enhance the user exactly again?
What, do you want an exact number or something? The increase was substantial. Third party narratives from Databank described Malak as being “unstoppable” with the power of the Star Forge.
Malak also boasted about the power of the Star Station. He indicated that it was fueled by an entire race’s dark side abilities.
If the amount force power in the station is a significant amount, then the amount Malak was empowered was also significant
In KOTOR 2, Bastila described all the other force wielders who tried to control this power as being destroyed.
Revan was forced to defeat Malak enhanced by the force powers of this battle station at least twice.
And Anakin was praised by about twenty "exceptional force users and also from an unbiased source". As I originally said: do you have a point?
Only to state, that Anakin being praised is no big deal. The same deal of praise was amounted on Revan and Malak.
"Revan is the Heart of the Force." - Traya on Revan.Claiming Traya is not a biased source is pretty hilarious considering her thoughts on Revan.
There were several instances where she claimed that Revan, one of her students, was a complete and utter failure. Exactly how does that reflect a positive bias on Revan?
There's no proof that Revan has an instakill
Please explain how Revan, who is described as more powerful, more talented, and more ambitious could not devise similar such powerful techniques?
Well, if you want to ignore the fact Anakin is the strongest Jedi of his generation, save for Yoda because he's going to die in twenty years anyways, then no - there's no basis for it.
I see you conveniently leave out Mace Windu.
Anakin defeated Dooku (who is likened to Mace Windu); who fought SEVERAL Jedi (and I'd be willing to put those Jedi on a higher pedestal than the no name DJ that Kavar defeated).
So you are basically ignoring the fact that the dark Jedi of KOTOR fought more Jedi than those of the PT? The DJ’s in KOTOR were waging war with the Jedi during the times of Revan and Malak as DLOTS.
Did you see the Jedi and dark Jedi that were fighting on board the ship where you start out in KOTOR?
Lightsaber duels were much more common in KOTOR. How exactly can the PT JK’s compare
Cin Drallig - you know - Cin Drallig, the Battlemaster of PT era
How exactly can you quantify Cin Drallig’s power other than saying “ZOMG teh chozen one killed him!!!111”!!!
How many dark Jedi did Cin Drallig kill? For all we know, he obtained his rank as battle master because of his extraordinary ability to kill droids 😄.
Like fighting him with one arm and killing two of his padawans [Whie and Bene],
Way to go Anakin, you just succeeded in killing an unimpressive Jedi master and his equally unimpressive padawans.
And killing Serra Keto on top of that
ZOMG Cin’s student!!!
Please, not impressed.
And? Do you know how strong those "raiding parties" were? Or even what exactly happened?
The raiding parties were Sion and Nihilus’s finest DJ’s trained to hunt down and kill the Jedi masters.
Vrook stated “We are being assaulted by an enemy that we cannot see or sense through the force.” This already implies a limitation on these Jedi masters, and yet they fared quite well.
What happened to PT Jedi's when they were ambushed by clone troopers. They were brutally gunned down.
The three in KOTOR 2 managed to survive these ambushes, clearly reflecting their battle hardened nature.
And Dooku was the same master duelist who used the lightsaber to lightsaber form, and was trained in "The Golden Age of Jedi", and was able to bring down two Jedi masters with ease
Wait a second, because this is the “The Golden Age of the Jedi,” somehow the Jedi are overall the best duelists of any other era? Illogical. Golden age, for all we know could be interpreted as the age in which Jedi prospered and lightsaber dueling did not have to be as practiced. It was a time of peace, well as close to peace as there can be in Star Wars.
Durge
So? He managed, through a stroke of luck, send Durge into the sun. I don’t see him shooting lightning to annihialate Durge. Revan could have done this, since it is clear Durge is weak against lightning.
Ventress
Ventress was not a DLOTS, she was a dark Jedi. Again I am unimpressed. He only killed her in Obsession because Obi Wan was talking with her.
Dooku
Noteworthy, but arguable he even won that battle. Malak is probably stronger, given the context of the age he was from (more fighting, wars) and also how he defeated the Mace Windu of the time subjected to these conditions.
Jedi younglings
Oh noes!11 The younglings, what terrible power has young Skywalker, to so easily slay children.
