cap vs spider-man

Originally posted by Alfheim
Oh right so you know how do Iron shirt and you have actually used it before?

I know how to do Iron shirt and I have used it on a minor level. I had a friend who did boxing who was twice my size and I allowed him to punch on my arms his punches were bouncing off me and he was getting really pissed off. So imagine what I could do if i was a master.

Whoever was teaching you was crap.

Anyway I dont like talking about this because ive actually had to stop training because I serioulsy injured myself. Yeah chi is good but if you push yourself too far like I did you may get a serious injury...anyway hope to get back into it next year *sigh*

Alright, dude. You really need to stop with this Iron Shirt technique crap. Don't get me wrong. I, too, am very much into martial arts, so I know exactly what you're talking about when you refer to it. But these techniques aren't the same as they are in the movies. The monks still feel pain if there is a strong enough blow. Yes, they can shrug off minor attacks, but they are not invincibile. 🙄

Speaking of which, when was this brought up that Cap practices Iron Shirt technique? 😕

I know martial arts very well, so don't try to act like you're the only one. You can use your IS technique all you want, but if I wanted to hurt you, I would hurt you.

Beast right now, I believe, is in the 10 ton range. Spidey is in the 20+ ton range. How is that not far stronger? Sure, Cap didn't admit he was about to go down, but really, the image speaks for itself. A few more blows from Beast, and Cap would've been killed. Spidey wouldn't even need that many blows with his superior strength in order to take out Cap.

Agility:
Spider-Man>>>>Beast>>Cap.

I'm sorry, it's just true. You can keep tossing out your infamous "BS" line all you want. It's just the way it is.

Originally posted by Alfheim
In terms of strength yes, but not in terms of agility and durability. The point I was trying to make is that cap is human but [B]he is not far from Spidey in other aspects apart from strength. There is also the skill factor, you admit that peak humans dont have to be like peak humans in the real world. Therefore people who practice magic and genuises should therefore be more powerful than people in the real world, therefore so should Cap. This explains why Dr Strange can do what he does and so can Cap, they are different skills but both skill areas can give you the equivalent of super powers. [/B]

Arrg...read a Spider-Man comic.

Durability:
Spidey>>>>>>Cap. And there are scans to prove it somewhere (when villians complain as to how much it hurts to punch Spider-Man).

Agility/speed:
Spidey>>>>>>>>Cap. I'm tired of having to tell you this over and over again. Cap is HELLA agile and fast. I never denied that. Spidey is just in a completely different league of his own here, however.

Strength:
Spidey>>>>>>>>>Cap. At his most, I'd give Cap about 1,500 lbs of strength. Spidey is in the 20+ ton range. Do the math.

Cap is very well trained. One of the best there is. If you stripped away ALL of Spidey's powers and pit him against Cap, then sure Spidey loses. However, such is not the case. Spidey has all of his powers, which MORE than make up for Cap's superior fighting skill.

spiderman should just wack cap with a car or throw a few at him , im sure he cant move it off or dodge a few dozen

Originally posted by ankur29
spiderman should just wack cap with a car or throw a few at him , im sure he cant move it off or dodge a few dozen

Hell, even this is a viable option. If cars are available, that is. I don't know if the thread-starter specified any certain arena.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Alright, dude. You really need to stop with this Iron Shirt technique crap. Don't get me wrong. I, too, am very much into martial arts, so I know exactly what you're talking about when you refer to it. But these techniques aren't the same as they are in the movies. The monks still feel pain if there is a strong enough blow. Yes, they can shrug off minor attacks, but they are not invincibile. 🙄

I didn't say they were pay attention. So when the skinny guy Qi gong master said he let the big muscley guy lay into his chest he was making shit up, well anyway ive seen hil do other stuff I dont hink he was lying.

Anyway there are different levels the fact of the matter is it gives you resistance

Originally posted by Metalmanx

Speaking of which, when was this brought up that Cap practices Iron Shirt technique? 😕

I already explained.....I aint going to explain again. If you want to see my explanantion go over my post and read it properly.

Originally posted by Metalmanx

I know martial arts very well, so don't try to act like you're the only one.

Originally posted by Metalmanx

You can use your IS technique all you want, but if I wanted to hurt you, I would hurt you.

Thats relative, depends on how good you are and he is. Tell me what level is higheir than Iron Shirt whats it called? So your telling me you hang out with Shaolin Monks?

