Originally posted by Metalmanx
First scan: Notice how that without his shield, Cap would've died. Also notice how Spider-Man doesn't need a shield, but just dodges everything coming at him. I don't know how your brain works, but that makes Spidey faster/more agile/better reflexes.
but like he said he needed perfect timing for that feat... if he was too busy dancing around instead of just blocking.. well... 😬
Originally posted by Metalmanxagain.. not really fair... beast THINKS he came within a hairsbreath of killing cap...does that really mean anything if cap didn't admit it? 😕
Second scan: This doesn't help you at all here. Even though Cap is letting Beast hit him (yes, I can see that), Beast STILL comes "within a hairsbreath" of killing Cap. Beast. He's strong, yes. And Spider-Man is far stronger. If those few shots almost killed Cap, just think about what Spider-Man's punches will do. I mean, come on. Common sense.
cause I mean.. spiderman himself has already admitted that cap is too much for him to handle in h2h... and you seem to be arguing against that point just fine.. 😬 a little messed up rationale there... 😐
spiderman isn't FAR stronger than beast either.. 🤨 he's a bit stronger... not FAR by any means...
and again.. caps taken hits from scorpion, cosmic cube red skull, hyde, suped up skrulls, giant robots... etc etc etc... if cap survived those kinds of hits just fine then... well common sense right?
I mean seriously how can you even use that scan like you're attempting to use it when beast didn't even knock cap down? 😕
Originally posted by charlemagne9746yes spidey is fast enough to land that blow.. even though he's failed on several attempts... 😕
This fight may not be a best 10/10....Spidey is about Class 15 strength these days after the upgrade.....one solid haymaker to the jaw would more than likely kill Caps....and Spidey is fast enough to connect a blow like that. And with Spidey senses...how would Cap even land a blow anyway?
yes hed knock caps head off.. even though stronger more powerful apponents have tried and failed... 😕
yes, his spidersense would make him totally untouchable.. even though many many well trained fighters at caps level have taken advantage of the fact that spidey has no fighting skill and tagged him in the face.. even though cap nailed three shots on him that numbed his whole lower body in a count of 10 seconds... 😕
yes, spiderman would win 10/10... even though they've met up 3 times already and cap has a winning majority by 100%...
unless you count the webbing feat but then he's still got a winning record of 75%.. 😕
Originally posted by jinzinYou really honestly believe that has absolutely nothing to do with Captain America being "Captain America" TM Marvel? 😬
yes spidey is fast enough to land that blow.. even though he's failed on several attempts... 😕yes hed knock caps head off.. even though stronger more powerful apponents have tried and failed... 😕
yes, his spidersense would make him totally untouchable.. even though many many well trained fighters at caps level have taken advantage of the fact that spidey has no fighting skill and tagged him in the face.. even though cap nailed three shots on him that numbed his whole lower body in a count of 10 seconds... 😕
yes, spiderman would win 10/10... even though they've met up 3 times already and cap has a winning majority by 100%...
unless you count the webbing feat but then he's still got a winning record of 75%.. 😕
Originally posted by Alfheim
[B]Well I dont know who they are but I think you're blowing what I said out of proportion I said his abilities will help him against some superhumans not all. I thought cap could take Iceman until they showed me what Iceman could do.
IMO that list is really small...which A,B,C level superheroes do you think Capt can take?
*sigh* Im not being bad, but this is why sometimes i say people have not read the thread. Spidey is only far superior in terms of strength. If you look at Spidey's relexes they are superior to Cap's but you see Cap doing simialr stuff.
You have a pic of him dodging a computer. I can get a pic of Cap doing something similar. Some one posted a pic of Spiderman dodging the Hulk, I could have posted a pic of Cap dodging the Hulk, not as well as Spidey but still dodging the Hulk. It really is pointless posting pics its just *** fot tat.
