cap vs spider-man

Originally posted by marvelprince
The condescending tone and the regretful demeanor are obvious signs of him not even trying. Just looks at the context.

And yet Spider-Man was taking down Cap, Patriot and others in CW3 without breaking a sweat. Again how did Cap kick Spider-Man's ass. The dialogue made it seem like Cap was on top but who standing at the end, didn't Cap lose his shield too? How exactly is that Cap kicking Spider-man's ass?

Hmmm...

Originally posted by Soljer
http://img3.freeimagehosting.net/image.php?f2c9889c23.jpg

http://img3.freeimagehosting.net/image.php?fd96c32deb.jpg

http://img3.freeimagehosting.net/image.php?1025084a04.jpg

http://img3.freeimagehosting.net/image.php?c3126b560f.jpg

http://img3.freeimagehosting.net/image.php?8198d2fc17.jpg

http://img3.freeimagehosting.net/image.php?edecd0b53c.jpg

Yes Spider-Man was taking "down" Cap and Patriot but none of them actually went to the ground they get punched once and you call that getting taken down. But Captain America does this and it only "seems" like he was winning... He lost his shield? yes but, he did that on purpose to distract Spidey to get in the kidney punch that had Spider-Mans lower body numb and him kneeling on the ground holding his side and realizing he didnt get one punch in the whole fight. and it only "seems" like he was winning..... 😐

Originally posted by badabing
http://img215.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan0019qi3.jpg
http://img208.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan0020tp2.jpg

aceel i read a few pages back and you said cap was 10X faster than humans

well if his can run amile just over a minute (that is not 60mph)it is roughly 6 times fater than a human

or if we consider teh average speed of a healthy human 15mph that is 4 times faster so dont be to generous towards cap

as for apollo knight..spidey states his own reflexes as 40 times greater than an avergae human , he has increased since then twice once in avengers diassasembled and once in the other

spidey's speed is not be 400mph(who said it is?) but it can definately be over 60mph

a safe assumption wold be over 100mph(this does neccesarily does not mean 150mph)his speed woudl be equal to rhino(100mph) if not greater but it is certainly geater than 60mph

Originally posted by thedude1948
It seems like you forgot to scan what happened on the very next page...
http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/4029/scan1ry6.jpg
Yes Spider-Man got his ass kicked twice by Cap in the Civil War so far. Also looking at the scans it doesnt look like Iron-Man was going easy on Cap. Just more no evidence speculation...
http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/8812/scan2su4.jpg
I am done with this thread because there really isnt a debate anymore just fanboys. Cap has beat Spidey twice now and until Spidey beats Cap in a comic there really is nothing to talk about.

Spiderman did beat Firelord, it happened, so that means its always accurate. On the speed issue, who says whether he can or can't go as fast as he did, what are we using to judge his speed now. If I say stats, someone is going to go by "Spiderman said that cap...", but if I go by what Spiderman said, all of the sudden it doesn't count anymore, when it makes him look good? Spiderman is intelligent, and his reflexes have increased, but the Spiderman haters in here can't see that, they just use his lowest showings to suit their arguments, constantly neglecting the points time and time again when he goes up against other Marvel top notch players. Then accepting it with Captain America. Is it that hard to debate with logic around here?

And only the biggest fanboy and moron thinks Cap is catching missles and beating Iron Man and is not worth even debating with.

And with that, the thread ends. Dismissed.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
So if you are only going to go solely by what happened, tell me, why even bother debating.

Listen, mate at least the scans he posted actually happened in the MU. You put some scans up of some hypothetical situation concerning Spidey which never even happened. Then you started quoting the handbook which everyones knows is inaccurate. C'mon man....

Originally posted by Tha C-Master

Spiderman did beat Firelord, it happened, so that means its always accurate.

Yes we know about SvFL 🙄 . But are you aware that SvFL says this:

"For example, Spiderman defeating a herald of Galactus is a case of the SvFL exemption; however, Batman being able to sneak up on Superman is not because he has done so frequently under different writers. "

Therefore according the rules Cap should be able to take Spidey in combat. Fair enough the battle in CW was not conclusive but it shows Cap can give Spidey problems.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master

On the speed issue, who says whether he can or can't go as fast as he did, what are we using to judge his speed now.

