ROTS Anakin and ROTS Obi Wan Kenobi versus Darth Revan and Darth Malak

Originally posted by GM Nebaris
Well you could have been clearer. I thought you were referring to the article.

Perhaps, but you know considering the movie clip was entitled "Prime of the Jedi", I'd thought you'd have caught the drift.

Anyway, when Gl stated 'Prime of The Jedi', he might have meant prime of the jedi order,

Oh god...if he would've meant the Order, he would've indicated as such. Considering he says things like "...to see Jedi fighting in the prime of the Jedi", I don't see how that means Jedi Order; in fact, the "to see Jedi" (plural/as a whole) and "in the prime of the Jedi" (highest quality) indicates such.

which could have a meaning interpreted to be just like The Golden Age of The Jedi.

Despite the entire PT not being the Golden Age of the Jedi...I seem to remember a war raging on throughout Episodes 2 and 3. Am I delusional? I always thought the Jedi Code had to do with peace, and thus their "Golden Age" would be such. Clearly the entire PT is not the Golden Age of the Jedi, ergo your interpretation is wrong.

He was also very vague when he said it,

How exactly was he "vague"? Quit making shit up, GM.

How is the entire article called "Prime of the Jedi", the movie clip itself being entitled "Prime of the Jedi", and Lucas saying "...fighting in the prime of the Jedi" vague exactly? It's clear. The PT is the highest quality, or excellence of Jedi.

so you can't just assume that it disputes many pieces of EU material.

Actually I can, it retcons anything ever said in EU, because George Lucas has, as I've said, The Ultimate Say™. If Lucas were to make a statement like "Exar Kun didn't receive Sadow's amulets", then it's true. Exar Kun then having amulets in TOTJ would then be retconned. So, unless you're saying George Lucas isn't an official source, to which I would reply "...", quit arguing.

Also, what EU material says that the Old Republic is the "prime of the Jedi", or a higher quality of Jedi exactly? What's that? None? Okay then.

There is also the fact that the whole video and article discusses choreography, and thus solely the movies.

How is what the movie clip shows relevant? Lucas made the statement. He said clearly "in the prime of the Jedi", meaning the PT is the prime (and no other era, whether OT/OJO, is), and there's nothing to dispute Lucas' own words.

It seems that they were completely disregarding the EU at the time imo.

Yes, your interpretations of things often conform to fit your views. However, like the rest of the world has already acknowledged: Lucas' word is gospel.

GM: It could mean a number of things.
Motoko: It's clear. The PT is the prime of the Jedi.
George Lucas: "...to see Jedi fighting in the prime of the Jedi."
Motoko: You were saying?

Great explanation Mokoto. Very witty.

Thanks, my point was proved.

The Jedi Order had a straight twenty five thousand years, you know...

Exactly, therefore the PT era Jedi are the highest quality of Jedi we see, according to Lucas, who has The Ultimate Say™ over everything Star Wars, m i rite?

'Despite the entire PT not being the Golden Age of the Jedi...I seem to remember a war raging on throughout Episodes 2 and 3. Am I delusional? I always thought the Jedi Code had to do with peace, and thus their "Golden Age" would be such. Clearly the entire PT is not the Golden Age of the Jedi, ergo your interpretation is wrong.'

The video was behind the scenes of not AOTC or ROTS, but TPM, which was part of The Golden Age of The Jedi... And I have already made it clear that the Golden Age of The Jedi was a time period between some point before TPM and up to The Battle of Geonosis.

'How exactly was he "vague"? Quit making shit up, GM.

How is the entire article called "Prime of the Jedi", the movie clip itself being entitled "Prime of the Jedi", and Lucas saying "...fighting in the prime of the Jedi" vague exactly? It's clear. The PT is the highest quality, or excellence of Jedi. '

GL mentions prime of the jedi twice (IIRC) and he used the term in a very casual vague way. He actually even looked kind of sleepy. And the way that the entire video talks about choreography, the way that Lucas compares what we as viewers saw in the OT and his vision for the PT (in terms of saber dueling) and the lack of reference to anything EU related leads me to believe that he was disregarding the entire of EU.

