Nebaris, I'm getting quite tired of continuously disproving your ridiculous theories, but for the sake of humanity, I can not allow your lack of capable reasoning to go unanswered to.
Originally posted by GM Nebaris
Actually, he is discussing the choreography for TPM...
He's discussing the choreography for the entire movies, unless you're going to argue that he only wanted the lightsaber duels (and there was only one in TPM) to be "more energized version and a more faster version" in TPM alone, then I suggest you get a grip of reality. You can also use the dialogue he uses to describe the OT, and infer that he means the entire prequel trilogy because of his description of how the PT will differ from the OT.
To me,
Yes, to you the following statements are correct, however, to the rest of the world they are wrong.
the Prime of The Jedi would be the jedi at its highest point, which would imply relative peace and a democratic government with the Republic at the height of its power.
1.) "Relative peace"? There wasn't even relative peace in TPM itself! Queen Amidala was in danger of getting assassinated, the Trade Federation wanted to seize Naboo, and a huge battle erupted.
2.) How exactly would it make sense for the fights to be "more energized/faster/extravagant/spectacular/etc" if it's in a time of "relative peace"?
3.) You're arguing with the Lucas, logic, and everything in between. As I said before, I suggest you stop.
4.) Instead of me posting the six definitions of "prime" from the dictionary, I'll give it to you from the thesaurus (quick def.):
Main Entry: prime
Part of Speech: noun 1
Definition: best
Since Lucas was referring to the entire PT era (and he was, it's stupidity on your part to argue it), your points are defeated.
Lucas is reffering to TPM when he states that it was 'The Prime of The Jedi'.
Again (in case you missed it the first time): He's discussing the choreography for the entire movies, unless you're going to argue that he only wanted the lightsaber duels (and there was only one in TPM) to be "more energized version and a more faster version" in TPM alone, then I suggest you get a grip on reality. You can also use the dialogue he uses to describe the OT, and infer that he means the entire prequel trilogy because of his description of how the PT will differ from the OT.
The whole video and article was about TPM, not the whole PT,
Maybe because AOTC and ROTS weren't released yet (though that's not to say Lucas didn't know what he wanted for them)? Lucas makes clear that it's his vision for the entire PT (being the "Prime of the Jedi"😉 that he wants all the lightsaber duels to differ from what we saw in the OT ("old men, crippled half droid/half men, young boys"😉, not just in TPM alone where we only see one freaking duel.
and TPM was part of The Golden Age of The Jedi, or Prime of The Jedi or whatever you want to call it. So sadly, 'The Prime of The Jedi' says nothing about the combat capabilities of the jedi.
So, sadly, because "The Prime of the Jedi" says everything about the Jedi of the era, and because you're illogical (and can't accept being wrong, I mean really - making up shit like "Lucas looked tired"? lol) your theories are disproved, and my facts stand.
So unlucky, Mokoto.
Only unlucky that I have to deal with your bull, Nebaris.
Originally posted by Darth Nihiuls
well malak and anakin could go either way because malak is(suposedly) on level with dooku.
If Malak is on par with Dooku, why would it go either way? I seem to remember this happening at the end of the duel:
For clarification, the person holding the two lightsabers is Anakin Skywalker, the man about to be beheaded is Count Dooku. Meaning Anakin > Dooku (on top of seven other sources that confirm it was a fair win), so Malak dies as well. Add to the fact Malak is not as intelligent as Dooku, and you have a dead Malak within a minute.
Also for the record Revan is one of the greatest sith of his time.
You do realize "one of the greatest" could be anybody that's not the worst, right?
The raktans talk about it.
A primitive race no less who hasn't seen magical powers in a millenia = fallible third party characters.
In the game everyone always talks about how powerfull revan is.
And? What does this have to do with anything? Do they specifically say "Revan is stronger than Anakin"? No? Okay then. Anakin is also the most powerful from his generation, so I fail to see how Revan being the most powerful of his means anything.
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Is this thread still going on? I'll end it again..
It never ended, so tell me exactly how you plan on ending it again?
