Originally posted by Juntai
Thanos is on team 1?
Completely over his head. You havent dismantled any logic, you just think you have. Furthermore Runner doesnt just have speed. He can maniuplate minds to an extent and can project energy. The fact that Thanos had to use the time gem shows you the extent of Runners powers.
Are you actually going to show any scans or what?
Originally posted by AlfheimWhat are you talking about!? I'm the only one here that's proven anything, or posted scans of anything. All you've done is troll, and I'm not alone is noticing it.
Completely over his head. You havent dismantled any logic, you just think you have. Furthermore Runner doesnt just have speed. He can maniuplate minds to an extent and can project energy. The fact that Thanos had to use the time gem shows you the extent of Runners powers.Are you actually going to show any scans or what?
It's quite obvious you're just posting because of being a fanboy of the character, easily noticable when you go to the 'comic books' forum, and see the threads of you complaining about the characters bad portrayals, and then later on, posting up adresses and of writers and editors, going to send them hate-mail about it. lol.
You haven't come up with a shred of evidence, and you've been shut down from every angle.
Now come up with real evidence on him being stronger than Superman. instead of just trolling.
Superman has higher feats, and has defeated mighty characters too, which Runner has not, since he lost to Thanos, and defeated a weakened and confused Surfer.
Originally posted by Juntai
It's quite obvious you're just posting because of being a fanboy of the character, easily noticable when you go to the 'comic books' forum, and see the threads of you complaining about the characters bad portrayals, and then later on, posting up adresses and of writers and editors, going to send them hate-mail about it. lol.
In one of those threads you deleiberately misquoted me. 😬 I actually showed it to one of the mod and they agreed. One thing I dont do is quote somebody and delete the relevant sections of their post, thats disgraceful.
What strikes me is that almost everybody thinks that Runner and SS win but you keep telling me how im a fanboy. To be quite honest I think you have some point about speed but really thats all there is, I would not be suprised for all Supermans speed feats he still has different showings in combat where he gets hurt by much slower characters You still have the concept that if it happens in a comicbook that its ok, without further analysis of what happened.
If Rick Jones one-shotted Thanos according to your logic that would be ok. 👆
Furthermore even if we are going to go by speed in combat Superman is nt consistent is he? Whats this?
http://img215.imageshack.us/my.php?image=zoomsl5.jpg
Who saves Superman? Hal Jordan not Superman.
http://img215.imageshack.us/my.php?image=zoom2cg0.jpg
Runner is shown to be consistenly fast. Furthermore Runner has the capability of running so fast he goes beyond time and space so that only skyfather beings like GM can see him, not sure if Superman has done that but he is certainly not consistent.
Thats why on this forum Cap is better at H2H than Wolverine because eventhough Wolverine has good H2H feats Cap is consistently better.
Didnt Superman beat Dominus using T-vo? Does Superman have T-vo on this forum? So if he cant have T-vo on this forum why are we using it as an example.
Originally posted by AlfheimI never made the claim that it's OK if Rick Jones one shots Thanos. Or that if it happens in a comic, it's OK if it's completely out of the question, but that's not a scenario we've come to in this thread. You're beginning to tread in the territory of insulting my intelligence again.
In one of those threads you deleiberately misquoted me. 😬 I actually showed it to one of the mod and they agreed. One thing I dont do is quote somebody and delete the relevant sections of their post, thats disgraceful.What strikes me is that almost everybody thinks that Runner and SS win but you keep telling me how im a fanboy. To be quite honest I think you have some point about speed but really thats all there is, I would not be suprised for all Supermans speed feats he still has different showings in combat where he gets hurt by much slower characters You still have the concept that if it happens in a comicbook that its ok, without further analysis of what happened.
If Rick Jones one-shotted Thanos according to your logic that would be ok. 👆
What I did say though, is that Runner never defeated Thanos, and can't claim a victory that never happened. And defeating a weakened and confused Surfer isn't that great either.
Using ABC logic isn't the best way to determine a winner in a fight. I said this about your arguement from the beginning. Superman has defeated very high end foes as well. Some of them in the skyfather and up level of power. Do I think Superman is that strong and could wallop Odin on any given day? No.
Your entire arguement is baseless, doesn't include any evidence supporting your character that definitively puts him in any league over Superman.
What you don't understand, is that I never once claimed Superman's team would win the fight, I just said there is no proof of Runner being able to beat Superman, since his feats and battles trump him entirely across the board. What people get from that is their own accord.
Yes, Superman does sometimes get hit by slower characters but he admittedly does so on purpose sometimes, knowing he can take the hit. He admits as much in such as JLA: Classified New Maps of Hell for example.