Originally posted by zephiel7
If you have forgotten already, you stated thatAh yes, Revan and Malak win easily despite fighting "the most powerful Jedi of his generation" ("perhaps of any generation"😉 and the Soresu master.
And my two statements being compared means what exactly?
My point was raised to counter your point, that somehow since Anakin was viewed as the “strongest of his generation”, he could somehow beat Malak. Malak was also regarded as one of the strongest of his time.
Yes, one of the strongest (which could be anybody who's not the weakest) out of people like Bandon. I originally posted that response because someone said "Malak and Revan easily".
Does that seem even remotely logical? An age where lightaber dueling was at a minimal compared to an age where legions of dark Jedi were being trained at multiple academies, somehow produces better Jedi duelists?
Oh yeah, I forgot the immense amount of capable duelists the Old Republic (for Revan's time) put out. Only a handful at most.
Does that seem even logical? KOTOR era had several legions of dark Jedi being trained. Lightsaber duels was a far more common occurrence. Wars against dark Jedi were prevalent. The Jedi masters were pretty much warlords that were constantly under the threat of the darkside.
And yet we only see a handful of capable duelists. Take the quote up with whoever stated it to be that way, I didn't get it first hand.
Oh please, Revan was trapped in a room where he had to face off against a greater number of droids that could fight and defeat stronger Jedi. Considering you had to at least kill around six of these droids for the door to Malak’s chambers to open, then Obi Wan defeating a droid insensitive to the force is no big feat.
Very impressive Revan. How did you defeat those spectacular droids again? You could've used mines for Buddha's sake.
Revan’s ability to call lightning from the sky is in no way how force lightning is described. Force lightning originates from the wielders finger tips.
Ah yes, I forgot that a primitive race who hasn't seen any magical powers for a millenia is going to know how to describe Force lightning.
This more like a toned down version of DE Sidious’s force storm, since the source of energy originated from the sky.
Yes, considering a primitive race describes it as such it must be a Force storm. Other than the fact that the Force storm in KOTOR arcs up first, and then rains down.
Other than the “force storm" he demonstrated, the Rakatans described him as slaughtering their teams with his magics. His contemporaries, Malak and Traya were able to use force waves, that far outshine anything Anakin has displayed in terms of force power. Revan, who is regarded as stronger than these two, could do far better. Malak also simulatenously lifted two Jedi knights, fried one with lightning and impaled the other with his saber.
Amazing. Anakin killed the Battlemaster with one hand while Force choking another Jedi with his other hand.
BUT WAIT, HE IS TEH CHOZEN OF THE FORCE. HIGHEST MITOKLADORIONS!!!
And when have I ever made an argument like that? Show me where exactly I've ever said anything remotely close to this and I'll admit Revan > Anakin any day of the week.
What, do you want an exact number or something? The increase was substantial. Third party narratives from Databank described Malak as being “unstoppable” with the power of the Star Forge.
Third party sources now?
In KOTOR 2, Bastila described all the other force wielders who tried to control this power as being destroyed.
And for all we know, those force wielders could've been simple wannabe Sith padawans.
Revan was forced to defeat Malak enhanced by the force powers of this battle station at least twice.
Yes, I've heard this three millions time.
Only to state, that Anakin being praised is no big deal. The same deal of praise was amounted on Revan and Malak.
And my response was just that as well.
There were several instances where she claimed that Revan, one of her students, was a complete and utter failure. Exactly how does that reflect a positive bias on Revan?
Okay, and as you've already said: praise is no big deal.
You are missing the point. The fact is Traya was inspired by the teachings of Malachor 5 to devise such a powerful technique.
You are missing the point, which is simple: your only taking a guess at this. It's not factual information to say that Revan has those skills.
Anyways, even if you were to say that - I'd ask "Well what the hell were they then?"
Please explain how Revan, who is described as more powerful, more talented, and more ambitious could not devise similar such powerful techniques?
Please explain to me facts. Like does Revan have these skills definitely? Can you say for sure? No, therefore not applicable.
I see you conveniently leave out Mace Windu.
I left out Windu because it was his era. It was not Yoda's considering his lifespan only granted him like twenty some years. Mace was considerably in his prime during ROTS.
