Originally posted by marvelprinceWell said my friend, well said.
Wow. Way to completely distort everything. This is not a personal barb, just something I've noticed in general, that this argument is used by persons trying to justify an unsubstantial claim an hence they fall back on "well none of this is REALLY possbile so whats the point?" Well the point is that in these forums there is a certain amount of belief that must be suspended. In terms of powers and abilities we believe that yes someone can shoot blasts out of their eyes, fly, stick to walls etc. However everything is still grounded by a certain set of rules. General rules of physics still apply. So Cyclops can shoot optic blasts, but can't burn something with those blasts cause thats not included in the scope of his powers. He still has normal human abilities also so aside from the fact that red beams come from his eyes everything that he can do is grounded in realism. With Cap, looking at the scope of his powers and way he's been CONSISTENTLY (very keyword there) been shown since his inception when can pretty accurately acertain what is within his limits to accomplish. Part of Captain's America's powers does not include invunerability. The ability to survive a 20 ton punch is outside the realm of Cap's accepted powers and hence it is impossible. It is also impossible in the real world as is surviving in an iceberg for years but its also impossible in the comic world. In comic world, looking at Cap's accepted abilities, its impossible for him to survive a 20 ton punch.
Originally posted by H. S. 6
Hmm... seeing as how Spidey's got a major speed advantage... what's Cap going to do to stop it? Throw his shield? Ah, well, that won't work. I mean, we've all seen what happens then.
Yeah, we did see what happens. Spider-Man exposes his back, which is what Cap intended for him to do, and Cap sends a jab to Parker's ribcage which numbs him from the waist down. Now, since they're both fighting at their top potential here, Cap probably would put a lot more into that punch than he did in the book, so when Spidey hits the ground paralyzed from the butt down with a broken spinal column, Cap finishes Spidey off with a quick knife strike to the neck or a twist of the head like a pickle jar, and Cap walks off with the victory.
Originally posted by Capt.JK
Yeah, we did see what happens. Spider-Man exposes his back, which is what Cap intended for him to do, and Cap sends a jab to Parker's ribcage which numbs him from the waist down. Now, since they're both fighting at their top potential here, Cap probably would put a lot more into that punch than he did in the book, so when Spidey hits the ground paralyzed from the butt down with a broken spinal column, Cap finishes Spidey off with a quick knife strike to the neck or a twist of the head like a pickle jar, and Cap walks off with the victory.
Whoa whoa. First off, what makes you think Cap wasn't fighting at full potential. For all the Cap I've read Cap is not someone to hold back, in fact didn't he tell SPidey that he wasn't gonna hold back or something to that effect? Peter may have said he was numb, but he was still moving around just fine. And if Spidey can take hits from Venom, Scorpion, Doc Ock's arms, Carnage, Green Goblin (I could go on) who are all many many times stronger than Cap what makes you think can accomplish what they can't?
Originally posted by doctorstrongbad
Cap may be at the peak of human strength, endurance, agility etc due to his serum, but Spider-man is 15 to 20 times stronger, tougher, agile etc due to his recent upgrades. Spider-man wins 10/10.A better question would be... Who thought this was a fair fight?
spidey is roughly 44000lbs if he can bench 20tons cap is 1100bs spidey is technically 40 times stronger than cap (it woudl be 40 decimal something as 20 tons is more than 44000lbs by a few more pounds)
Originally posted by marvelprince
Wow. Way to completely distort everything. This is not a personal barb, just something I've noticed in general, that this argument is used by persons trying to justify an unsubstantial claim an hence they fall back on "well none of this is REALLY possbile so whats the point?" Well the point is that in these forums there is a certain amount of belief that must be suspended. In terms of powers and abilities we believe that yes someone can shoot blasts out of their eyes, fly, stick to walls etc. However everything is still grounded by a certain set of rules. General rules of physics still apply. So Cyclops can shoot optic blasts, but can't burn something with those blasts cause thats not included in the scope of his powers. He still has normal human abilities also so aside from the fact that red beams come from his eyes everything that he can do is grounded in realism. With Cap, looking at the scope of his powers and way he's been CONSISTENTLY (very keyword there) been shown since his inception when can pretty accurately acertain what is within his limits to accomplish. Part of Captain's America's powers does not include invunerability. The ability to survive a 20 ton punch is outside the realm of Cap's accepted powers and hence it is impossible. It is also impossible in the real world as is surviving in an iceberg for years but its also impossible in the comic world. In comic world, looking at Cap's accepted abilities, its impossible for him to survive a 20 ton punch.
