Naga Sadow vs. Kyle Katarn & Mara Jade

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Wow, no need to respond to that one, moving on..

It wasn't even a response to anything you said, so yeah - move on.

Uh ok? That's great, what does that mean Sama? Could it be that it is a dark side power to channel your anger into an artifact? Hmmm.. No need to explain that one.

That made no sense, so explain.

Nobody said it was impossible but then again, you have no argument that even begins to state the possibility of the amulet blast being blocked or not.

And? You have no argument that it's impossible to block, so how does that work?

And again you seem to completely fail to comprehend the concept of the amulet blast. I'll try and simplify so even you can understand it.

Lmfao. I've argued about the amulet blasts far more than you have when I used to favor Exar Kun.

The blast itself is NOT a force based attack, it is a clear beam, so the only way to block that would be, as Nai stated, to take the dark side ability out of the amulet, which only Yoda has been known to do, so please don't try to argue" Well it's possible".

What kind of an attack is it then? Force attacks have been shown to be blocked, non Force attacks have been shown to be blocked (Tott Donetta blocked blaster fire from a ship), and apparently there was a defense for it as I didn't see Sadow blowing all the Ancient Sith to smithereens, did you?

Yea, it's possible that I can get into the NBA with my incredible 32 inch vertical and white ball handling skills..

Maybe if you practiced? You know what that is, right?

Lying? No, I thought there was a blue blast but I just looked in the comic. That's hardly lying, and I forget where I lied ever? But you're good at making shit up so...

Lmfao. Quit using my own phrase, and quit making shit up. Do I need to show you were you've made shit up? There's about five or six (probably more).

1.) You do act like tdtd ("I'll read that novel in a minute", saying "irrelevant misdirection" when it's not, etc. trying to act like you won the argument, but in fact, you've proven nothing).
2.) You are tdtd, so I fail to see how it's idiotic.
3.) Yes, as you can see, I'm accusing you of being a sock. You can call me "Lightsnake", but it doesn't really mean anything; actually it's a compliment, Lightsnake handed you your ass on the Exar Kun vs. Yoda thread.
4.) Show me where I've thrown a "temper tantrum", since you love to say I do it. I only personally attack you after the fact I give a response, which I fail to see how that somehow means I'm Lightsnake when even people like IKC, Sorgo (especially), and the like have done it.

Also, I'm glad you still skirt the main entries of my post, and go for the ones that really don't matter:

Originally posted by Advent
It created a lethal blast, I doubt it was the same blast though:

The one Kun used on Aleema was similiar in color to the one he used on the Wyrm, and was also shot like a projectile:

Didn't I already explain the seven Dark Jedi were powerful? They are not the "average" Dark Jedi, or Reborns. They are the Seven Dark Jedi. Jerec was trained by Lord Vader, Jocasta Nu, and Sidious himself. He was also capable of cutting people off from the Force ("Jerec has the uncanny power to absorb and overshadow one’s connection to The Force"😉, was a fully trained Jedi, he had a boost from the Valley of the Jedi when he fought Kyle, and Qu Rahn had said this:

"If Jerec captures this power, he will be a creature such as the universe has never seen. A supernova of stars in a fleeting thought. The eradication of life from a star system in a whisper will be within his power."

And Jerec did get a boost from the Valley of the Jedi when fighting Kyle, yet Kyle still defeated him even with no real training. And, Jerec was also viewed as one of the galaxy's biggest threats.

He also defeated six other fully trained Jedi. Boc, who used dual lightsabers, and used an unorthodox style. Pic and Gorc, who were described as: "Pic is the energy and Gorc, the counter. They are the clashing balance of opposites: one, the voice; the other, the body. This combination is deadly."

Sariss, who was also a master in lightsaber combat, "Out of all the Dark Jedi I have met, Sariss is the one I can say I fear. Powerful, strong in both the physical and mental arenas of the Force, she is a master, a perfectionist, quiet and reserved. This makes her a very dangerous foe."

Yun, who was young and somewhat inexperienced, but nonetheless powerful, "These elements make him a dangerous and unpredictable foe." Then you have Maw, who's only half a body anyways, lol, but is still described as a "strong and formidable foe".

So, it would seem that the seven Dark Jedi Kyle faced weren't average, and were all described as being powerful. We know Jerec is the most powerful out of all of them, and still Kyle beat him.

I meant for that to go in front of Sadow blowing up a star. As to say Kyle beat Jerec and the others with little training.

There's a difference. I'm talking about direct combat experience, i.e. fighting with a sword. And Odan Urr, apparently, only fought with the Force (stripping people of it, BM, etc.), and Vodo trained students for 600 some years. Yoda trained students as well, but probably had more sparring matches than Odan.

Anyways, the point was: I doubt Sadow has taken on as many opponents in a duel as Kyle has, while you're right, it doesn't account for everything, it does mean something. Kyle also has experience dealing with unorthodox fighting, and the like. Either way though, it does give him an edge, even if it's little.

So, because I misread it - we should talk about reading comprehension? Well, if that's the case, we need to get you immediate help.

Actually, you're wrong. Kyle used Force speed twice, if I remember correctly, once when Luke was testing him for something, and the other to escape a bounty hunting droid (or something like that) on Nar Shaddaa.

Good for me, I'm not referring to overall.

In other words, I wasn't talking about overall, so pull your head out of your ass. And that was only Ragnos' sceptor, so "their abilities"? No, more like "his ability".

Your point? I mean how the hell would we know their saber capabilities? Sadow doesn't even use a saber. And really, what are you trying to argue? From what Kyle has demonstrated, it's clear he'd probably kill Sadow in a swordfight, likewise it's probable Sadow > Kyle in the Force.

Oh god, reading comprehension? Hah. Anyways, I called you a fanboy. How the hell does my reading comprehension have an influence on that? You said "amulet and sword, all needed to be said", that is fanboyish, whether you say it here or anywhere else, especially considering what we know of Katarn.

Uh, what? He threw Jaden through an entire room, cut Jerec off from the Force (IIRC), and you still haven't shown me what magnitude the blasts are for definite.

Yes, as much as you'd love to think that: no.

Oh? Did I say that? No? Quit making shit up. I [b]never said that you said Sadow > Kyle in lightsaber abilities. I simply asked you to make an argument for how Sadow could stop Katarn in a lightsaber duel.

Also the fact you said "amulet and heavy sword, all that's needed to be said" kind of implies that Sadow > Kyle, but anyways that's not the point. The point was I only asked you to make a viable argument for how Sadow can stop Katarn.

Exactly, not is definite, so you cannot just say "z0mg katarn gets h0le in ch3st". That's the entire point.

Straw man. And I never said "everything", you dolt, I said the opposite actually:

God, tdtd, do you love looking like an idiot or something? Logical fallacy, and you didn't even get it correct!

Same as above basically. Straw man, plus I never said that he sucks in swordfighting. I said that Kyle - from what we know - is superior. How does that mean he sucks against everyone in swordfighting? Oh? It doesn't? As usual, quit making shit. You cannot say "it's inconclusive, so we must rely on a Force battle" as you seem to be doing with constant talk of Sadow > Kyle in the Force. [/B]

Originally posted by Advent

And? You have no argument that it's impossible to block, so how does that work?

No Sama, there is nothing to suggest that the amulet blast could be blocked, especially from Kyle. I'm sure you'd love to make a case for Kyle but there's just nothing even remotely close to him being able to block it.

What kind of an attack is it then? Force attacks have been shown to be blocked, non Force attacks have been shown to be blocked (Tott Donetta blocked blaster fire from a ship), and apparently there was a defense for it as I didn't see Sadow blowing all the Ancient Sith to smithereens, did you?