To be fair a thunderclap from the Hulk should take both of them down...as for the Super Computer thing...it was predicting Spidey's every move...just like did to Tony did to Capt in Civil war. Spideys Agility and Reflexes are far greater than that of Captain America.
This is what I mean, I honestly dont think you get what im saying. Im not sure if you are aware of this but people in the real world actually practice magick. In the real world in the West most people spell it with a K on the end of magic. There is also a training for magick the same way as there is in martial arts, but they overlaps sometimes.Im not sure if its possible wether people can actually gain blantant supernatural abilities but im sure they can do extrodinary things ( photographic memory, extrodinary speed and agility...other stuff im not even going to talk about).
As far as I know nobody in the real world can do what Dr Strange does, nobody in the real world can do what Tony Starks can do with intelligence, nobody can do what Captain America does.
In the Marvel Universe talents compensate for no powers. Im tallking equal rights here. Dr Strange has his powers, Captain America has his amazing fighting ability...or ban Dr Strange threads and Iron man threads. hammer
But what you're forgetting is the human body has it's limits, and we have seen Capt been taken down. Also Capt hasn't shown anything that would suggest his martial arts grant him magical durability. His durability isn't anything great we've seen him been taken down before. As I said before snapping his neck is enough. Spidey has the speed to do this. But the real Spidey would probably attack from long range and take Capt down that way everytime.
BTW If that's the case Capt sould be able to take down all Class 100 characters via h2h.
Well this is news to me. Surely if we were trying to be realistic there would be walls.
Well it's always assumed that they are fighting in a neutral enviroment unles stated in the thread. You can add walls if you want, but that seems like it gives Spidey the Advantage.
Wolverine is a martial arts expert too, he would not punch like Spiderman. I am certain that Wolverine knows internal martial arts too he has studied alot of martial arts in Japan.
Spidey's durability and strength more then make up for this.
Depends on how super the guys is.
What if the guy is lift up a train super?
Fine. I am not even saying he would win the majority im just saying he is not going to go down like a wuss, but I think he could pull one or two wins.
1 or 2 wins? It may take time for him to go down but he'll go down especially when it's in Spidey's character to fight with long range attacks.
They dont teach you pressure points in biology. They do in martial arts, thats why some martial arts shops sell posters with all the weak areas of the body.
But they teach you about the nervous system and coranary arteries. I know of 6 places(not in the neck or chest) where if damaged/cu would cause immediate death.
Spidey does not fight like that he is not a martial arts expert he is a brawler. Why would he be looking for vulnerbale spots anyway, he would be looking to cave his ****ing face in.
That would probably work too, but a bloodlusted Spidey using common sense and knowing that Capt has studied him would probably smack Capt on the back of the neck with a Spidey punch.
Originally posted by Soljer
I hate to point this out, but Shaolin monks would be destroyed by someone who trained in, say...militech fighting. Many (monks) have acknowledged this fact, and claim that they do not study Martial Arts to be fighters, but rather, for the meditative peace, and inner equilibrium.
Who were they and how good were they?
Originally posted by Soljer
Hell, some Shaolin taught fighters already HAVE gone down against the likes of the Gracie's in the early days.
I dont belive it because the thing you got to undertsand is this; they are running a business and what happens in the fights is dependent on how much money they will get. They are trying to promote their style of fighting.
You use common sense if someone can let some one else punch them up and he only feels pinches how the hell is he going to get hurt. Another thing they teach you is to be rooted to the spot, so if someone trys to push you over they cant. So how hell are they gonna take them down?
Apparently there is the thing called the Empty Force where masters can hit people with the Chi alone. Ok this is what I saw the Qi gong master do....he was standing still in a stance then all of a sudden he loses his balance and goes FLYING backwards. There is NO WAY he could have got that momentum if there was not some force pushing him backwards, so eventhough ive never seen him do this taht is definetly some evidence that it could be done. No this is not something that cap can do but im just showing you how stupidly powerful some of these internal masters are.
