cap vs spider-man

Originally posted by marvelprince
So your trying to say Cap is in the same strength class as Hulk or Iron Man because he grappled them? 😕

No technique and speed.

Originally posted by shksprtx
None of what you have mentioned has to do with strength, necessarily. Cap is an expert fighter, and therefore an expert at using LEVERAGE to take down bigger and/or stronger opponents.

Yeah I know. I just took it for granted you would know that.

Originally posted by shksprtx

Cap is, and always has been, peak human. Just look at any canonical bio...

Bios dont mean ****.

Originally posted by Alfheim
I dunno about that. When Cap come out of the Ice he tackled down Iron man, giant man and Thor.

On one occasion Iron man and Cap grapple Hulk....nah Caps been downgraded.

As you know stats dont mean ****. Cap isnt peak human hes superhuman.

Stats do mean something, it's a manner of measuring the characters, because it's more consistent than alot more of high and low showings of PIS characters. Or else we'd be stuck with inconsistencies. If ALL of Cap's sources say he's peak, then he's peak. There's nowhere you'll show me he's stated as Superhuman. So he does feats, so what? All characters do, that's why the stats were made in the first place.

Grappling means shit because we all know if Hulk wanted to fight Cap back, he'd kill him in a hit and break his bones. It's called crap writing.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
That's terrible writing on the behalf of those characters, Cap has and will always be peak. Hulk and Ironman can easily do things that put cap to shame physically. NO more than Batman and his feats, he does better shit than Cap ever has, does that make him Superhuman? No, he never will be able to do the same thing with less effort, if he does it's bad writing.

It dont mean a damn thing. The explanation for him doing it is his skill. I guess Mantis knocking out Thor was bad writing as well eventhough it states in her bio that she has peak strength and has the skill to do it.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master

Stats do mean something, it's a manner of measuring the characters, because it's more consistent than alot more of high and low showings of PIS characters. Or else we'd be stuck with inconsistencies. If ALL of Cap's sources say he's peak, then he's peak. There's nowhere you'll show me he's stated as Superhuman. So he does feats, so what? All characters do, that's why the stats were made in the first place.

No they dont mean **** at all if they contradict what happens in reality. If sources say that a stag beetle can lift 5 times its own weight and in reality it can lift 10 times more then the sources dont mean ****, even if they all say that. Bios are theory, what happens in comics is reality. If reality contradicts theory, the theoery is rejected.

Namor has class 100 strength on this forum and its not because of the bios. On this forum his showings in comics take precedent.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master

Grappling means shit because we all know if Hulk wanted to fight Cap back, he'd kill him in a hit and break his bones. It's called crap writing.

Yeah we know Hulk can kill Cap, but the point is that Hulk has class 100 strength so being able to grapple him for a bit is a big deal.

P.S. Just so you know im not pissed thats just the way I talk sometimes.

Originally posted by Alfheim
It dont mean a damn thing. The explanation for him doing it is his skill. I guess Mantis knocking out Thor was bad writing as well eventhough it states in her bio that she has peak strength and has the skill to do it.

No they dont mean **** at all if they contradict what happens in reality. If sources say that a stag beetle can lift 5 times its own weight and in reality it can lift 10 times more then the sources dont mean ****, even if they all say that. Bios are theory, what happens in comics is reality. If reality contradicts theory, the theoery is rejected.

Namor has class 100 strength on this forum and its not because of the bios. On this forum his showings in comics take precedent.

Yeah we know Hulk can kill Cap, but the point is that Hulk has class 100 strength so being able to grapple him for a bit is a big deal.

Does this make Bats superhuman or just Cap? Are you going to use shitty crossovers to highlight your character, when it degrades others? The only reality is that comics are to entertain and sell, not be accurate.

Feats say Flash can get hit very easily by normal objects, common sense says otherwise.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
It isn't reality when it contradicts what people think of their favorite characters. Comics are written inconsistently under many different writers.

Cap has been doing superhuman feats for thousands of years. Cap has been consistently superhuman.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master

So Marvel thinks Cap is peak since his incarnation, but you don't?

No Cap has done superhuman feats for hundreds of years, therefore Marvel think hes superhuman.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master

Does this make Bats superhuman or just Cap?

Well the thread is Cap vs Spiderman, but if Batman consistently does superhuman feats consistently then hes superhuman.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master

Are you going to use shitty crossovers to highlight your character, when it degrades others?