I disagree but I dont have time to reply, by the way im not ignoring your post C-master I just got tons to do and I want to answer it properly but somone made a very good point.
Originally posted by Capt.JK
Yeah, we did see what happens. Spider-Man exposes his back, which is what Cap intended for him to do, and Cap sends a jab to Parker's ribcage which numbs him from the waist down. Now, since they're both fighting at their top potential here, Cap probably would put a lot more into that punch than he did in the book, so when Spidey hits the ground paralyzed from the butt down with a broken spinal column, Cap finishes Spidey off with a quick knife strike to the neck or a twist of the head like a pickle jar, and Cap walks off with the victory.
Hey is this amazing spiderman were Spiderman loses....someone put the scans up!
Originally posted by marvelprince
Wow. Way to completely distort everything. This is not a personal barb, just something I've noticed in general, that this argument is used by persons trying to justify an unsubstantial claim an hence they fall back on "well none of this is REALLY possbile so whats the point?" Well the point is that in these forums there is a certain amount of belief that must be suspended. In terms of powers and abilities we believe that yes someone can shoot blasts out of their eyes, fly, stick to walls etc. However everything is still grounded by a certain set of rules. General rules of physics still apply. So Cyclops can shoot optic blasts, but can't burn something with those blasts cause thats not included in the scope of his powers. He still has normal human abilities also so aside from the fact that red beams come from his eyes everything that he can do is grounded in realism. With Cap, looking at the scope of his powers and way he's been CONSISTENTLY (very keyword there) been shown since his inception when can pretty accurately acertain what is within his limits to accomplish. Part of Captain's America's powers does not include invunerability. The ability to survive a 20 ton punch is outside the realm of Cap's accepted powers and hence it is impossible. It is also impossible in the real world as is surviving in an iceberg for years but its also impossible in the comic world. In comic world, looking at Cap's accepted abilities, its impossible for him to survive a 20 ton punch.
Look im sorry but im going to answer this now , but im not going to reply to C-master's post not because I cant answer it but because I think what im going to say here is something I would say in reply to his post and this one.
Ok im changing my opinion on certain things but im going to explain why in two points.
1.First of all im going back on my opinion concerning SvFL. You know I said that I thought that Batman sneaking up on Superman was PIS, not anymore. Now look I know some of you are going to throw your hands up in outrage but the fact of the matter is those are the rules
"Batman being able to sneak up on Superman is not because he has done so frequently under different writers".
As you know this is from the SvFL rules. I understand where C-master is coming from when he says it is PIS and he is absolutely right when he says that it should not happen because Superman can hear a pin drop from extrodinary distances. The fact of the matter is that its not PIS because it clearly states that its is accepted that weaker characters can overcome stronger characters if it happens consistently. Furthermore look at the rest of the rules:
"Spiderman vs. Firelord, or SvFL, is a shorthand that refers to any time when a character performs a feat that their powers and skills should be blatantly insufficient for, and is not repeated or is rarely repeated again relative to the character's overall established career, as well as the character's opponents' established showings".
This is implies that Spiderman should not be able to defeat Firelord but if you look at the bolded sections its states that it could be accepted if it happens consistently time and time again. You cant say that you are following the forum rules when you have that there because these rules give exemption to weaker characters. When I say talk to the mods I mean it, im not being sarcastic. You are in your right mind to think that Batman should not be able to creep up on Superman, but if you dont like it change the rules. In all fairness the reason why I have changed my mind is because of the second point im going to try to make.
2. Yes I have mentioned this before and in reply to Marvelprince's statment......no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no.