I dont even care about that.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master

If I say stats, someone is going to go by "Spiderman said that cap...", but if I go by what Spiderman said, all of the sudden it doesn't count anymore, when it makes him look good? Spiderman is intelligent, and his reflexes have increased, but the Spiderman haters in here can't see that, they just use his lowest showings to suit their arguments, constantly neglecting the points time and time again when he goes up against other Marvel top notch players.

Look if Spiderman says I cant take Cap in H2H and says "Im numb below the waist", does it mean I can take Cap in H2H and "Im NOT numb below the waist"? So basically Spiderman means the opposite of what he says.

Whats the problem? Is it because Spiderman said that he was 40 times faster than the normal human ( or is it 15 times). Im not picking his lowest showings I mentioned I have seen Spiderman beat a sentinel but the fact of the matter is he gets his butt kicked by street levelers AND he still cant take Cap in H2H. Skills = Superpowers.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master

And only the biggest fanboy and moron thinks Cap is catching missles and beating Iron Man and is not worth even debating with.

Well I persoanly think that Iron Man had to be pulling his punches. C-Master before you start calling people morons....what explanation did I give you about the missle? What did I say.....did I not say that was when he had superhuman strength? So what you can't read now?

Originally posted by Alfheim
Listen, mate at least the scans he posted actually happened in the MU. You put some scans up of some hypothetical situation concerning Spidey which never even happened. Then you started quoting the handbook which everyones knows is inaccurate. C'mon man....

Yes we know about SvFL 🙄 . But are you aware that SvFL says this:

"For example, Spiderman defeating a herald of Galactus is a case of the SvFL exemption; however, [B]Batman being able to sneak up on Superman is not because he has done so frequently under different writers. "

Therefore according the rules Cap should be able to take Spidey in combat. Fair enough the battle in CW was not conclusive but it shows Cap can give Spidey problems.[/B]

Cap has given him problems, but Spider-Man has also owned Cap. Are we choosing to ignore Bada's scans here?

Originally posted by Alfheim
Look if Spiderman says I cant take Cap in H2H and says "Im numb below the waist", does it mean I can take Cap in H2H and "Im NOT numb below the waist"? So basically Spiderman means the opposite of what he says.

And despite all of that Spider-Man still had an edge at the fights close

Originally posted by Alfheim
Whats the problem? Is it because Spiderman said that he was 40 times faster than the normal human ( or is it 15 times). Im not picking his lowest showings I mentioned I have seen Spiderman beat a sentinel but the fact of the matter is he gets his butt kicked by street levelers AND he still cant take Cap in H2H. Skills = Superpowers.

Obviously you are looking at Spider-Man at his lowest showings. Please for the love of God tell me these street levelers who kick SPidey's butt. Spider-Man almost killed Daredevil when they first fought and since then are are usually some sort of plot device in place to prevent a easy Spidey win, Shang Chi was shown to hang with Spider-Man, thats right, but Spider-Man said he was holding back cause he knew Shang was a good guy and Shang was confused or some crap (in fact many of the writers agree that a lot of Shang's feats back then were way past the scope of the characters abilities). Iron Fist has been shown to be able to keep up with Spider-Man when he's all amped up. I don't know what math course you've been taking but skills do not equal powers all the time.

Just so you know (and I hope you do), the previous post was not aimed at you, so don't think it was at you.

I'm sorry I tried to stay out of the sandbox but some of this is simply starting to get on my nerves.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Listen, mate at least the scans he posted actually happened in the MU. You put some scans up of some hypothetical situation concerning Spidey which never even happened.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Then you started quoting the handbook which everyones knows is inaccurate. C'mon man....

There's a thing that solid facts have that feats don't, when correct they remain consistent and are more or less the answer sheet we use to keep the characters within the suspension of belief that is needed in a debate.

What you don't understand, or would rather not accept is that there needs to be logic in debating, there has to be a grounds for it or no point would hold water.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Yes we know about SvFL 🙄 . But are you aware that SvFL says this:

"For example, Spiderman defeating a herald of Galactus is a case of the SvFL exemption; however, [B]Batman being able to sneak up on Superman is not because he has done so frequently under different writers. " [/B]

Originally posted by Alfheim
Therefore according the rules Cap should be able to take Spidey in combat.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Fair enough the battle in CW was not conclusive but it shows Cap can give Spidey problems.

Originally posted by Alfheim
I dont even care about that.

Dismissing something you don't care about that is cruicial to the debate is bad etiquette.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Look if Spiderman says I cant take Cap in H2H and says "Im numb below the waist", does it mean I can take Cap in H2H and "Im NOT numb below the waist"? So basically Spiderman means the opposite of what he says.

