Oh yes! Because we don't know exactly how good he was with his sword, he automatically sucks! Wonderful logic from the KMC regulars here. Lets just assume the ancient sith suck at sword fighting because they were never at war with each other, it ISNT in their nature right? Oh wait.. And while we're at it lets diminish their force abilities too. "Omg he must really suck without his amulet". Please, more retardation. I expect more from you Sama.
Kyle's going to beat Sadow, lol. Ain't that a laugh. The downplaying of characters on this forum is hysterical.
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Oh yes! Because we don't know exactly how good he was with his sword, he automatically sucks! Wonderful logic from the KMC regulars here. Lets just assume the ancient sith suck at sword fighting because they were never at war with each other, it ISNT in their nature right? Oh wait.. And while we're at it lets diminish their force abilities too. "Omg he must really suck without his amulet". Please, more retardation. I expect more from you Sama.Kyle's going to beat Sadow, lol. Ain't that a laugh. The downplaying of characters on this forum is hysterical.
No, it's simply the truth. Logical deduction and on panel evidence indicate that Sadow required his toys to do anything special. Other than that, he's just an above average Ancient Sith Lord.
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Oh yes! Because we don't know exactly how good he was with his sword, he automatically sucks! Wonderful logic from the KMC regulars here.
Are you referring to me? Because regulars is plural. Anyways, I don't recall anyone saying he sucks. I do, however, remember that jim said he would get his ass (or 'arse'😉 kicked in a duel. There's nothing to support that Sadow would actually be able to beat Katarn in a duel (Mara he'd beat probably), and you can't deduct much from what we see of him fighting anyways.
Lets just assume the ancient sith suck at sword fighting because they were never at war with each other, it ISNT in their nature right?
Okay, we'll assume they suck - that is what you just said, right?
Seriously, no one even said they suck, they said he'd lose in a duel. And, it "isn't" in their nature to do what? War with each other? Your point? Does it mean all the Ancient Sith were involved...? I don't see what you're getting at.
Oh wait.. And while we're at it lets diminish their force abilities too. "Omg he must really suck without his amulet". Please, more retardation. I expect more from you Sama.
"More retardation"? How did I dimish his Force abilities?
I said he was on par with OT Luke from what we have actually seen him do without his ship (and that's the only equipment he used in the actual source material). We cannot assume he'll pwn Kyle or Mara with Force lightning, Force grip, etc. because we:
a) Have never seen him use it.
b) Don't know jack about their actual Force powers.
Expect more? Like what? Why would I defend a character that we can only speculate on for most of his actual power?
Kyle's going to beat Sadow, lol. Ain't that a laugh. The downplaying of characters on this forum is hysterical.
You come in her with a nice, little response that proved absolutely jack for your case. Ain't that a guffaw.
Oh wow, I didn't know this thread was "omgz Sadow without his amulet!" And you're only speculating Sadow would lose, unless of course you have definitive proof or even logical deduction that somehow the likes of Sadow and Kressh, who were 2nd in the apex of Sith power, are below the likes of Kyle? Come on..
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Oh wow, I didn't know this thread was "omgz Sadow without his amulet!"
Oh wow, I didn't know I said that! Oh wait...I didn't z0mg!
I'm saying that while Sadow probably has the Force advantage, we haven't seen him use any Sith magic in a fight, and I'm not saying that he doesn't know it because he obviously does, but we don't know the Sith spells that he actually has. We have not seen him demonstrate any power of even with his amulets, and the only real display of power we saw him doing without his ship (which he doesn't have here obviously) was throwing a brick at Ludo's head.
I'm sure he can do what Aleema can do, but I doubt that's enough to actually defeat Kyle and Mara. Plus, Kyle could always use Mara as a sacrificial lamb for one of Sadow's force attacks, and then engage him in combat anyways.
And you're only speculating Sadow would lose, unless of course you have definitive proof or even logical deduction that somehow the likes of Sadow and Kressh, who were 2nd in the apex of Sith power, are below the likes of Kyle? Come on..
Lmfao. A versus fight is basically entirely speculation. None of these fights' victors are cold, hard fact. Anyways, Kyle has done far more impressive things than Sadow. "Apex of Sith power"? Is that why they were wiped off of the face of the galaxy?
Please, you have no proof other than "l0l s4d0\_l_/ []Dwn5 4ll! sauphcxuxncsd89 ANC1ent 51th ph4llu5!!///!ONEOIDH!".
Apparently this is DN Kyle Katarn, so what makes me think he would win? Har. I should be asking you how Sadow can stop him in direct combat. We know Kyle has at least nine years of battle experience compared to Sadow's...uh, defeat in the same year of going into war? He was in the GCW, and the YZ War. Experience does matter (case in point: Obi-Wan vs. Anakin), though it's not the end all, be all; it still accounts for something.
And really, Kyle is simply a lightsaber prodigy and master (like Ulic and Kun were). He defeated Desann, where Luke didn't (well, there was a reason for that though), and numerous other Dark Jedi. I mean, seriously, he defeated seven Dark Jedi in combat, including Jerec (who was a fully trained Jedi as well), without much training at all actually. And keep in mind that Jerec was trained by Sidious himself, and Vader. Kyle was the Battlemaster as well of the era. He was able to defeat Boba when working as a mercenary, and numerous other Imperial troopers. And also challenged Mara herself without any training still. I'd say he has far more combat experience than Sadow.
