Originally posted by Metalmanx
Just a quick question, Alfheim:Do you believe Cap can lift this 5 TON truck up and over his head?
http://www.rangerover.f9.co.uk/REME/H/H04.JPG
Or this one?
http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/systems/dvic358.jpg
Or this one?
http://www.state.sd.us/doa/Wildland_Fire/Rural_Fire_Assistance/5-tonb4.jpg
Originally posted by Metalmanx
To be quite honest, no. The thing is I have never seen Cap lift up a car but he has done stuff that could suggest he might be able to do it, such as tearing a steel door off a tractor and using it as a shield.
Tearing a still door is not a lifting feat but you still have to be damn strong to do it.
Originally posted by Alfheim
To be quite honest, no. The thing is I have never seen Cap lift up a car but he has done stuff that could suggest he might be able to do it, such as tearing a steel door off a tractor and using it as a shield.Tearing a still door is not a lifting feat but you still have to be damn strong to do it.
Exactly. Cap cannot lift 5 tons. Nor could he lift 4. Or 3.
I'd give him 2 at the most, and that's not downplaying Cap at all. 2 tons is still mighty strong.
Originally posted by Metalmanx
Exactly. Cap cannot lift 5 tons. Nor could he lift 4. Or 3.I'd give him 2 at the most, and that's not downplaying Cap at all. 2 tons is still mighty strong.
I agree. I see Cap right at two tons. Along with Wolverine, and perhaps with Deadpool being a 'scoche' higher.
Is that how you spell scoche? Scoach? Scosh? Skosh? .....
Originally posted by AlfheimOnly because you have the comprehension of a doormat. I'll make sure from now on when creating hypotheticals around people with the comprehensive abilities of a shoe to only ever use the pronoun "one" instead of "you" pl.
See below.Well this is the thing you used the word YOU. Hey you know what though, again this could be hypothetical but I think this could be an easy misunderstanding to make. Especially after you said this:
Originally posted by AlfheimNo it was when you said this.
Where did I say Cap has superhuman strength sufficient to throw a shield to catch a missle. Where? Can you find it for me?What i said was this.
Originally posted by AlfheimAnd three people thought you were insinuating that Captain America had cl100 strength. Not an unfounded assumption considering your post history and that you're as articulate as a dying giraffe.
He needs class 100 strength to throw the shield to catch up with a missle. Cap has been able to throw his sheld hard enough to hurt people in the class 100 range or 75-85 ton range.The fact that Cap has knowledge of pressure points does not explain it he would still need alot of superhuman strength to injure them.
And it's an incorrect assertion anyway.
Originally posted by AlfheimBullseye has repeatedly done bullshit throwing feats throughout his entire characterization, explained by his accuracy.
I will explain why I said it but i'll be wasting my time. Cap does not have sufficient strength to throw a shield to catch a ballistic missle nor does he have sufficient strength to hurt class 100s. He does both through skill the same way Bullseye can make a paper aeroplane go through a window or kill somebody with a toothpick from a 100 yards.
You have one missile feat - requiring a Mach 10 shield throw. False analogy there.
Further false analogy in saying that when he hurts cl100's of which you've only named Namor, and frankly hurting Namor considering the things he's taken before is in itself PIS, it means he'd need cl100 strength and therefore this validates the shield throw. It doesn't. These are unlike things.
It's beyond him. It's an outlier. It's SvFL. And it's bullshit.
Originally posted by AlfheimLet's take the full quote of this shall we:
Ok lets have a look at this.
I say Iron Spidey not using stealth mode is PIS. You say:
Therefore this means that Iron Spidey not using stealth mode is CIS and NOT PIS
You then say this
Hey wait a minute I thought this was said earlier on....
So wait a minute if you state that something is CIS and not PIS how can they be both? Now I understand that afterwards you said that it could be a mixture of both...[B] but you couldn't admit to saying that it was one or not the other before [/B]
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
That was not me saying if PIS not CIS,
Originally posted by xmarksthespotDo you know what a retraction is?
That was not me saying if PIS not CIS, that was me saying that Spider-Man not using stealth mode all the time is more CIS than PIS. I don't recall saying if A then not B, if so I retract that.
Originally posted by AlfheimBut but but. You're an idiot. I'll make another retraction, it's not like conversing with Ralph Wiggum, Ralph has at least rudimentary understanding and isn't obsessed with trying to convince people a character he's infatuated with can win against people that they can't.