Originally posted by Metalmanx

Beast right now, I believe, is in the 10 ton range. Spidey is in the 20+ ton range. How is that not far stronger? Sure, Cap didn't admit he was about to go down, but really, the image speaks for itself. A few more blows from Beast, and Cap would've been killed. Spidey wouldn't even need that many blows with his superior strength in order to take out Cap.

Already explained, im not going to repeat myself.

Originally posted by Metalmanx

Agility:
Spider-Man>>>>Beast>>Cap.

I'm sorry, it's just true. You can keep tossing out your infamous "BS" line all you want. It's just the way it is.

Alright got any scans, to prove that Spidey is much faster than Beast?

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Arrg...read a Spider-Man comic.

Durability:
Spidey>>>>>>Cap. And there are scans to prove it somewhere (when villians complain as to how much it hurts to punch Spider-Man).

If I had a pound for everytime a superhero or supervillain had hit Spiderman and not complained I would be a millionaire. Then you want to show me one example of some one complaining......nice one.

So you want me to get a scan of Shang Chi punching Spiderman? Those scans dont mean nothing. the problem with scans is they can always prove or disprove something.

Originally posted by Metalmanx

Agility/speed:
Spidey>>>>>>>>Cap. I'm tired of having to tell you this over and over again. Cap is HELLA agile and fast. I never denied that. Spidey is just in a completely different league of his own here, however.

What have you got? Spidey dodges lasers, Cap dodges lasers. Spidey dodges bullets, Cap dodges bullets. Spidey dodges the Hulk, Cap dodges the Hulk. Spidey dodges computerised targeting system, Cap dodges computerised dodging system....and?

Originally posted by Metalmanx

Strength:
Spidey>>>>>>>>>Cap. At his most, I'd give Cap about 1,500 lbs of strength. Spidey is in the 20+ ton range. Do the math.

Originally posted by Metalmanx

Cap is very well trained. One of the best there is. If you stripped away ALL of Spidey's powers and pit him against Cap, then sure Spidey loses. However, such is not the case. Spidey has all of his powers, which MORE than make up for Cap's superior fighting skill.

Yeah but as I said before.....

Magic is a skill.

Technical know how is a skill.

Martial arts is a skill.

All masters of skills get amped in the MU.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Hell, even this is a viable option. If cars are available, that is. I don't know if the thread-starter specified any certain arena.

No its not its a neutral envinronment. Anyway Cap has dodged people throwing cars at him anyway.

So instead of having a proper debate with me, you're just going to say that you've already said it.

Eh. Whatever, dude.

I shouldn't have to provide scans to support common sense and fact.

By the way, the durability thing wasn't just once. It's happened a few times in Spidey's comics, where villians hit him and hurt themselves in the process. Scorpion is just the best example, since he's even stronger than Spidey.

And no, I can't HANG with a Shoalin Monk. However, if one were to stand there and let me hit him, even with his Iron Shirt technique, I could hurt him nonetheless. I know how to hit to really hurt.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Well in terms of durability he is not that tough he can still get hurt by gunfire.

In terms of strength he is alot stronger than Cap but there are loads of people stronger than Spiderman, if pushed I think cap could lift 5 tons but that would under extreme duress.

In terms of agility cap does a lot of stuff similar to Spidey...so all I can say is that superhumans cant be that fast in MU.

Yeah Spidey is superhuman but hes not Thor, Silver surfer or Doc Samson, hes not heavy weight.

So Cap is a superhuman? Fine by me, but then Marvel should just stop beating around the bush and make it official. Because right now, it's sounding an awful lot like PIS. THAT's the real reason why Captain A. does the stuff he does while being peak human. I hate to use the word PIS, but it really is. You see, I would be more forgiving if Cap's showings were consistently high. But sometimes, he really IS acting and fighting like a peak human. He's only scaled up when fighting superior opponents.

The problem with your argument is that peak humans aren't consistently portrayed as people who can hang with superhumans. Some of them are (nearly) as good as Captain, yet they couldn't possibly survive an encounter with a bloodlusted Spiderman. Daredevil is basically the same story as captain. He's only on Spidey's level when Spiderman allows him to be. But in truth, he never should be a match for him. But apparantly, some Marvel writers choose to ignore their own rules. Including some of Spiderman's own writers, ofcourse, when he's beating characters he logically shouldn't.

And no, Spidey is not Thor. True. But this only means that Spidey would have to hit with more force to kill off Captain with one blow. But that can be done. Easily. Especially since characters like Thor could splatter both Spiderman and Captain all over the place with a solid backhand. So logically, Spidey himself would have to get a good solid hit with his fist. No problem, since he's also a lot faster than Captain.

