'Is there any proof Sadow can even make a blast on par with Kun's?'
It's extremely likely that Sadow's blasts would be at least as powerful as Kun's because he firstly created the amulets and would thus know them inside out and secondly, he had decades to learn and master them. Kun's learning of them was clearly rushed (which has its pros and cons) and there's no actual evidence that he was even stronger in the force than Sadow.
Kun:Froze entire Senate of millions of beings with minimal effort.Made Amulet blast so powerful,it destoryed/disintigrated one of Sadow's most deadliest and powerful Sithspawn,as well as dozens of Massassi Warriors.PWNed Vodo Siosk Baas,almost instantly.Was able to recover/learn a lot of Sith Alchemy in a very short amount of time.Destoryed the Spirit of Freedon Nadd with minimal effort.
Sadow:Chucked a brick at Ludo Kressh.
Yeah,I'd say Kun's a hell of a lot better than Sadow, given what we've seen.
And when the f**k are you going to answer my question in the 'Sion Force Storm' thread,Nebaris?
Originally posted by Sith'ari
'Is there any proof Sadow can even make a blast on par with Kun's?'It's extremely likely that Sadow's blasts would be at least as powerful as Kun's because he firstly created the amulets and would thus know them inside out and secondly, he had decades to learn and master them. Kun's learning of them was clearly rushed (which has its pros and cons) and there's no actual evidence that he was even stronger in the force than Sadow.
Just because he built them , doesn't mean he would be able to produce a blast of the same size, since they are only meant to do three things apparently:
1.) Blasts.
2.) Destroy spirits.
3.) Project messages.
How would Sadow having a greater knowledge of the weapon mean he can produce the blast of the same size? Especially when it's only meant to do three things. Plus, just because a blacksmith built a sword, doesn't mean the smith is actually a good swordsman.
I originally posted this:
Originally posted by Borbarad
Talking about Kun's situation: Sadow possibly needed years to figure out how to create his amulets. Kun figured out how to use them in the matter of seconds. So Sadow probably had a greater "theoretical" knowledge about the amulets but still he can't use them "better" as Kun because they just do what they do. That somebody has the know-how to build a rifle doesn't mean he's an excellent shooter.
And then changed it to my own version.
Originally posted by Advent
Just because he built them , doesn't mean he would be able to produce a blast of the same size, since they are only meant to do three things apparently:1.) Blasts.
2.) Destroy spirits.
3.) Project messages.How would Sadow having a greater knowledge of the weapon mean he can produce the blast of the same size? Especially when it's only meant to do three things. Plus, just because a blacksmith built a sword, doesn't mean the smith is actually a good swordsman.
Much of that is true, but the amulets clearly have multiple functions and are pretty complex (the way they act as a gauge for the user to channel their hate and anger and strength in the force and then amplify it), much more so than a simple blacksmith's sword, so it would be logical that the creator would know it a little bit better than someone who has learnt it in less than a year in such a rushed way as Kun did, no matter how great his affinity was.
Originally posted by Sith'ari
Much of that is true, but the amulets clearly have multiple functions and are pretty complex (the way they act as a gauge for the user to channel their hate and anger and strength in the force and then amplify it), much more so than a simple blacksmith's sword, so it would be logical that the creator would know it a little bit better than someone who has learnt it in less than a year in such a rushed way as Kun did, no matter how great his affinity was.
Yeah, though, it's not a definite. Nothing is really, it could be as big as the blast he used on Aleema, or it could be the size of the one that destroyed the Sith Wyrm. Thing is, Sadow needed years to perfect the amulets, and develop them, and such. Exar Kun already had all of Sadow' teachings, so he doesn't need to go through the works of actually figuring it out, since he already has what Sadow has laid down.
Is there any proof Sadow can even make a blast on par with Kun's?
I didn't think so.
You're right Sama, it's more logical to assume Kun, who had a year to study Sadow's knowledge, is more capable of using a powerful blast than Sadow, who created the amulet and had his whole life to study sith magic/sith alchemy/force channeling.. Yes.... Right..
And here you are arguing about the blasts. It's possible the blasts are as strong as what Kun used on Aleema, which only knocked her down.
It is quite possible, even likely that the blast Kun used on the sith wyrm was different than the one used on Aleema. If you recall, Ulic had another amulet that created the same kind of non lethal blast.
