Solving the Debate Of Jack/Liz

Originally posted by LovelyOne
LOL i know^^ and katelovespirate did you mean LIZ slept with him? 😂 and yeh it was a twang of jealousy...

The way she looks when Jack mentions that about her having the letters in a dishonest way whilst Will set off with honor is so funny, she's like "well I never!"

and its so true..Will goes and does the honorable thing ALWAYS.

and it's really funny how he takes them anyway..😂

something else makes me laugh about that after she says to jack "yes beckett did mention something about a chest" jack turns and looks at her right in the face..she sort of flinches 😂

That whole "Will told you I know how to handle a sword?" then the "like I said....PERSUADE ME" thats SOOOO hot! and the way she ..doesn't know what to do or how to respond and just storms off makes me crack up.😂

then smiles bless her 😄

Oh yes, the persuade me scene is really very HOTT. I love that when he says, "As I said, Persuade Me." She knows what he's implying that's why she is smiling when Norrington approaches her - she's imaging having to persuade Jack...I love Jack's face - remember his backs to her when she whispers to him, "Did Will tell you he taught me how to handle a sword?. His facial expression is awesome. That's what makes Johnny so great in this role - it's all about his expressions and mannerisms, man he's awesome. Still can't he's never won an oscar.

The part about the chest - that is hysterical. She gives him the weirdest facial expression - Gosh, just love it, love it.....can't get enough of it.

Originally posted by LovelyOne
I agree with you.

I think the compass was REALLY pointing at Elizabeth though..because it pointed to her before too when he looked at it. If it suddenly works in those two moments then how could it have been broken throughout the entire movie? It was pointing to Liz the whole time IMO.

He would have gone back any way to save them all even without looking at the compass 🙂 The fact that Liz is the first person he see's and protects clearly symbolizes what the compass was poining to just moments before.

Very True - I hadn't thought of it that way, although you have said that before it finally clicks. It can be just coincidence that all of sudden he's there - and it's her he sees, Not Gibbs, Not Will ---Liz...I love the way the hallow of light is around him - when she looks up at him - and that angle shot - pure heroism....

Originally posted by Syren
But it's not Liz who's brought him to a vocal standstill, it's the loss of the rum. She burned it but he's not fumbling his words because she makes him feel weak at the knees, it's because the rum has gone. She just happens to be the one who was there when he became vulnerable, not necessarily emotionally vulnerable either. Just an alcoholic who can't see a way to save the blessed rum.

But if you read the biography of Jack Sparrow - he is not really a drunk - that's an act he puts on to keep others around him off guard. (But he does love his rum, but it doesn't mean he's a chronic drunk) He never wants anyone to see his true self. However, Elizabeth has witnessed some of his more vunerable moments. He's usually a clown around most people - I've never even seen him be totally serious with his dear old friend, Mr. Gibbs.

I really believe Jack was deeply hurt at some point in his past and he puts on all these cherades and carries on the way he does to hide that pain....I think he truly yearns to be loved - someone who can accept him as he is, long hair, bad breath and all - and that person is Elizabeth. She has an unshakeable confidence in Jack. He is never more vunerable than in that last scene of POTC2 - that's a side of Jack Sparrow we have never seen before - his only lines in this scene "It's only a ship, mate"......"We're not free yet, love" and then of course, "Pirate" to Elizabeth....I just love the kiss scene - after she's already had her kiss and manuevered him over to the mast and chained his hand - she could have easily just backed away and said "Jack, this is goodbye - the Kraken wants you not us...." but instead she stays right up in his face and almost gives him another kiss - she wants to really bad but if she does she may change her mind - plus you can tell despite the fact that she has just sentenced him to his certain death - he definetly would've kissed her back again. It's so great how he is just smiling at her in that whole seen. Wow.

Originally posted by lovethemtigers
But if you read the biography of Jack Sparrow - he is not really a drunk - that's an act he puts on to keep others around him off guard. (But he does love his rum, but it doesn't mean he's a chronic drunk) He never wants anyone to see his true self. However, Elizabeth has witnessed some of his more vunerable moments. He's usually a clown around most people - I've never even seen him be totally serious with his dear old friend, Mr. Gibbs.