Originally posted by GM Nebaris
The video was behind the scenes of not AOTC or ROTS, but TPM,

Relevance? He was referring to the entire prequel trilogy, ergo any point your attempting to make collapses.

which was part of The Golden Age of The Jedi... And I have already made it clear that the Golden Age of The Jedi was a time period between some point before TPM and up to The Battle of Geonosis.

Relevance? He was referring to the entire prequel trilogy, ergo the point your attempting to make collapses.

GL mentions prime of the jedi twice (IIRC) and he used the term in a very casual vague way.

Originally posted by Motoko Sama
How exactly was he "vague"? Quit making shit up, GM.

He actually even looked kind of sleepy.

Oh god...great reasonings, GM. It's hilarity at best when you say I don't make logical claims, but GL "looking sleepy" (what the f*ck kind of bullshit is this anyways?) is perfectly reasonable evidence to support your ridiculous theories.

I truly must commend you on this point, it puts you at a new low for arguing.

And the way that the entire video talks about choreography,

Irrelevant misdirection. The video is about choreography, but Lucas makes it clear that the [PT] is the prime of the Jedi (not just TPM, the entire trilogy).

the way that Lucas compares what we as viewers saw in the OT and his vision for the PT (in terms of saber dueling)

His vision for the PT was the prime of the Jedi, and because of that, he wants to make the dueling more spectacular. That was made clear, and is understood by everyone except you.

and the lack of reference to anything EU related leads me to believe that he was disregarding the entire of EU.

And your lack of showing capable understanding and reasoning leads me to believe you are delusional. By this logic, nothing GL says has weight over the EU, because he very rarily mentions it anyways.

As the rest of the world has already made clear: George Lucas' words are gospel. He said the PT is the prime of the Jedi, ergo it is. You cannot argue with Lucas (and thus cannot win this argument). He made perfectly clear there is only one prime of the Jedi, and that would be...*gasp* the PT era.

"...we see Jedi fighting in the prime of the Jedi" - George Lucas.

Which was to be demonstrated.

Errrrg. I hate when i see battles like this. When people defending the movie characters use all the information that can possibly be found on the main characters (which is plentiful since they're the frigin main characters, duh) and then disclaim the opposing sides info ( which plentiful? not so much)

example: "revan defeated a SF powered Malak who is most likely
greater dooku"

" prove that revan didn't win by a lucky chance"

😠
oh that's just great. No one can prove exactly how revan vs. malak went because it's GAMEPLAY. How about giving a fair argument, and (to people defending the dlots) don't give them information that they can cast off as mere speculation. please. thank you.

Fact: The thread clearly states ROTS anakin. Anakin has two years of experience in lightsaber-to-lightsaber dueling with the sith, and has proved time and time again that he is ruled by emotion and often lets it take the better of him in battle by a.) killing a tribe of tusken raiders after his mothers death b.) Letting his fear of losing Padme' (his love interest) dominate his entire destiny c.) Allowing his anger at Obi-wan distract him and cost him the duel, among other things, lol and d.) causing his own demise by being dominated by his conflicting emotions of loyalty and love.

Fact: Revan born into a galaxy were both the darkside and lightside flourished, therefore was trained with the intention to teach him how to confront and subdue/disarm/defeat said Sith. He proved that he was a levelheaded warrior by a.) Holding his forces back (in some way) so that he could turn around in force against the looming true sith threat b.) not succumbing to the power of the SF c.) resisting bastilas' (his love interest) offer of great power and d.) killing his old friend who had succumbed to the darkside

Inferring from these FACTS i believe Revan and Malak would take this duel

Originally posted by Darth Solus
Errrrg. I hate when i see battles like this. When people defending the movie characters use all the information that can possibly be found on the main characters (which is plentiful since they're the frigin main characters, duh) and then disclaim the opposing sides info ( which plentiful? not so much)

So, wait - you hate when people argue with evidence (information) to back up their claims?

oh that's just great. No one can prove exactly how revan vs. malak went because it's GAMEPLAY.

Exactly, ergo because it's circumstances unknown his defeat over Malak, while impressive, is just that - unknown. So we don't know what happened at all, and you can't assume the logical route (Revan pwned Malak) because:

1.) Appeal to probability.
2.) Star Wars is known for having nonlinear and "out of the box" fights.