Worth nothing, since we don't even know what they are. Sure, he's powerful, no denying that, but as you seem so fond to say to me "this isn't a 'Force only' match", and Kyle also tossed Jaden through an entire room with the Force, if I recall correctly.
Yes and Kyle>Jaden, we already know this, what's your point. I know this isn't a force only match, I'm stating that Sadow has the superior force knowledge.
Incapable? You're asking me to do something virtually impossible. How the f*ck can I quantify their power?
My point exactly. Those dark jedi could have have been powerful, or not powerful at all. The fact that you're basing Kyle's superiority over Sadow on mainly this fact, is the reason I brought this up.
Uh, feat wars? It's called combat experience, and reason to believe Kyle > Sadow. Sadow causing solar manipulations on the Dena rii Nova is irrelevant, because he used his ship. And, on top of all that, Kyle did this with little to no real Jedi training.
Kyle did what with little real training, blow up a star? What are you talking about? And combat experience means only so much. I could for example, the likes of Odan Urr or Vodo had more combat experience than Yoda, yet Yoda was more powerful. So my point again was, combat experience means only so much in an all out fight.
Well, let's see: considering Jerec was trained by Sidious himself and Vader, was a fully trained Jedi, considered to be one of the galaxy's biggest threats, and had a boost from the Valley of the Jedi and Kyle managed to defeat him with no real Jedi training, I'd say yes. He's not "all of the sudden greater", I don't see where anyone has said Sadow > Kyle in any past debates. And you've yet to actually prove how Sadow would beat Kyle in a swordfight, given what we know - Kyle would win.I've yet to see anyone put Kyle above Sadow too. And I never argued that Sadow>Kyle in saber combat, I simply stated that you can't say Kyle>Sadow because of the lack of evidence on Sadow's saber fighting abilities.
[QUOTE=7055372][Lol. Because there was motion blurs, they have greater speed than Kyle? Yes, Jedi also use a thing called "Force speed".
No Sama if you read what I said you would quit making shit up. I said he showed great speed, PERIOD, not that it was greater than Kyle's. Talk about reading comprehension.
But wait, how could I forget? General Grievous killed Obi-Wa...oh no, he didn't despite Grievous slinging his lightsabers around like buzzsaws. WTF does them swinging a damn sword have to do with anything? Given that Jedi can use the Force to speed up their movements.
This probably goes into the earlier paragraph, but tell me something Sama. How many people have you seen use force speed in a lightsaber fight? I can only recall Luke and Sidious, who both were trained enough to use it without slicing themselves into little bitty pieces. Otherwise EVERYBODY would be using it no?
They haven't shown us anything to compete with the likes of Katarn, and you can't deduct shit from their fights.
In a saber fight? Perhaps not. If you're referring to overall, I guess them creating the massive force drain technique as one of their many abilities, means they couldn't compete with the likes of Kyle. In other words, you're full of ****. Like I said, it's a little different with saber combat because we DONT KNOW THEIR CAPABILITIES..
You see, the phrase only works when it's true. How am I making shit up? You did say "amulet and sword, all that's needed to be said". That is fanboyism, so quit making shit up about me making shit up.Lying will not save you.
Neither will your lack of reading comprehension. Notice how I said that pertaining to this thread, meaning Sadow could possibly use his amulet and Kyle would most likely not be able to stop it.
Against what? If you tell me the magnitude, I'll give you an answer. First of all, it's possible it could be the same size blast Kun used on Aleema, which only knocked her down. And second of all, I'll be you: "Lightsaber is all that needs to be said", how is Sadow going to beat Kyle? Jesus christ, you haven't given me a shred of proof for anything other than "bl4sts = d3ad ka4tarn". You forget Mara Jade is also here.
Yes, I haven't given you a shred of proof in terms of lightsaber combat, and you haven't given me a shred of proof in force abilities.
Actually, it is. My logic is simple: facts. You're logic is simple, too: assumptions. Do you know which one wins? Facts.Your logic is facts? Oh really Sama? Denial much? Kyle>Sadow=logical possibility. Sadow>Kyle in force abilities=logical possibility. I'm sorry to tell you that you don't have facts Sama, just assumptions, either logical or not. Unless you need me to look up the definition of fact for you. Kyle>Sadow=/cold hard irrefutable facts..Same goes with Sadow>Kyle. But please, if you wish to convince yourself that your logic=fact, go ahead.