BUT
I say Iron Spidey not using stealth mode is PIS. You say:
BUT
I say Iron Spidey not using stealth mode is PIS. You say:
BUT
I say Iron Spidey not using stealth mode is PIS. You say:
No more exchanges with you, they make my brain ache, and I don't care anymore.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Only because you have the comprehension of a doormat. I'll make sure from now on when creating hypotheticals around people with the comprehensive abilities of a shoe to only ever use the pronoun "one" instead of "you" pl.
Fine.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
No it was when you said this. And three people thought you were insinuating that Captain America had cl100 strength. Not an unfounded assumption considering your post history and that you're as articulate as a dying giraffe.
Ok, but I explained afterwards anyway.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
And it's an incorrect assertion anyway.
Bullseye has repeatedly done bullshit throwing feats throughout his entire characterization, explained by his accuracy.
Accuracy again still does not explain it. I want a scientific explanation. Like you gave Wolverine and Cap missle feat.
You have one missile feat - requiring a Mach 10 shield throw. False analogy there.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Further false analogy in saying that when he hurts cl100's of which you've only named Namor,
OK theres Hulk and Abomination.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
and frankly hurting Namor considering the things he's taken before is in itself PIS,
Yes but Cap has been doing this on a regular basis.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
It means he'd need cl100 strength and therefore this validates the shield throw. It doesn't. These are unlike things.
Do both feats need alot of superhuman strength, yes. Thats the similarity.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Let's take the full quote of this shall we:
Do you know what a retraction is?
Thats not a proper retraction. In a court of law there is guitly and not guilty, not maybe. You said "if" there is no if about it. You did say it.
If the sun is shining in your face you dont say if. "I did say that statement, I retract it." not "If I did say that statement I retract it."...when you clearly did say it.
Originally posted by Alfheim.but if Iron Spidey does not use stealth mode that is PIS. I dont know who Karate Kid...the name sucks as well.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
And no, that would be CIS, character being retarded.
Simple that doesnt mean both CIS and PIS it means CIS and NOT PIS. It doesnt even mean its more CIS, it means CIS and NOT PIS.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
understanding and isn't obsessed with trying to convince people a character he's infatuated with can win against people that they can't.
Actually I just started this thread beacuse they started the Wolverine and Spiderman thread again, thats all dont really care who wins.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
No more exchanges with you, they make my brain ache, and I don't care anymore.
Well at any rate I'll try to be more coherent.
It's beyond him. It's an outlier. It's SvFL. And it's bullshit.
This I disagree with, considering for Bullseye is beyond him as well much more so, since Cap is enhanced unlike Bullseye who is just a regular human.
Plus Cap has intercepted Thor's thrown hammer. To even stagger Ironman and Hulk with it. To even hurt weakened Korvac, who could still take shots from a very strong Wonderman mind you. Cap's shield throws are pretty crazy to even heatseeking at times crazy.
The funny thing is you do know by exepting mach 1 Bullseye and his crazyiness, you have to also exept that guys like Cap/Daredevil dodge his throws and lots of them? Does that mean that there moving at mach 1 as well? Which also sounds absurd, but it is what it is. And the point of that is so.....what.....if Cap and Bullseye throw shields or weapons like so, since in fact it does not give them a majority on Spiderman. Spidey is the faster and the stronger.
On Spiderman's record he has had the advantage on book against most street level characters. The only ones he has never hold a great edge has been that long ago Shang-chi fight and Cap. But it doesn't change the fact that most agree that Spiderman takes the majority.
But it seems to me you just want to accept Bullseye feats and ignore Cap feats. Which is a double-standard.
Originally posted by Daredevil1You seem relatively new and may not have familiarised yourself with the forum rules. When something is repeated so many times that it is the norm and not the outlier then SvFl does not always, but may still, apply.
This I disagree with, considering for Bullseye is beyond him as well much more so, since Cap is enhanced unlike Bullseye who is just a regular human.
If one wants to use the missile feat, and say that it is due to Captain America's skill with the shield, one would need numerous analogous feats where the shield travelled at comparable speeds.
Originally posted by Daredevil1Storm once dodged Thor's hammer throw. Operative word: once. Also it would depend on the vectors what speed would be required anyway.
Plus Cap has intercepted Thor's thrown hammer.
Originally posted by Daredevil1I recall seeing him punch Korvac and manage to hurt him too. 😐
To even stagger Ironman and Hulk with it. To even hurt weakened Korvac, who could still take shots from a very strong Wonderman mind you. Cap's shield throws are pretty crazy to even heatseeking at times crazy.