Hey wait a minute do you think I mean David Copperfield? Stage magic? Thats not what im talking about, people practice magic like Dr Strange but on a far lesser scale. Alan Moore who writes Constantine is a self-professed magacian he belives in the super natural thats why he calls Constantine a real super hero. I cant prove anything obvously but I can only tell you what I have seen and heard from reliable sources. I personally do belive in the supernatural.

So why doesnt Tony Starks have an "all new skill"?

No, I mean ACTUAL magic. Personally, I don't really believe in supernatural stuff, though I tend to keep an open mind. Still, I was talking about true magic in the classic sense of the word.

Tony's skill is all cool, but there are real life people who can design shields, suits and other forms of protection. Just not to the same degree. That's the amplification I was talking about. The difference, however, is that Stark's genius pales in comparison to some other humans and especially superhumans like Thanos, as Marvel kept it relative and proportional. Or at least they tried. Initially.

No this is what I said. Humans have talents that compensate for being human. Spiderman evnthough he is talented he does not have any extrodinary talents he is superhuman.[B] People like Cap and Hawkeye are genuises at what they do which enable them to get the edge on superhumans.

I dont think Hawkeye can beat Spiderman but his "all new skill" may help him hit Spidey.

Magic is a skill.

Technical know how is a skill.

Martial arts is a skill.

All masters of skills get amped in the MU.

*mutters to himself* Its an all new skill.....

Well, Spiderman CAN be an exceptionally quick thinker(strategically), but yeah, he's not as experienced as Captain. Fortunately, his intellectual intelligence allows for some compensation as well. But anyway, Magic is a skill in the Marvel universe because it's presence and basic outlining are abundantly clear. Not so much with "peak humanism"( 😛 ). What does it even mean in the MU? There are no real rules, except that it represents the pinnacle of human perfection. It says nothing about speed, strength or whatever. Just that it's top level human.

What I'm trying to say is that Dr. Strange's skills are recognized as supernatural, because "supernatural magic" is a pleonasm. However, there's no such thing as supernatural peak humanity. Which would be an oxymoron. Cap's skills aren't considered supernatural, so apparantly peak humanity is the end of the line for non-super powered talents. Don't look at me, this is what Marvel has established for their characters.

Genius or not, Captain CANNOT win against superhumans on their own turf. I have no problem with Captain finding a way to beat someone a la Batman(you know, with some prep time) or a special weapon or whatever, but when he's fighting Spiderman at his own game, then it tends to get ridiculous.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
So instead of having a proper debate with me, you're just going to say that you've already said it.

Eh. Whatever, dude.

What you want me to do? You know how irritating it is to make important points and for people to ignore it, especially when it takes you ages to write out a post and you're like answering three people at the same time. Ok maybe later but this thread is starting to irritate me.

Bruv, when I showed you that pic of Cap dodging the lasers, you immediately focused on the shield, you forgot about the great BIG unprotected section of Cap AND the second pic with him not using the shield.

If had not pointed out that Cap allowed himself to be beaten, you would have probably said "Look Beast is beating up Cap".

Originally posted by Metalmanx

By the way, the durability thing wasn't just once. It's happened a few times in Spidey's comics, where villians hit him and hurt themselves in the process. Scorpion is just the best example, since he's even stronger than Spidey.

So what. What am I supposed to do with that? You tell me what im supposed to do with that when you can get pics of people weaker than Cap punching up Spidey? For crying out loud Scorpion is supposed to be stronger than Spiderman so that does not make any sense. well ok fairs fair if Spidey can get hurt by Shang chi, then he should get mullered by the Scorpion, same principle as Cap and the Beast.

Originally posted by Metalmanx

And no, I can't HANG with a Shoalin Monk. However, if one were to stand there and let me hit him, even with his Iron Shirt technique, I could hurt him nonetheless. I know how to hit to really hurt.

Oh right so you're just speculating. They can get hit in the throat with spears, hit by swords and clubs, allow themselves to be hit in the wind pipe and you who cant hang with the shaolin monks is telling me you can hurt them.....I dont think so some how.

I also said that there is a highier level above Iron Shirt.

Originally posted by Dinalfos

What I'm trying to say is that Dr. Strange's skills are recognized as supernatural, because "supernatural magic" is a pleonasm.

Are you saying that magic and the supernatural are just simply accepted facts in the MU, so its no big deal sort of thing. Thats just how it is. Sorry about this.