[QUOTE=7055372]Those things imply that in an "all out battle" Sadow will definitely win. And seriously, Kyle > Sadow in saber combat. There's also Mara Jade, too for a sacrificial lamb. Unless, you're going to actually make a viable argument as to why Sadow is superior to Katarn in a swordfight, stop parading around saying "quantify, compare, O RLY, l0l, pwnage, heavy sword". Wow, heavy sword is all you need to say? All I have to say is "Kyle and a lightsaber pwns Sadow and a broadsword". Plus, the simple fact the amulet blasts could only be comparable to the one Kun used on Aleema.
Reading comprehension fails you again. I never said Sadow>Kyle in saber combat, quit making shit up again. And you can say those amulet blasts could be comparable to the ones used on Aleema, or they could be on the quantity of the sith wyrm. Yet it's all speculation. Not to mention it's possible that Kun's blast on aleema was different than Kun's blast on the sith wyrm.
Originally posted by Advent [/i]
Oh, I'm sorry. You imply it, despite you claiming they wouldn't own all, you still imply it [b]heavily. Sadow > Kun? Lawls.I fail to see how this is an implication of "Ancient sith pwn all" or "Ancient sith are the masters of the universe". "lawls"
[QUOTE=7055375]So far, Sexy, you haven't shown anything. Congratulations. You do though, like to say one word "amulet", so how is this going to help him in an ALL out battle, huh, where it's not just the Force?
As opposed to "omgz he beat 7 DJ and desann, he must own sadow in EVERYTHING!
How Sadow could ever dream to stop Katarn in a swordfight, and the magnitude of the blasts that Sadow can produce.
I never said he would, I'm saying your "we know nothing about him so he must suck at saber fighting" logic is fallible.
Or not even singe him (Aleema blast). I want you to prove the above, and specifically how Sadow could ever even dream of beating Kyle in a swordfight.
You're assuming again that Sadow sucks because we haven't seen him. And I never said Sadow was superior to anybody in saber combat. I'm saying it' I-N-C-O-N-C-L-U-S-I-V-E. You automatically turn that into "kyle pwns". Kun never defeated 7 DJ at once, so Kyle>Kun?
Hm, let's see. Say Sadow uses an amulet blast, Mara takes the sacrifice, Kyle engages Sadow in direct combat, and kills him. Kyle is - from what we know and can't deduct - Sadow's superior in a swordfight. Then again, there's still the matter of magnitude. If it's like the Aleema blast, or what Cay did to Nomi and Cay - how the hell will that stop Katarn? And yes, it is a possibility that's the most he can do.
And yet we know that Sadow's own creation is triggered upon one's anger, so it is VERY LOGICAL to assume the angrier Sadow is, the more powerful the blast. Now unless Sadow is as angry as a cute little puppy dog, it's more than likely that his blast is more powerful than the one used on Aleema, at the very LEAST.
'And again I was not arguing Sadow>Kyle in saber combat. We know nothing about Sadow's fighting abilities and we know a lot about Kyle's. So it's logical deduction+lack of evidence that points to this possibility.'
Well why did you state that me saying that Kyle would likely beat him in a saber duel was the dumbest thing you've ever heard then?
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
You're right Sama, it's more logical to assume Kun, who had a year to study Sadow's knowledge, is more capable of using a powerful blast than Sadow, who created the amulet and had his whole life to study sith magic/sith alchemy/force channeling.. Yes.... Right..
Originally posted by Advent
Just because he built them , doesn't mean he would be able to produce a blast of the same size, since they are only meant to do three things apparently:1.) Blasts.
2.) Destroy spirits.
3.) Project messages.How would Sadow having a greater knowledge of the weapon mean he can produce the blast of the same size? Especially when it's only meant to do three things. Plus, just because a blacksmith built a sword, doesn't mean the smith is actually a good swordsman.
It is quite possible, even likely that the blast Kun used on the sith wyrm was different than the one used on Aleema. If you recall, Ulic had another amulet that created the same kind of non lethal blast.