So you are basically ignoring the fact that the dark Jedi of KOTOR fought more Jedi than those of the PT? The DJ’s in KOTOR were waging war with the Jedi during the times of Revan and Malak as DLOTS.
So...this somehow means they are necessarily better? No name Dark Jedi faced no name Jedi. Impressive, that r
Did you see the Jedi and dark Jedi that were fighting on board the ship where you start out in KOTOR?
Yes, did you see it?
Lightsaber duels were much more common in KOTOR. How exactly can the PT JK’s compare
Perhaps because to me it seems half the PT roster are prodigies with a lightsaber, and only a handful from Revan's era can be considered such. Also add to the fact that we cannot simply say because duels are more common that it means they are necessarily better.
I'd like to know where Luke developed such skill, along with Dooku, Mace, and so on.
How many dark Jedi did Cin Drallig kill? For all we know, he obtained his rank as battle master because of his extraordinary ability to kill droids 😄.
Yes, if you want to argue "logically" (as you put it) with me - don't be ridiculous.
Way to go Anakin, you just succeeded in killing an unimpressive Jedi master and his equally unimpressive padawans.
I love the downplaying on your part. Here goes one from me:
Way to go Revan, you just succeeded in killing Malak, even though we have no clue what happened and it could've been a lucky hit. Malak is unimpressive because I say so.
Vrook stated “We are being assaulted by an enemy that we cannot see or sense through the force.” This already implies a limitation on these Jedi masters, and yet they fared quite well.
What happened exactly again?
Wait a second, because this is the “The Golden Age of the Jedi,” somehow the Jedi are overall the best duelists of any other era? Illogical. Golden age, for all we know could be interpreted as the age in which Jedi prospered and lightsaber dueling did not have to be as practiced. It was a time of peace, well as close to peace as there can be in Star Wars.
Yep, the PT sure was a time of peace despite the fact there's was a war raging on throughout the entire trilogy. We see almost everyone being a described as a "prodigy" or possessing great skill with a lightsaber. We see...how many exactly in Revan's era?
Basically you're saying that because the soldiers that were in the Vietnam War were constantly at conflict, and were in a "more martial time" than like prior to 9/11 that the soldiers are better. My question: how the hell would you know? How do you know the PT era didn't produce numerous super prodigies (as seems to be the case anyways) that don't necessarily need war to be superior?
So? He managed, through a stroke of luck, send Durge into the sun. I don’t see him shooting lightning to annihialate Durge. Revan could have done this, since it is clear Durge is weak against lightning.
And give me the exact details surrounding Malak's defeat if you will.
Ventress was not a DLOTS, she was a dark Jedi. Again I am unimpressed. He only killed her in Obsession because Obi Wan was talking with her.
And what is your point about Ventress not being a DLOTS? Did I ever say she was? No.
Noteworthy, but arguable he even won that battle.
I'll call bullsh*t if you don't mind considering there's at least seven other sources to confirm Anakin > Dooku.
Malak is probably stronger, given the context of the age he was from (more fighting, wars) and also how he defeated the Mace Windu of the time subjected to these conditions.
What the hell? "The Mace Windu of the time". How is Kavar = Mace? Considering we haven't seen him do anything too impressive, less on the level of Mace Windu (and that's basically the argument you're presenting to me).
The real question that I care about is that I'd love to here how exactly Revan defeated Malak. Really, you don't even have to reply to any of that - just answer that one question.
Well Gee Sama... First thing:
The SF droids were designed to destroy Jedi. Malak himself said "Only few in the order can defeat the Star Forge droids", which says enough about Revan.
And a handful of worthy fighters in the order? If I recall there were equal amounts of worthy combatants in both times, so what is your point exactly? And it's not exactly called force lightning when it's coming from the sky, hence the term "low level force storm".
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
The SF droids were designed to destroy Jedi. Malak himself said "Only few in the order can defeat the Star Forge droids", which says enough about Revan.
Yes, and I suppose me using mines to defeat them says a lot as well? No canon information on how he did it.
And a handful of worthy fighters in the order? If I recall there were equal amounts of worthy combatants in both times,
Really? Like who?
