cap vs spider-man

Originally posted by Alfheim
Im aware of that my point is this. If Cap is capable of beating somebody who is as fast as Namor and beat somebody else at the same time. Even if RS hit him he should be able to react...hers Cap dodging a speedster.

http://img149.imageshack.us/my.php?image=avengers153096xu.jpg

If Cap can dodge the above how is a nonsuperhuman fast RS going to blindside Cap.

Furthermore Cap has been able to take superhuman shots before. All the evidence indicates that RS was superfast.

Heres those scans again.

http://img331.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamerica366104by.jpg
http://img331.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamerica366117pi.jpg
http://img335.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamerica366121gn.jpg

No offense, but that guy isn't that fast. If Beast hadn't dodged him, too, I would've given you that. But he did, so it's still a good feat, but nothing saying that Cap can handle a fight against a good speedster.

No no, I wanted to see those RS ones again, if you don't mind.

I don't feel that the evidence supports RS having super-speed. He just had the upper hand from the get-go and never gave it up.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
No offense, but that guy isn't that fast. If Beast hadn't dodged him, too, I would've given you that. But he did, so it's still a good feat, but nothing saying that Cap can handle a fight against a good speedster.

So what you're telling me is that Beast is slow now?

Originally posted by Metalmanx

No no, I wanted to see those RS ones again, if you don't mind.

Oh ok

http://img413.imageshack.us/my.php?image=capbatterinram2zu5.jpg
http://img72.imageshack.us/my.php?image=capbatterinram3ku4.jpg
http://img237.imageshack.us/my.php?image=capbatterinram4sq5.jpg
http://img72.imageshack.us/my.php?image=capbatterinram5tm4.jpg
http://img150.imageshack.us/my.php?image=capbatterinram6lj1.jpg
http://img226.imageshack.us/my.php?image=capbatterinram7qt7.jpg
http://img134.imageshack.us/my.php?image=capbatterinram8wv7.jpg

Originally posted by Metalmanx

I don't feel that the evidence supports RS having super-speed. He just had the upper hand from the get-go and never gave it up.

Well I dont know what to do. I showed you evidence of Cap dodging a speedster, you then used this as evidence to prove that Beast was slow.

I then showed you Cap beating somebody who was as fast as Namor and he beat somebody else at the same time. *shrug*

Originally posted by Alfheim

I then showed you Cap beating somebody who was as fast as Namor and he beat somebody else at the same time. *shrug*

when someone is pitted against Spiderman, Metalmanx tosses logic out the window 😛

There you go.

http://img230.imageshack.us/my.php?image=avengersannual08245av.jpg

I hope you get the point here. The point is Cap was fast enough to tag Quicksilver with his shield.

http://img139.imageshack.us/my.php?image=avengersv1075p071mq.jpg

*waits for "Look cap got hit with his own shield!"

Originally posted by Alfheim
So what you're telling me is that Beast is slow now?

Oh ok

http://img413.imageshack.us/my.php?image=capbatterinram2zu5.jpg
http://img72.imageshack.us/my.php?image=capbatterinram3ku4.jpg
http://img237.imageshack.us/my.php?image=capbatterinram4sq5.jpg
http://img72.imageshack.us/my.php?image=capbatterinram5tm4.jpg
http://img150.imageshack.us/my.php?image=capbatterinram6lj1.jpg
http://img226.imageshack.us/my.php?image=capbatterinram7qt7.jpg
http://img134.imageshack.us/my.php?image=capbatterinram8wv7.jpg

Well I dont know what to do. I showed you evidence of Cap dodging a speedster, you then used this as evidence to prove that Beast was slow.

I then showed you Cap beating somebody who was as fast as Namor and he beat somebody else at the same time. *shrug*

No no. I'm sorry, you misunderstood me. I didn't mean to say that Beast was slow. Because he's not. I put Beast's and Cap's reflex speed just about on the same level, with Beast being just a bit higher though. I think it's fine that Cap dodged that speedster. Sorry if there was confusion.

And honestly, he didn't really "beat somebody else at the same time". He gave the guy an elbow shot that apparently put him down. Wasn't much of a "beating". And he seemed to have plenty of time, too, since the dude he was fighting was distracting from the pain inflicted via shield throw.

Not only did the strong guy only have "most" (not all) of Namor's strength and speed (although he didn't appear to get Namor's durability), he didn't know how to use it. Which I figured you of all people realize that the powers without the skills to back them up does not equal an amazing fighter. Cap out-fought the guy and had the upper hand the entire time.

RS, on the other hand, had the upper hand from the beginning with his superior strength. The blows he delt Cap didn't give Steve the chance to counter. He was being pummelled.