How the Hell is a UFC guy gonna deal with that? Im sorry its BS. Ive seen them take down Kung Fu guys and Ninjas the guys were ****. There not going to let genuine masters in there. Oh yeah I know a friend who was talking to a guy who studied kung fu who wanted to enter the UFC.....you know what happened they didnt allow him in....you do the math.
Originally posted by Soljer
That said? A broken bone is a broken bone. It doesn't matter if you're a kid in a high school brawl, a street fighter, a PRIDE fighter, or a monk. A broken bone's a broken bone.
How is a UFC going to beat an internal master when they cant even hurt them? I will tell you this though internal martial arts take longer to develop than an external ones, but once you reach a certain level they dont stand a chance.
Originally posted by Metalmanx
First scan: Notice how that without his shield, Cap would've died.
Yes I know that. This is what I mean though. What did I say to you? I said he is using his agility and his shield. If he was using the shield alone and no agility he would be dead too. How on earth did you fail to miss the point, that the shield is not 6ft 2 in length, there is a whole massive area where the shield is not protecting him where he is not getting hit. Also in the second part he is not even using his shield....completely failed to notice it.
Originally posted by Metalmanx
Also notice how Spider-Man doesn't need a shield, but just dodges everything coming at him. I don't know how your brain works, but that makes Spidey faster/more agile/better reflexes.
You are stating the obvious. Spiderman is better but not by a great deal. Spiderman is not far superior to the Beast that is BS and I dont know where you got it from.
Originally posted by Metalmanx
Second scan: This doesn't help you at all here. Even though Cap is letting Beast hit him (yes, I can see that), Beast STILL comes "within a hairsbreath" of killing Cap. Beast. He's strong, yes. And Spider-Man is far stronger. If those few shots almost killed Cap, just think about what Spider-Man's punches will do. I mean, come on. Common sense.
Yeah but Cap has taking more damage than that. Like I said Iron shirt can be swithced on or off that would explain why he can take damage from more powerful people. The whole point of him doing that is to take as much damage as possible.
Spiderman has been hurt by less powerful people than Cap too. Im sorry if they come in close the chances are Cap will do all the punching anyway.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
IMO that list is really small...which A,B,C level superheroes do you think Capt can take?
*sigh* C'mon im not gonna go through a list. Lets put its this way powerful mutants with energy manipulation and psionic abilities will take Cap down. Iceman, Magneto, Jean Grey
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
as for the Super Computer thing...it was predicting Spidey's every move
So you dont think those robotic guns firing at Cap had computerised targeting systems.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
...just like did to Tony did to Capt in Civil war. Spideys Agility and Reflexes are far greater than that of Captain America.
I have already explained how Spiderman is not.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
But what you're forgetting is the human body has it's limits, and we have seen Capt been taken down. Also Capt hasn't shown anything that would suggest his martial arts grant him magical durability.
Your right all the time Cap gets punched up by supervillains does not suggest he has superhuman durability.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
His durability isn't anything great we've seen him been taken down before. As I said before snapping his neck is enough. Spidey has the speed to do this. But the real Spidey would probably attack from long range and take Capt down that way everytime.
This point is a waste of time. Cap has taken damage from weaker and stronger opponents so has Spiderman and countless supero heroes.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
BTW If that's the case Capt sould be able to take down all Class 100 characters via h2h.
*shrug* Maybe, but the fact of the matter is all talents in the real world are increased in Marvel such as magical abilities and intellect. Dr Strange threads are not banned neither are Iron Man threads im just saying this should go for Cap with his martial arts.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Well it's always assumed that they are fighting in a neutral enviroment unles stated in the thread. You can add walls if you want, but that seems like it gives Spidey the Advantage.
Not neccesarily. Cap can ricochet his shield of the ceilings and the walls, he could also attack Spiderman while Spiderman has to dodge his shield as well.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Spidey's durability and strength more then make up for this.