But then again you would have to know what a plot device is in the first place.

A plot device is a person or an object introduced to a story to affect or advance the plot. In the hands of a skilled writer, the reader or viewer will not notice that the device is a construction of the author—it will seem to follow naturally from the setting or characters in the story. A poorly-written story, on the other hand, may have such awkward or contrived plot devices that the reader has serious trouble maintaining suspension of disbelief; indeed, the devices may even leave plot holes.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Whats the problem? Is it because Spiderman said that he was 40 times faster than the normal human ( or is it 15 times).

Originally posted by Alfheim
Im not picking his lowest showings I mentioned I have seen Spiderman beat a sentinel

Originally posted by Alfheim
but the fact of the matter is he gets his butt kicked by street levelers AND he still cant take Cap in H2H.

Not a factor in this forum. Cap has no defense if Spiderman chooses to nail him in the face and knock him out/kill him.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Skills = Superpowers.

A Street level MA fanboys wetdream. The world's greatest fighter cannot beat the world's largest elephant. Or even a beserk bull for that matter. Or a bullet, Spiderman hits harder than all of these. A world class runner still can't outrun a cheetah, skills only help to a certain amount, but they don't make up for significant shortcomings in a direct confrontation. I fight just as well.

People who think this would think that Batman can beat Superman in a h2h confrontation, which is simply absurd. That is wrong plain and simple.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Well I persoanly think that Iron Man had to be pulling his punches.

Originally posted by Alfheim
C-Master before you start calling people morons....what explanation did I give you about the missle?

Originally posted by Alfheim
What did I say.....did I not say that was when he had superhuman strength?

Originally posted by Alfheim
So what you can't read now?

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Just so you know (and I hope you do), the previous post was not aimed at you, so don't think it was at you.

I'm sorry I tried to stay out of the sandbox but some of this is simply starting to get on my nerves.

Follow my breadcrumbs Hanzel, those scans were scans that you simply asked me to post, my point was to never prove whether they were valid or not, I left that up to you to decide. As far as it never happening, Spiderman has danced circles around Hulk before, so the point isn't really excluded from the other.

Where did *I* directly quote from the handbook? And if I did it would be in solid fact, things like Spiderman's strength, his tensile strength of his webbing, his speed, his agility, his reflex upgrade...

There's a thing that solid facts have that feats don't, when correct they remain consistent and are more or less the answer sheet we use to keep the characters within the suspension of belief that is needed in a debate.

What you don't understand, or would rather not accept is that there needs to be logic in debating, there has to be a grounds for it or no point would hold water.

But it could still be debated to be PIS. Which it would most likely be in this forum if you tried to bring it up as a point.

I'm glad you are trying to apply the rules of the forum unlike most of the Street Level MA fanboys, who don't like them because they hurt their argument. But you should try to understand them better.

I agree fully, I wasn't one of the people who said that Cap couldn't give Spiderman problems, simply more or less that Spiderman fighting smart would have an easy time disposing of him, most of the time out of ten.

Dismissing something you don't care about that is cruicial to the debate is bad etiquette.

Characters have often exaggerated when in a situation to give tension to the comic and making the comic more exciting to read therefore. It isn't uncommon to see that, there is also times that Wolverine said that Elecktra was no match for him, or that DD was no match for Spiderman, and that Wolverine is no match for Spiderman. I'm being fair and dropping them on both sides for the sake of the argument and not keeping one side and neglecting another.

But then again you would have to know what a plot device is in the first place.

A plot device is a person or an object introduced to a story to affect or advance the plot. In the hands of a skilled writer, the reader or viewer will not notice that the device is a construction of the author—it will seem to follow naturally from the setting or characters in the story. A poorly-written story, on the other hand, may have such awkward or contrived plot devices that the reader has serious trouble maintaining suspension of disbelief; indeed, the devices may even leave plot holes.

That was up to you to logically decide, not me.

What about Titania, or Brock, how about characters that are faster, stronger, and all around more menacing than Captian America.

Who does he get his butt kicked by? Are you talking about top level famous characters they would never have lose as not to upset the fanbase so they leave it as a draw and/or nonconclusive.

Not a factor in this forum. Cap has no defense if Spiderman chooses to nail him in the face and knock him out/kill him.