Revan's team wins whether Revan fights Anakin or Obiwan..
Originally posted by jollyjim311
Wow, Sexy! That's some seriously sound logic you have there. Great job on proving your case! I mean, how could anyone deny that Revan > Anakin because you say so, right? Bravo.
Edited response for top level sarcasm.
Actually I have provided a logical argument time and time again. Proving Revan as the top combatant of these 4 wasn't difficult.
Ah! How could I forget? You're argument that "Revan pwns Anakin and Obi-Wan because he beat Darth 'Jawless Wonder' Malak in circumstances unknown! While the 'Jawless Wonder' was being supercharged by the unsubstantiated, unquantified, unspecified powers of Star Forge!"
Not hard at all, Sexy. 🙄
2. Lucas said that he wished for the fighting to be like that in comparison to the OT, because in the OT, they only had an old man, a half crippled droid and a boy who hadn't been trained properly whereas in TPM, in The Prime of The Jedi, there would be a complete jedi order full of jedi knights.
3. No, I'm arguing with you because for some reason, you seem to believe that Prime of The Jedi somehow translates into the strongest jedi order ever. The jedi don't think of themselves as warriors, but they realise that it is their duty to occasionally step up because they are naturally more powerful becasuse of the abilities they receive through the force. Their highest point, or Prime of The Jedi would not neccesarily be the point at which they were most powerful - it doesn't say anything about power.
4. The problem here is that the whole article including the bit about 'The Prime of The Jedi' was discussed in a choreographic (I think that's a word 😛 ?) point of view, which automatically disregards everything except the movies. This is where your argument fails.
The thing is, Revan was able to progress through an enitire fortess of dark jedi, sith soldiers and battle droids (probably a mixture of sneaking and attacking with the help of his jedi companions, HK and Canderous imo). He was then able to fend off Bastilla's attacks (while she was consumed by the dark side and powered by the Star Forge and turn her back to the light. And he was finally able to defeat Malak, who was not only powered by the Star Forge to a high degree but who had grown extremely powerful since Revan had last been dark lord.
That feat alone puts him above Skywalker.
Again, Revan>Anakin has been debated. We don't need to read about Anakin's feat wars. Nothing puts Anakin ahead of Revan, NOTHING. Not the fact that he beat Dooku, not the fact that he got beat by Obiwan, not the "omg he's the chosen one and his potential is limitless" crap. Revan beating SF powered Malak alone puts him above everyone but Anakin.
Sexy, tell me exactly how defeating Malak in circumstances unknown while he was being charged by the unsubstantiated, unquantified, unspecified powers of the Star Forge puts him above Anakin.
For Nebaris,
2.) That's my point exactly, you dolt. Lucas' vision for the entire PT is "a more energized and a more faster version". Unless you're telling me that he only wanted that in TPM alone where there's only one duel.
3.) You seem to argue with logic, Lucas, definitions, and everything in between. Your arguments are nonsensical, and really - as the rest of the world has already acknowledged, PT > any other era. Do you know what "prime" means?
Main Entry: prime
Part of Speech: noun 1
Definition: best
"Best of the Jedi".
4.) The movie clip being on Episode 1's webdocs is irrelevant because of the context he stated it in, he was speaking as if he was in the movie or something, "...to see Jedi fighting (choreography) in the 'Prime of the Jedi' (best of the Jedi) I wanted it to be a more energized version and a more faster version". He compares the OT (as a whole) to what the PT will become, not just TPM. There was only one lightsaber duel, what the hell do you think? Lucas only wanted the one duel in TPM to be "more energized and faster"? No. As we see from the rest of the movies, they all have those properties. Your argument has already been failing you for about five or six replies now.
Originally posted by jollyjim311
How did Revan beat Malak? What form did he use? Did he get a cheap-shot? How much does the Starforge help?You can't just say that puts him above Anakin, because it doesn't.
Exactly. I suspect a response to go like this: "etc, etc, etc, etc", with no real answers or information.