Ok? lol. "non force attacks have shown to be blocked so this must be able to be blocked too!" When you can show me how Kyle is going to block an amulet blast, I'll take you seriously.

Maybe if you practiced? You know what that is, right?

Lmfao. Quit using my own phrase, and quit making shit up. Do I need to show you were you've made shit up? There's about five or six (probably more).

Oh yes Sama, you invented "Quit making shit up"! And yes show me where I'm making shit up, and I'll show you when you do the exact same with your baseless assumptions/accusations/stupidity.

1.) You do act like tdtd ("I'll read that novel in a minute", saying "irrelevant misdirection" when it's not, etc. trying to act like you won the argument, but in fact, you've proven nothing).
2.) You are tdtd, so I fail to see how it's idiotic.
3.) Yes, as you can see, I'm accusing you of being a sock. You can call me "Lightsnake", but it doesn't really mean anything; actually it's a compliment, Lightsnake handed you your ass on the Exar Kun vs. Yoda thread.
4.) Show me where I've thrown a "temper tantrum", since you love to say I do it. I only personally attack you after the fact I give a response, which I fail to see how that somehow means I'm Lightsnake when even people like IKC, Sorgo (especially), and the like have done it.

1. Show me where I used the specific logical fallacy incorrectly, until then quit making shit up. When I win an argument I win an argument, just because you think or state that I have proven nothing, means absolutely nothing. But for amusement please show me where I did this.
2. I see only 1 idiot an that is the one who constantly refers to me as "tdtd".
3. Yes, Lightsnake handed my ass, please show me this. If I recall it was Nai that thoroughly hammered me, and rightfully so, and lightsnake had nothing to do with this. But again for the sake of amusement, show me where I got hammered.
4. I'm confused, if you use a personal attack BUT you do it after youve given a response, that's a justification for it NOT being a personal attack? Should I look up the definition of a personal attack for you Sama?

In the end, you claim I make shit up, constantly ***** about my so called fallacies, and beg me to make a viable argument while I:

1. Never claimed Sadow>Kyle in lightsaber combat
2. Only said that Sadow's abilities were inconclusive
3. Have given you some proof as to why the amulet could and would work from any distance
4. Waiting on your proof about Kyle's magical ability to block an amulet blast.

So tell me Sama, if you DONT make shit up, then why beg me to make a viable argument for something I don't disagree with you on? Interesting concept.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
No Sama, there is nothing to suggest that the amulet blast could be blocked, especially from Kyle. I'm sure you'd love to make a case for Kyle but there's just nothing even remotely close to him being able to block it.

WTF? What is there to say they are impossible to block? As far as I know, there's nothing, so how the hell can I make a case about something we don't know.

Ok? lol. "non force attacks have shown to be blocked so this must be able to be blocked too!" When you can show me how Kyle is going to block an amulet blast, I'll take you seriously.

When you show me you are capable of reasoning skills, admit your tdtd, get a clue, and stop committing a straw man - then I'll take you seriously. Just because you don't take me seriously (and I can hardly see what that matters), doesn't mean my argument is incorrect.

Anyways, I didn't say it could be blocked because non Force attacks have shown to do that. Here, I'll show you what I said in an increased font, just in case though, put on your spectacles - I don't want you to continuously make up bullshit:

Originally posted by Advent
What kind of an attack is it then? Force attacks have been shown to be blocked, non Force attacks have been shown to be blocked (Tott Donetta blocked blaster fire from a ship), and apparently there was a defense for it as I didn't see Sadow blowing all the Ancient Sith to smithereens, did you?

Instead of answering my initial question, you pick out one line and claim I say that because of said line, it can be blocked. Stop doing that kind of stuff. That is what I'm talking about when I say "quit making shit up", not necessarily making stuff up about Sadow's powers, but about my argument.

Oh yes Sama, you invented "Quit making shit up"! And yes show me where I'm making shit up, and I'll show you when you do the exact same with your baseless assumptions/accusations/stupidity.

Sure thing, no problem:

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Oh wow, I didn't know this thread was "omgz Sadow without his amulet!"

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
As opposed to "omgz he beat 7 DJ and desann, he must own sadow in EVERYTHING!

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
I never said he would, I'm saying your "we know nothing about him so he must suck at saber fighting" logic is fallible.

There's more, but the thing is, as I've already told you, you keep making shit up, and acting as if I said it, when - in fact on several occasions - I said the complete opposite. And accusations aren't making shit up when I have reasonable cause to believe you're tdtd.

1.) Just read the damn Exar Kun vs. Yoda thread, my god.
2.) I'm guessing you don't have a mirror. Figures, you don't have a lot of things. A clue would be one of them.
3.) See for yourself.
3.) Actually, you don't need to look it up, I don't substitute an attack for an argument, and if anything my insults are only something like "you dolt", I never said stuff like "you're tdtd, so I don't believe your arguments can be taken into consideration", I do make the point, then call you tdtd, though. Possibly ad hominem to a degree, but hardly acceptable as such.

1.) Never said you did, I asked you to dismiss that.
2,) So, why the hell are you arguing for him then?
3.) You didn't give me shit as to why they would work other than "it's not a Force attack, therefore it's unbreakable" or "it can only be drained by Yoda". Which the latter is bullshit, because apparently the Ancient Sith didn't pwn each other with the amulets, and there's no actual proof that's the only way to stop it.
4.) How can I prove or disprove something we don't know at all? Simple: we can't. You cannot prove for certain it's unbreakable, I cannot prove it can be blocked.

So tell me Sama, if you DONT make shit up, then why beg me to make a viable argument for something I don't disagree with you on? Interesting concept. [/B]

Uh, you still make shit up in an attempt to weaken my argument, you don't agree with me on everything clearly. So, WTH are you talking about?

Anyways, I do apologize for insulting you (even though I did it in this very same post), and the like, so can we continue this argument civilly, and not like pirates?

Still though,

Originally posted by Advent
It created a lethal blast, I doubt it was the same blast though:

The one Kun used on Aleema was similiar in color to the one he used on the Wyrm, and was also shot like a projectile:

Didn't I already explain the seven Dark Jedi were powerful? They are not the "average" Dark Jedi, or Reborns. They are the Seven Dark Jedi. Jerec was trained by Lord Vader, Jocasta Nu, and Sidious himself. He was also capable of cutting people off from the Force ("Jerec has the uncanny power to absorb and overshadow one’s connection to The Force"😉, was a fully trained Jedi, he had a boost from the Valley of the Jedi when he fought Kyle, and Qu Rahn had said this:

"If Jerec captures this power, he will be a creature such as the universe has never seen. A supernova of stars in a fleeting thought. The eradication of life from a star system in a whisper will be within his power."

And Jerec did get a boost from the Valley of the Jedi when fighting Kyle, yet Kyle still defeated him even with no real training. And, Jerec was also viewed as one of the galaxy's biggest threats.

He also defeated six other fully trained Jedi. Boc, who used dual lightsabers, and used an unorthodox style. Pic and Gorc, who were described as: "Pic is the energy and Gorc, the counter. They are the clashing balance of opposites: one, the voice; the other, the body. This combination is deadly."

Sariss, who was also a master in lightsaber combat, "Out of all the Dark Jedi I have met, Sariss is the one I can say I fear. Powerful, strong in both the physical and mental arenas of the Force, she is a master, a perfectionist, quiet and reserved. This makes her a very dangerous foe."