A Street level MA fanboys wetdream. The world's greatest fighter cannot beat the world's largest elephant. Or even a beserk bull for that matter. Or a bullet, Spiderman hits harder than all of these. A world class runner still can't outrun a cheetah, skills only help to a certain amount, but they don't make up for significant shortcomings in a direct confrontation. I fight just as well.

People who think this would think that Batman can beat Superman in a h2h confrontation, which is simply absurd. That is wrong plain and simple.

I'm glad you do.

Just a retort to the "Spider-Fanboy" remark.

Spiderman has superhuman strength and I wouldn't even argue something that absurd, not even if his durability doubled, it's crap writing plain and simple.

I can do something better, I can analyze, judge, and comprehend. 😉

Amazing. Just an amazing post

Originally posted by Dinalfos
You're gonna have to be consequent about amplification, otherwise the whole distinction between human and superhuman becomes pointless. And since Marvel appears to keep the human physical hierarchy of the real world more or less in tact, it's safe to assume that EVERYTHING in the MU is more powerful. Including Spiderman.

Spiderman has no real life counterpart, he is superhuman and is 15 times more agile then your average human.

Cap also has no real life counterpart, there is no such thing as the SSS, it made him the pinnacle of human perfection, do you know what the pinnacle of human perfection is? I don't, and I know you don't, as does no one else because right now their is no such thing. So marvel decides this, And if they want to showcase cap getting hit by a car, having a building fall on him, taking superhuman punches, and moving and reacting to keep up with superhumans, then who are we to argue with marvel if its CONSTANT, I repeat CONSTANT showings. Again their is no such thing as SSS, so we have to go by constant showing to get an idea of what it does.

Originally posted by marvelprince
Because everthing in the Cap respect details everything that occurs in Cap's series on a month-to-month basis. Yea, rite. Just how everything from in there is recent and up to date. I already pointed out how Cap is a human in MU cause in the MU the bar for human potential is higher than it is in the real world. Its not a hard concept to understand. Can you point out an instance where Spider-man has flat out ran and had his speed measured? If not then I don't see how you can say anything about his speed

Do you recall an instance where he has flat out ran 100+ miles per hour (faster then Rhino). If not then I don't see how you can Argue his speed to be so much greater then caps.

Originally posted by ankur29
aceel i read a few pages back and you said cap was 10X faster than humans

well if his can run amile just over a minute (that is not 60mph)it is roughly 6 times fater than a human

or if we consider teh average speed of a healthy human 15mph that is 4 times faster so don't be to generous towards cap

as for apollo knight..spidey states his own reflexes as 40 times greater than an avergae human , he has increased since then twice once in avengers diassasembled and once in the other

spidey's speed is not be 400mph(who said it is?) but it can definately be over 60mph

a safe assumption wold be over 100mph(this does neccesarily does not mean 150mph)his speed woudl be equal to rhino(100mph) if not greater but it is certainly geater than 60mph

So wait a second, spidey said himself that he is 40 times faster then your average human. Ok I have no problem accepting that. But wait a second, Spidey also said he couldn't handle cap in H2H, cap was to fast, well not just fast but more fluid in his movement, remember in my post a few pages back I was talking about how every punch, every action is not wasted with cap.

Again what should we accept, where do we draw the lines of PIS or acceptable. You want to accept Spidey being 40x faster when his profile says just 15x more agile, just because he said it.

But then you don't want to accept Spidey saying he cant handle cap in H2H.

Which one is it going to be man? And I love how you use Assumption, I love it, just making up things now are we, Have you ever seen spidey run in an all out sprint, if not, how can you judge his speed?

Wanna know how I can, because he said cap was too fast for him in H2H, thats all I need, how bout you?

when did he do 100mph?

Originally posted by ankur29
when did he do 100mph?

I dont know you tell me, you said it?

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Just so you know (and I hope you do), the previous post was not aimed at you, so don't think it was at you.

Ok fair enough, its just that there are some people on here who have debating tactics that annoy me, so im a bit aggravated already. Anyway I will keep this debate civil with you ( but my be a complete b****** to other people).

Originally posted by Tha C-Master

Follow my breadcrumbs Hanzel, those scans were scans that you simply asked me to post, my point was to never prove whether they were valid or not, I left that up to you to decide. As far as it never happening, Spiderman has danced circles around Hulk before, so the point isn't really excluded from the other.

Ok

Originally posted by Tha C-Master

Where did *I* directly quote from the handbook? And if I did it would be in solid fact, things like Spiderman's strength, his tensile strength of his webbing, his speed, his agility, his reflex upgrade...