Actually it does put him above Anakin. I don't have to quantify how much the SF helps because it is clear that you have to be extremely powerful to use it, and it empowered Malak to a certain extent. Now I see youre trying to use Sama's argument so let me clear it up for you. Revan was superior to Malak, even on the SF, even powered by 8 Jedi. So the simple fact remains, why get a cheap shot in when you're the more powerful one? No, it's more logical to say he defeated Malak in a climatic duel. Yoda is the only one in the PT era who is superior to Revan.
Originally posted by Motoko Sama
Sexy, tell me exactly how defeating Malak in circumstances unknown while he was being charged by the unsubstantiated, unquantified, unspecified powers of the Star Forge puts him above Anakin.
Well Sama for one, you asked me for proof that Revan was more powerful than Malak since you wanted to speculate that Revan cheated. Secondly out of the entire order of tens of thousands, only Malak and Revan had the ability to use the SF. "Others have tried to use it, and it corrupted them and destroyed them because they were not powerful enough". The fact that Revan became even MORE powerful when turning back to the light side, not LESS powerful, is a testament of his power. Now quantifying Malak's power is irrelevant unless of course you'd like to state that Anakin>Malak powered by the SF, and 8 Jedi.. I've already shown you that a Star Forge powered Malak>Dooku. By how much, we don't know. Could be by a lot or by a little. And Revan>Malak. So more likely than not, Revan>Anakin by a lot or a little.
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Actually it does put him above Anakin.
No, one unsubstantiated, unquantified, unspecified defeat does not equal Revan being > Anakin.
I don't have to quantify how much the SF helps
Okay, I will then. It only increases your powers for one minute, and it only give you 1/20 of your natural power. There, that assertion of how much the Star Forge gives you is as completely valid as you saying it increases power tenfold since you cannot prove a thing.
because it is clear that you have to be extremely powerful to use it,
And? We've established Malak is powerful (on par with Dooku), so I don't see what the hell this has to do with anything.
and it empowered Malak to a certain extent.
So did Vaapad to Mace Windu. I guess Mace Windu empowered by Vaapad = on par with Malak powered by the Star Forge? Since, of course, you haven't proved a thing on how much the Star Forge increases your power.
Revan was superior to Malak, even on the SF, even powered by 8 Jedi.
Proof? And doesn't he only drain them for life?
So the simple fact remains, why get a cheap shot in when you're the more powerful one? No, it's more logical to say he defeated Malak in a climatic duel.
Obi-Wan defeated Anakin in a "climatic duel", but he used cheap tactics. Firstly, appeal to probability for you to say "well, Revan > Malak, so he owned him without using cheap tricks", and when you say things such as "The superior always wins, etc." that's appeal to tradition.
You have little to no knowledge of the extent to which Revan beat Malak, and because of such, you cannot make a correct assumption.
Yoda is the only one in the PT era who is superior to Revan.
Well...if Yoda is superior to Revan, then how exactly is Revan > Anakin? Dooku was able to hold off Yoda even after fighting Obi-Wan and Anakin, using his Force powers, etc. ROTS Anakin also dropped the same Dooku that did all that, so it is reasonable to believe that Anakin can compete with Yoda as well, and therefore having a nice chance against Revan as well.
And Sexy, you do realize your entire argument falls apart because of this single statement:
By how much, we don't know.
Exactly, ergo you cannot tell me if it only gives him 1/20 of his power, or 9/10, and because of that your argument basically collapses due to lack of proof (and you stating "unless you're going to tell me Anakin > Malak/SF/8 Jedi" also falls because of that).
Which was to be demonstrated.
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Again
Malak=Dooku
SF Powered+8 Jedi Malak>>Dooku.. Either by a lot of by a little.
What if by a little then? Anakin firmly is > Dooku, and is "far more powerful" (Sidious' statement), so how exactly can you conclude Malak/SF > Anakin at all?
To make this quick: you can't.
Revan>SF Powered+8 Jedi Malak
Revan>Anakin by either a lot or a little.
Incomplete comparisons, and invalid proof.