Originally posted by Dinalfos
Internal logic/consistency is not about creating balance, but also about keeping. Cap may have consistently given Spiderman trouble, but that doesn't mean it is consistent in every way. Not every character fares so badly against Captain. And some do much worse. The point is that it takes more than just Cap beating on Spiderman to prove the MU consistent. Writers sometimes choose to follow the rules and sometimes ignore them. That goes for everybody, but it makes comic standards unreliable. And it's not even a real standard. It's just something that he does without back up.
evidence makes a standard of evidence.. all the evidence that comapares the two characters means that cap can give spidey fits, your rationalizations mean nothing here... evidence is all that matters.
Originally posted by Dinalfos
Why not? the MU is consistent in the presence of the supernatural. There is no handbook that tells you that the MU is bereft of supernatural forces, only to be proved wrong by the comics themselves. Also, it's not as if supernatural/crazy stuff(like the spider bite) comes and goes like its nothing. It's consistently present.
you can't appeal to a strict format of logic and then appeal to the supernatural... otherwise there might be supernatural forces that will never allow spiderman to beat cap.. and since I can't prove a negative.. it's up to you to prove that this specualtion exists... if it doesn't.. then it's less credible than feats..
Originally posted by Dinalfos
But even if you refuse to accept the origins, it still means that Marvel must be consistent about what it establishes. Since that is nearly impossible, we don't use the comics as pure evidence alone.
not alone.. no.. not what I said.. but they DO set up a standard and they ARE in cap's favor...
Originally posted by Dinalfos
Eh....You're missing the point. Read carefully.
no I'm not.. you are.. you can't have your cake and eat it too... which is what you keep trying to do here.
Originally posted by Dinalfos
You don't understand the concept of bloodlust. It doesn't just mean "lusting for blood", it also means fighting to the best of the character's abilities.
sure I do... I've got a better conception of the rule than most.. spidey can fight at the best of his abilities.. so far that hasn't proven to be too much for cap to handle..
Originally posted by Dinalfos
Bloodlust is automatically on for every character, unless stated otherwise. That means Spiderman will be doing everything he can to finish the fight as quickly as possible. For some characters, K.O is enough, for others it must mean death. Of course, Spiderman's conscious will be discussed, but in the end every possible road to victory will be counted. I mean, you saw it yourself, when someone mentioned how Spidey could just splatter Cap all over the place(hyperbole) with a class 20 punch.
CIS is on too so that just made everyhing you said irrelivent.
Originally posted by Dinalfos
Hold up, what kind of speed are we talking about? I mean, yeah, Ghostrider can use his cycle to attain great speeds. Demogoblin can use his glider. Without them, both would a lot slower.
combative speeds obviously...
Originally posted by Dinalfos
I will say this, though. A good deal of versatility + superhuman powers should be enough to compensate for a lack of human fighting skills.
they do compensate but they DO NOT overcompensate... not when they're compared to the calibur of guys like cap...
Originally posted by Dinalfos
I would accept that, had Marvel not been so damn inconsistent. I used Hulk vs. Gladiator to illustrate that Gladiator sometimes scales down(jobbing) to less versatile characters. This alone proofs that internal logic is impossible to uphold in the comic world. I can't blame them, but it does make it harder to accept as evidence.
no it doesn't because again it's a TERRRRRRIBLE example.. gladiator is a character who's powers fluctuate.. you can't use him because his powers are not at a constant level.. they drift.
Originally posted by Dinalfos
He was messed up by Ben himself. Anyway, it's not just one occasion for one character. You're gonna have to factor in countless of connections.
no he wasn't... he'd been dealing with a lot more than ben in the issues previous to that.
this is backed up by the fact that ben's failed to KO the guy on several occasions afterwards using full force blows.
Originally posted by Dinalfos
No, Juggernaut is a fine example. And Juggernaut can't punch holes in the dimensional fabric, that was when he was possessed by Trion. I obviously wasn't talking about THAT version of Juggernaut.
my point still stands he's NOT a fine example... he's 3 punched thing unconcious.. and again it's ONE example contradicted by the MAJORITY... akin: the MAJORITY of examples say cap gives spidey fits.