It created a lethal blast, I doubt it was the same blast though:
The one Kun used on Aleema was similiar in color to the one he used on the Wyrm, and was also shot like a projectile:
My point exactly. Those dark jedi could have have been powerful, or not powerful at all. The fact that you're basing Kyle's superiority over Sadow on mainly this fact, is the reason I brought this up.
Didn't I already explain the seven Dark Jedi were powerful? They are not the "average" Dark Jedi, or Reborns. They are the Seven Dark Jedi. Jerec was trained by Lord Vader, Jocasta Nu, and Sidious himself. He was also capable of cutting people off from the Force ("Jerec has the uncanny power to absorb and overshadow one’s connection to The Force"😉, was a fully trained Jedi, he had a boost from the Valley of the Jedi when he fought Kyle, and Qu Rahn had said this:
"If Jerec captures this power, he will be a creature such as the universe has never seen. A supernova of stars in a fleeting thought. The eradication of life from a star system in a whisper will be within his power."
And Jerec did get a boost from the Valley of the Jedi when fighting Kyle, yet Kyle still defeated him even with no real training. And, Jerec was also viewed as one of the galaxy's biggest threats.
He also defeated six other fully trained Jedi. Boc, who used dual lightsabers, and used an unorthodox style. Pic and Gorc, who were described as: "Pic is the energy and Gorc, the counter. They are the clashing balance of opposites: one, the voice; the other, the body. This combination is deadly."
Sariss, who was also a master in lightsaber combat, "Out of all the Dark Jedi I have met, Sariss is the one I can say I fear. Powerful, strong in both the physical and mental arenas of the Force, she is a master, a perfectionist, quiet and reserved. This makes her a very dangerous foe."
Yun, who was young and somewhat inexperienced, but nonetheless powerful, "These elements make him a dangerous and unpredictable foe." Then you have Maw, who's only half a body anyways, lol, but is still described as a "strong and formidable foe".
So, it would seem that the seven Dark Jedi Kyle faced weren't average, and were all described as being powerful. We know Jerec is the most powerful out of all of them, and still Kyle beat him.
Kyle did what with little real training, blow up a star? What are you talking about?
I meant for that to go in front of Sadow blowing up a star. As to say Kyle beat Jerec and the others with little training.
And combat experience means only so much. I could for example, the likes of Odan Urr or Vodo had more combat experience than Yoda, yet Yoda was more powerful. So my point again was, combat experience means only so much in an all out fight.
There's a difference. I'm talking about direct combat experience, i.e. fighting with a sword. And Odan Urr, apparently, only fought with the Force (stripping people of it, BM, etc.), and Vodo trained students for 600 some years. Yoda trained students as well, but probably had more sparring matches than Odan.
Anyways, the point was: I doubt Sadow has taken on as many opponents in a duel as Kyle has, while you're right, it doesn't account for everything, it does mean something. Kyle also has experience dealing with unorthodox fighting, and the like. Either way though, it does give him an edge, even if it's little.
No Sama if you read what I said you would quit making shit up. I said he showed great speed, PERIOD, not that it was greater than Kyle's. Talk about reading comprehension.
So, because I misread it - we should talk about reading comprehension? Well, if that's the case, we need to get you immediate help.
This probably goes into the earlier paragraph, but tell me something Sama. How many people have you seen use force speed in a lightsaber fight? I can only recall Luke and Sidious, who both were trained enough to use it without slicing themselves into little bitty pieces. Otherwise EVERYBODY would be using it no?
Actually, you're wrong. Kyle used Force speed twice, if I remember correctly, once when Luke was testing him for something, and the other to escape a bounty hunting droid (or something like that) on Nar Shaddaa.
In a saber fight? Perhaps not. If you're referring to overall,
Good for me, I'm not referring to overall.
I guess them creating the massive force drain technique as one of their many abilities, means they couldn't compete with the likes of Kyle. In other words, you're full of ****.
In other words, I wasn't talking about overall, so pull your head out of your ass. And that was only Ragnos' sceptor, so "their abilities"? No, more like "his ability".
Like I said, it's a little different with saber combat because we DONT KNOW THEIR CAPABILITIES..
Your point? I mean how the hell would we know their saber capabilities? Sadow doesn't even use a saber. And really, what are you trying to argue? From what Kyle has demonstrated, it's clear he'd probably kill Sadow in a swordfight, likewise it's probable Sadow > Kyle in the Force.