We've seen Sadow battle Ludo Kressh, that's about it. We know Kyle has defeated fully trained opponents while having little training, and now he's a lightsaber master, a Battlemaster at that with a lot of experience. I'd say he can defeat Sadow.
Not to mention, he's also got Mara Jade to help out. While I don't think she's much of a match for Sadow, she's a nice icing on the cake.
I'd give it to Kyle and Mara from what we know about them, and from what little we know about Sadow's actual power. Of course, now I'll just have to wait for your "etc, etc, etc" reply.
"If they were so great why were they wiped out"?
THanks for your incredible logic lightsnake. Well then, if Palpatine was so powerful, why did he get curbstomped by a machine? See how ridiculous that sounds? Their personal power has nothing to do with the outcome of certain events. Lets see how Sadow was wiped out.. Oh yes, arrogance.. Palpatine, arrogance. Kun, arrogance. But of course if Sadow was all powerful he would have lived forever, like the highlander.. That is ridiculous logic and a poor attempt to discredit Sadow and the ancient sith, as lightsnake always tries to do.
And another thing, where was it said that Kyle was a saber prodigy?
Pretty much anywhere where the name Katarn is mentioned... You obviously know very little about him.
Anyway. It's safe to assume that Sadow was good, right? Now why in Hell is he ahead of the likes of Kyle, though? It begs for more proof than just: "'Cuz he's teh Ancient Sith!!1!!11!"
Look, if Sadow had uber force attacks, he would have used them. Maybe his amulet has no effect on force sensitives, maybe it takes some time to use, I don't know. The case and point is, that, if he could have used it, he would have. Now, if it's anything like when Kun used it, then, it would be more useful than throwing a single brick, right? And, Ludo couldn't block the brick, as we saw, so, why not use the amulet? There has to be a catch. Proof? Well, logic, but, if you want a little more, then:
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=243&page=17 Okay. See how it says the battle will go until one of them is dead? That means they're trying to kill each other. Do you understand what I'm getting at? I mean, they want each other dead... there's even an exclamation point in there.
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=243&page=16 Okay. See how Sadow threw one stinking brick? Yeah, that's lame. He even uses a hand with the amulet on it. So? Couldn't he just point his hand and blow Ludo away instead of throwing one crappy brick? Apparently not. Now, until you provide proof of him doing something like that, I don't see why he can.
Gee did you ever think that Ludo had a defense for it? THat two powerful ancient sith lords COULDNT just blow each other away? Things would have been a lot more simpler if they could. And please don't say "If he could have he would", because we very well see his powers from Exar Kun, who could blow anyone away at will considering there was no defense for it from the Jedi. So to answer your question, no, he couldn't blow anyone away because the ancient sith had defenses for stuff like this, otherwise he could have just blown away Ragnos.
Originally posted by jollyjim311
Okay, well, he couldn't block a single brick, so I doubt he would be able to get his defences up in time to block an amulet blast. There's a reason Sadow didn't use his amulet. You tell me what it is.
Uh same reason Yoda didn't block Sidious' lightning at first? Same reason Sidious didn't block Yoda's force push? Simple force attacks can be blocked, especially by the ancient sith. And why didn't he use his amulet? Probably because Kressh had a defense for it?
Originally posted by jollyjim311
It could also be argued that it has no effect on force sensitives. It could also be argued that it would take Sadow a long time to use it. It could also be argued that Sadow wasn't powerful enough to use it. It could also be argued that it would also kill Sadow to use it...
No it can't be argued that it has no effect on force sensitives, since the only "force based" part of the attack is the channeling through the amulet, after that it the beam isn't a force based attack. Not to mention it not working on force sensitives is speculation at best. Now, why would it take Kun no time at all and Sadow a long time to use his own invention? Hmm. Now, Sadow wasn't powerful to use his OWN CREATED AMULET? Come on jollyjim, you have to do better than that post.
Look, if Ludo had a defence for it, it wouldn't really matter. He didn't have the time to get his defences up (seeing as how he was hit in the head with a brick). Now, seeing as how Naga has never used his amulet in a fight, and the best force attack he has demonstrated is throwing a single brick, why is he so uber?
About all those "It could also be argued..." things, yeah, they're all speculation, but, so is your theory of Ludo being able to block it. Mine are just as good, only... Ludo wouldn't have time to block it anyway, so... that one flops now doesn't it?
Originally posted by Lightsnake
And skilled Jedi are able to dispel illusions easilym and disrupting Sadow's concentration ruins that. Moreover? Illusions aren't helping him at all
Skilled Jedi could dispelle illusions such as Aleema. Sadow's illusions were on an entirely different level and it took a blast to his ship to stop them. And JollyJim I've already said this before, the ancient sith had defenses for the techniques they created, so it's logical to assume Kressh had a defense for Sadow, which is why they didn't blast each other.
It has to say that? It has to say that they created defenses for their own techniques? Why? They created the techniques JollyJim, and if they didn't create defenses for it, you'd have certain sith running around blasting everything and killng everything. When the freemasons build buildings, first thing they do is create a secondary entrance for air and all that jazz.