Originally posted by Alfheim
What you want me to do? You know how irritating it is to make important points and for people to ignore it, especially when it takes you ages to write out a post and you're like answering three people at the same time. Ok maybe later but this thread is starting to irritate me.

Bruv, when I showed you that pic of Cap dodging the lasers, you immediately focused on the shield, you forgot about the great BIG unprotected section of Cap AND the second pic with him not using the shield.

If had not pointed out that Cap allowed himself to be beaten, you would have probably said "Look Beast is beating up Cap".

So what. What am I supposed to do with that? You tell me what im supposed to do with that when you can get pics of people weaker than Cap punching up Spidey? For crying out loud Scorpion is supposed to be stronger than Spiderman so that does not make any sense. well ok fairs fair if Spidey can get hurt by Shang chi, then he should get mullered by the Scorpion, same principle as Cap and the Beast.

Oh right so you're just speculating. They can get hit in the throat with spears, hit by swords and clubs, allow themselves to be hit in the wind pipe and you who cant hang with the shaolin monks is telling me you can hurt them.....I dont think so some how.

I also said that there is a highier level above Iron Shirt.

Dude, there's a little thing called "Copy & Paste" that you could've utilized to make that much easier on yourself.

I was focusing on the shield only to prove a point. I know very well that Cap can dodge lasers. He's that good, I know this. But there are also many instances where he would be dead if not for that shield to protect him, no matter how good his agility is. My argument was that Spidey, on the other hand, can just plain evade more laser/bullets/projectiles/whatever than Cap can and without a shield. He is faster, more agile, and has much faster reflexes.

And no, I can read comics. I saw that Cap was letting Beast hit him. Doesn't change the fact that Beast's strength was mauling Cap. And Spidey is a lot stronger.

I can't provide the pictures right now because I forgot what thread they're in. They may be in the Wolverine vs. Spider-Man thread, I forget.

By the by, have you seen these Shaolin Monks in action? I mean like, in real life? Not on TV? Have you seen a monk take a spear to the throat in real life? If so, that is impressive.

Originally posted by Alfheim
I didn't say they were pay attention. So when the skinny guy Qi gong master said he let the big muscley guy lay into his chest he was making shit up, well anyway ive seen hil do other stuff I dont hink he was lying.

Again, strength difference here is nothing when compared to Cap and Spidey. Besides if everyone here accepts that Cap does not use this technique why is it still being debated?

Originally posted by Alfheim
Alright got any scans, to prove that Spidey is much faster than Beast?

This is pretty silly. You have scans to prove that Cap is close in speed to Beast. How does that equate to Cap being close in speed to Spider-Man? Your the one that keeps saying Spider-Man isn't much faster than Cap so the burden of proof rests on you. Prove that Spider-Man isn't much faster than Beast. Until you do I have handbooks and the general knowlegde that Spider-Man is the fastest in Marvel (below speedsters of course). Also since Beast and Nightcrawler are about the same speed level how about the times Spider-Man has punked Nightcrawler?

Originally posted by Alfheim
If I had a pound for everytime a superhero or supervillain had hit Spiderman and not complained I would be a millionaire. Then you want to show me one example of some one complaining......nice one.

I don't really understand this point here

Originally posted by Alfheim
So you want me to get a scan of Shang Chi punching Spiderman? Those scans dont mean nothing. the problem with scans is they can always prove or disprove something.

And for each scan I can show you another of some other street leveler remarking "He's too fast"

Originally posted by Alfheim
What have you got? Spidey dodges lasers, Cap dodges lasers. Spidey dodges bullets, Cap dodges bullets. Spidey dodges the Hulk, Cap dodges the Hulk. Spidey dodges computerised targeting system, Cap dodges computerised dodging system....and?

Lets see, Cap couldn't dodge Colossus, She-Hulk he's been shot many times before. Lets not forget the times normal humans have hit him, not even MA guys.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Magic is a skill.

Technical know how is a skill.

Martial arts is a skill.

All masters of skills get amped in the MU.

Agreed. But Cap is still leagues below Spidey even if he is leagues above Jet Lee

Originally posted by Metalmanx

By the by, have you seen these Shaolin Monks in action? I mean like, in real life? Not on TV? Have you seen a monk take a spear to the throat in real life? If so, that is impressive.