Yun, who was young and somewhat inexperienced, but nonetheless powerful, "These elements make him a dangerous and unpredictable foe." Then you have Maw, who's only half a body anyways, lol, but is still described as a "strong and formidable foe".

So, it would seem that the seven Dark Jedi Kyle faced weren't average, and were all described as being powerful. We know Jerec is the most powerful out of all of them, and still Kyle beat him.

I meant for that to go in front of Sadow blowing up a star. As to say Kyle beat Jerec and the others with little training.

There's a difference. I'm talking about direct combat experience, i.e. fighting with a sword. And Odan Urr, apparently, only fought with the Force (stripping people of it, BM, etc.), and Vodo trained students for 600 some years. Yoda trained students as well, but probably had more sparring matches than Odan.

Anyways, the point was: I doubt Sadow has taken on as many opponents in a duel as Kyle has, while you're right, it doesn't account for everything, it does mean something. Kyle also has experience dealing with unorthodox fighting, and the like. Either way though, it does give him an edge, even if it's little.

So, because I misread it - we should talk about reading comprehension? Well, if that's the case, we need to get you immediate help.

Actually, you're wrong. Kyle used Force speed twice, if I remember correctly, once when Luke was testing him for something, and the other to escape a bounty hunting droid (or something like that) on Nar Shaddaa.

Good for me, I'm not referring to overall.

In other words, I wasn't talking about overall, so pull your head out of your ass. And that was only Ragnos' sceptor, so "their abilities"? No, more like "his ability".

Your point? I mean how the hell would we know their saber capabilities? Sadow doesn't even use a saber. And really, what are you trying to argue? From what Kyle has demonstrated, it's clear he'd probably kill Sadow in a swordfight, likewise it's probable Sadow > Kyle in the Force.

Oh god, reading comprehension? Hah. Anyways, I called you a fanboy. How the hell does my reading comprehension have an influence on that? You said "amulet and sword, all needed to be said", that is fanboyish, whether you say it here or anywhere else, especially considering what we know of Katarn.

Uh, what? He threw Jaden through an entire room, cut Jerec off from the Force (IIRC), and you still haven't shown me what magnitude the blasts are for definite.

Yes, as much as you'd love to think that: no.

Oh? Did I say that? No? Quit making shit up. I [b]never said that you said Sadow > Kyle in lightsaber abilities. I simply asked you to make an argument for how Sadow could stop Katarn in a lightsaber duel.

Also the fact you said "amulet and heavy sword, all that's needed to be said" kind of implies that Sadow > Kyle, but anyways that's not the point. The point was I only asked you to make a viable argument for how Sadow can stop Katarn.

Exactly, not is definite, so you cannot just say "z0mg katarn gets h0le in ch3st". That's the entire point.

Straw man. And I never said "everything", you dolt, I said the opposite actually:

God, tdtd, do you love looking like an idiot or something? Logical fallacy, and you didn't even get it correct!

Same as above basically. Straw man, plus I never said that he sucks in swordfighting. I said that Kyle - from what we know - is superior. How does that mean he sucks against everyone in swordfighting? Oh? It doesn't? As usual, quit making shit. You cannot say "it's inconclusive, so we must rely on a Force battle" as you seem to be doing with constant talk of Sadow > Kyle in the Force. [/B]

Originally posted by Advent
WTF? What is there to say they are impossible to block? As far as I know, there's nothing, so how the hell can I make a case about something [b]we don't know.

No, you are supposed to make a case about KYLE blocking them through logical deduction(which you haven't and you can't)

When you show me you are capable of reasoning skills, admit your tdtd, get a clue, and stop committing a straw man - then I'll take you seriously. Just because you don't take me seriously (and I can hardly see what that matters), doesn't mean my argument is incorrect.

1. The word is you're.
2. Nobody said your argument in saber duels is incorrect, so in your own words, stop making shit up unless you want to look like a hypocrite who makes baseless accusations.

This is how it looks, tell me which one YOU think is ridiculous
Me: Prove Kyle can block the amulet blasts
You: Prove Kyle CANT block the amulet blasts
^decide for yourself.

There's more, but the thing is, as I've already told you, you keep making shit up, and acting as if I said it, when - in fact on several occasions - I said the complete opposite. And accusations aren't making shit up when I have reasonable cause to believe you're tdtd.

I'm glad your reasonable cause constitutes as a cold hard irrefutable fact..

2.) I'm guessing you don't have a mirror. Figures, you don't have a lot of things. A clue would be one of them.
3.) See for yourself.
3.) Actually, you don't need to look it up, I don't substitute an attack for an argument, and if anything my insults are only something like "you dolt", I never said stuff like "you're tdtd, so I don't believe your arguments can be taken into consideration", I do make the point, then call you tdtd, though. Possibly ad hominem to a degree, but hardly acceptable as such.

1. I have.. And maybe you should put on your spectacles because I don't see any kind of pwnage til Nai gets there, to which I will concede defeat.
2. Oh no, another joke. "Omgz like get a clue". That's adorable Sama, really. What's next Sama? A "burn" joke? A "pwnage" joke? Keep them coming, they're extremely relevant to the debate, no really. Not to mention they are both original and intelligent.
3. You can't possibly still be on this subject.

1.) Never said you did, I asked you to dismiss that.
2,) So, why the hell are you arguing for him then?
3.) You didn't give me shit as to why they would work other than "it's not a Force attack, therefore it's unbreakable" or "it can only be drained by Yoda". Which the latter is bullshit, because apparently the Ancient Sith didn't pwn each other with the amulets, and there's no actual proof that's the only way to stop it.
4.) How can I prove or disprove something we don't know at all? Simple: we can't. You cannot prove for certain it's unbreakable, I cannot prove it can be blocked.

2. I am NOT arguing that Sadow>Kun in a saber duel. Please quit telling me to put on my super spectacles when you are having trouble reading yourself. I simply said that Sadow's saber abilities are inconclusive and you can't simply say Kyle>Sadow because of that. You did provide some good reasoning which would have to do because we have nothing else to work with in Sadow's case.
3. How many times must I tell you. They created the technique so they must have created a defense for it. For all we know Sadow wears 2 amulets and so does Kun, 1 for the blast 1 for a defense. This is just an assumption. My point is NOT that there might be a defense for it, my point is there's no logical reason to believe KYLE has a defense for it, and I'm sure you agree.
4. Has it ever been stopped? No. That doesn't mean it's unbreakable but this forum loves the absence of proof theory. Now, is there any logical reason to believe Kyle can block it? None whatsoever.

Uh, you still make shit up in an attempt to weaken my argument, you don't agree with me on everything clearly. So, WTH are you talking about?

Do tell me what I'm making up.

Anyways, I do apologize for insulting you (even though I did it in this very same post), and the like, so can we continue this argument civilly, and not like pirates?

At the end of the day we're still cool.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
No, you are supposed to make a case about KYLE blocking them through logical deduction(which you haven't and you can't)

What the hell? There is nothing that even says they are unstoppable!

1.) Wow, thank you for the lesson, grammar policeman. You should've put the word, "you're", in quotes.
2.) What the hell am I making up? I'm talking about everything I've been saying, not just the saber duel. So, tell me, how that's "hypocritical" when you still are trying to weaken my argument by saying stuff I didn't exactly say.

This is how it looks, tell me which one YOU think is ridiculous
Me: Prove Kyle can block the amulet blasts
You: Prove Kyle CANT block the amulet blasts
^decide for yourself.

Darth Sexy: Prove the amulet blasts can be blocked.
Motoko: How can I prove something we don't know?