I really believe Jack was deeply hurt at some point in his past and he puts on all these cherades and carries on the way he does to hide that pain....I think he truly yearns to be loved - someone who can accept him as he is, long hair, bad breath and all - and that person is Elizabeth. She has an unshakeable confidence in Jack. He is never more vunerable than in that last scene of POTC2 - that's a side of Jack Sparrow we have never seen before - his only lines in this scene "It's only a ship, mate"......"We're not free yet, love" and then of course, "Pirate" to Elizabeth....I just love the kiss scene - after she's already had her kiss and manuevered him over to the mast and chained his hand - she could have easily just backed away and said "Jack, this is goodbye - the Kraken wants you not us...." but instead she stays right up in his face and almost gives him another kiss - she wants to really bad but if she does she may change her mind - plus you can tell despite the fact that she has just sentenced him to his certain death - he definetly would've kissed her back again. It's so great how he is just smiling at her in that whole seen. Wow.

YEH! I agree 🙂

and you are right.. if she did kiss him again she would have probably changed her mind..so she quickly says "no" in her mind and pulls back again..then the "I'm not sorry" was her trying to persuade herself that she doesn't care for him..but she dooooeeesss 😄..LOL and Jack laughed because he could see right through the lies..that whole scene was about her trying to convince herself that she's not in love with him. "oh i'm doing it for the others!" "I'm not sorry" Jack's just silent..he knows exactly why she did it..

Yep yep I cant really think of much more to add lol.

I also agree with the fact that Jack has once been really hurt so he now tries to not let anyone in and thats probably why he also claims he only loves inanimate objects..

Its like all the stuff, rum, hat, ship, sea, sword, pistol..its like thats him saying LOOK im a pirate ..as if he feels he has to prove it to people..and if you take it away from him it seems as if he cant bare to let anyone see whats underneath..He feels as if it questions his status as pirate..

You know I'm beginning to wonder how much more we can analyze, fantasize and ponder.....Captain Jack Sparrow is such a complex character -I doubt Johnny even knows all of Jack's secret. But it sure is fun chatting about it, isn't it....it'll be really interesting to read all of this after POTC 3 is released and see if we had it right or not.....

Isn't Johnny on David Letterman tonight - July 27th??? I think I saw someone post that just the other day.

Yeh I agree with you. It will be funny if we all are wrong with our theories..we would never hear the end of it I'm sure 😂

Yes I think he is on. I dont live over there so I cant see 🙁

Eh do you guys think I should Animate my Pirates 3 script when I rewrite it? I posted a picture a bit further back that I drew with macromedia flash.

Oh yeh LOL that would be awsome!! and I forgot to say that the pic was really cool 😂 good job!

I was about to comment on it but then I got distracted with a post and i jumped into responding to it.

Thanks and Thats ok heh. It would probably take me ages though.

you know, i still think Jack is an alcoholic. I just dont think he is always drunk. But as shown in the map scene before he meets bootstrap, he does drink quite often. but i DO think it is less a part of his character than other things.

looks like you guys have been having quite a discussion! yay! 🙂 yeah i totally love that vulnerable side of Captn. Jack, which i honestly have only ever seen when he is around Lizzie. Coincidence? Maybe. But i think not.
Plus Jack takes great care to stay on good terms with her... as in the first one in that deleted scene "Is there a problem with us Ms. Swann?" he is frustrated that she is angry, when he hasnt done anything. He wants to be on good terms with her, whereas with Will he doesnt give a care whether Will hates him or not (though Will is too honorable to do that).

Sweetkat- Do that animation!!!! 🙂 that would be AMAZING. 🙂 if you have the time, of course...

I've been thinking about something that I will have to post later when i have more time....

THAT^^ is so true lol. Its like Liz..just means something different to him..I think he was pretty taken with her the first moment he saw her..after saving her life.

People keep saying to me that Jack only went and saved her to get away from the two guards but thats just complete BS because he dragged her right back to where they where.

Also he must have known it would draw more attention to himself.

He's such a good man at heart lol.

Was it you who picked up on that whole scene where everything he says seems to have happened in the next movie or is going to happen in movie 3 (Singapore) that was a really good observation.

In an interview johnny said that his character walks like that on land because he has developed sea legs 😂

Also..I don't think that swaying thing he does is a drunk thing..because in the curiosity scene he does that at first and then when Liz comes and stands next to him he lets his guard down and he actually looks pretty calm and composed compared to a few seconds earlier. Its when she starts talking about who she thinks he really is "a good man, I have faith in you" he looks so calm there..