Originally posted by Alfheim
There you go.

http://img230.imageshack.us/my.php?image=avengersannual08245av.jpg

I hope you get the point here. The point is Cap was fast enough to tag Quicksilver with his shield.

http://img139.imageshack.us/my.php?image=avengersv1075p071mq.jpg

*waits for "Look cap got hit with his own shield!"

I don't get the point of the second scan. How does that prove that Cap can tag Quicksilver when he..you know...didn't?

Originally posted by Alfheim
There you go.

http://img230.imageshack.us/my.php?image=avengersannual08245av.jpg

I hope you get the point here. The point is Cap was fast enough to tag Quicksilver with his shield.

http://img139.imageshack.us/my.php?image=avengersv1075p071mq.jpg

*waits for "Look cap got hit with his own shield!"

I wasn't even going to point out that Cap got hit with his own shield.

But it seems clear to me that Quicksilver planned on Cap throwing his shield at him.

"Your first error, Captain America! For, at the rate at which I am traveling---...My very speed sets up a wall of wind...with somewhat surprising results!" The surprise being Cap getting pwned in the face with his own shield.

Seems like he was just waiting for Cap to throw the shield. You honestly believe Quicksilver (of all people) could NOT have dodged the shield if he had wanted to?

Originally posted by marvelprince
I don't get the point of the second scan. How does that prove that Cap can tag Quicksilver when he..you know...didn't?

To me it looks like QS easily reflected the shield. If we look at point of impact QS isn't even there. He's already whipped up a wind to return the shield

cap pimp slaps sm

spiderman grabbed bullets. why not caps shield?😉

cap can hit sm hes out cold 😛

Originally posted by Metalmanx
No no. I'm sorry, you misunderstood me. I didn't mean to say that Beast was slow. Because he's not. I put Beast's and Cap's reflex speed just about on the same level, with Beast being just a bit higher though. I think it's fine that Cap dodged that speedster. Sorry if there was confusion.

..meh.

Originally posted by Metalmanx

And honestly, he didn't really "beat somebody else at the same time". He gave the guy an elbow shot that apparently put him down. Wasn't much of a "beating". And he seemed to have plenty of time, too, since the dude he was fighting was distracting from the pain inflicted via shield throw.

Well he only had plenty of time because its Cap. If you look at the scans again, Cap threw his shield and that other guy (I think hes called the wizard) atacked him while he shield was returning to him.
The passing of time between Caps shield throw and the shield returning to him must have been like a split second.

If you look at the scans again when his shield returned to him he caught it and elbowed wizard at the same time.

So lets put it this way Cap was fighting The Controller and stopped himself from being jumped on by The Wizard at the same time.

Originally posted by Metalmanx

Not only did the strong guy only have "most" (not all) of Namor's strength and speed (although he didn't appear to get Namor's durability),

When you get superhuman strength you gain superhuman durability. Namor has been hurt by Cap loads of times.

Originally posted by Metalmanx

he didn't know how to use it. Which I figured you of all people realize that the powers without the skills to back them up does not equal an amazing fighter. Cap out-fought the guy and had the upper hand the entire time.

So its not a good feat?

Originally posted by Metalmanx

RS, on the other hand, had the upper hand from the beginning with his superior strength. The blows he delt Cap didn't give Steve the chance to counter. He was being pummelled.

Well you explain it to me. I have scans of him dodging two speedsters. Ive got scans of him fighting The Controller and not getting snuck up on by The Wizard.

All of a sudden The Red Skull gets to beat Cap with just superhuman strength. You have no evidence you are just talking.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
I wasn't even going to point out that Cap got hit with his own shield.

But it seems clear to me that Quicksilver planned on Cap throwing his shield at him.

"Your first error, Captain America! For, at the rate at which I am traveling---...My very speed sets up a wall of wind...with somewhat surprising results!" The surprise being Cap getting pwned in the face with his own shield.

Seems like he was just waiting for Cap to throw the shield. You honestly believe Quicksilver (of all people) could NOT have dodged the shield if he had wanted to?

Forget it.

Originally posted by marvelprince
To me it looks like QS easily reflected the shield. If we look at point of impact QS isn't even there. He's already whipped up a wind to return the shield

Forget it.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Well he only had plenty of time because its Cap. If you look at the scans again, Cap threw his shield and that other guy (I think hes called the wizard) atacked him while he shield was returning to him.
The passing of time between Caps shield throw and the shield returning to him must have been like a split second.

If you look at the scans again when his shield returned to him he caught it and elbowed wizard at the same time.

So lets put it this way Cap was fighting The Controller and stopped himself from being jumped on by The Wizard at the same time.