And it's not exactly called force lightning when it's coming from the sky, hence the term "low level force storm".
And you're still ignoring the fact it was said by a group of primitives who haven't seen magic for a millenia. On top of that the Force storm of KOTOR arcs up first anyways:
Yes, I'm sure Darth Raiden was able to sprout down his amazing powers from the sky, even though it's something that was described by a primitive race, and isn't even realistic for Star Wars. Even more if you look at how Force storm actually arcs up first.
You seem to have a strong dislike for the character, especially with certain statements like "We have no proof how he did it"? Considering the fact the fact that one of Malak's apprentice said "No my lord, they didn't defeat them, Revan is with them", to which Malak responded with "Revan was always strong in the force". Followed by Malak telling the guy to send everything at Revan and having no faith in them saying "They will only slow him down". I don't know why you want to get into technicalities here, I personally feel the case for Revan>Anakin or Yoda or Sidious is somewhat clear. Also, lets say it IS force lightning, who in the PT era has shown that much ability and skill that Revan displayed throughout the storyline?
Oh and Vrook, Vandar, Malak, Revan, Bastilla, and Dorak were all worthy combatants.. Just because the movies only show lightsaber duels with worthy combatants doesn't necessarily mean all of a sudden PT era>Old republic Era.
And as for a more warlike era, the Clone Wars were indeed a warlike period, yet they didn't start til the end of episode 2. I think this is addressed to Nai actually. How are you going to tell me the Clone Wars were more warlike than The Sith War, the Mandalorian War, and the Civil War(Which was ironically the most devastating war up to date)? I fail to see how the old republic era was NOT the most warlike.
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
You seem to have a strong dislike for the character,
Nope. I do, however, have a strong dislike for statements like the most powerful person of one generation can't hold a candle to another.
especially with certain statements like "We have no proof how he did it"?
Well, I'd like to actually pose the question of how the battle happened. As it seems most people think Revan crushed Malak within a blink. I'm simply saying it could've been as close or as lucky as Obi-Wan and Anakin or Obi-Wan and Darth Maul.
Considering the fact the fact that one of Malak's apprentice said "No my lord, they didn't defeat them, Revan is with them", to which Malak responded with "Revan was always strong in the force".
How does that pertain to Malak and Revan's fight?
Followed by Malak telling the guy to send everything at Revan and having no faith in them saying "They will only slow him down". I don't know why you want to get into technicalities here,
Because really his beating "everything" is mostly gameplay, which really means squat in a debate. Along with the fact he had help.
I personally feel the case for Revan>Anakin or Yoda or Sidious is somewhat clear.
And why is it clear? The answer usually is only one thing: because of his defeat of Malak.
Also, lets say it IS force lightning, who in the PT era has shown that much ability and skill that Revan displayed throughout the storyline?
What skill is exactly my question. Beating Malak while he got unknown power boost x from the Star Forge?
Oh and Vrook, Vandar, Malak, Revan, Bastilla, and Dorak were all worthy combatants.. Just because the movies only show lightsaber duels with worthy combatants doesn't necessarily mean all of a sudden PT era>Old republic Era.
And that would be a handful. I wasn't even referring to the PT movies alone, the comics also concede to the fact they have numerous other opponents not shown in movies.
And as for a more warlike era, the Clone Wars were indeed a warlike period, yet they didn't start til the end of episode 2. I think this is addressed to Nai actually. How are you going to tell me the Clone Wars were more warlike than The Sith War, the Mandalorian War, and the Civil War(Which was ironically the most devastating war up to date)? I fail to see how the old republic era was NOT the most warlike.
Very true points indeed, I suppose the OR is definitely more martial than the PT.
Youre missing my point Sama, how is it even possible for Revan to get lucky against Malak, if he is the more powerful of the two and always has been? This isn't the case of Obiwan and Anakin or Obiwan and Maul, this is where the strongest of two wins. And I'm saying Revan was more powerful than anyone in the PT era because he was the most powerful of the light side, AND the dark side. His abilities were unmatched, as was his genius military tactics. I should erase that since that has nothing to do with power but the fact that he was the greatest on both sides of the force says a lot.