Yeah I noticed through the second movie that he didnt 'sway' as much as he did in the first movie which sort of confused me I was wondering why they got rid of that. Maybe it's because they made his character more serious when he is around Liz, and stuff.

yeah its so true!! 🙂 I love when he gets calm. thats hott. 😉 plus the stakes were a lot higher in this one--- he had to work harder to get time for his shenagins.

yeah i totally think that scene explains the whole trilogy. hahaha.

im watching letterman, then i will finish my thoughts...

So i was just watching that scene when Liz first shows up to find Will at Tortuga, and she meets up with Capn Jack outside the pearl....

when he realizes its her, and says Elizabeth---- there is some DEPTH in the way he says that. people can go off on how i am over-exagerating or whatever, but seriously, if you really look at him and listen to him carefully, he is not just showing surprise.

He's totally showing this odd mixture of delight/surprise/fear/nervousness. Its sort of this growly question like, Wow funny you should show up I've been thinking about you a lot lately..... something like that. And then he instantly goes into his goofy self with the "no dress" bit to cover that up...

this is true/ I've kind of thought that too- that it was more like, ah Elizabeth...I've gotten rid of Will, maybe I can make my moves on her now....

He constantly is trying to get rid of Will -he sends him to the Flying Dutchman to retrieve the Key from Davy Jones, he knocks him over the head with the paddle, but this is funniest of all:

When they are fighting on the Will and Norrington knocks the sword out of Jack's hands,
Norrington says to Will, "Do excuse me while I kill the man who ruined my life.
Will - Be my guest
Jack - (as norrington raises his sword at him) Let's us examine that claim, former Commodore Norrington, shall we? Who was it that at the very moment you had a notorious pirate safely behind bars saw fit to free said Pirate and take your dearly beloved all to his self, eh? So, who's fault is it really that you've ended up a rum-pot deckhand what takes orders from Pirates (What a classic Jack Sparrow argument)
Norrington - Enough!......Unfortunately Mr. Turner, he's right.
Jack - STill rooting for you, mate."
Love how he puts the key necklace over his neck and starts walking off so non-chalantly then falls into that grave hole, then says, OH

It's so funny how Jack is always referencing to Will not being a "real man." In POTC in the blacksmith shop when he says, "You need to find yourself a girl, mate.....or, perhaps you have found said strumpet and are unable to persue her, you're not a eunich, or YOU?" and glances down at Will's front - so funny. Then on Cannibal Island when he is dressed as their King and Poor Will is hanging from the pole, Jack tells the natives, "Lam, lam picky, picky...lam, lam Insy, Winsy, Lam, Lam Say, Say Eunichy, Eunicy, snipy, snipy.....And then to Davy Jones, when speaking to him of Will : "Have you met Will Turner. He's noble, heroic, terrific soprano (LOL), worth at least 4, maybe 3 and a half....."

I agree with what both of you say 🙂

Its true about the tortuga scene..and the way he reacts as if "ah I've found you" links back to the hat theory where just seconds earlier he was in confusion about finding the right hat..then along it comes in the form of Liz..wearing the hat and all 😂

LOL that no dress thing..I love they way Liz looks when he says it..its like."annnyy way jack where's Will?" its funny how with every scene between the two she slowly starts to fall for Jack and her denial gets greater and greater..In that first flirt with her..you can see that she's not really disgusted with what he just said..she kinda smirks as if to say "ohh Jack" 🙄..."thats my good old Jack"..

I KNOW lovethemtigers!! he's soooo sooo jealous of Will in this movie!! Like when Tia starts flirting with Will Jack hurries and puts a stop to it😂 its like "no..no getting to know here!!..anyway I thought I knew you?" "stay away from my women Will you are NOT the alpha male!"

lol and he always tries to put a downer on Will and his sexual abilities like you said with the tribe scene..Embarassed him infront of all the natives!! 😂

I also just realised that I was wrong about where Jack was standing on the beach with the compass scene..It did point towards the water where Jack was standing but that was not the direction Will emerged the sea....

"that's my good old Jack"-- LovelyOne, i love that. So charming. Its funny how both Liz and Will seem sooooo happy to have Jack back in their lives, for better or worse, i bet they were pretty bored without him.

And it's interesting that Liz goes to Jack when she is lookin for Will... i mean, logically she should have stayed where she was in case Will was already on his way home, but instead she goes straight for Tortuga. And while she's there, she doesnt seem to be looking for Will at all. IMO. And the way she says "I know Will came to find you, where is he?" sounds a bit strange. it just doesnt seem like she IS too excited about finding him.

But as usual, i could be blowing things way out of proportion.