The only reality is that comics are to entertain and sell, not be accurate.

Feats say Flash can get hit very easily by normal objects, common sense says otherwise.

Well ok lets analyse what you said.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
If ALL of Cap's sources say he's peak, then he's peak. There's nowhere you'll show me he's stated as Superhuman.

Therefore Cap should not be able to do the thing he does, right? Ok so heres a question for you if Mantis has peak human strength and her bio states that she can knock out Thor is it ok?

What about Namor knocking out the Hulk?

How i hate fanboyism...
Is it so hard to understand that Captain America will NOT be less-cool for losing this fight? Accept it!

Spiderman not only DODGES his opponents, he bounces around them and dodges bullets after they have been fired...!
Even if Captain America could block a few of Spidermans attacks, Spiderman would need ONE hit to win.

You would also die from a 15 tons punch!

Spiderman in a curbstomp.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Cap has been doing superhuman feats for thousands of years. Cap has been consistently superhuman.

No Cap has done superhuman feats for hundreds of years, therefore Marvel think hes superhuman.

Well the thread is Cap vs Spiderman, but if Batman consistently does superhuman feats consistently then hes superhuman.

Well ok lets analyse what you said.

Therefore Cap should not be able to do the thing he does, right? Ok so heres a question for you if Mantis has peak human strength and her bio states that she can knock out Thor is it ok?

What about Namor knocking out the Hulk?

Crossovers are really crappy evidence to begin with. If a character has skill that gives them a superhuman *power* to fight top tiers (like Karate Kid), that's different. But making them use earthly styles to topple godlike characters is another.

This isn't a comic book, it's a debating forum. He did what he did in a comic, that doesn't make it applicable here. If that's the case I can bring up Spiderman vs. Firelord. And you do know Spiderman beat Thor before too right?

Read my post above...

Originally posted by Alfheim

Well the thread is Cap vs Spiderman, but if Batman consistently does superhuman feats consistently then hes superhuman.

Batman has consistenly done Skyfather-level feats.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
No, the argument isn't whether Cap can do a superhuman feat in a comic book, I've already been over this. Human can do superhuman things in the right time. Cap can do a superhuman feat easier than a human can, but NOT easier than a Superhuman like Spiderman can (like tossing a Jeep into a window). He isn't on Spiderman's, or Hulk's physical level. He is the pinnacle of that. Comics are all about characters doing big things, so that hardly matter. Cap is characterized at the pinnacle of what a human is.

Yeah you're argument is that hes peak human and under duress can do superhuman feats. If thats the case why was he working out doing reps with 1100lbs easily and then doing gymantaicas afterwards. That means he can at least do 1500lbs with one rep. Is 1500lbs peak human or superhuman....furthermore:

Originally posted by Hercules

He was curling 500lbs in the Korvac saga! 99% of men on the planet can't BENCH 500lbs let alone do bicep curls with it!

Again this is superhuman strength because if he can curl 500lbs he can benchpress a superhuman amount.

So if he characterized is being peak human why does he do superhuman feats even when hes not under pressure. Please dont tell me about Scott Mendehelson he did one rep of 1008 lbs with a banch shirt. Peak human strength is around a 1000lbs.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master

I really find it degrading to characters like Cap and Batman to make them out to be superhuman, because it goes against what their character is all about. Using tactics and other means while turning their limitations into an advantage. Different writers have different interpretations of characters.

You need to stop comparing Batman with Cap. Cap has the SSS and Brubaker said Cap isnt Batman with a shield. So even the writers dont think hes peak human.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master

Crossovers are really crappy evidence to begin with.

Im quite sure Cap tackled Thor, Iron Man and Giant Man in the Avengers.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master

If a character has skill that gives them a superhuman *power* to fight top tiers (like Karate Kid), that's different. But making them use earthly styles to topple godlike characters is another.

Well first of all Cap is superhuman and hes an extremely talented superhuman. Whats the problem? Besides Mantis's skill are still earthly.

http://www.marvel.com/universe/Mantis

Her mastery of the Priests' martial arts, which focus on manipulation of nerve endings and pressure points, has enabled her to knock out beings as powerful

Mantis still has peak human strength and Thor can still lift Thousands and millions of tons, but its ok for her to do it but cap cant.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master

This isn't a comic book, it's a debating forum. He did what he did in a comic, that doesn't make it applicable here. If that's the case I can bring up Spiderman vs. Firelord. And you do know Spiderman beat Thor before too right?