True. He does not have martial arts he has super strength.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
What if the guy is lift up a train super?
I think I know what your getting at Spiderman does not carry a sword.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
1 or 2 wins? It may take time for him to go down but he'll go down especially when it's in Spidey's character to fight with long range attacks.
Thats true. To be quite honest, Caps best chance is in close range and he would have to take him down quick. His best chance is to use the shield as a distraction if Spiderman goes long range. If spiderman get doistracted by the shield and Cap rushes him this could work. The longer the fight goes on the less chance Cap has.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
But they teach you about the nervous system and coranary arteries. I know of 6 places(not in the neck or chest) where if damaged/cu would cause immediate death.
Ok but you still need martial arts skills to attack the areas properly.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
That would probably work too, but a bloodlusted Spidey using common sense and knowing that Capt has studied him would probably smack Capt on the back of the neck with a Spidey punch.
I disagree. First of all he would have to get close, if he gets close its curtains. Secondly thats just not how he fights why would he try to snap his neck when punching and kicking is easier?
Look im going to leave it as this.
Dr Strange has magic. Iron Man has is armour. Cap has martial arts. All skills in the Marvel universe are increased by a huge amount. Deny Caps abilities deny Dr Strange his magic.
Oh right so you know how do Iron shirt and you have actually used it before?
I know how to do Iron shirt and I have used it on a minor level. I had a friend who did boxing who was twice my size and I allowed him to punch on my arms his punches were bouncing off me and he was getting really pissed off. So imagine what I could do if i was a master.
Whoever was teaching you was crap.
Anyway I dont like talking about this because ive actually had to stop training because I serioulsy injured myself. Yeah chi is good but if you push yourself too far like I did you may get a serious injury...anyway hope to get back into it next year *sigh*
Well I know Wing chun is not an internal martial art. Well this Shaolin instructor maybe he wasnt that good.
Did he have Iron shirt, if he was that good you should not even have been able to hurt him. because I have used Iron shirt in real life and I know it works, but not to the extreme degree
Anyway....
Dr Strange has magic. Iron Man has is armour. Cap has martial arts. All skills in the Marvel universe are increased by a huge amount. Deny Caps abilities deny Dr Strange his magic.
Originally posted by Alfheimdude punches to the chin hurt no matter who the hell u are, espcecially if the man is in your weight class
Well I know Wing chun is not an internal martial art. Well this Shaolin instructor maybe he wasnt that good.Did he have Iron shirt, if he was that good you should not even have been able to hurt him. because I have used Iron shirt in real life and I know it works, but not to the extreme degree
Anyway....
Dr Strange has magic. Iron Man has is armour. Cap has martial arts. All skills in the Marvel universe are increased by a huge amount. Deny Caps abilities deny Dr Strange his magic.
Originally posted by AlfheimDr Strange has magic. Iron Man has is armour. Cap has martial arts. All skills in the Marvel universe are increased by a huge amount. Deny Caps abilities deny Dr Strange his magic.
As I've said before, if all those increase, then so does Spiderman's superhuman powers. In the end, the power hierarchy remains exactly the same as it is in the real world: Cap may bemore skilled and faster/stronger than a normal peak human, but Spiderman is faster and stronger and more agile than a "normal" superhuman.
I just read your previous analogy about France and Spain. It's a pretty nice analogy, but it's just that, bare bones analogy. It has no real point to it.
Originally posted by King KAM
dude punches to the chin hurt no matter who the hell u are, espcecially if the man is in your weight class
I see what you mean but you have not done any internal training so you dont see where im coming from. If a person can stick a spear in their wind pipe something tells me they can take a blow on the chin.
Originally posted by Dinalfos
As I've said before, if all those increase, then so does Spiderman's superhuman powers. In the end, the power hierarchy remains exactly the same as it is in the real world: Cap may bemore skilled and faster/stronger than a normal peak human, but Spiderman is faster and stronger and more agile than a "normal" superhuman.