Originally posted by marvelprince
well none of this is REALLY possbile so whats the point?" Well the point is that in these forums there is a certain amount of belief that must be suspended. In terms of powers and abilities we believe that yes someone can shoot blasts out of their eyes, fly, stick to walls etc. However everything is still grounded by a certain set of rules. /B]
If this forum has suspended disbelief who do you have a rules thats states that batman can creep up on superman? Furthermore you rules are not consistent. This is why I keep saying what are you comparing this to? You cant keep saying that you are basing it on the real world when you have a person who was hit by a nuclear bomb walking about on this forum. It does not matter how you spin it surviving a nuclear blast is more impossible than surviving a 20 ton punch.
This is why I keep saying to you change the rules or get rid of certain characters because you think you are being consistent but you are not. No Cap should not survive a 20 ton punch but by just merely accepting that some one can survive a nuclear blast and then not allow cap to survive a 20 ton punch is inconsistent.
Originally posted by marvelprince
[B] With Cap, looking at the scope of his powers and way he's been CONSISTENTLY (very keyword there) been shown since his inception when can pretty accurately acertain what is within his limits to accomplish. Part of Captain's America's powers does not include invunerability. The ability to survive a 20 ton punch is outside the realm of Cap's accepted powers and hence it is impossible. It is also impossible in the real world as is surviving in an iceberg for years but its also impossible in the comic world. In comic world, looking at Cap's accepted abilities, its impossible for him to survive a 20 ton punch
That is absolute nonsense you can disagree with what he is able to do, but if you look at his showings he can survive a 20 ton punch. I also have never seen Cap being hit by Mjolinor.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
You've already established that Spiderman was fighting dumb, so that takes a part in the final outcome in the theory, and thus the practicality of your own argument.
Yes but actually it could be argued that Cap was too.. I just thought about this, in Civil War some one asks Cap about Spiderman's armour and Cap goes into detail. Cap uses a davice to disarm Iron Man, if Cap knows that Spiderman has stealth mode why did he not get some one to design glasses for him.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Fair enough, I'm not talking about feats though.
I'm saying things like strength, speed, agility.
Cap is about the limit of, (or slightly more) of an Olympic level athlete in those categories. I've already explained his running feat being a combination of his inability to fatigue and it being feasable in a dire situation, but not on normal circumstances.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I repeat Cap is not slightly above Olympic standard, there is nothing to say in his bio that he is.
"Captain America has a very high intelligence as well as agility, strength, speed, endurance, and reaction time superior to any Olympic athlete who ever competed ".
They use the words very high and superior this is implying that he is much more superior to an olympic athelete, there is no sligthly there. Im not just talking about feats but strangth, speed and agility. C'mon man, Cap has been seen to benchpress 1100Lbs with ease that is well above the olympic standard. Bruv, I serioulsy think the use of this word "slightly" is incorrect.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
What like Champion, or Gladiator? Green Lantern has his own skills
Look I cant see Cap fighting Gladiator or the Champion any time soon...
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Spiderman has tons of skills and potential for that matter. His mind works extremely fast, and his body is so flexible, he can do tons of flips in the air. You let him do a full-power jump, and see where he would land. It would be quite far. These are all skills, an application of something is a skill, so by your meaning any superhuman could apply their set skills at a much better rate than a mere peak human more often than not.
First of all most of his skills come from his power. Secondly in the real world you have genuises but less intelligent people if they work hard can catch up with them. Yeah if the genuise worked harder he could do better still, but the fact of the matter is that spiderman is not a genuis at web shooting or acrobatics, its just a skill he has augumented by his powers. If he studied martial arts he would kill Cap but he has not....so there.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
To an extent yes, and that's still putting it mildly. The problem comes in that peak humans do alot (and I do mean ALOT) of things they shouldn't do. But when they come here with their powers and no prep or anything, their shortcomings become quickly apparent.
Sorry im going to disgree. Like I said Iron Man and Dr Strange should not be able to do the things that they can do, their skills are seriously amped in the MU, I can't see why Cap cant be amped too. Spiderman has skills but is not extremely talented at what he does, as I said before most of his skills come from his powers.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Look at my post the 2 points prior, anything applied is a skill. Shooting webbing is a skill, and should not be neglected because it is unorthodox. Spiderman's style is a skill and he utilizes his powers for it,
Already answered that point.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
you need principle, and common sense.