That's more or less how it is. How the hell can I prove something we don't know for sure? You do not know if they can be blocked, I do not know if they cannot be blocked, and there's no evidence to suggest either. Tell me how Force attacks can be blocked, non Force attacks can be blocked, but an attack (of which you've yet to classify as I asked you) cannot be blocked whatsoever by another Force user?

I'm glad your reasonable cause constitutes as a cold hard irrefutable fact..

Um, did I say it was? If I have a reasonable cause, it doesn't make it a baseless accusation.

1.) Whoops. Misread, disregard statement.
2.) And your point to this response was what?
3.) I can't possibly still be on this subject? We never even left it.

I am NOT arguing that Sadow>Kun in a saber duel. Please quit telling me to put on my super spectacles when you are having trouble reading yourself.

Put your super spectacles on, old chap. You need to realize what I'm talking about, you say that Sadow will win because he is the superior Force user, how is that any different from me saying Kyle is the superior duelist, ergo he'll win?

I simply said that Sadow's saber abilities are inconclusive and you can't simply say Kyle>Sadow because of that. You did provide some good reasoning which would have to do because we have nothing else to work with in Sadow's case.

Alright then.

How many times must I tell you. They created the technique so they must have created a defense for it. For all we know Sadow wears 2 amulets and so does Kun, 1 for the blast 1 for a defense. This is just an assumption. My point is NOT that there might be a defense for it, my point is there's no logical reason to believe KYLE has a defense for it, and I'm sure you agree.

What the hell? Why is it illogical to assume Kyle has a defense? Since when was he the uber weakling of the the saga? He never was, and never will be. Now, please, tell me exactly how a Force barrier won't be able to stop it. Tell me how Force attacks can be blocked, non Force attacks can be blocked, but an attack (of which you've yet to classify as I asked you) cannot be blocked whatsoever by another Force user?

Has it ever been stopped? No.

Has it ever been tested against a living, breathing Force user? No, so how the hell can you conclude it's unstoppable just because the only thing we've seen it terrorize is a Sith Wyrm, and Massassi.

That doesn't mean it's unbreakable but this forum loves the absence of proof theory.

So, because Aleema didn't block it, it's unbreakable...?

Now, is there any logical reason to believe Kyle can block it? None whatsoever.

We've seen Kyle demonstrate great defense, he did defeat Jaden while he had Ragnos' sceptor, he did defeat Jerec while he was powered by the Valley of the Jedi, and so on.

Do tell me what I'm making up.

I already did, but I guess your spectacles still need an adjusting, ol' chap:

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Oh wow, I didn't know this thread was "omgz Sadow without his amulet!"

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
As opposed to "omgz he beat 7 DJ and desann, he must own sadow in EVERYTHING!

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
I never said he would, I'm saying your "we know nothing about him so he must suck at saber fighting" logic is fallible.

Basically you make shit up about my arguments in an attempt to weaken them, not necessarily anything about Sadow himself as I already said.

At the end of the day we're still cool.

Of course.

Still waiting, Sexy:

Originally posted by Advent
It created a lethal blast, I doubt it was the same blast though:

The one Kun used on Aleema was similiar in color to the one he used on the Wyrm, and was also shot like a projectile:

Didn't I already explain the seven Dark Jedi were powerful? They are not the "average" Dark Jedi, or Reborns. They are the Seven Dark Jedi. Jerec was trained by Lord Vader, Jocasta Nu, and Sidious himself. He was also capable of cutting people off from the Force ("Jerec has the uncanny power to absorb and overshadow one’s connection to The Force"😉, was a fully trained Jedi, he had a boost from the Valley of the Jedi when he fought Kyle, and Qu Rahn had said this:

"If Jerec captures this power, he will be a creature such as the universe has never seen. A supernova of stars in a fleeting thought. The eradication of life from a star system in a whisper will be within his power."

And Jerec did get a boost from the Valley of the Jedi when fighting Kyle, yet Kyle still defeated him even with no real training. And, Jerec was also viewed as one of the galaxy's biggest threats.

He also defeated six other fully trained Jedi. Boc, who used dual lightsabers, and used an unorthodox style. Pic and Gorc, who were described as: "Pic is the energy and Gorc, the counter. They are the clashing balance of opposites: one, the voice; the other, the body. This combination is deadly."

Sariss, who was also a master in lightsaber combat, "Out of all the Dark Jedi I have met, Sariss is the one I can say I fear. Powerful, strong in both the physical and mental arenas of the Force, she is a master, a perfectionist, quiet and reserved. This makes her a very dangerous foe."

Yun, who was young and somewhat inexperienced, but nonetheless powerful, "These elements make him a dangerous and unpredictable foe." Then you have Maw, who's only half a body anyways, lol, but is still described as a "strong and formidable foe".

So, it would seem that the seven Dark Jedi Kyle faced weren't average, and were all described as being powerful. We know Jerec is the most powerful out of all of them, and still Kyle beat him.

I meant for that to go in front of Sadow blowing up a star. As to say Kyle beat Jerec and the others with little training.

There's a difference. I'm talking about direct combat experience, i.e. fighting with a sword. And Odan Urr, apparently, only fought with the Force (stripping people of it, BM, etc.), and Vodo trained students for 600 some years. Yoda trained students as well, but probably had more sparring matches than Odan.

Anyways, the point was: I doubt Sadow has taken on as many opponents in a duel as Kyle has, while you're right, it doesn't account for everything, it does mean something. Kyle also has experience dealing with unorthodox fighting, and the like. Either way though, it does give him an edge, even if it's little.

So, because I misread it - we should talk about reading comprehension? Well, if that's the case, we need to get you immediate help.

Actually, you're wrong. Kyle used Force speed twice, if I remember correctly, once when Luke was testing him for something, and the other to escape a bounty hunting droid (or something like that) on Nar Shaddaa.

Good for me, I'm not referring to overall.

In other words, I wasn't talking about overall, so pull your head out of your ass. And that was only Ragnos' sceptor, so "their abilities"? No, more like "his ability".

Your point? I mean how the hell would we know their saber capabilities? Sadow doesn't even use a saber. And really, what are you trying to argue? From what Kyle has demonstrated, it's clear he'd probably kill Sadow in a swordfight, likewise it's probable Sadow > Kyle in the Force.

Oh god, reading comprehension? Hah. Anyways, I called you a fanboy. How the hell does my reading comprehension have an influence on that? You said "amulet and sword, all needed to be said", that is fanboyish, whether you say it here or anywhere else, especially considering what we know of Katarn.

Uh, what? He threw Jaden through an entire room, cut Jerec off from the Force (IIRC), and you still haven't shown me what magnitude the blasts are for definite.

Yes, as much as you'd love to think that: no.

Oh? Did I say that? No? Quit making shit up. I [b]never said that you said Sadow > Kyle in lightsaber abilities. I simply asked you to make an argument for how Sadow could stop Katarn in a lightsaber duel.

Also the fact you said "amulet and heavy sword, all that's needed to be said" kind of implies that Sadow > Kyle, but anyways that's not the point. The point was I only asked you to make a viable argument for how Sadow can stop Katarn.

Exactly, not is definite, so you cannot just say "z0mg katarn gets h0le in ch3st". That's the entire point.

Straw man. And I never said "everything", you dolt, I said the opposite actually:

God, tdtd, do you love looking like an idiot or something? Logical fallacy, and you didn't even get it correct!