Oh and really he doesn't say "Golden Age of the Jedi", that was my mistake. He says "Prime of the Jedi". Now tell me - what does "prime" mean? Better yet I'll tell you:
prime ( P ) Pronunciation Key (prm)
adj.
First in excellence, quality, or value. See Usage Note at perfect.
First in degree or rank; chief. See Synonyms at chief.
First or early in time, order, or sequence; original.
Of the highest U.S. government grade of meat.
Mathematics. Of, relating to, or being a prime number.
Now clearly it isn't relating to prime numbers. So my question is: how can what Lucas says be interpreted as "peaceful"? It clearly means the best of the Jedi and he also talks about fighting - how it should be more spectacular and all that jazz because it's where we see the highest quality of Jedi.
But we don't see the HIGHEST quality of Jedi that we see in the comics and what not. I know the definition of Prime, but in the Jedi's case peace is the perfect example of prime, is it not? Perhaps you want to consult the Jedi Code? The ideal golden age of the jedi is peace, the ideal golden age of the sith is power. This is the concept of light and dark side, you know this. So your definition of prime kinda contradicts the characters' abilities in the PT and other eras.
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
This isn't the case of Obiwan and Anakin or Obiwan and Maul, this is where the strongest of two wins.
Why? Anakin is firmly Obi-Wan's superior. Maul was firmly Obi-Wan's superior. Yet the superiors both lost, so tell me why it is clearly an easy victory for Revan?
And I'm saying Revan was more powerful than anyone in the PT era because he was the most powerful of the light side,
Wrong. Yoda is "the strongest foe the darkness has ever known". Unless you're referring to his era alone.
AND the dark side.
Exar Kun > Revan.
His abilities were unmatched, as was his genius military tactics.
Yes, all in his era (and you don't know how he'd fair against Nihilus). Thrawn is definitely Revan's superior in tactics.
I should erase that since that has nothing to do with power but the fact that he was the greatest on both sides of the force says a lot.
And I hope you're referring to his era alone.
But we don't see the HIGHEST quality of Jedi that we see in the comics and what not.
As Silencer S put it to me:
Stop right there.
Resume.
Read that and explain to me how the PT isn't better.
I know the definition of Prime, but in the Jedi's case peace is the perfect example of prime, is it not?
No. The highest quality of Jedi means just that. It clearly doesn't pertain to "peace". It's referring to the Jedi's skill, not their ideals.
Perhaps you want to consult the Jedi Code? The ideal golden age of the jedi is peace, the ideal golden age of the sith is power.
Perhaps you want to consult George Lucas? It doesn't refer to their ideals, it refers to the Jedi themselves.
This is the concept of light and dark side, you know this. So your definition of prime kinda contradicts the characters' abilities in the PT and other eras.
How exactly does it contradict other eras exactly? The concept of light and dark has nothing to do with this, and that "peace" sh*t is just that. There wasn't even peace in the first movie, so to say that the PT era as a whole was the Jedi ideal is ridiculous. It was referring to the Jedi's skills, hence why Lucas wanted to make the fighting as extravagent as it was.
Ok well few things.. You're going to take lightsnake's route and explain the nonsensical Yoda quote? That would mean Yoda>Exar Kun, Nadd, Sadow, Ragnos, etc.. Aka wrong..
Secondly, Thrawn is his superios=assumption/personal opinion.
Now, unless you can show me where GL said that the golden age of the Jedi was in terms of power(no source because it's not true), then why don't you think about my reasoning as it makes a little more sense than the obscure term.
How he'd fair against Nihilus? Boy you're just throwing all of the anti Revan rhetoric into one post huh? Tell me, how would someone that had a 3rd of the republic+the sith armies and the SF fair against 1 ship? What's Nihilus going to do, eat countless of ships before they all destroy his? That's not even something I should be discussing because it's so ridiculous.
And I have read Nai's explanation and I also know he prefers PT over old republic. His explanation is clear and is very logical, I just disagree with it. Hence the term Nai's explanation or "opinion"..
I still cannot believe you brought Nihilus into this..
And actually there WAS peace in the galaxy during the time of PT. If you are referring to the turmoil on Naboo as warlike as anything else that happened to the old republic, you'd find that it wasn't exactly a warlike time. No Sama, peace ended when the clone wars begin, and maybe a little bit before that. But I am anxious to see what Lucas meant with the golden age..