Ok lets make one thing clear, when I say handbook I do not neccesarily mean it has to be only the Marvel Universe handbook, it could be a source on the web as well.

Well it was not refering to Spiderman but to Cap

QUOTE=7108673]Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I

On Cap:

Rogers in the regular Marvel Universe has no superhuman powers, although as a result of the Super-Soldier serum, he is transformed from a frail young man into a "nearly perfect" specimen of human development and conditioning. Captain America is as intelligent, strong, fast, agile, and durable as it is possible for a human being to be without being considered superhuman. The formula enhances all of his metabolic functions and prevents the build-up of fatigue poisons in his muscles, giving him endurance far in excess of an ordinary human being. This accounts for many of his extraordinary feats, including running a mile in a little more than a minute (Captain America 65th Anniversary Special). Rogers is also unable to become intoxicated by alcohol and is immune to many diseases.

Mentally, Rogers' battle experience and training make him an expert tactician and an excellent field commander, with his teammates frequently deferring to his orders in battle. Rogers's reflexes and senses are also extraordinarily keen. He is a master of boxing, jiu jitsu, and judo, combined with his virtually superhuman gymnastic ability into his own unique fighting style with advanced pressure-point fighting. Years of practice with his indestructible shield make it practically an extension of his own body, and he is able to aim and throw it with almost unerring accuracy and even ricochet the shield to hit multiple targets. He is extremely skilled in hand-to-hand combat, sometimes taking on and defeating foes whose strength, size, or superpowers greatly exceed his. In the comics, he is regarded by other skilled fighters as one of the best hand-to-hand combatants in the Marvel Universe (Captain America #302 and #375, among others).

Rogers has vast U.S. military knowledge and is often shown to be familiar with ongoing, highly-classified Defense Department operations. Despite his high profile as one of the world's most popular and recognizable superheroes, Rogers also has a broad understanding of the espionage community, largely through his ongoing relationship with S.H.I.E.L.D.. He occasionally makes forays into mundane career fields, including commercial arts, education (high school history) and law enforcement.

Captain America is revered by most of the superheroes in the Marvel Universe, filling the "leadership" role which Superman takes on in DC Comics. He is considered a living legend, and many characters [b](particuarly Spider-Man) idolize him.

Then Spiderman's...

[/B][/QUOTE]

What was annoying me as well is that you were saying that Cap is only slightly faster than an Olympic athelete, when the fact of the matter is that when they refer to this they say he is above, but they do not elaborate on how much. Therefore you cannot draw the conclusion that he is only slightly above an Olympic athelete looking at his feats in the comics we can see he is far above an athelete.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master

There's a thing that solid facts have that feats don't, when correct they remain consistent and are more or less the answer sheet we use to keep the characters within the suspension of belief that is needed in a debate.

Well this is a first. Alot of people here do not take the Marvel Handbook as a serious source of information because the comic book world contradicts it consistently. Not just with CA but lots of other super heroes such as The Thing and Namor.

What you don't understand, or would rather not accept is that there needs to be logic in debating, there has to be a grounds for it or no point would hold water.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master

But it could still be debated to be PIS. Which it would most likely be in this forum if you tried to bring it up as a point.

Ok this is bang out of order. Those are the rules. Superman has super senses but Batman can creep up on him. What can we deduce from this? Humans who have skills can sometimes use it to overcome super powers. If it happens frequently then this is an indication it can be done. If its's PIS why didn't they put it in the PIS section?

Originally posted by Tha C-Master

I'm glad you are trying to apply the rules of the forum unlike most of the Street Level MA fanboys, who don't like them because they hurt their argument. But you should try to understand them better.

Ok now you're being patronising, just because I dont agree with you this means I dont understand them. I see where you're coming from but the fact of the matter is SvFL gives a case for humans with talents beating superhumans (not batman beating superman in H2H). If you have a problem with it complain to the mods. It also shows that whenever you disagree with something even if they are backed up by the rules of the forum you will go against it.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master

I agree fully, I wasn't one of the people who said that Cap couldn't give Spiderman problems, simply more or less that Spiderman fighting smart would have an easy time disposing of him, most of the time out of ten.

Well I do think Spiderman not using his stealth mode is blatant CIS.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master

Dismissing something you don't care about that is cruicial to the debate is bad etiquette.