Same as above basically. Straw man, plus I never said that he sucks in swordfighting. I said that Kyle - from what we know - is superior. How does that mean he sucks against everyone in swordfighting? Oh? It doesn't? As usual, quit making shit. You cannot say "it's inconclusive, so we must rely on a Force battle" as you seem to be doing with constant talk of Sadow > Kyle in the Force. [/B]

Originally posted by Advent
What the hell? There is nothing that even says they are unstoppable!

[QUOTE=7057301]1.) Wow, thank you for the lesson, grammar policeman. You should've put the word, "you're", in quotes.

I aim to please.
2.) What the hell am I making up? I'm talking about everything I've been saying, not just the saber duel. So, tell me, how that's "hypocritical" when you still are trying to weaken my argument by saying stuff I didn't exactly say.

Darth Sexy: Prove the amulet blasts can be blocked.
Motoko: How can I prove something we don't know?

That's more or less how it is. How the hell can I prove something we don't know for sure? You do not know if they can be blocked, I do not know if they cannot be blocked, and there's no evidence to suggest either. Tell me how Force attacks can be blocked, non Force attacks can be blocked, but an attack (of which you've yet to classify as I [b]asked you) cannot be blocked whatsoever by another Force user?

No Sama, I'm asking you to prove Kyle even has the slightest possibility to block the amulet blasts. Nai had no problem proving that Yoda could possibly do the same thing, so I'm sure you could provide some kind of logical deduction here.
On another note, I highly doubt an attack of Kun's magnitude could be blocked at all. Attacks smaller could possibly be blocked by Yoda and Luke, but not that initial one.

1.) What? So, you will only admit defeat when Nai hands you your ass? Glad to know you admire him so much, but nevertheless, just because you won't admit defeat, doesn't mean you aren't already defeated.
2.) And your point to this response was what?
3.) I can't possibly still be on this subject? We never even left it.

Nai effectively handed my ass to me, you haven't. Because you keep arguing as to why Kyle>Sadow in saber combat, and you fail to realize that I do NOT disagree, so why are you bothering? I'm arguing for Sadow>Kyle in a force battle. So I fail to see how I am defeated.

Put your super spectacles on, old chap. You need to realize what I'm talking about, you say that Sadow will win because he is the superior Force user, how is that any different from me saying Kyle is the superior duelist, ergo he'll win?

Omg, where did I say Sadow WILL win because he's the superior force user! WHERE! I said that Sadow>Kyle in force abilities, and because saber duels have limits and the force doesn't, it is MORE LIKELY Sadow would win.

What the hell? Why is it illogical to assume Kyle has a defense? Since when was he the uber weakling of the the saga? He never was, and never will be. Now, please, tell me exactly how a Force barrier won't be able to stop it. Tell me how Force attacks can be blocked, non Force attacks can be blocked, but an attack (of which you've yet to classify as I asked you) cannot be blocked whatsoever by another Force user?

Where is the logical deduction for Kyle being able to possibly block the blast? We know DE Luke has blocked a very powerful AT-AT blast, and that wasn't even in his prime, so we could make a case for him. We know Yoda could disarm the darkside in certain artifacts so we can make a case for him. How in the HELL are you going to make a case for Kyle blocking an amulet blast? Lets say I force push you, you can block that right? Lets say I shoot a laser beam at you, or drop a nuke on you(weird example but works), are you going to be able to block that? Not to mention there is no evidence of Kyle being able to disarm it or even block it.

Has it ever been tested against a living, breathing Force user? No, so how the hell can you conclude it's unstoppable just because the only thing we've seen it terrorize is a Sith Wyrm, and Massassi.

Dear lord Sama, the attack itself is an energy beam. Just a Sith Wyrm? So you're saying any Jedi could take on a monsterous sith alchemic beast? It's quite unstoppable because it blasted anything in its path, and if it ISNT unstoppable(I don't see how it isnt, at least not Kun's initial blast), there's no reason to believe Kyle can do it.

So, because Aleema didn't block it, it's unbreakable...?

No, Aleema is a weak sorceress with nothing but sith illusions up her sleeve.

We've seen Kyle demonstrate great defense, he did defeat Jaden while he had Ragnos' sceptor, he did defeat Jerec while he was powered by the Valley of the Jedi, and so on.

That's a little different than a beam shooting at you isn't it? The defenses you are displaying are irrelevant in this matter. Not to mention the DS ending is useless, and it's not like Jaden becomes superhuman just by holding Ragnos' scepter.

Basically you make shit up about my arguments in an attempt to weaken them, not necessarily anything about Sadow himself as I already said.

I'm still waiting for you to show me what and where I'm making shit up.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
I aim to please.

Clearly not a good job done on that, but whatever.

2.) Holy sh*t! I can't believe you just said I was weakening your argument by saying stuff you didn't say. That's exactly what you've been doing to me, and I already showed you three times. Now, I'll show you again:

EDIT: Oh wait, you didn't even quote what I said at #2, lol. I knew it looked familiar.

No Sama, I'm asking you to prove Kyle even has the slightest possibility to block the amulet blasts. Nai had no problem proving that Yoda could possibly do the same thing, so I'm sure you could provide some kind of logical deduction here.

What? Nai said Yoda can drain absorb the energies out of the amulet, are you saying that's the only defense for it? Especially given we don't even know if it can, or cannot be blocked.

On another note, I highly doubt an attack of Kun's magnitude could be blocked at all. Attacks smaller could possibly be blocked by Yoda and Luke, but not that initial one.

Kun's magnitude. Keyword is "Kun's".

Nai effectively handed my ass to me, you haven't. Because you keep arguing as to why Kyle>Sadow in saber combat, and you fail to realize that I do NOT disagree, so why are you bothering? I'm arguing for Sadow>Kyle in a force battle. So I fail to see how I am defeated.

Again I say, how is you saying Sadow will win because he's superior in the Force any different from me saying Kyle will win because he's superior in dueling? The Force is limitless? Bullshit, you cannot sit there and use Force lightning all day long on someone.

Omg, where did I say Sadow WILL win because he's the superior force user! WHERE! I said that Sadow>Kyle in force abilities, and because saber duels have limits and the force doesn't, it is MORE LIKELY Sadow would win.

You agree Kyle > Sadow in saber abilities, right? And so far, you're only arguing Sadow will annihilate Kyle with the amulet blasts, or some other kind of shit:

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Kyle and Mara, in an ALL out fight? As in everything? Please..

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
that somehow the likes of Sadow and Kressh, who were 2nd in the apex of Sith power, are below the likes of Kyle? Come on..

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Kyle alone could defeat Sadow? LOL...Sadow would curbstomp these two like sorority sluts during initiation.

Yeah, "curbstomp these two like sorority sluts during initiation" is really equivalent to "most likely".

Where is the logical deduction for Kyle being able to possibly block the blast? We know DE Luke has blocked a very powerful AT-AT blast, and that wasn't even in his prime, so we could make a case for him.

Tott Donetta has blocked blaster fire from two ships firing at once, so can we also make a case for Tott "I'm a nobody" Donetta as well?

We know Yoda could disarm the darkside in certain artifacts so we can make a case for him. How in the HELL are you going to make a case for Kyle blocking an amulet blast? Lets say I force push you, you can block that right?

No, because you don't have the Force, and neither do I.

Lets say I shoot a laser beam at you, or drop a nuke on you(weird example but works), are you going to be able to block that?

How the hell can Tott Donetta block a laser beams, and all that jazz? And, WTF? Drop a nuke on me? First of all, if it was Star Wars, you can deflect a laser beam (I guess, WTF do you mean? Like a blaster shot?) with a lightsaber, and block ship fire from the Force, even as a relative weakling. Secondly, a nuclear bomb can just be redirected at whoever sent it (as seen when Boba fired a missle, and it was redirected).