Yeah but obvoulsy a martial expert is going to have better principles.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
It's always cool to see our favorite characters match it up, but it's just to keep in mind that, in theory, (with the forum modifiers), things are quite different.
I disagree you need to change some principles in SvFL
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Consistency is not contingent with PIS, what that means is that Flash can constantly get hit by a boomerang time and time again, but it has no hold inside of this forum alone.
*cringe* ...yeessss...but you really need to do something about the wording in SvFl
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I have no problem with these characters beating superhumans if it falls into the suspension of disbelief mentioned earlier.
OK
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
He has plenty of examples of his jobber aura working for him, he has alot of the "because he just can" working for him in the forums as well, which as an argument does not work without feasible practicality to back them up.
Yeah sometimes....
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I put that in a size four for everyone to see. You do establish that Spiderman was fighting less than the best of his capabilities, something that should be excluded from practicality within the versus forum rules.
Yes thats true.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
But, you have to remember that what you mentioned is PIS not CIS, PIS is exempt from debates, CIS (Spiderman's not killing, because he just won't) isn't, unless stated otherwise.
Some one was telling me that it's both... 😉
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I agree that Spiderman isn't a heavyweight as well, and that quite a few heroes can give him a hard time/beat him, simply because he holds back. That's mostly exempt from the forums, and most of the examples invade the rules more often than not.
Yeah but people have been saying time and time again that Cap has fought people on Spidey's level who were trying to kill him.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
That is fine with the Hulk, however keep in mind that slower and much weaker characters have even stood up to the Hulk for some time, when they really should have been obliterated. Cap has even taken hits from him, as DD. Shouldn't happen.
Well yeah, but the forum rules state that if it keeps happening..
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
That's believeable if it's just a man, hell people do that all of the time, even I have almost done it once or twice.
Well thats just something Spiderman and Cap can do.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
And speed, and agility, and most importantly a warning system. It's how he dodges lightning, lightning moves so fast that is duration is very short, so he's already in reality moved before the lightning has even formed, just because of the timer latency in-between it.
Same thing with a laser, his system tells him where the attack is coming from, but not what it is. 15x human reflexes is ALOT. Reflexes are almost instant. I have great reflexes. Multiply that by 15 and that's incredible, 15x or more speed (keep in mind that the stronger a muscle is in a body, that the faster it moves), and he can dodge what would be impossible for others rather easily.
185,000 mph second c'mon bruv!!!!!
Originally posted by Tha C-Master*shrug*, skills get amped in the MU
Again, to an extent. They won't be sustaining very fast punches with the power to bend cannons and smash concrete though. The surface area, velocity, and power, going into the contour face is enough of it's own. It's a bit silly to say that MA's would protect from a 40,000 pound punch and a starting velocity of 300-400 mph within the first second.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Look im sorry but im going to answer this now , but im not going to reply to C-master's post not because I cant answer it but because I think what im going to say here is something I would say in reply to his post and this one.Ok im changing my opinion on certain things but im going to explain why in two points.
1.First of all im going back on my opinion concerning SvFL. You know I said that I thought that Batman sneaking up on Superman was PIS, not anymore. Now look I know some of you are going to throw your hands up in outrage but the fact of the matter is those are the[B] rules
"Batman being able to sneak up on Superman is not because he has done so frequently under different writers".