Neither will your lack of reading comprehension. Notice how I said that pertaining to this thread, meaning Sadow could possibly use his amulet and Kyle would most likely not be able to stop it.
Oh god, reading comprehension? Hah. Anyways, I called you a fanboy. How the hell does my reading comprehension have an influence on that? You said "amulet and sword, all needed to be said", that is fanboyish, whether you say it here or anywhere else, especially considering what we know of Katarn.
Yes, I haven't given you a shred of proof in terms of lightsaber combat, and you haven't given me a shred of proof in force abilities.
Uh, what? He threw Jaden through an entire room, cut Jerec off from the Force (IIRC), and you still haven't shown me what magnitude the blasts are for definite.
Reading comprehension fails you again.
Yes, as much as you'd love to think that: no.
I never said Sadow>Kyle in saber combat, quit making shit up again.
Oh? Did I say that? No? Quit making shit up. I never said that you said Sadow > Kyle in lightsaber abilities. I simply asked you to make an argument for how Sadow could stop Katarn in a lightsaber duel.
Also the fact you said "amulet and heavy sword, all that's needed to be said" kind of implies that Sadow > Kyle, but anyways that's not the point. The point was I only asked you to make a viable argument for how Sadow can stop Katarn.
And you can say those amulet blasts could be comparable to the ones used on Aleema, or they could be on the quantity of the sith wyrm. Yet it's all speculation. Not to mention it's possible that Kun's blast on aleema was different than Kun's blast on the sith wyrm.
Exactly, not is definite, so you cannot just say "z0mg katarn gets h0le in ch3st". That's the entire point.
As opposed to "omgz he beat 7 DJ and desann, he must own sadow in EVERYTHING!
Straw man. And I never said "everything", you dolt, I said the opposite actually:
Originally posted by Advent
I'm saying that while Sadow probably has the Force advantage,
God, tdtd, do you love looking like an idiot or something? Logical fallacy, and you didn't even get it correct!
I never said he would, I'm saying your "we know nothing about him so he must suck at saber fighting" logic is fallible.
Same as above basically. Straw man, plus I never said that he sucks in swordfighting. I said that Kyle - from what we know - is superior. How does that mean he sucks against everyone in swordfighting? Oh? It doesn't? As usual, quit making shit. You cannot say "it's inconclusive, so we must rely on a Force battle" as you seem to be doing with constant talk of Sadow > Kyle in the Force.
You're assuming again that Sadow sucks because we haven't seen him.
No, I'm assuming Kyle will beat him, and it's likely he would anyways. I guess it's...
And I never said Sadow was superior to anybody in saber combat. I'm saying it' I-N-C-O-N-C-L-U-S-I-V-E.
...I-N-C-O-N-C-L-U-S-I-V-E if Katarn can block the blasts or not then as well? Since we don't know if a Force barrier could block it, or if you can defend against it.
You automatically turn that into "kyle pwns". Kun never defeated 7 DJ at once, so Kyle>Kun?
Kun actually has demonstrated his lightsaber ability, so a big "No" to that one. Try again. Insert 25 cents.
And yet we know that Sadow's own creation is triggered upon one's anger, so it is VERY LOGICAL to assume the angrier Sadow is, the more powerful the blast.
Uh, no? Because you don't even know what magnitude the blast will be in the first place, and by the time Sadow gets up to that size of a blast (if he even can) Kyle would've engaged him in saber combat. And you're still forgetting Mara can be used as a sacrificial lamb, and that the opponents are not a football field apart as you seem to think.
Originally posted by Advent [/i]
[B]No, I'm assuming Kyle will beat him, and it's likely he would anyways. I guess it's...[QUOTE=7056404]...I-N-C-O-N-C-L-U-S-I-V-E if Katarn can block the blasts or not then as well? Since we don't know if a Force barrier could block it, or if you can defend against it.
Considering there is nothing to suggest that Kyle can block it, and the attack itself isn't force based, it's more logical to assume that he CANT block it.
[QUOTE=7056404]Kun actually has demonstrated his lightsaber ability, so a big "No" to that one. Try again. Insert 25 cents.
Oooo clever Sama, that wasn't corny at all.