Hitting someone with the shield and causing them pain due to knowledge of pressure points etc is not analogous to throwing it and managing to catch up to a ballistic missile. Additionally when one takes into consideration the durability of these characters when facing other damage, such things can often be construed as PIS.
Originally posted by Daredevil1See above about SvFL. Many of the things Bullseye's does are bullshit, but he does them consistently.
The funny thing is you do know by exepting mach 1 Bullseye and his crazyiness, you have to also exept that guys like Cap/Daredevil dodge his throws and lots of them? Does that mean that there moving at mach 1 as well? Which also sounds absurd, but it is what it is. And the point of that is so.....what.....if Cap and Bullseye throw shields or weapons like so, since in fact it does not give them a majority on Spiderman. Spidey is the faster and the stronger.
Also reread I've specifically stated that regardless of whether one accepts Bullseye's feats as valid that they do not in any way imply that he has superstrength or Mach speed throwing. In fact you basically answered your own question. Why argue for disregarding this feat, it would be used in a manner as you have in your hypotheticals.
Originally posted by Daredevil1One thing we can agree on at least.
On Spiderman's record he has had the advantage on book against most street level characters. The only ones he has never hold a great edge has been that long ago Shang-chi fight and Cap. But it doesn't change the fact that most agree that Spiderman takes the majority.
Originally posted by Daredevil1False analogy. Also you act as if by calling this one feat bullshit, two if one counts the dodging lasers in zero gravity, I am unwilling to accept all other feats.
But it seems to me you just want to accept Bullseye feats and ignore Cap feats. Which is a double-standard.
You seem relatively new and may not have familiarised yourself with the forum rules. When something is repeated so many times that it is the norm and not the outlier then SvFl does not always, but may still, apply.If one wants to use the missile feat, and say that it is due to Captain America's skill with the shield, one would need numerous analogous feats where the shield travelled at comparable speeds.
Deflecting Thor's hammer throw which was thrown first is somewhat comparable to targeting a high-flying Baron Blood above the clouds to tracking and targeting a Quick-Silver, who was moving so fast at the time air itself was a barrier on Quick-Silver as the shield throw bounced off of QS, but the fact that he could target him at these speeds is impressive. To targeting a Super-speedster in Avengers with the help of loads of skill as stated on book. And Cap's done that to Thor's hammer twice to even keep up with a laser beam, while with Kazar's kid.
Storm once dodged Thor's hammer throw. Operative word: once. Also it would depend on the vectors what speed would be required anyway.
Thats for a Storm feat then, as many street level characters also dodge Bullseye mach throws since you accept Bullseye's feats very well as I read above. Plus Thor tends to hold back on many characters, that Cap deflect with shield throw, is not the same since it wasn't thrown at Cap but at someone who Thor thought was a villain IIRC.
I recall seeing him punch Korvac and manage to hurt him too.Hitting someone with the shield and causing them pain due to knowledge of pressure points etc is not analogous to throwing it and managing to catch up to a ballistic missile. Additionally when one takes into consideration the durability of these characters when facing other damage, such things can often be construed as PIS.
Only PIS when its an Outlier and not done often, feats that are done way too often all considering for Cap. But you bring up a good point on pressure-points/skill. But I cited other speedy-throws above. The fact you want to piss this though with Cap constantly stunning top tiers lots of times, tells me you either don't look at most Cap books.
Why bother even citing pressure-points if you don't even accept it?
If skill is enough to slightly hurt them.....don't you think skill is enough to hit speedy targets?
False analogy.
Well have to agree to disagree then.
I haven't seen the Baron Blood incident so I won't comment on that.
Other than that.
Quicksilver in his early days ran at something ~175 mph.
Thor's Hammer can be thrown at 3c iirc. So I imagine you're using something that would be an outlier to even the missile feat to say the missile feat isn't an outlier to every single other time he's thrown the shield in his 65 year history at non-Mach speeds.
Laser beams in comics are perhaps the worst examples to use for speed feats besides bullets.
Originally posted by Daredevil1You either misread, or are being deliberately obtuse.
Bullseye mach throws since you accept Bullseye's feats very well as I read above.
Originally posted by Daredevil1There's no exemption from PIS due to repetition. Regardless of how many times Deathstroke shoots or stabs a Flash or Kid Flash, it's PIS.
Only PIS when its an Outlier
Originally posted by Daredevil1Gladly. Bored to hell of this thread and its circles.
Well have to agree to disagree then.