As you know this is from the SvFL rules. I understand where C-master is coming from when he says it is PIS and he is absolutely right when he says that it should not happen because Superman can hear a pin drop from extrodinary distances. The fact of the matter is that its not PIS because it clearly states that its is accepted that weaker characters can overcome stronger characters if it happens consistently. Furthermore look at the rest of the rules:[/B]
Actually I can accept Batman sneaking up on Superman cause the times he's done it usually he'll say something like "gadget worked" or whatever implying that it wasn't really him being sneaky, he had some help
Originally posted by Alfheim
"Spiderman vs. Firelord, or SvFL, is a shorthand that refers to any time when a character performs a feat that their powers and skills should be blatantly insufficient for,[B] and is not repeated or is rarely repeated again relative to the character's overall established career, as well as the character's opponents' established showings".This is implies that Spiderman should not be able to defeat Firelord but if you look at the bolded sections its states that it could be accepted if it happens consistently time and time again. You cant say that you are following the forum rules when you have that there because these rules give exemption to weaker characters. When I say talk to the mods I mean it, im not being sarcastic. You are in your right mind to think that Batman should not be able to creep up on Superman, but if you dont like it change the rules. In all fairness the reason why I have changed my mind is because of the second point im going to try to make.[/B]
The wording is right there in itself. Feats relative to the character's overall established career. Cap may have good feats but if you look at the whole package there is nothing to suggest he can consistently best Spider-Man in a fight
Originally posted by Alfheim
2. Yes I have mentioned this before and in reply to Marvelprince's statment......no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no.If this forum has suspended disbelief who do you have a rules thats states that batman can creep up on superman? Furthermore you rules are not consistent. This is why I keep saying what are you comparing this to? You cant keep saying that you are basing it on the real world when you have a person who was hit by a nuclear bomb walking about on this forum. It does not matter how you spin it surviving a nuclear blast is more impossible than surviving a 20 ton punch.
I've already said how Batman can sneak up on Supes
Originally posted by Alfheim
This is why I keep saying to you change the rules or get rid of certain characters because you think you are being consistent but you are not. No Cap should not survive a 20 ton punch but by just merely accepting that some one can survive a nuclear blast and then not allow cap to survive a 20 ton punch is inconsistent.
No its not. If the person who is hit by the bomb has a healing factor or such then it is in the scope of their abilities. Its just like Cap can't fly because its not included in the scope of his abilities and how Daredevil can't run super fast. Its not been established that they can do that. So for Cap who has not been shown to have a healing factor or invunerablity we can say, while being consistent with his showings, that he can't survive a full on 20 ton punch
Originally posted by Alfheim
That is absolute nonsense you can disagree with what he is able to do, but if you look at his showings he can survive a 20 ton punch. I also have never seen Cap being hit by Mjolinor.
Cap has taken a hammer to the shield. Not thr point though, since your the one disagreeing what prove do you have to demonstrate that Cap can survive a 20 ton punch? Especially given the range of Cap's powers
Originally posted by marvelprince
Actually I can accept Batman sneaking up on Superman cause the times he's done it usually he'll say something like "gadget worked" or whatever implying that it wasn't really him being sneaky, he had some help
That would explain it. Can anyone else verify this, knowing you you probably took it out of context.
Originally posted by marvelprince
The wording is right there in itself. Feats relative to the character's overall established career. Cap may have good feats but if you look at the whole package there is nothing to suggest he can consistently best Spider-Man in a fight
Cap Vs Scorpion.....HELLLOOOOOO!!!! Cap Vs Doctor Octopus...HHHHELLLOOOO!!!!! Sometimes you take the mick, you also said that Cap cannot hurt Spiderrman after Spiderman said he felt numb below the waist. Just because someone is hurt doesn't mean they are going to stop moving. For the love of God a clone robot of Spiderman said he could not take Cap in H2H. Marvel prince im getting the impression you are just ignoring people.
Originally posted by marvelprince
I've already said how Batman can sneak up on Supes
Ok
Originally posted by marvelprince
No its not. If the person who is hit by the bomb has a healing factor or such then it is in the scope of their abilities.
Ok so Bruce Banner had a healing factor that enabled him to take a nuclear blast.......stop taking the mick. He did not have a healing factor he was human, stop making stuff up.
Oh yeah another thing no one has given me a rational explanation as to why Iron man could build the stuff he builds. As I said to you before no one can build anyhting like the stuff he does in the real world, so why cant Cap have skills that can make him fight a 20 toner ore more. They are different skills but the scale is similar.
Originally posted by marvelprince
Its just like Cap can't fly because its not included in the scope of his abilities and how Daredevil can't run super fast. Its not been established that they can do that. So for Cap who has not been shown to have a healing factor or invunerablity we can say, while being consistent with his showings, that he can't survive a full on 20 ton punch
Whatever...is this supposed to have something to do with Bruce taking a nuclear blast?