In terms of strength yes, but not in terms of agility and durability. The point I was trying to make is that cap is human but he is not far from Spidey in other aspects apart from strength. There is also the skill factor, you admit that peak humans dont have to be like peak humans in the real world. Therefore people who practice magic and genuises should therefore be more powerful than people in the real world, therefore so should Cap. This explains why Dr Strange can do what he does and so can Cap, they are different skills but both skill areas can give you the equivalent of super powers.
Originally posted by AlfheimIn terms of strength yes, but not in terms of agility and durability. The point I was trying to make is that cap is human but [B]he is not far from Spidey in other aspects apart from strength.
There is also the skill factor, you admit that peak humans dont have to be like peak humans in the real world. Therefore people who practice magic and genuises should therefore be more powerful than people in the real world, therefore so should Cap. This explains why Dr Strange can do what he does and so can Cap, they are different skills but both skill areas can give you the equivalent of super powers. [/B]
So are you saying Spidey is barely superhuman? That conflicts his stats and his feats. Again, peak humans don't necessarily have to be like real world peak humans.....but neither does Spiderman have to be like "real world Spidermen" If everybody is amped to a certain degree, then nothing changes. In the real world a peak human could never truly beat a superhuman(on their turf), so in the Marvel would they shouldn't either.
Dr Strange can do what he does because, contrary to our world, full blown magic actually exists in the Marvel World. Therefore, Strange can learn it. It's inherent to that universe only. It's not an improved skill(like cap's martial arts or Spiderman's super strength/speed/agility), it's an ALL NEW skill. But unlike magic, superhuman martial arts for a peak human is still contradictive, unless the hierarchy is adapted to this. But then cap's skill wouldn't be superhuman anymore. That should mean that REAL superhumans are still beyond peak humans, otherwise they would be peak humans themselves.
No matter how you look at it, superhuman > human. Even in the Marvel world. If it wasn't, the distinction between peak human and superhuman would not have been made at all. That's why I say that Cap operating above his real life levels is okay, but as soon as he proves himself capable of equaling or beating superhumans with feats he couldn't logically perform, it's not. Because the superhumans should be amped to the same degree, since the whole Marvel universe is an amplification.
did you guys know that cap can press lift 800lbs , that is noth even half a ton we have seen cap bench press 1100 lbs which is half a ton something his upper limit cant be a ton but less, if we were to get a boxxing bag that could measure fist imapct (i read in a magazine that mike tyson could create the pressure of about 400lbs with a punch from each fist) captain maerica is a trained combatant a we can safely assume tat each captain america fist can assert over 800lbs
spidey could press over 15 tons under stress just after avengers dissasembled,and his reflexes and speed and agility were 15 times greater than a average human , if spidey's imapct of each fist was recorded he coul at leat create the imapct of over 6 tons per fist
all of this has increased up too the point of his spider sense he can instinctively move immediately to his upgraded spidersense
after teh other series his speed, agility,reflexes,spider sense were all increased also we are not aware of the extent of his new strength as marvel have stated
marvel.com
whereas cap is the peak a human can be nothing more , just enchenced human not superhuman
considering all this spidey should win unless there is a bad write or a writer that does not want cap to lose
Originally posted by ankur29
did you guys know that cap can press lift 800lbs , that is noth even half a ton we have seen cap bench press 1100 lbs which is half a ton something his upper limit cant be a ton but less, if we were to get a boxxing bag that could measure fist imapct (i read in a magazine that mike tyson could create the pressure of about 400lbs with a punch from each fist) captain maerica is a trained combatant a we can safely assume tat each captain america fist can assert over 800lbsspidey could press over 15 tons under stress just after avengers dissasembled,and his reflexes and speed and agility were 15 times greater than a average human , if spidey's imapct of each fist was recorded he coul at leat create the imapct of over 6 tons per fist
all of this has increased up too the point of his spider sense he can instinctively move immediately to his upgraded spidersense
after teh other series his speed, agility,reflexes,spider sense were all increased also we are not aware of the extent of his new strength as marvel have stated
marvel.comwhereas cap is the peak a human can be nothing more , just enchenced human not superhuman
considering all this spidey should win unless there is a bad write or a writer that does not want cap to lose
Pretty sure those measurements are way off buddy.