Not to mention there is no evidence of Kyle being able to disarm it or even block it.

There is no evidence that it is unstoppable, so how can we treat it as such? As I said, you don't think the blast that hit Aleema could be stoppable?

Dear lord Sama, the attack itself is an energy beam.

And the Force lightning attack itself is just that, lightning.

Just a Sith Wyrm?

Yeah, a Sith Wyrm that doesn't use the Force, and probably doesn't even have a brain to realize what it is.

So you're saying any Jedi could take on a monsterous sith alchemic beast?

Kyp Durron did, he controlled the lightning of the sky, and killed a damn Leviathan. And no, I'm not saying that, but what does a Jedi taking down a Sith Wyrm have to do with the fact it's still a non Force using being that can't defend against Force attacks?

It's quite unstoppable because it blasted anything in its path, and if it ISNT unstoppable(I don't see how it isnt, at least not Kun's initial blast), there's no reason to believe Kyle can do it.

Yes, and notice how everything it blasted cannot defend against the attack. Aleema is the only one who could've, and she's a weakling anyways. Kyle was able to defeat Jaden even though he had Ragnos' scepter, he was able to stop Jerec - even though he got a boost from the Valley of the Jedi, and I believe stripped him of the Force.

No, Aleema is a weak sorceress with nothing but sith illusions up her sleeve.

I know!

That's a little different than a beam shooting at you isn't it? The defenses you are displaying are irrelevant in this matter. Not to mention the DS ending is useless, and it's not like Jaden becomes superhuman just by holding Ragnos' scepter.

Uh? Just because it's not canonical, doesn't mean if the situation arises he cannot do it.

I'm still waiting for you to show me what and where I'm making shit up.

Are you serious? I showed you tres times.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Oh wow, I didn't know this thread was "omgz Sadow without his amulet!"

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
As opposed to "omgz he beat 7 DJ and desann, he must own sadow in EVERYTHING!

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
I never said he would, I'm saying your "we know nothing about him so he must suck at saber fighting" logic is fallible.

Can you see that? You make up shit about my argument in an attempt to weaken it. Jesus, I posted that three times now.

Are we arguing Kun's Amulet Blasts again?

This thread is yet again POINTLESS, why we have nothing BUT speculation and an amazing shortage of evidence on Sadow's power.

I'll repeat, we have no evidence on the Ancient Sith, so any argument is inconclusive.

Sadow MAY have had shocking powers
Sadow MAY have been an absolute weakling.

Notice there is no definitive statement on him, and understand why this argument cannot be concluded without further evidence

Originally posted by Advent [/i]
Clearly not a good job done on that, but whatever.

[QUOTE=7057481]2.) Holy sh*t! I can't believe you just said I was weakening your argument by saying stuff you didn't say. That's exactly what you've been doing to me, and I already showed you three times. Now, I'll show you again:

You kept saying how I kept saying that Sadow>Kyle in saber combat, or rather implying. You kept saying that I said the ancient sith were the masters of the universe and therefore pwn all, etc.

What? Nai said Yoda can drain absorb the energies out of the amulet, are you saying that's the only defense for it? Especially given we don't even know if it can, or cannot be blocked.

No Sama, that's the only known defense and therefore Yoda is the only confirmed character that could POSSIBLY block the amulet. Luke would be another.

Kun's magnitude. Keyword is "Kun's".

And should I explain to you that everytime Sadow got angry, he was surrounded by dark side energy. Wanna show me any other characters other than the ancient sith that this happens to? It's safe to assume when Sadow got angry, he was a VERY angry mofo, and hence the dark side energies so tell me, why wouldn't his blasts be exceptionally powerful if he were to channel his anger through them?

Again I say, how is you saying Sadow will win because he's superior in the Force any different from me saying Kyle will win because he's superior in dueling? The Force is limitless? Bullshit, you cannot sit there and use Force lightning all day long on someone.

I don't know, it pretty much worked for Sidious. And the force is limitless Sama. There is only so much you can do with a saber, while you can do an infinite amount of things with the force. Not saying Sadow will, but proving the fact that the force is limitless.

How the hell can Tott Donetta block a laser beams, and all that jazz? And, WTF? Drop a nuke on me? First of all, if it was Star Wars, you can deflect a laser beam (I guess, WTF do you mean? Like a blaster shot?) with a lightsaber, and block ship fire from the Force, even as a relative weakling. Secondly, a nuclear bomb can just be redirected at whoever sent it (as seen when Boba fired a missle, and it was redirected).

Last time I checked, a blaster bolt isn't a superpowered energy beam Sama. You even see the thickness of the beam, what makes you think a lightsaber can even stop it? And my point is its very unlikely that anybody can stop an immensily powerful beam of energy. This isn't force lightning that you can simply absorb with your hands.

There is no evidence that it is unstoppable, so how can we treat it as such? As I said, you don't think the blast that hit Aleema could be stoppable?

There's no evidence to suggest it is stoppable either Sama, ESPECIALLY if it was like Kun's initial blast. Even a simple blast to Aleema couldn't be stopped by her.

Yeah, a Sith Wyrm that doesn't use the Force, and probably doesn't even have a brain to realize what it is.

Except for the last time, the beam isn't force based itself, and if it tore through a gigantic sith wyrm like it was nothing, there's nothing to suggest that it won't tear through a jedi, unless the Jedi has some kind of body armor that's impenetrable.

Kyp Durron did, he controlled the lightning of the sky, and killed a damn Leviathan. And no, I'm not saying that, but what does a Jedi taking down a Sith Wyrm have to do with the fact it's still a non Force using being that can't defend against Force attacks?

Kyp was the #2 man behind Luke in force abilities, and he did some widly insane things. There's still nothing to suggest Kyle can stop the blast

Yes, and notice how everything it blasted cannot defend against the attack. Aleema is the only one who could've, and she's a weakling anyways. Kyle was able to defeat Jaden even though he had Ragnos' scepter, he was able to stop Jerec - even though he got a boost from the Valley of the Jedi, and I believe stripped him of the Force.

Again I ask you, why is it relevant that Kyle was able to defeat Jaden in an IRRELEVANT DS ENDING? And again I ask you, what is the big deal about the scepter being in Jaden's hands? First of all, it did NOT make you superhuman just by holding it, and second of all, if I remember the DS ending correctly(I played it last week), Jaden took care of Kyle and escaped. And again what does him stopping Jerec have to do with his ability or rather, inability, to stop an oncoming energy blast?

'Kyp was the #2 man behind Luke in force abilities, and he did some widly insane things. There's still nothing to suggest Kyle can stop the blast'

Kyp did it when he was a padawan.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
You kept saying how I kept saying that Sadow>Kyle in saber combat, or rather implying. You kept saying that I said the ancient sith were the masters of the universe and therefore pwn all, etc.

Hey, I'll call bullshit if you don't mind. I did say the masters of the universe thing, however, I made perfectly clear I wasn't saying that you said Sadow > Kyle in lightsaber combat, I was merely asking you to put up a case for Sadow, because:

Originally posted by Advent
Again I say, how is you saying Sadow will win because he's superior in the Force any different from me saying Kyle will win because he's superior in dueling? The Force is limitless? Bullshit, you cannot sit there and use Force lightning all day long on someone.

No Sama, that's the only known defense and therefore Yoda is the only confirmed character that could POSSIBLY block the amulet. Luke would be another.