Originally posted by marvelprince
Cap has taken a hammer to the shield. Not thr point though, since your the one disagreeing what prove do you have to demonstrate that Cap can survive a 20 ton punch? Especially given the range of Cap's powers
Well since the shield is indestructable it could have absorbed tha damage. Haven't you heard anything anybody has said. Cap has taken damage from ten toners and worse before.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Yes but actually it could be argued that Cap was too..
Anything can be argued, but I would find alot more evidence in the favor that Spiderman was not being written to the highest of his potential.
1. Because he was holding back (like he always does), and that is not a stipulation of this forum unless stated otherwise.
2. He did not use all of his tools at his disposal.
3. His strength, speed, and durability were all severly downplayed.
Originally posted by Alfheim
I just thought about this, in Civil War some one asks Cap about Spiderman's armour and Cap goes into detail.
I really don't understand what point you are trying to make. There isn't really anything in Cap's standard arsneal that would give him an advantage against it.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Cap uses a davice to disarm Iron Man,
This isn't a factor in the match and is considered a plot device.
A plot device is a person or an object introduced to a story to affect or advance the plot. In the hands of a skilled writer, the reader or viewer will not notice that the device is a construction of the author—it will seem to follow naturally from the setting or characters in the story. A poorly-written story, on the other hand, may have such awkward or contrived plot devices that the reader has serious trouble maintaining suspension of disbelief; indeed, the devices may even leave plot holes.
Originally posted by Alfheim
if Cap knows that Spiderman has stealth mode why did he not get some one to design glasses for him.
Still wouldn't matter in this particular matchup, it is not a part of his standard equipment and therefore is restricted from the matchup due to the rules, again unless stated otherwise.
Originally posted by Alfheim
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I repeat Cap is not slightly above Olympic standard, there is nothing to say in his bio that he is.
So now you're going by bio's now? I'm confused.
Originally posted by AlfheimI agree he is superior, but just at a threshold margin.
"Captain America has a very high intelligence as well as agility, strength, speed, endurance, and reaction time superior to any Olympic athlete who ever competed ".
Originally posted by AlfheimVery high was an adverb to intelligence which was an adjective to Captain America, it still doesn't specify a limit, and now you're saying it is. You're being erratic. I'm not saying *1* Olympic athlete can do what Captain America does, rather that in each statistical category as far as physicality he is just a step beyond, a pinnacle of what a human can be.
They use the words very high and superior this is implying that he is much more superior to an olympic athelete, there is no sligthly there.
Originally posted by AlfheimThe top lifting strenght is about 1000 pounds, plus Cap is at 800 when it comes to pressing, that's his established strength. He's a bit stronger than Daredevil, that's it.
Im not just talking about feats but strangth, speed and agility. C'mon man, Cap has been seen to benchpress 1100Lbs with [B]ease that is well above the olympic standard. [/B]
Originally posted by Alfheim
Bruv, I serioulsy think the use of this word "slightly" is incorrect.
In what category? If you take away the fact that he can't be fatigued (which allows him to do most of that in the first place), then he is a step beyond. A step. Not ten, not twenty, not 100, a step.
Originally posted by AlfheimA power that's he's honed in and mastered for well over 3 decades. You know what a skill is right?
First of all most of his skills come from his power.
1. the ability, coming from one's knowledge, practice, aptitude, etc., to do something well: Carpentry was one of his many skills.
2. competent excellence in performance; expertness; dexterity: The dancers performed with skill.
It doesn't matter if his powers increased his aptitude or not, his movement is a skill, his jumping is a skill. He can do it well, better than either you or I can. A person who wins the fight is the better fighter (particularly in terms of efficeincy), if you train for years and years, but you always lose your fights, how can you therefore say you are a better fighter?
Originally posted by AlfheimSee you're being erratic again though, you are now using real world examples after shunning them in several arguments with I and several other members.
Secondly in the real world you have genuises but less intelligent people if they work hard can catch up with them.