May I also point out that Nai mentions the sith at the apex of their power, were the ancient sith and that everyone that followed afterwards grew less and less in power, but I think I've see you disagree with that. So Nai is right with the PT case and wrong with the ancient sith?
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Ok well few things.. You're going to take lightsnake's route and explain the nonsensical Yoda quote? That would mean Yoda>Exar Kun, Nadd, Sadow, Ragnos, etc.. Aka wrong..
Actually, it would mean that Ragnos - not being a Jedi/threat to the Darkside itself isn't included.
It would mean that Exar Kun - not being a Jedi/threat to the Darkside itself isn't included.
It would mean Freedon Nadd - not being a Jedi/threat to the Darkside itself isn't included.
It would mean Naga Sadow - not being a Jedi/threat to the Darkside itself isn't included.
It would mean etc. - not being a Jedi/threat to the Darkside itself isn't included.
Did you even read the quote?
Secondly, Thrawn is his superios=assumption/personal opinion.
No, it's outright stated in Heir (or Survivor's Quest I forget) that Thrawn is the best tactician in the history of the universe. Should I direct you to the Revan vs. Thrawn debate? Where it's made clear that Revan is Thrawn's inferior.
Now, unless you can show me where GL said that the golden age of the Jedi was in terms of power(no source because it's not true), then why don't you think about my reasoning as it makes a little more sense than the obscure term.
Because it's not the "Golden Age of the Jedi", it's the "Prime of the Jedi". Prime meaning the highest degree and quality of Jedi - you cannot argue with that. And why doesn't it make sense considering we haven't seen Jedi display more power in any other era (the NJO possibly, however that's loosely based on the actual Jedi philosophy).
How he'd fair against Nihilus? Boy you're just throwing all of the anti Revan rhetoric into one post huh?
Yes, that's exactly what I'm doing. My mission on these forums is to prove that Revan isn't a god, and to downplay anything he's ever accomplished because of my hatred of the character.
Really now - all I was saying is that you don't know how he'd fair against Nihilus. So really he's only the most powerful of the KOTOR era he was actually featured in.
Tell me, how would someone that had a 3rd of the republic+the sith armies and the SF fair against 1 ship? What's Nihilus going to do, eat countless of ships before they all destroy his?
What the hell are you talking about? I'm talking about Revan [singular] versus Nihilus. As in one on one. I don't know where you got fleets vs. fleets or a space battle for that matter, but whatever...
That's not even something I should be discussing because it's so ridiculous.
Again I say: what the hell are you talking about?
And I have read Nai's explanation and I also know he prefers PT over old republic. His explanation is clear and is very logical, I just disagree with it. Hence the term Nai's explanation or "opinion"..
I still cannot believe you brought Nihilus into this..
Yes, because me bringing Nihilus vs. Revan (one on one) is somehow relevant to this point, eh? And really, what do you have other than "it's a more martial time period hence Old Republic Jedi > all in dueling or power".
And actually there WAS peace in the galaxy during the time of PT. If you are referring to the turmoil on Naboo as warlike as anything else that happened to the old republic, you'd find that it wasn't exactly a warlike time. No Sama, peace ended when the clone wars begin, and maybe a little bit before that. But I am anxious to see what Lucas meant with the golden age..
It's clear, you just don't accept it. Similiar to what you are accusing me of. And really, why would the entire Prequel Trilogy refer to just the events before TPM? No, it is referring to the entire PT era Jedi's skill; not their ideals as you seem to think considering throughout all three of the movies there is not peace. Moreso in Ep. 2 and 3, however, that's still the PT and thus cannot be referred to as "peace" especially when the entire point of the PT was to show how the Empire rose to power - which was not through peace.
1. I believe I've proved how he'd fair against Nihilus. If you want to use him in a 1 on 1 match with Nihilus, Nihilus would defeat anybody, so you have no point here. I don't think Revan is a God but at the same time you're trying to do everything in your power to reduce his character to nothing. Also I'm not saying Revan is better, I'm saying you're trying to diminish the character. Revan would probably be the second greatest tactician next to Thrawn.. And again you speak of the "Golden Age of the Jedi", so by your logic, the PT Jedi should defeat the likes of Exar Kun, Freedon Nadd, Ulic, and the ancient sith, correct?