Sexy, you said this:

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Where is the logical deduction for Kyle being able to possibly block the blast? We know DE Luke has blocked a very powerful AT-AT blast, and that wasn't even in his prime, so we could make a case for him.

Now, I'm going to ask you again, since you didn't answer me the first time:

Can we make a case for Tott Donetta, too, then? He stopped fire from two starships outright. Can we make a case for Raynar? He turned ISD turbolasers away from his ship.

And should I explain to you that everytime Sadow got angry, he was surrounded by dark side energy.

Uh, no, the Darkside energy didn't just "emerge" from his body as you seem to be implying:

"I, Naga Sadow, call upon the power of the Sith...", yeah it doesn't just spark out of his ass like a Hulk power. Plus, he only does it once, I believe, so I don't know where this "everytime" comes from.

Wanna show me any other characters other than the ancient sith that this happens to?

Of course I do:

There you go, that's one Ancient Sith it also happens too.

It's safe to assume when Sadow got angry, he was a VERY angry mofo, and hence the dark side energies so tell me, why wouldn't his blasts be exceptionally powerful if he were to channel his anger through them?

Before I make a response: tell me, who do you think created all the amulets we see in GAOTS?

Really? Ulic got angry, and used the amulet:

Which only knocked Cay and Nomi down. And the Darkside energies were done by other Ancient Sith as seen above, and he didn't go Hulk-beserk and energies poured out of his ass as you seem to imply, he had to "call upon" them, like Kressh did.

I don't know, it pretty much worked for Sidious. And the force is limitless Sama. There is only so much you can do with a saber, while you can do an infinite amount of things with the force. Not saying Sadow will, but proving the fact that the force is limitless.

What the hell are you talking about? Sadow can only do so much with the Force (from what we know), he can do simple telekenesis, and really - that's about it, and maybe use a blast of an undetermined magnitude. And you realize Force energy can be depleted? It is not an unlimited source.

Last time I checked, a blaster bolt isn't a superpowered energy beam Sama. You even see the thickness of the beam, what makes you think a lightsaber can even stop it?

I didn't say that a lightsaber can stop the blasts, I said it could stop a laser beam, and even added that I had no friggin' clue what you meant by "laser beam". I mean really, a lightsaber is a f*cking laser beam.

And my point is its very unlikely that anybody can stop an immensily powerful beam of energy. This isn't force lightning that you can simply absorb with your hands.

But because Luke stopped a AT-AT fire, he has a chance? Again, I'll ask you:

Can we make a case for Tott Donetta, too, then? He stopped fire from two starships outright. Can we make a case for Raynar? He turned ISD turbolasers away from his ship.

There's no evidence to suggest it is stoppable either Sama, ESPECIALLY if it was like Kun's initial blast. Even a simple blast to Aleema couldn't be stopped by her.

And how did you expect Aleema to stop it? She is a comparitive weakling, you yourself said this:

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
No, Aleema is a weak sorceress with nothing but sith illusions up her sleeve.

When I asked "because Aleema didn't block it, it's unstoppable?".

Except for the last time, the beam isn't force based itself,

Okay, Sexy, what kind of attack is it then? You seem to claim it's "not a Force based attack", but you don't tell me what. it. is.

and if it tore through a gigantic sith wyrm like it was nothing, there's nothing to suggest that it won't tear through a jedi, unless the Jedi has some kind of body armor that's impenetrable.

Yes, and blaster fire from a ship has been shown to tear metal apart, but Tott Donetta blocked it. A friggin' ISD turbolaser on a starship has been shown to be blocked, and they are used in ship-to-ship combat and planetary attacks.

Kyp was the #2 man behind Luke in force abilities, and he did some widly insane things. There's still nothing to suggest Kyle can stop the blast

Thank you for skirting the actual point. And Kyp Durron did that when he was only a padawan, he was not #2 as a padawan - good thing you don't know the source material.

Anyways, what the hell does the blasts destroying a Sith Wyrm have to do with the fact a Wyrm cannot defend, it has no force powers? That was my original point which you turned into something else as usual.

Again I ask you, why is it relevant that Kyle was able to defeat Jaden in an IRRELEVANT DS ENDING? And again I ask you, what is the big deal about the scepter being in Jaden's hands? First of all, it did NOT make you superhuman just by holding it, and second of all, if I remember the DS ending correctly(I played it last week), Jaden took care of Kyle and escaped. And again what does him stopping Jerec have to do with his ability or rather, inability, to stop an oncoming energy blast?

If I remember correctly, he stripped Jerec of the Force, that's what it has to do with this match, not the one thing you're hellbent on proving. Plus the fact Jerec is described as this if he gets the power of the Valley of the Jedi, which he did when fighting Kyle:

"The Force of thousands of Jedi is trapped here. If Jerec captures this power, he will be a creature such as the universe has never seen. A supernova of stars in a fleeting thought. The eradication of life from a star system in a whisper will be within his power."

Originally posted by Advent
Hey, I'll call bullshit if you don't mind. I did say the masters of the universe thing, however, I made perfectly clear I wasn't saying that you said Sadow > Kyle in lightsaber combat, I was merely asking you to put up a case for Sadow, because:

Why would I make a case for Sadow when I don't think there's anything remotely close to a conclusive argument in terms of his saber capabilities?

Can we make a case for Tott Donetta, too, then? He stopped fire from two starships outright. Can we make a case for Raynar? He turned ISD turbolasers away from his ship.

Possibly? But I'd think not. What was the situation in Tott's case? Raynars? I haven't read enough of DN to know anything about Raynar. And at the same time, because he stopped blast X doesn't mean he can stop blast Y which is of totally different matter.

"I, Naga Sadow, call upon the power of the Sith...", yeah it doesn't just spark out of his ass like a Hulk power. Plus, he only does it once, I believe, so I don't know where this "everytime" comes from.

I can recall 3 instances at least, open up GAOTS and The Fall of the Sith Empire.

Really? Ulic got angry, and used the amulet:

Are you going to tell me Ulic's amulet did the same thing as Kun's, and not simply release some dark side energy? Hmm..Read DLOTS.

Which only knocked Cay and Nomi down. And the Darkside energies were done by other Ancient Sith as seen above, and he didn't go Hulk-beserk and energies poured out of his ass as you seem to imply, he had to "call upon" them, like Kressh did.

What do you mean he had to call upon them? All he said was "I call upon the power of the sith". That actually means he called upon the powers, recited something in the devil tongue and something magical happened? Or could it possibly mean that he was stating what he was doing?

What the hell are you talking about? Sadow can only do so much with the Force (from what we know), he can do simple telekenesis, and really - that's about it, and maybe use a blast of an undetermined magnitude. And you realize Force energy can be depleted? It is not an unlimited source.

ok??

But because Luke stopped a AT-AT fire, he has a chance? Again, I'll ask you:

And how did you expect Aleema to stop it? She is a comparitive weakling, you yourself said this:

When I asked "because Aleema didn't block it, it's unstoppable?".

I'm not simply saying you can make a case for Luke because he stopped blast X, I'm making a case for Luke because by NJO and even DN he is pretty much a force god so there's a good chance there's not much he can't do.

No, because Aleema didn't block it it isn't unstoppable. But for the millionth time there's nothing to suggest Kyle can.

Okay, Sexy, what kind of attack is it then? You seem to claim it's "not a Force based attack", but you don't tell me [b]what. it. is.

He channels his anger through the amulet, and as a result the energy beam is directed at the target. That energy beam is not a force attack itself so it's not like anybody could absorb it or redirect it.