Regardless your argument can be right in the most extreme circumstances. When you used the word "genius" and "intelligence" then you just opened up an entire spectrum of terminology. Intelligence is a broad term, and you have several different type of intelligence: linguistic, spatial, athletic, etc. A person who is gifted is already naturally high at these, but a person who is considered a genius at these are so high at these that it goes into another level. I have taken several aptitude and have scored the relative level (which is universally accepted as 140 and above) in several fields, whilst there is no perfect test, you can tell by the development of the person. What took people hours to study, I did in minutes. I am able to stop training for a year, pick back up in a month, and get to thousands of reps a day and get to 2% bodyfat, master arts in a few tries, etc. The more overall intelligence you have (adroitness of the mind), the more able you are to adapt and master that particular given field, or become better at it. So that in itself is a skill.
However, practice will only allieviate some shortcomings in most instances, some people are just gifted with ease of grace, and others can never come close no matter how well they try to speak, because that ease of grace just isn't within them. However I think you understand the point, people and things are just built for different things. I can run fast, and practice my entire life, but a young cheetah can beat me at it, because it's built for it. No different than Spiderman being built for moving, stretching and lifting due to his altered physique.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Yeah if the genuise worked harder he could do better still,
Spiderman is an accomplished genius, I hope you realize that.
Originally posted by AlfheimSpiderman INVENTED the web shooters at a young age, how many people can put claim to that. He can apply his knowledge (which is considered a skill), and pull down things in mid flight, even a moving rollercoaster, his faster body and adroitness allows for him to do things that a person could never do. They are unique and unique to him alone. He's applied them for decades now, to think otherwise is well, there are no words for that.
but the fact of the matter is that spiderman is not a genuis at web shooting
Not to mention he can web a person's mouth and nose, smothering them. Something that itself can kill Cap.
Originally posted by AlfheimAgain, his spine can bend twice as much as a human, not to mention his perfect equilibrium. He's also been applying this for decades, he's been pretty much established as the most agile character in Marvel, he'll always beat guys like Beast and Nightcrawler, so how is he not superhumanly skilled? (which is actually beyond genius).
or acrobatics
Originally posted by Alfheim
, its just a skill he has augumented by his powers.
And he has applied it and can do it far outside the scope of which Captain America will ever do.
Originally posted by AlfheimHe actually has studied fighting since he was younger, and not to mention he has trained with Cap and caught a bullet, something Cap can't do.
If he studied martial arts he would kill Cap but he has not....so there.
And he would never kill Cap no different than Thing will never kill Cap since it would upset the fanbase, which is simply not a factor here.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Sorry im going to disgree. Like I said Iron Man and Dr Strange should not be able to do the things that they can do,
Iron Man can press over 100 tons and has an extensive weapon system, what is he doing that is beyond the suspension of belief (or disbelief) for his powers?
And Strange uses magic, which means no limit, which means walking plot device, so that in itself is a contradiction upon the very reason of his powers.
Originally posted by Alfheim
their skills are seriously amped in the MU,
What magicians and Iron Mans do you know around here?
Originally posted by Alfheim
I can't see why Cap cant be amped too.
It doesn't matter as long as the suspension of disbelief is maintained in the forum.
Originally posted by AlfheimHow isn't he if he can do these things and has applied them for years. Spiderman is excellent at what he does, holding back and facing superior odds and numbers without killing his opponents while they are trying to kill them is amazing. Plus he doesn't have a team backing him up like Captian America. Did you see the guy he took out that Cap, Iron Man, Wasp, and Hawkeye couldn't take out?
Spiderman has skills but is not extremely talented at what he does,
Originally posted by Alfheim
as I said before most of his skills come from his powers.
Which he has better application of because he has applied them longer, you make it seem like any ordinary Joe who has powers can simply do what he does, because Peter was an ordinary Joe, but they still couldn't, he has fought inexperienced goons with powers before. Look at Angelo in the Venom costume, beat him to death almost.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Yeah but obvoulsy a martial expert is going to have better principles.
Originally posted by Alfheim
I disagree you need to change some principles in SvFL
Originally posted by Alfheim
*cringe* ...yeessss...but you really need to do something about the wording in SvFl
Again this PIS, and again, consistency is not contingent in PIS. Refer to the Flash/Boomerang example.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Yeah sometimes....
Quite often it seems. 😉
Originally posted by Alfheim
Some one was telling me that it's both... 😉
That wasn't me, and I don't think it was Xmarksthespot, I clearly laid the outliers for both terms since I established an account here.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Yeah but people have been saying time and time again that Cap has fought people on Spidey's level who were trying to kill him.
