Originally posted by Apolloknight
Hmmm after staying up on all these arguments for the last few days, I'm going to have to agree with Affheim on this, not totally, but on some points.When your talking about guys like Taskmaster, Black Panther, Shang Chi, and of Course Capt, These guys are Martial Arts Gods, They are greater then any Martial artist to ever exist on the planet earth, its like being Bruce lee, jet lee, Steven segul, jackie chan, and chuck norris all at the same time [b]x10.
The fact that Cap can master a martial a technique in minutes is a superpower in itself, it takes real life martial artist years, and sometimes their entire lives to master a single style or technique. Cap is a Tactics god, he has military and martial arts training in terms of combat strategy and tactics. Peter, although very smart and combat worthy, is nothing compared to someone of Captain Americas Caliber in Combat strategy and adjusting on the fly, yes I said it, NOTHING. Which is why cap is/was leader and not spidey.
People are getting Science logic, which is how guys like spidey and Reed win their fights, confused with Combat Logic, which is what guys like Cap excel at.
Cap is similar to Black Panther, Their mind is there greatest weapon in combat, always thinking 3 steps ahead, knowing what there opponent is going to do next, its almost reading their mind by watching their movements and knowing their foes next most logical move to better their position in a fight, only thing is, cap already had figured out what his foe was going to try to do 10 seconds ago.
Yes everybody argues for Spideys speed and agility, I know he is an agility god and he has speed to match, but guys like cap, are not that outmatched when it comes to this. In Civil war 1 Cap jumped out of window onto a moving jet, OMG, that in itself would give spidey a degree of difficulty to perform.
Cap is capable of sprinting 60 miles per hour, and can probably go faster if he exerted himself with maximum effort for a short burst. Check the Guinness book of world records, the fastest human to ever recorded ran 27mph. The world record in the mile is 3:43 sec. Cap runs a mile in just over a minute 😐
My point is, its going to take the human race (real life) probably 100,000 years before our evolution decides to catch up with Capitan America. We all sit here and say (and i was once guilty of this also) "man he is just peak human, blah, blah blah, whats he gonna do?". Have you ever met a man that was the Pinnacle of human perfection? If Captain America was a real man in real life he would be "Superhuman" in all its meaning.
Spidy is dangerous because of his strength and webbing, his speed and agility can be handled, as it has been by countless other street levelers who excel in combat logic. I mean this isnt Quicksilver+Mr Fantastic here.
Another thing I wanted to bring up (and I think this was addressed either in this Thread or another) is Cap is hitting with much more then 800lb of force, I heard there was a scan of him benching 2,200lbs, if thats the case he hits with much harder force then that. Think about it....
Your average Martial artist doesn't do much weight training, yet they hit twice as hard as a man who does lift weights with no combat training, its because they know how to throw a punch or how to throw a kick, I saw this martial arts show on History channel (love that channel) and they were using a machine with a pad connected to it to gauge how much force someone was striking someone with, and one guy was kicking with over 2500 pounds of force, that is, "like getting hit with a car" exact words form the narrator. On top of this, the guy hitting the pad could'nt of been more then 5"8 maybe 5"9, 160lbs. Crazy.
Now imagine Cap, not only one of the greatest martial artist in comics, but possibly the most perfect in terms of human perfection, how hard do you think his punches hit, how hard do you think his kicks hit?
Now spidey is class 15-20, yet I guarantee you his punches and kicks hit with WAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYY less force then that. His style is unorthodox, unchecked, it has no technique, no efficiency, with guys like Cap, every punch means something. With spidey his punches and kicks are "unsupervised", so to say, and what saves his ass from this poor style of fighting is his speed and agility. If spiderman had no superstrength, his punches and kicks would feel like feathers to some of our top street levelers, do to the fact that he really "doesn't" know how to throw a punch. He is always flipping upside down, doing a twisting back hand spring with a somersault and throws out a punch or kick and the process that hits with a few tons of force, heck and that might be pushing it. Without his strength, that same unchecked kick would hit with only a few 100lbs of force, if that, yup, true story. And dont get me wrong if spiderman were to stand toe to toe with cap and throw his hardest class 20+ punch, cap would probably be in the hospital real quick, but the day he decides to stop flipping around and go toe to toe with cap, is when Pete goes down hard, verily.
I think Ive said my part, And I'm only arguing this because I realized that Peak humans in comics do not exist in real life, and wont for quite some time. So who are we to put checks and balances on what Cap can do, (Although Im still not 100% with that whole hitting a missle thing) if he has proven capable of it, hey, just accept it for what it is and move on. Until you meet the Pinnacle of human Perfection in real life, a man who has benched 2,200lbs, ran 60mph, has near unlimited stamina, and can roll with lasers, then you can tell me what he can and cannot do.
And for those of you who think Im saying cap will take the majority Im not, Im just saying he has a much better chance then most of you are giving him. [/B]