I heard that Rocky Marciano had his punches measured in at close to l000 psi. Captain America is about six to seven times stronger then he was so he would be hitting much harder even if we don't take his his massive skill advantage into account. While on the other hand Spider-man wont be hitting anywhere near what he is capable of.
Originally posted by Dinalfos
So are you saying Spidey is barely superhuman? That conflicts his stats and his feats. Again, peak humans don't necessarily have to be like real world peak humans.....but neither does Spiderman have to be like "real world Spidermen" If everybody is amped to a certain degree, then nothing changes. In the real world a peak human could never truly beat a superhuman(on their turf), so in the Marvel would they shouldn't either.
Well in terms of durability he is not that tough he can still get hurt by gunfire.
In terms of strength he is alot stronger than Cap but there are loads of people stronger than Spiderman, if pushed I think cap could lift 5 tons but that would under extreme duress.
In terms of agility cap does a lot of stuff similar to Spidey...so all I can say is that superhumans cant be that fast in MU.
Yeah Spidey is superhuman but hes not Thor, Silver surfer or Doc Samson, hes not heavy weight.
Originally posted by Dinalfos
Dr Strange can do what he does because, contrary to our world, full blown magic actually exists in the Marvel World.
Huh??? Is magick a skill or a talent? Is technical know how a skill or a talent? Is martial arts a skill or a talent? All three examples are NOT powers they are skills and talents. The reason why there is full blown magic in the MU is because its the MU. The reason why Tony can build a suit is because its the MU, the reason why Dr Strange can do magic is beacuse its the MU then all of a sudden it does not aplly to Cap?
Ok I see so we have full blown genuises in the real world too that can build Iron Man suits?
Originally posted by Dinalfos
Therefore, Strange can learn it. It's inherent to that universe only. It's not an improved skill(like cap's martial arts or Spiderman's super strength/speed/agility), it's an ALL NEW skill. But unlike magic, superhuman martial arts for a peak human is still contradictive, unless the hierarchy is adapted to this. But then cap's skill wouldn't be superhuman anymore. That should mean that REAL superhumans are still beyond peak humans, otherwise they would be peak humans themselves.
Hey wait a minute do you think I mean David Copperfield? Stage magic? Thats not what im talking about, people practice magic like Dr Strange but on a far lesser scale. Alan Moore who writes Constantine is a self-professed magacian he belives in the super natural thats why he calls Constantine a real super hero. I cant prove anything obvously but I can only tell you what I have seen and heard from reliable sources. I personally do belive in the supernatural.
So why doesnt Tony Starks have an "all new skill"?
Originally posted by Dinalfos
No matter how you look at it, superhuman > human. Even in the Marvel world. If it wasn't, the distinction between peak human and superhuman would not have been made at all. That's why I say that Cap operating above his real life levels is okay, but as soon as he proves himself capable of equaling or beating superhumans with feats he couldn't logically perform, it's not. Because the superhumans should be amped to the same degree, since the whole Marvel universe is an amplification.
No this is what I said. Humans have talents that compensate for being human. Spiderman evnthough he is talented he does not have any extrodinary talents he is superhuman. People like Cap and Hawkeye are genuises at what they do which enable them to get the edge on superhumans.
I dont think Hawkeye can beat Spiderman but his "all new skill" may help him hit Spidey.
Magic is a skill.
Technical know how is a skill.
Martial arts is a skill.
All masters of skills get amped in the MU.
*mutters to himself* Its an all new skill.....