Sorry I just dont see the point you are trying to make...ok maybe I was confused.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master

Characters have often exaggerated when in a situation to give tension to the comic and making the comic more exciting to read therefore. It isn't uncommon to see that, there is also times that Wolverine said that Elecktra was no match for him, or that DD was no match for Spiderman, and that Wolverine is no match for Spiderman. I'm being fair and dropping them on both sides for the sake of the argument and not keeping one side and neglecting another.

But then again you would have to know what a plot device is in the first place.

A plot device is a person or an object introduced to a story to affect or advance the plot. In the hands of a skilled writer, the reader or viewer will not notice that the device is a construction of the author—it will seem to follow naturally from the setting or characters in the story. A poorly-written story, on the other hand, may have such awkward or contrived plot devices that the reader has serious trouble maintaining suspension of disbelief; indeed, the devices may even leave plot holes.

I know what a plot device is 😒 . Im not saying that there are never plot devices in the MU, but overall I do not think that is a valid explanation. Why doesn't the Hulk get beaten up by street levelers, Thor or Silver Surfer? Spiderman gets problems with street levelers because they can.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master

That was up to you to logically decide, not me.

Well according to Marvelprince the more accepted opinion is 15 times that of the normal human. If thats the case he should not be able to dodge lasers

Originally posted by Tha C-Master

What about Titania, or Brock, how about characters that are faster, stronger, and all around more menacing than Captian America.

Who is Brock..Venom? Well Titania is just a broad with superhuman strength, shes got no skills. Well ok Brock is more menacing but that dont change the fact he gets problems with street levelers. *shrug*

Originally posted by Tha C-Master

Who does he get his butt kicked by? Are you talking about top level famous characters they would never have lose as not to upset the fanbase so they leave it as a draw and/or nonconclusive.

No the Enforcers....who?

Originally posted by Tha C-Master

Not a factor in this forum. Cap has no defense if Spiderman chooses to nail him in the face and knock him out/kill him.

But he's taken damage from superhumans before....i think class 100 is pushing it though

Originally posted by Tha C-Master

A Street level MA fanboys wetdream. The world's greatest fighter cannot beat the world's largest elephant. Or even a beserk bull for that matter. Or a bullet, Spiderman hits harder than all of these. A world class runner still can't outrun a cheetah, skills only help to a certain amount, but they don't make up for significant shortcomings in a direct confrontation.

Ok you need to sort this out because I think you may be the only one here who is comparing what humans do in the real world to what they can do in the MU. Even if you think that Spiderman should kill Cap the fact of the matter humans are tougher in the MU than they are in the real world. If you want this forum to be more like real life then ban all Iron Man and Dr Doom threads because the only explanation that they can build what they can is by the fact that the MU amps human skills to superhuman level.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master

I fight just as well.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master

People who think this would think that Batman can beat Superman in a h2h confrontation, which is simply absurd. That is wrong plain and simple.

Well I dont think he can but like I said the skills are amped to superhuman levels. Otherwise take away Iron man's armour.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master

Spiderman has superhuman strength and I wouldn't even argue something that absurd, not even if his durability doubled, it's crap writing plain and simple.

Well I dont know how strong he was *shrug*
[/B][/QUOTE]

QUOTE=7196124]Originally posted by marvelprince
Cap has given him problems, but Spider-Man has also owned Cap. Are we choosing to ignore Bada's scans here?
[/QUOTE]

Did you hear me say Cap can't lose to Spiderman?

Originally posted by marvelprince

And despite all of that Spider-Man still had an edge at the fights close

Great....Did you hear me say Cap can't lose to Spiderman?

Originally posted by marvelprince

Obviously you are looking at Spider-Man at his lowest showings. Please for the love of God tell me these street levelers who kick SPidey's butt. Spider-Man almost killed Daredevil when they first fought and since then are are usually some sort of plot device in place to prevent a easy Spidey win, Shang Chi was shown to hang with Spider-Man, thats right, but Spider-Man said he was holding back cause he knew Shang was a good guy and Shang was confused or some crap (in fact many of the writers agree that a lot of Shang's feats back then were way past the scope of the characters abilities).

Yeah but the fact of the matter is. Spiderman can get hurt by street levelers and they can dodge him. Spiderman was not pretending to be dazed and he was not shooting his webbing slowly.

Originally posted by marvelprince

I don't know what math course you've been taking but skills do not equal powers all the time.

Yes I know. Cap can't beat the Hulk.