I don't really know how else to say it. The Wizard didn't appear very threatening to Cap in the slightest. He put him down with a quick elbow shot, almost as a second thought. He barely took his fight away from the Controller, if any at all really.

I know what you want from it, man, but it's just not there. ❌ Now if Wizard had actually put up a decent fight against Cap while Cap was still fighting Controller, then that'd be a feat.

Originally posted by Alfheim
When you get superhuman strength you gain superhuman durability. Namor has been hurt by Cap loads of times.

So its not a good feat?

I never said it wasn't really. It's still a good feat. It's more skill-based than anything though. Cap knows how to hurt people. That's why he can hurt people like Namor, because a lot of time they just tend to take the shot when they could easily dodge it. Namor especially, he shouldn't EVER lose to Cap. Sorry, but's true. As fast as he is, as strong as he is, as durable as he is, as fast as his reflexes are...he shouldn't ever give Cap the win.

Originally posted by Alfheim
All of a sudden The Red Skull gets to beat Cap with just superhuman strength. You have no evidence you are just talking.

Again, I dunno how else to tell you. RS already had him pinned and maintained his upper hand against him. Did you understand my momentum argument at all? I mean, RS was decimating Cap. Each blow, I'm sure, was extremely painful (even though no bones were broken, I know). Did you not notice how Cap couldn't even get up all the way when RS did take his time with him? Come on, dude. He just overwhelmed. RS took it to him.

Do you truly believe Cap could ever defeat the Hulk without a plot device? Hulk's just strength as his offense, too (essentially, at least). I mean, you seem to think that strength isn't a factor against Cap. When, well, it pretty much is. 😬

People just dont get it. Ok, let me explain it again. Spiderman is very fast and he has great agility and strength but when it comes to someone like cap for instance that has agility of his own ( not greater than spiderman) and strength of his own (not even close to spiderman) and speed of his own ( that is almost on par with spiderman) but also know almost all of the fighting techniques on the planet and is a great tactician and can read your moves, Spiderman aint beating nobody like that. Captain america, wolverine, sabertooth, mr.x, lady deathstike, deadpool, silver samarai, black panther, daredevil, etc.... they are too good for spiderman just like spiderman said in the fight that someone just put up with spiderman loosing to captain america. Spiderman is awesome but he is leagues under when fighting someone that is a great fighter and has almost everything that he has and is also a great tactian. I have witness spiderman lose to wolverine, almost got killed by sabertooth, get mud stomped by silver samarai, getting the f***** beaten out of him by daredevil. Spiderman just cant do well against fighters that have the capabilities of dodging his webbing and bringing the fight into close quaters, something that spiderman aint good at.

Originally posted by carver9
People just dont get it. Ok, let me explain it again. Spiderman is very fast and he has great agility and strength but when it comes to someone like cap for instance that has agility of his own ( not greater than spiderman) and strength of his own (not even close to spiderman) and speed of his own ( that is almost on par with spiderman) but also know almost all of the fighting techniques on the planet and is a great tactician and can read your moves, Spiderman aint beating nobody like that. Captain america, wolverine, sabertooth, mr.x, lady deathstike, deadpool, silver samarai, black panther, daredevil, etc.... they are too good for spiderman just like spiderman said in the fight that someone just put up with spiderman loosing to captain america. Spiderman is awesome but he is leagues under when fighting someone that is a great fighter and has almost everything that he has and is also a great tactian. I have witness spiderman lose to wolverine, almost got killed by sabertooth, get mud stomped by silver samarai, getting the f***** beaten out of him by daredevil. Spiderman just cant do well against fighters that have the capabilities of dodging his webbing and bringing the fight into close quaters, something that spiderman aint good at.

Yes he is beating all of those fighters, the only one's that can really out do him ( which is a debatable issue) are wolverine and Sabertooth, mainly because of their healing factors and Adamantium skeletons. And between wolverine and spidey i would say it's pretty much a tie. Problem with captain america is that he does not posess a healing factor that allows him to shake off Class 20 punches. I mean the civil war fight was good and all but had it gone any longer spidey would've owned cap. I would say that spidey only needs 3-4 good punches against cap and its a pretty much over. Wolverine and Cap posses almost the same amount of skill ( wolverine slightly higher) but what allows wolverine to get 5 victories out of 10 against spiderman is the ability to shrug off the hits that cap unfortunetly does not have the luxury of.

