OneDumbG0
Find Your Own Fire
First of all, I'll address every single one of your points, I will not avoid a single sentence in your posts.
Originally posted by Metalmanx
To even use that fight as evidence is enough right there. It was painfully obvious that Spider-Man did NOT want to fight Cap. He was doing almost everything in his power to hold back. For all intents and purposes, Spidey was worshiping Cap, even in that fight. Had that been some evil form of Cap, Spidey would've wrecked him in the first few seconds. Over the years, we've seen what happens when Spidey really lets loose and thrashes his opponent.
It is painfully obvious Spidey does not want to fight Cap. But there is nothing there in his mind or the artistic rendtion of the fight that shows he is holding back. Not wanting to fight and holding back are two completely different things. All this fight shows is that he's scared sh1tless once he realizes how good Cap is. Nowhere does he think or say or suggest he's holding back. Now, let us assume he was holding back or at the very least did not want to hurt Cap: 1) Why would he let himself get tagged? Can't you hold back and not get hit at the same time?
Fact is, even with the spidey sense buzzing, he can't avoid being hit. 2) Why does he not simply disable him with webbing to provide a safe end to the fight?
The fact is, he would and he tried... but Cap avoided being caught by it. Those two inconsistencies with your theory is direct evidence that Spidey was NOT holding back in his fight. If you can provide captions or bubbles or art that clearly shows he is holding back, by all means post it.
And why have we already assumed that Cap wasn't holding back? Was he fighting to kill Spidey? We all know he wouldn't. So we already know that he wasn't using lethal force against him. What's your argument against that? Have you ever seen Cap go vicious and fight to curbstomp his enemy? Want to imagine what it looks like? It looks worse than what he did to Spidey.
Originally posted by Metalmanx
Disclaimer: I love Cap. I think he's incredible. In my opinion, he wins against most street levelers and a couple tiers higher. But that's when his opponents are only superior in one or two categories.
We've danced this dance before in the Beast vs Cap thread. You argued that Beast was his superior in strength, agility and durability and that Cap couldn't win. Then after reviving the thread, I posted scans of Cap kicking the crap out of Beast and that ended that thread.
Fact is, you're wrong that Cap can only beat someone who only has one advantage. Beast is merely one example, Spidey is the second.
Originally posted by Metalmanx
Here are some more reasons:http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/1345/1553tm.jpg
http://img15.photobucket.com/albums...r-Man_32-03.jpg
http://img15.photobucket.com/albums...ectacular_7.jpg
Amaster martial artist with other physical enhancements, as well as poison-tipped claws, so Spidey couldn't even get scratched once:
http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/385/18522nh.jpg
Most of those scans don't work and the ones that do, show us characters who look like losers to me. Cap ain't a loser.
Originally posted by Metalmanx
Why won't Cap's punches hurt? Oh yea...:
http://img57.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dfg6fs.jpghttp://img506.imageshack.us/img506/1711/128jy.jpg
A 3rd rate villain who I can barely place (Mr. Fear?) and the Chameleon masquerading like Kraven? Yes, that second scan is indeed Chameleon mimicking Kraven. I have many, many Spidey comics under my belt. What do those prove? Cap strikes a lot harder than a wooden pole and we've seen how Spidey takes Cap's punches. He takes them a lot worse than those scans. If you believe that Cap can't knock out someone of Spidey's strength, he's knocked out far stronger than him. Dude, he knocks out Mr. Hyde for Sunday breakfast with his bare fists.
Originally posted by Metalmanx
Too fast:
http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/6592/bio0010pn.jpghttp://img34.imageshack.us/img34/4319/bio0024js.jpg
http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/6906/bio0058en.jpg
We've seen how Spidey's agility helps him in fights against Cap and even people like Iron Fist. It makes the fight tougher, but Spidey does not come out of those fights unscathed. He does not dance around them in a montage of shadows like he does in your scans. He never has. His agility + spider-sense still does not protect him from Cap's coordinated tactics and fighting abilities. This isn't about dodging punches and kicks. It's about being played by Cap because Cap knows you to a "T" and sets you up for his attacks.
Originally posted by Metalmanx
Too strong:
http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/9596/train5kv.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...Building_01.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...Building_07.jpg
Strength has never beaten Cap. We all know that. Iron Man level strength? Sure. Spiderman level strength? No. He's far below Mr. Hyde and Rhino, etc.
Originally posted by Metalmanx
Why Cap couldn't avoid the webbing if Spidey REALLY wanted him webbed up:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...Building_08.jpg
I can't see that scan. Please repost. Either way, Cap's already avoided his webbing. And it wasn't a piddly one stream webshot, it was a six stream shot. And like you said, if Spidey really wanted to avoid beating up Cap, then surely his webs would be the most convenient options? The proof is in the pudding... err the comics.
But let's step back and look at what I've done. I've refuted why those powers of Spidey do not work alone. Like how Mr. Hyde constantly gets knocked out by Cap. But Mr. Hyde does not have agility to go with his strength. And strength is surely much more potently used when you have agility. So why don't I still believe Spidey can put every single one of his advantages together and overwhelm Cap? Because he tried to and Cap doesn't let him. That's not fighting skills or jobber aura, that's tactics. As soon as Spidey realizes in his fight that he can't overwhelm Cap in close in this scan, he tries to step back and begins to think about using his webs and agility and-
-by then Cap doesn't even let Spidey finish his thought because he's thrown the shield, forcing Spidey to dodge its ricochets and deal with the shield. He stops Spidey from putting his advantages together by not letting up. And even in disabling his shield, Spidey leaves himself open to Cap. His spidey sense and agility weren't enough to avod that. He made Spidey fight his way and his strength, agility, webs and spider-sense did nothing. It wasn't until Spidey drew out his new Iron Spidey legs that Cap was given any pause whatsoever. Spidey wholeheartedly knows this, Cap knows everything about him and he was just treated like a chump. His Iron Spidey suit saved his spidey-butt. To brush aside the depiction of that fight, IN a Spidey comic, is pure ignorance. If you posted a comic fight of Spidey kicking the crap out of Cap and I ignored it by saying, "Oh but, people of Spidey's strength haven't been able to capitalize in these scans, and Cap fights ninjas in these scans and Cap fights Beast in that scan," you'd call bs on me too.
Face it, Spidey loses hard without his Iron Spidey outfit. I know it, Spidey knows it and says it, you hate it. Hating it does not disprove it though. Lastly, if Cap can use his tactics and fighting ability to negate Spidey's powers and moves and abilities so cleanly, you sure as hell can expect him to be able to do the same once he's seen Spidey's legs in action.
Cap 7/10 against classic Spidey
Cap 7/10 against Iron Spidey now that he's fought his Iron Spidey suit.