By the way this section of my post is not my statement it is C-master's

"What you don't understand, or would rather not accept is that there needs to be logic in debating, there has to be a grounds for it or no point would hold water."

Just in case some one notices it and thinks WTF!

Originally posted by Apolloknight
I dont know you tell me, you said it?

i did not say he did it i said he could easily do it because he is at least twice cap's running speed so 100mph should be easy 4 him

Originally posted by Apolloknight

So wait a second, spidey said himself that he is 40 times faster then your average human. Ok I have no problem accepting that. [B]But wait a second, Spidey also said he couldn't handle cap in H2H, cap was to fast, well not just fast but more fluid in his movement, remember in my post a few pages back I was talking about how every punch, every action is not wasted with cap.

Again what should we accept, where do we draw the lines of PIS or acceptable. You want to accept Spidey being 40x faster when his profile says just 15x more agile, just because he said it.

But then you don't want to accept Spidey saying he cant handle cap in H2H.
Which one is it going to be man? [/B]

Here, Here! Ok wait a second his profile says he is only 15 times faster. Can some one confirm this?

Originally posted by Alfheim
Here, Here! Ok wait a second his profile says he is only 15 times faster. Can some one confirm this?

http://www.marvel.com/universe/Spider-Man_%28Peter_Parker%29

Originally posted by ankur29
i did not say he did it i said he could easily do it because he is at least twice cap's running speed so 100mph should be easy 4 him

How do you know he is at least twice caps running speed, did they race before, If so can you provide scans?

Originally posted by Apolloknight
Cap also has no real life counterpart, there is no such thing as the SSS, it made him the pinnacle of human perfection, do you know what the pinnacle of human perfection is? I don't, and I know you don't, as does no one else because right now their is no such thing. So marvel decides this, And if they want to showcase cap getting hit by a car, having a building fall on him, taking superhuman punches, and moving and reacting to keep up with superhumans, then who are we to argue with marvel if its [b]CONSTANT, I repeat CONSTANT showings. Again their is no such thing as SSS, so we have to go by constant showing to get an idea of what it does. [/B]

Spoken like someone who only looked at the respect thread. These feats from Cap are far from constant. Most of time Cap is just seen as the ultimate human. Whenever sonething super comes up he usually uses his tactics etc to win instead of h2h. Again, Cap is consistently taken out from blows to the head, punches, kicks etc from NORMAL humans. If your definition of constant is a few scans in the respect thread instead of his month-by-month activities in his own books and in the Avengers then you really shouldn't be agruing

Originally posted by Apolloknight
Do you recall an instance where he has flat out ran 100+ miles per hour (faster then Rhino). If not then I don't see how you can Argue his speed to be so much greater then caps.

On the flip side how can you agrue that he ISN'T much faster? You don't have anything to say that he can't run that fast

Originally posted by Apolloknight
So wait a second, spidey said himself that he is 40 times faster then your average human. Ok I have no problem accepting that. But wait a second, Spidey also said he couldn't handle cap in H2H, cap was to fast, well not just fast but more fluid in his movement, remember in my post a few pages back I was talking about how every punch, every action is not wasted with cap.

Please, Spider-Man says that against practically every opponent. He said the same thing when he was going against Wolverine. He was moving slow and had to psych himself out in order to actually move as fast as he can.

Originally posted by Apolloknight
Again what should we accept, where do we draw the lines of PIS or acceptable. You want to accept Spidey being 40x faster when his profile says just 15x more [b]agile, just because he said it.[/B]

Actually in my ultimate guide to Spider-Man it says 40x. I choose to go by 15x cause its more consistent with most of his showings. Its why alot of times I choose not to go by profiles at all.

Originally posted by Apolloknight
Wanna know how I can, because he said cap was too fast for him in H2H, thats all I need, how bout you?

And yet Cap has gone on the record to say Spider-Man is too fast for him multiple times.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Did you hear me say Cap can't lose to Spiderman?

I kinda thought that was the point of this debate

Originally posted by Alfheim
Yeah but the fact of the matter is. Spiderman can get hurt by street levelers and they can dodge him. Spiderman was not pretending to be dazed and he was not shooting his webbing slowly.

I can accept that they can hurt him. They can't beat him though

Originally posted by Alfheim
Yes I know. Cap can't beat the Hulk.

Agreed

Look my point is Cap has some moves but he still can't beat Spider-Man. I give him at max 2 wins against Spider-Man in 10 fights.