Originally posted by jasonk3
Yes he is beating all of those fighters, the only one's that can really out do him ( which is a debatable issue) are wolverine and Sabertooth, mainly because of their healing factors and Adamantium skeletons. And between wolverine and spidey i would say it's pretty much a tie. Problem with captain america is that he does not posess a healing factor that allows him to shake off Class 20 punches. I mean the civil war fight was good and all but had it gone any longer spidey would've owned cap. I would say that spidey only needs 3-4 good punches against cap and its a pretty much over. Wolverine and Cap posses almost the same amount of skill ( wolverine slightly higher) but what allows wolverine to get 5 victories out of 10 against spiderman is the ability to shrug off the hits that cap unfortunetly does not have the luxury of.

Im sorry but spiderman aint beating captain america or wolverine. Wolverine just have to much under his belt for spiderman to beat him and the healing factor isnt what im talking about, wolverine is just a good fighter. Spiderman dont know how to fight, he depends sololy on his powers whereas wolverine dodging and agility is 2nd nature. If you pit wolverine and spiderman in a fight 10 times, out of the 10 times they fight wolverine WILL tag spiderman and that would be the end of the fight. Lets put it like this, toad is faster than wolverine and hes more agile than wolverine and can also jump about 50 feet in the air and he's also stronger than wolverine, does that mean that he can beat wolverine, no it dont. Wolverine have owned toad numerous of times. Another example, puck is stronger than wolverine, more agile than wolverine, waaay stronger than wolverine and more durable than wolverine, and faster than wolverine but he has gotten owned by wolverine on more than one occasion. Another example, beast is stronger than wolverine, faster than wolverine, and more agile than wolverine, and also posses a healing factor of his owned but he has also gotten owned by wolverine. Spiderman dont have what it takes to beat wolverine, just like all the other fighters that I name. If kraven, blade, vulture, kingpin, some dude that I just read out of his comic that wears a frog uniform (that koed him), and daredevil can tag him and beat him, what makes you think that wolverine or cap cant do the same. Cap owned spiderman, deal with it and if they meet again, he will own him again.

Originally posted by carver9
Im sorry but spiderman aint beating captain america or wolverine. Wolverine just have to much under his belt for spiderman to beat him and the healing factor isnt what im talking about, wolverine is just a good fighter. Spiderman dont know how to fight, he depends sololy on his powers whereas wolverine dodging and agility is 2nd nature. If you pit wolverine and spiderman in a fight 10 times, out of the 10 times they fight wolverine WILL tag spiderman and that would be the end of the fight. Lets put it like this, toad is faster than wolverine and hes more agile than wolverine and can also jump about 50 feet in the air and he's also stronger than wolverine, does that mean that he can beat wolverine, no it dont. Wolverine have owned toad numerous of times. Another example, puck is stronger than wolverine, more agile than wolverine, waaay stronger than wolverine and more durable than wolverine, and faster than wolverine but he has gotten owned by wolverine on more than one occasion. Another example, beast is stronger than wolverine, faster than wolverine, and more agile than wolverine, and also posses a healing factor of his owned but he has also gotten owned by wolverine. Spiderman dont have what it takes to beat wolverine, just like all the other fighters that I name. If kraven, blade, vulture, kingpin, some dude that I just read out of his comic that wears a frog uniform (that koed him), and daredevil can tag him and beat him, what makes you think that wolverine or cap cant do the same. Cap owned spiderman, deal with it and if they meet again, he will own him again.

Lets not get off topic ok. This isn't Spider-Man vs Wolverine here. Secondly please I beg of you. Show me the scans where Cap owned Spider-Man. Cause I seem to remember a Spider-Man who wasn't even going all out still having an advantage at the fights end.

Spider-Man is much stronger than Cap, he's way more agile plus he is much faster. Where do you even get that Cap is almost as fast as Spider-Man? He's not. He's fast, but not in the same speed league as SM. Wolverine I can see hanging with Spider-Man cause of his healing factor that lets him takes damage, but Cap doesn't have that. He also can't inflict as much damage. You saw what those blows by Cap accomplished. Nothing. Spider-Man said he was numb but come on, we all saw him moving just fine. Cap is outclassed here and all you've done AGAIN is prove that you know next to nothing about Spider-Man.

Originally posted by marvelprince
You saw what those blows by Cap accomplished. Nothing. Spider-Man said he was numb but come on, we all saw him moving just fine.

Gezzz. The whole point was to slow him down. How fast are you going to move with numb legs?

Originally posted by Alfheim
Gezzz. The whole point was to slow him down. How fast are you going to move with numb legs?

Apparently still fast enough to dodge the shield

Originally posted by marvelprince
Apparently still fast enough to dodge the shield

What so you didnt read that Cap wanted Spiderman to dodge the shield.? Oh and his legs were numb after he webbed the shield. You got all your facts wrong.

Anyway Spiderman wins 7/10