In all fairness no, but you have to bare in mind I have done it on a minor level (not in the winpipe) and I was just a beginner. I knew a Qi gong master who was even better than me who stated he could do greater stuff and I know there are people above his level. Eventhough I never saw him stick a spear in his windpipe, I saw the "empty force". He was standing in a stance then suddenly he went flying backwards into the wall, it was as if something invisible pushed him. Yeah I know thats not an example of sticking a spear in the windpipe im just saying adding up what I could do on a minor level and what this Qi gong master could do means it must be possible. He even said that the Shaolin Monks are not even that good.......he implied that the Taoists were the best.

Originally posted by marvelprince
Again, strength difference here is nothing when compared to Cap and Spidey. Besides if everyone here accepts that Cap does not use this technique why is it still being debated?

Actually im not sure about that. I have been looking at the Shang Chi respect thread he categorically used the word "chi", which is the energy needed for Iron Shirt. Shang Chi was not using it in the form of Iron Shirt but since Cap is a better fighter than Shang Chi, its not far fetched for him to be able to use it. I think alot of people also regard both Batman and Captain America to be about level pegging on fighting. I do have an issue of Batman using Chi like Iron shirt to defend against and attack, if Batman can do it I dont see why Captain America cant. I simply think that the writers may not even know what chi is so they have never had him use it, but if Captain America is one of the finest combatants on the earth it is liekly he knows it.

Originally posted by marvelprince

This is pretty silly. You have scans to prove that Cap is close in speed to Beast. How does that equate to Cap being close in speed to Spider-Man?

Well my logic is that since I considered Beast to be nearly as fast as Spiderman, Cap would be slower than Spiderman but not by a great deal because he is almost as fast as the Beast.

Originally posted by marvelprince

Your the one that keeps saying Spider-Man isn't much faster than Cap so the burden of proof rests on you.

Already have you have scans of Cap doing similar feats of agility to Spiderman on a lesser scale. Obvoulsy your just not having none of it.

Originally posted by marvelprince

Prove that Spider-Man isn't much faster than Beast. Until you do I have handbooks and the general knowlegde that Spider-Man is the fastest in Marvel (below speedsters of course).

I thought you said handbooks are unreliable? Ok nevermind..... 🙄

Originally posted by marvelprince

Also since Beast and Nightcrawler are about the same speed level how about the times Spider-Man has punked Nightcrawler?

Nightcrawler maybe fast but he has even less fighting skills than Spiderman . Even the punisher has punked nightcrawler, so that dont mean jack

Originally posted by marvelprince

I don't really understand this point here

*sigh* Dear oh dear.......

Originally posted by marvelprince

And for each scan I can show you another of some other street leveler remarking "He's too fast"

So the logical conclusion is that some humans with skill can beat Spiderman.....do the math.....ggeeezzzz

Originally posted by marvelprince

Lets see, Cap couldn't dodge Colossus, She-Hulk he's been shot many times before. Lets not forget the times normal humans have hit him, not even MA guys.

Similar stuff has happened to Spiderman so that dont mean a damn thing.

Originally posted by marvelprince

Agreed. But Cap is still leagues below Spidey even if he is leagues above Jet Lee

Of course thats why it has been stated that Cap is a better fighter than Shang Chi and Shang Chi was giving Spiderman hell.

2.http://img105.imagevenue.com/img.ph...b77_spidey2.jpg

3.http://img129.imagevenue.com/img.ph...b58_spidey3.jpg

4.http://img125.imagevenue.com/img.ph...8cc_spidey4.jpg

5.http://img106.imagevenue.com/img.ph...200_spidey5.jpg

Ok you can say Spiderman was holding back..but if Shang Chi can dodge his webbing, what do you think Caps gonna do. Basically it doesnt matter how fast or strong Spiderman is when he comes up against the best martial arts he gets his head kicked in, and even when he went to web him Shang chi dodged some of it.

http://img465.imageshack.us/my.php?...aightup18yi.jpg
http://img152.imageshack.us/my.php?...aightup28rw.jpg
http://img465.imageshack.us/my.php?...aightup36xw.jpg
http://img465.imageshack.us/img465/...aightup41yx.jpg
http://img217.imageshack.us/my.php?...aightup54jk.jpg
http://img159.imageshack.us/my.php?...aightup64zg.jpg
http://img217.imageshack.us/my.php?...aightup71gz.jpg

😮 ..nuff said. Taskmaster does not have superhuman powers either. Look how much hassle Spiderman had before he got hold of him.

Just to make things clear

http://individual.utoronto.ca/will/taskmaster/146-19.jpg

Taskmaster does it again.