So will I Batman sneaking up on Superman.

A mouth/face/nasal passage full of webbing will do wonders for Cap

Originally posted by Alfheim

You need to stop comparing Batman with Cap. Cap has the SSS and Brubaker said Cap isnt Batman with a shield. So even the writers dont think hes peak human.

Batman owns Cap.

Totally

Originally posted by Glazier
How i hate fanboyism...
Is it so hard to understand that Captain America will NOT be less-cool for losing this fight? Accept it!

Spiderman not only DODGES his opponents, he bounces around them and dodges bullets after they have been fired...!
Even if Captain America could block a few of Spidermans attacks, Spiderman would need ONE hit to win.

You would also die from a 15 tons punch!

Spiderman in a curbstomp.

Cap's 'bounced' around opponents too. Leaving 'after-images' is nothing impressive.

He's also dodged bullets from point blank after they were fired.

And he's taken much harder hits than twenty tons before, and came back begging for more.

Originally posted by Soljer

And he's taken much harder hits than twenty tons before, and came back begging for more.

😕 Cap's a masochist?

Originally posted by masterbruce
😕 Cap's a masochist?

A sadomasochist. 😈.

glutton for punishment. hmmm makes sense

Furthermore why are we even talking about Spiderman Vs Firelord on a Cap vs Spiderman thread?

The fact is Cap is superhuman even when hes just working out but because his bios say hes peak were supposed to take that serioulsy? Caps superhuman feats far outweigh peak human feats so hes not peak human? Furthermore if you're used to dodging bullets thats not even going to put you under duress and would be like a workout.

Another point Spiderman vs Firelord doesnt depend on bios. No where on SvFL does it say that. Considering that Cap is superhuman and has vast skill and an indestructible shield its not even a big deal that he can hurt class 100s. Even if you dont believe he can do it with his hands the edge of his shield is going to be similar to Wolverines claws.

Originally posted by Soljer
Cap's 'bounced' around opponents too. Leaving 'after-images' is nothing impressive.

Nothing impressive? 😂 Not like it shows that you were moving insanely fast or anything.

Originally posted by Soljer
He's also dodged bullets from point blank after they were fired.

And the bold is for what exactly? You make it sound like its a big deal. Like Spider-Man doesn't do that without even a thought.

Originally posted by Soljer
And he's taken much harder hits than twenty tons before, and came back begging for more.

And even moreso he's taken hits from lesser and gone down.

So basically Sol your with Alf in that Cap isn't the pinnacle of human perfection, but that he's a bonafide super human with super strength to grapple the Hulk, durability to shrug off multiple ton-punches and superior speed?

Originally posted by marvelprince
Nothing impressive? 😂 Not like it shows that you were moving insanely fast or anything.

And the bold is for what exactly? You make it sound like its a big deal. Like Spider-Man doesn't do that without even a thought.

And even moreso he's taken hits from lesser and gone down.

So basically Sol your with Alf in that Cap isn't the pinnacle of human perfection, but that he's a bonafide super human with super strength to grapple the Hulk, durability to shrug off multiple ton-punches and superior speed?

I said that leaving after images was nothing impressive because Cap's done it. Spiderman's done it. Daredevil's done it. Iron Fist's done it. Batman's done it. Nightwing's done it. I'm pretty sure Aunt May has left an after image or two now and again.

The 'after image' effect is a cool one, but it is meaningless.

I italicized Cap dodging bullets after they were fired because someone above me acted like it was a big deal for Spidey to do so. Cap's done similarly.

And, HELL NO, I'm not with Alfheim. That kid's a Cap fanboy to the Nth degree. All I'm arguing is that Cap is plenty fast enough to keep up with Spidey, and has the skills to put him down, even if he lacks the strength.

He isn't as fast as Spidey, but he isn't getting speedblitzed, either. He'll be able to fight, react, dodge, block, and hit Spidey, as Spidey will be able to do the same to him.

And as I said before, Cap won't be able to take very many of Spiderman's punches (though he won't be killed by a single blow), but, then again, Spiderman won't be able to take too many well placed nerve strikes, either.

Spiderman, 7/10. As I've said all umpteen pages of this damned thing.