And here's some facts about your facts:

A.) Irrelevant. Shmi isn't around in this fight.
B.) Irrelevant. Padme isn't around in this fight.
C.) Irrelevant. Obi-Wan isn't around in this fight to play Padme's side love.
D.) Irrelevant. That was caused by other people, who aren't around in this fight.

I can see that when Anakin is thinking clearly, he utilizes his anger into power and remains somewhat stable (demonstrated against Dooku).

More facts about your facts:

Your first point is irrelevant. Jedi are trained to keep the peace, there wasn't even Sith around when Revan was in training, as Exar Kun had died before Revan was presumably even in training. And being "levelheaded" helps, though it doesn't mean an end all victory. Considering Obi-Wan was being tooled, and would've been killed by Anakin had he not been jumping around the terrain, and capturing the high ground.

Inferring from these FACTS i believe Revan and Malak would take this duel

So, because Revan is "levelheaded", and Anakin has been shown not to be (only on occasions that involved loves of his life) he wins? That's really the only facts you gave. I could just as easily argue that Anakin won't be moronic in this duel given his approach to Dooku:

"This time, we take him together..." - Obi-Wan.
"...I was about to say that" - Anakin.

Clearly learning from his mistakes.

One Question Mokoto: What do you think 'Prime of The Jedi' means exactly?

Originally posted by GM Nebaris
One Question Mokoto: What do you think 'Prime of The Jedi' means exactly?

Prime of the Jedi means just that, the best Jedi era we've seen. The best era of Jedi there is (in terms of power/physical/mental conditions), and I don't see how that's impossible seeing as everyone (whether off screen or on) is a "prodigy", "strong with the Force", "best swordsmen the Order has produced", etc.

You can argue it simply means "Golden Age", but that wouldn't be true. Why? Simple, Lucas was referring to the prequel trilogy as a whole; not one movie, and because of that I can infer that it doesn't mean "Golden Age" (peace and harmony) since throughout Episodes 2 and 3 there is clearly no peace. On top of the fact that the PT is about how the Empire rose to power - which as I've said twenty six times before - was not through peaceful negotiations.

Actually, he is discussing the choreography for TPM...

To me, the Prime of The Jedi would be the jedi at its highest point, which would imply relative peace and a democratic government with the Republic at the height of its power. Lucas is reffering to TPM when he states that it was 'The Prime of The Jedi'. The whole video and article was about TPM, not the whole PT, and TPM was part of The Golden Age of The Jedi, or Prime of The Jedi or whatever you want to call it. So sadly, 'The Prime of The Jedi' says nothing about the combat capabilities of the jedi. So unlucky, Mokoto.

O, gee..a direct reference to COMBAT when the Prime is mentioned when the top duelists the Jedi Order's ever known just happens to live. Right

What?

well malak and anakin could go either way because malak is(suposedly) on level with dooku. Even so revan kills obi-won and then if malak looses revan and anakin fight. Somehow i don't see anakin coming out alive. Also for the record Revan is one of the greatest sith of his time. The raktans talk about it. In the game everyone always talks about how powerfull revan is. Also, let's not get into another Malak= Dooku fight about what i wrote.I've had enough to shoot myself. Oh yeah we should really stay on topic to.

Is this thread still going on? I'll end it again..

Revan's team wins whether Revan fights Anakin or Obiwan..

Nice logic.

Actually I have provided a logical argument time and time again. Proving Revan as the top combatant of these 4 wasn't difficult.

F'ing Tdtd is back....

Oh great, yet another uneducated troll making baseless assumptions/accusations. I've yet to notice 1 NON troll accuse me of anything. What do I mean by non troll? Oh yes, a troll would be a useless member of this forum coming into a thread offering absolutely nothing.

You've proven nothing, Darth.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Oh great, yet another uneducated troll making baseless assumptions/accusations. I've yet to notice 1 NON troll accuse me of anything. What do I mean by non troll? Oh yes, a troll would be a useless member of this forum coming into a thread offering absolutely nothing.

Are you that embarassed about your former persona that you cant admit who you really are?