You have all these peak humans beating up untalented superhumans. What does this mean? Basically extreme skill can beat superhumans. It keeps happeing time and time again and even if you look at the forum rules one of the criteria for SvFl is if a hero does something he rarely does.

You have people who can fly, you got people who can lift a hundred tons and you have extremely talented humans beating on superhumans its an established fact that it can be done. Thats why Spiderman is not a martial art expert and Cap is his skills help him to fight Spiderman.

When I read Civil War one they were giving you a hint. Somebody asked Cap about Spiderman's new armour, Cap started going into detail about it....and further more Spdierman also stated that Cap had studied him. Cap has fought Spiderman before, but this time he had to study him to keep up with the armour. Spiderman had new armour Cap had more knowledge.

It also cant be about popularity. Has there been a Shang Chi movie? Has there been a Taskmaster movie? Has there been a Shang chi animated series? Has there been a Taskmaster animated series. Do both characters have a comic book of their own which has been going on for decades? The answer to all these questions is NO.

So why does Spiderman keep getting beaten up by street levellers? Is it because they just want to piss off the Spiderman fans? It cant be obvoulsy this has to be an established fact of the Marvel Universe.
I repeat this is why humans have such high levels of talents..because they dont have powers.

You dont like it...
Take away Iron Man's armour on all vs threads.
Take away Dr Strange's powers on all vs threads

You dont because you already know that its an established fact that talents can substitutes be for powers.

P.S. Dont even think about giving me a pic of Taskmaster not being able to hurt Spiderman. Do the math. Obvously Taskmaster got better

http://img465.imageshack.us/my.php?image=beatingspidermanstraightup18yi.jpg
http://img152.imageshack.us/my.php?image=beatingspidermanstraightup28rw.jpg
http://img465.imageshack.us/my.php?image=beatingspidermanstraightup36xw.jpg
http://img465.imageshack.us/img465/9219/beatingspidermanstraightup41yx.jpg
http://img217.imageshack.us/my.php?image=beatingspidermanstraightup54jk.jpg
http://img159.imageshack.us/my.php?image=beatingspidermanstraightup64zg.jpg
http://img217.imageshack.us/my.php?image=beatingspidermanstraightup71gz.jpg

Ok try these Urls again taskmaster making a fool out of Spidey..

http://individual.utoronto.ca/will/taskmaster/

and doing it again.

Try Spidey Vs shang chi again
http://img105.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=e1b77_spidey2.jpg
http://img129.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=8eb58_spidey3.jpg
http://img125.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=038cc_spidey4.jpg
http://img106.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=a7200_spidey5.jpg

Is Spidey going all out and punching w/full force & speed? If not, that doesn't apply here right?

Well he may not be punching at full force but he is moving as fast as he can.

Even if you want to forgot about Shang Chi, look how much grief the Taskmaster gives Spidey before he gets even close to him.

Another point is that Shang Chi can dodge Spiderman's webbing Cap will do it even better.

You cant keep making excuses for him, he lost against Taskmaster.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Well he may not be punching at full force but he is moving as fast as he can.

Even if you want to forgot about Shang Chi, look how much grief the Taskmaster gives Spidey before he gets even close to him.

Another point is that Shang Chi can dodge Spiderman's webbing Cap will do it even better.

You cant keep making excuses for him, he lost against Taskmaster.

Agree'd, Although Spidey is very fast and agile, I think we push him a little to far.

ok i hate to interrupt but can anyone send me a dictionary link or someithng? i would love to get in on the action but i am lost in translation(jobbing, ect) so if any one could help it would be much appreciated(cant spell)

Originally posted by Apolloknight
Agree'd, Although Spidey is very fast and agile, I think we push him a little to far.

Damn straight for me these scans finish it for me, its show you how devastating skills can be to superhumans.

Shang Chi has also been punched in the face by one of Ulik's trolls and was able to hurt them.

Originally posted by marvelprince

Until you do I have handbooks and the general knowlegde that Spider-Man is the fastest in Marvel (below speedsters of course).

I was looing through the Thing respect thread and I saw this

Originally posted by olympian
Cage its a great example why handbooks are mostly garbage. He was a 3 ton level class in those at the time, but here its shown to fight the Thing and doing it good for awhile.

Hits the nail on the head.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
You really honestly believe that has absolutely nothing to do with Captain America being "Captain America" TM Marvel? 😬

I mean are we about to discredit all of superman's feats for being more of the same to DC? 😬