Yes, and blaster fire from a ship has been shown to tear metal apart, but Tott Donetta blocked it. A friggin' ISD turbolaser on a starship has been shown to be blocked, and they are used in ship-to-ship combat and planetary attacks.

You fail to understand that the blaster fire from anything has its limits, the amulet doesn't. Notice how it increases exponentially with your anger, and how it increased at least 100,000 times with Kun's anger. Therefore it isn't bound by physics or what not.

If I remember correctly, he stripped Jerec of the Force, that's what it has to do with this match, not the one thing you're hellbent on proving. Plus the fact Jerec is described as this if he gets the power of the Valley of the Jedi, which he did when fighting Kyle:

Ah yes Sama, because he did irrelevant Feat X, that somehow means he has the ability to stop an amulet blast(without any evidence of course).

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Why would I make a case for Sadow when I don't think there's anything remotely close to a conclusive argument in terms of his saber capabilities?

I'm saying you keep parading around Sadow is superior to Kyle in the Force, so he'll win. Since you cannot make an argument against Sadow being inferior in a swordfight, it'd be the equivalent to me claiming Kyle wins alone because of his lightsaber abilities, and it is inconclusive if the amulet can be blocked or not.

Possibly? But I'd think not.

Oh? Because Tott Donetta is a weakling compared to Kyle, literally, Kyle would decimate Tott in a saber fight and a Force fight. Tott Donetta is not strong whatsoever on the grand scale, but he can block starfire by two ships. That is the equivalent to what Luke did.

What was the situation in Tott's case?

Um, he just blocked the shots with apparent ease? Look:

The situation: ships were raining down with an assault of blasts, Tott blocked them. Simple really.

Raynars? I haven't read enough of DN to know anything about Raynar.

Raynar was stopping full scale turbolasers. Entire attacks of them from an ISD. They were barraging his ship, and he turned them away by deflecting them around his ship. What do you mean his "case"? He used the Force, as Luke did.

And at the same time, because he stopped blast X doesn't mean he can stop blast Y which is of totally different matter.

So Luke can't either then? That's the entire point, you're saying we can make a case for Luke because he blocked AT-AT fire, you're exact words:

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
We know DE Luke has blocked a very powerful AT-AT blast,

We know Tott Donetta has done the equivalent basically, and to actually assume Kyle cannot block starfire like a comparative weakling could is ridiculous, and he actually does know the Force barrier technique apparently, as he demonstrated in the Dark Forces saga, "He gathered the Force around him, shaped it into a protective cocoon". Adding to the fact Kyle's Force power and abilities would trample over Tott's.

I can recall 3 instances at least, open up GAOTS and The Fall of the Sith Empire.

It is your job to show me the proof, I should never have to actually look it up for myself.

Are you going to tell me Ulic's amulet did the same thing as Kun's, and not simply release some dark side energy? Hmm..Read DLOTS.

I own and have read DLOTS. I'm not saying it's the same attack, but you do not know if even that is the extent of which Sadow can use it.

What do you mean he had to call upon them? All he said was "I call upon the power of the sith". That actually means he called upon the powers, recited something in the devil tongue and something magical happened? Or could it possibly mean that he was stating what he was doing?

You said this:

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
And should I explain to you that everytime Sadow got angry, he was surrounded by dark side energy. Wanna show me any other characters other than the ancient sith that this happens to? It's safe to assume when Sadow got angry, he was a VERY angry mofo, and hence the dark side energies [/B]

I showed you the image, and it's not "everytime he gets angry energies surround him", it's him actually calling upon them, which is the opposite of what you implied (and yes, you did imply that because Sadow gets mad, his fury unleashes the energy).

And the question you asked me is the same thing you asked after. Something "magical" did happen, he invoked the Sith powers which was exactly what he said he would do.

I'm not simply saying you can make a case for Luke because he stopped blast X, I'm making a case for Luke because by NJO and even DN he is pretty much a force god so there's a good chance there's not much he can't do.

Look, Tott Donetta is a comparative weakling to Kyle (and Luke even). In both the Force and lightsaber abilities Kyle has him by a vast margin, Kyle also knows the Force barrier technique. Tott Donetta was basically able to do the equivalent of what Luke did (blocking starfire), and Tott Donetta isn't anything close to a Force god. Kyle, however, is far superior to Tott Donetta - probably by the margin DN Luke topples his DE incarnation even (except scaled down) - so, it's ridiculous that you can make a case for Luke, but can't make one for Kyle, Raynar (who did it on a higher scale), or even Tott.

No, because Aleema didn't block it it isn't unstoppable. But for the millionth time there's nothing to suggest Kyle can.

Actually, your standards are ridiculous. I could just say Kyle removes the Dark side energy from the amulet, as he did that in the Dark Forces saga: "The Dark Jedi fought to break through and knew it was too late. The dark, nearly black column of energy that pushed up out of the mound had been severed."

He channels his anger through the amulet, and as a result the energy beam is directed at the target. That energy beam is not a force attack itself so it's not like anybody could absorb it or redirect it.

That doesn't explain at all what. it. is, it's an energy beam? Of what? An energy beam of anger? What the hell? Firstly, Exar Kun seems to think the amulet blast is Dark side energy (which Kyle had severed once before):

"The Dark side energy keeps increasing", and as we see, the amulet blasts get bigger (increasing), so it would seem the amulet blasts are Dark side energies. But wait, Kyle has also faced an opponent who could harness the power of the Force, and turned it into a beam, Jerec, when he was powered by the Valley of the Jedi:

"The Dark Jedi drew upon the energy that leaked out of the Valley, gave it shape, and a hurled the construct at Kyle's chest."

"had just managed to reestablish his footing when a second, more powerful explosion hurled him back into the cargo ship."

So, I'm inclined to believe Kyle knows what he's dealing with first of all, which is a help, and because of that would be able to either defend against it with a Force barrier (given what we know of Tott's feat with it), or just remove the Dark side energy, "The dark, nearly black column of energy that pushed up out of the mound had been severed."

You fail to understand that the blaster fire from anything has its limits, the amulet doesn't. Notice how it increases exponentially with your anger, and how it increased at least 100,000 times with Kun's anger. Therefore it isn't bound by physics or what not.

And was that your original point? No, your original point was that it destroyed a Sith Wyrm, and is therefore unblockable by a Jedi. You won't worm your way out of this one, especially when we have a record of everything you wrote. The amulet blast Kun used did rip through a Sith Wyrm, and such, but the starfire Tott blocked tears through metal, and I have no doubt it would be able to disintegrate a Sith Wyrm, especially given the Wyrm can't defend from aerial attacks. Raynar blocked friggin' ISD turbolasers which are used for ship-to-ship combat, i.e. tearing through a damn ship, and planetary bombardments.

Plus the fact it's doubtful the amulet blasts that Sadow could produce would be on a bigger magnitude of what Exar Kun did.

Ah yes Sama, because he did irrelevant Feat X, that somehow means he has the ability to stop an amulet blast(without any evidence of course).

Okay, he doesn't need to stop the amulet blast, he just cuts Sadow's connection to the Force off:

"The Jedi fell, struggled to stay aloft, and fell again. Something, or someone, had cut his access to the dark side of the Force..."

And really, to your realize the power Jerec held while Kyle did this? Jerec had this kind of power when he got a boost from the Valley of the Jedi: "eradication of life from a star system in a whisper will be within his power.", and given he also does this "Jerec turned, extended his hand, and triggered an explosion", which means he just casually stuck out of hand and an explosion happened, I'd be inclined to say he can do it to Sadow (cut him off). Either that or just sever the Dark side energy.