And no I didn't read the quote, but the way you are explaining it is the same way lightsnake was. That Yoda>all the people I mentioned, which is far from the truth.
Oh and Nai, if you get a chance, you need to fix something on that site. You specifically state that the Jedi didn't go to war during the Mandalorian Wars. However it was explicitly stated that "countless Jedi flocked to join Revan and Malak to fight the Mandalorians".
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
1. I believe I've proved how he'd fair against Nihilus.
You mean this:
Tell me, how would someone that had a 3rd of the republic+the sith armies and the SF fair against 1 ship? What's Nihilus going to do, eat countless of ships before they all destroy his?
Yes, saying that Revan's fleet would annihilate Nihilus proved to me Revan > Nihilus.
If you want to use him in a 1 on 1 match with Nihilus, Nihilus would defeat anybody, so you have no point here. I don't think Revan is a God but at the same time you're trying to do everything in your power to reduce his character to nothing.
Really? So I suppose me saying stuff like...
"Which leaves it to Revan/Anakin, and really - I'm not going to say who'd win for sure; though I'd lean towards Revan."
...that means I'm trying to reduce him to zip? Considering I hold Anakin is such a high regard, that's quite the contrary to what you're accusing me of doing.
Also I'm not saying Revan is better,
Really? Throughout this entire debate you've gave short little spiels saying stuff like:
But I definitely would not take Anakin over a far more powerful and experienced Malak.
Implying Anakin is far out of his league.
I'm saying you're trying to diminish the character.
Like you attempted to do here:
again who was the most powerful force user Anakin had defeated? Dooku?
Revan would probably be the second greatest tactician next to Thrawn..
Irrelevant.
And again you speak of the "Golden Age of the Jedi", so by your logic, the PT Jedi should defeat the likes of Exar Kun, Freedon Nadd, Ulic, and the ancient sith, correct?
Say again? My logic does not dictate that whatsoever. Why would the Jedi of the PT be able to take them down when the Jedi of the OR couldn't even do that? What single Jedi stopped Exar Kun? None. Ulic was stripped of the Force in a weakened state emotionally, and unable to defend anyways. And the Ancient Sith? They practically killed each other off.
And no I didn't read the quote, but the way you are explaining it is the same way lightsnake was. That Yoda>all the people I mentioned, which is far from the truth.
Actually I wasn't explaining it like that whatsoever. I was stating it in response to you saying that Revan was the strongest of the Lightside, which he's only the strongest of his own era in terms of the Lightside. In terms of the Darkside, as I said, Exar Kun > Revan and you didn't have a problem with that.
When I said Revan was the strongest I meant in his era, and if you wanna get technical, then he is just under Exar Kun. No I don't think Revan is a God although I would put him above anyone in the PT. And the way you described the Golden age of the PT, it seemed like you thought the PT Jedi could contend with the Old Republic, or sith. While I am on the topic, do you seem to have a star wars core book or DS Source book lying around? Just wondering.
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
When I said Revan was the strongest I meant in his era, and if you wanna get technical, then he is just under Exar Kun.
Rather just under Ulic. Actually that would be a nice thread. Ulic vs. Revan, but I could care less considering this has nothing to do with Ulic.
And the way you described the Golden age of the PT, it seemed like you thought the PT Jedi could contend with the Old Republic, or sith.
The PT Jedi could contend with the OR Jedi. Certain Sith, however, no.
While I am on the topic, do you seem to have a star wars core book or DS Source book lying around? Just wondering.
Nope, sorry. Though I would like to see if what you were claiming in the L&EU section is true, because that'd be quite something. Good luck on finding it, and hopefully it's right (though I believe Lightsnake has the DS Sourcebook).
Well I went to Glentract's site and it had it on there and then I read a thread about it here.. If it is true the Lightsnake purposely and conveniently left it out, and that would end all debates about Ragnos>all especially Sidious.. Also I don't believe Ulic>Revan so that would indeed be a good thread.