Uh, no? Because you don't even know what magnitude the blast will be in the first place, and by the time Sadow gets up to that size of a blast (if he even can) Kyle would've engaged him in saber combat. And you're still forgetting Mara can be used as a sacrificial lamb, and that the opponents are not a football field apart as you seem to think.
You're right I don't know the magnitude of the blast, however I know the magnitude of the blast is dependant on anger and again, unless Sadow is like a cute little puppy, you can expect to be the blast as big as Aleema's at the very least. May I remind you how Sadow was surrounded by dark side energy when he got angry, or perhaps you should open up GAOTS again. And what in the WORLD makes you think there needs to be some kind of great distance for the amulet blast to be shot off? Notice how Kun was a foot or 2 next to Aleema before shooting her with a blast, so no Sama, contrary to your ridiculous assumption, I do not in fact think they are a football field apart. And for the record, the blast on the sith wyrm was blue, and the blast on Aleema was red, so if you want to blame the artist go ahead, but at the end it looks like a completely different blast, which begs the question as to how many different blasts, or other things can Sadow's amulet do?
And again, if you want to look like a fool by referring to me as "tdtd", you may do so. And if it really truly makes you feel better thinking that I'm somehow making a fool out of myself, when at the end we come to an agreement, then whatever helps you sleep well. I can just as well look like an idiot and keep referring to you as 'lightsnake', but I'm afraid you seem to have the 'spotlight' in that category.
As I can see, quoting, too, has now failed you.
Considering there is nothing to suggest that Kyle can block it, and the attack itself isn't force based, it's more logical to assume that he CANT block it.
Why? There's nothing that says it's impossible to defend against for one, and for two, we don't know if a Force barrier could withstand it or not.
And the blasts are described as "Dark side energies" btw.
Oooo clever Sama, that wasn't corny at all.
Oh, nice way to avoid the fact your comparison was wrong even if the joke after it was "corny" (disgusting word anyways).
And for the record, the blast on the sith wyrm was blue, and the blast on Aleema was red, so if you want to blame the artist go ahead,
Actually, I'll blame you...for lying yet again:
You were saying? The one used on the Wyrm was a lighter shade of red (pink basically), not blue. Yes - huge difference there.
I can just as well look like an idiot and keep referring to you as 'lightsnake', but I'm afraid you seem to have the 'spotlight' in that category.
You actually can't call me "Lightsnake", because of a few minor things:
1.) You actually act like tdtd.
2.) You actually are tdtd.
3.) Lightsnake isn't banned.
4.) I debate entirely different from Lightsnake.
Originally posted by Advent [/i]
[B]As I can see, quoting, too, has now failed you.
Wow, no need to respond to that one, moving on..
Why? There's nothing that says it's impossible to defend against for one, and for two, we don't know if a Force barrier could withstand it or not.Nobody said it was impossible but then again, you have no argument that even begins to state the possibility of the amulet blast being blocked or not. And again you seem to completely fail to comprehend the concept of the amulet blast. I'll try and simplify so even you can understand it. The blast itself is NOT a force based attack, it is a clear beam, so the only way to block that would be, as Nai stated, to take the dark side ability out of the amulet, which only Yoda has been known to do, so please don't try to argue" Well it's possible". Yea, it's possible that I can get into the NBA with my incredible 32 inch vertical and white ball handling skills..
[QUOTE=7056749]And the blasts are described as "Dark side energies" btw.
Uh ok? That's great, what does that mean Sama? Could it be that it is a dark side power to channel your anger into an artifact? Hmmm.. No need to explain that one.
Actually, I'll blame you...for lying yet again:You were saying? The one used on the Wyrm was a lighter shade of red (pink basically), not blue. Yes - huge difference there.
Lying? No, I thought there was a blue blast but I just looked in the comic. That's hardly lying, and I forget where I lied ever? But you're good at making shit up so...
You actually can't call me "Lightsnake", because of a few minor things:1.) You actually act like tdtd.
2.) You actually are tdtd.
3.) Lightsnake isn't banned.
4.) I debate entirely different from Lightsnake.
1. Idiotic assumption
2. Even more idiotic
3. Ok...
4. Aside from your constant temper tantrums, insignificant personal attacks and poor attempt at humor? Hmm..