Spiderman defeated Red Skrull in one page. And again that's simply what he's written to do, without forum modifiers.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Well yeah, but the forum rules state that if it keeps happening..
Then it could possibly be PIS, in which Consistency is not contingent upon.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Well thats just something Spiderman and Cap can do.
Originally posted by Alfheim187,000 😉
185,000 mph second c'mon bruv!!!!!
Again the duration of such an attack is very short that the timer with Spiderman's signal (which comes milliseconds before), allows him to move before it is even formed, the laser/lightning is NOT Flash, it doesn't have an intelligence (there goes that word again), and it cannot change direction.
Originally posted by AlfheimYou can do better than that.
*shrug*, skills get amped in the MU
Another thing if you want to talk stats. These are the stats for Captain America and Spiderman according to the classic marvel rpg.
The stats levels are so, starting with the weakest:
Feeble FB
Poor PR
Typical TY
Good GD
Excellent EX
Remarkable RM
Incredible IN
Amazing AM
Mànstrous MN
Unearthly UN
The stats for Cap are:
http://www.classicmarvel.com/cast/captain_america.htm
The stats for Spiderman are:
http://www.classicmarvel.com/cast/spiderman.htm
Bare in mind this site is approved by Marvel.com and also in the offical Marvel RPG game the stats are almost identical.
Originally posted by Alfheim
That would explain it. Can anyone else verify this, knowing you you probably took it out of context.
Nope. In Morrison's run when the white martians attack MM tries to contact the heroes and everyone shows up except Batman. When Batman reveals he's been there the whole time Supes says he didn't hear Bruce's heartbeat and Bruce gives a little laugh and says hmm, gadget worked.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Cap Vs Scorpion.....HELLLOOOOOO!!!! Cap Vs Doctor Octopus...HHHHELLLOOOO!!!!! Sometimes you take the mick, you also said that Cap cannot hurt Spiderrman after Spiderman said he felt numb below the waist. Just because someone is hurt doesn't mean they are going to stop moving. For the love of God a clone robot of Spiderman said he could not take Cap in H2H. Marvel prince im getting the impression you are just ignoring people.
I've yet to see Cap take a direct hit from any of those guys. He's faced them but has yet to take direct blows to the head as far as I know
Ok
Originally posted by Alfheim
Ok so Bruce Banner had a healing factor that enabled him to take a nuclear blast.......stop taking the mick. He did not have a healing factor he was human, stop making stuff up.
Wasn't it retconned to say there was some reason his body absorbed all that energy. If not I can't really explain that one except for standard suspension of belief in order to achieve an origin. Besides, he wasn't hit by a bomb, he was just exposed to massive amounts of radiation
Originally posted by Alfheim
Oh yeah another thing no one has given me a rational explanation as to why Iron man could build the stuff he builds. As I said to you before no one can build anyhting like the stuff he does in the real world, so why cant Cap have skills that can make him fight a 20 toner ore more. They are different skills but the scale is similar.
Marvel scale. Potential for human is higher than in the real world. Also apllies to heroes like Daredevil and Shang. I made a post explaining this a few pages back
Originally posted by Alfheim
Well since the shield is indestructable it could have absorbed tha damage. Haven't you heard anything anybody has said. Cap has taken damage from ten toners and worse before.
Shield is the reason he takes damage. Not cause he's just that durable
Originally posted by AlfheimThere's another more official one. Basically has it cut into Human and superhuman...
Another thing if you want to talk stats. These are the stats for Captain America and Spiderman according to the classic marvel rpg.
The stats levels are so, starting with the weakest:Feeble FB
Poor PR
Typical TY
Good GD
Excellent EX
Remarkable RM
Incredible IN
Amazing AM
Mànstrous MN
Unearthly UNThe stats for Cap are:
http://www.classicmarvel.com/cast/captain_america.htm
The stats for Spiderman are:
http://www.classicmarvel.com/cast/spiderman.htm
Bare in mind this site is approved by Marvel.com and also in the offical Marvel RPG game the stats are almost identical.