It doesn't mean that he doesn't possess to the speed to use when he knows it's neccisary, and often in the comic books, he's not bloodlusted and going for a defeat by any means possible, using all abilities to his advantage as they are on the forums.
Runner speed is his biggest asset, and he doesn't have any speed feats that put him definitively out of Superman's range of ability, meaning Superman can match him in that department. But can Runner match everything else Superman brings to the table? His physical overbearing power? His long range attacks? His battle-tactics and intelligence?
What advantages does Runner hold here? Imo, none. He hasn't a battle-showing, or a feat that puts any of his powers definitively over Superman.
As for the other part, I misquoted you on purpose, to show you exactly what part of your post I was refering to. You were just trolling me that day as well, after I pointed out most of the reason you claimed the Elders were cool, was based on their powers or who they defeated in combat, I highlighted it, others agreed with me that it's what they got out of your post as well. Bringing it up here, where it has no relivence, just shows you going off on tangents and trolling again.
Originally posted by AlfheimNot that Torquasm Vo is needed for what I've presented here- which is a complete dismantling of everything you've posted in the thread so far-
Superman have T-vo on this forum? So if he cant have T-vo on this forum why are we using it as an example.
Who says he can't use Torqasm Vo? It's certainly in his abilities to use it, and has even shown properties of even as recent as after Infinite Crisis. In the OMAC mini, he was creating mental duplicates of himself, and speaking with people telepathically.
We don't remove characters powers on the forum, unless of course, it says so in the original post.
Though it is funny how you're desperately trying to play off Superman and his vast amount of feats and battle-victories over Runner's meager showings. Meanwhile trying to forcefeed us bullshit about how he's defeated Thanos and is therefore is greater than Superman, when it never happened on panel.
Originally posted by Juntai
You need to get on the offensive side of the ball and actually prove something. Rather than just trying to take shots at me personally. It doesn't look good, and doesn't help your case at all.Superman has defeated more powerful foes. I named a few for you. And even others that were really just beasts, to show some hard-fought battles against powerful foes.
Superman's feats outdo Runners. I'll be glad to compare scans of feats if you'd like. But you know this is a losing battle.I gave you scans of a story you claim to own, and didn't even know the plot or the characters involved in it.
You keep claiming Runner can beat Thanos, when it never happened. Thanos won with the time gem, but that's better than not winning at all. You can't claim a victory that never happened. All Runner did was momentarily have the upper hand, there's no way of telling what would have happened, that's speculation and extrapolation of the event. Not applicable here.
The scans I posted mention Surfer having been in previous battles and weakened. Just as I said.
He never overpowered Surfer in his right mind, or without being battle-weary. Nothing terribly impressive..After that, I had the scans of Surfer and Nova giving the Elders the what-for, in the very same story as the Surfer/Runner fight, even showing the conversation that linked the events, from Runner even mentioning the fight as he arrived, Grandmaster mentioning getting Surfer out of the was just to get a shot at killing Galactus. And then Nova and Surfer handling business. Even told you what happened in the next issue.
But this isn't about what [b]I've
brought to debate, because I'm the only one that's proved everything, more-so it's about what you brought - Insults, ignorance, and not an iota of evidence to back your stance. [/B]
Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
As Juntai pointed out, Superman has him in feets aswell as showings against powerfull oponnents.The grasping at straws here by those who want Runner to win against Superman is ridiculous .
I'm not sure whether or not they didn't understand what Juntai was saying, or they just realized that they can't counter the arguments so they tried to attack him by saying that his logic is wrong.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Furthermore Runner has the capability of running so fast he goes beyond time and space so that only skyfather beings like GM can see him, not sure if Superman has done that but he is certainly not consistent.
This is an important part of my post which you ignored im assuming that the answer is no. I'll make it a little clearer. Has Superman shown to have the capability of moving so fast herald level characters dont even know hes there and only beings such as GM who have mastery over time and space are aware that he is present?
Originally posted by Alfheim😆 I can't believe you're still trolling this thread.
This is an important part of my post which you ignored im assuming that the answer is no. I'll make it a little clearer. Has Superman shown to have the capability of moving so fast herald level characters dont even know hes there and only beings such as GM who have mastery over time and space are aware that he is present?
First off, show me the scans, and I'll go from there. But certainly Superman has proven to be faster than other characters in his class, and has indeed shown the ability to use his speed to be invisible and intangible. He's even been shown too fast for telepathic characters to track, he's devistated entire teams without them being able to see him or track him. He's proven to fast enough, that when he wants to end a battle, even lightspeed and beyond characters can't do much to react to him properly.
Oh, and I'll also want you to prove that bit about Grandmaster being skyfather level, like Odin and such, and that he has complete mastery over time and space. Because I showed you a couple of heralds beating up the group of Elders and rounding them into a black hole. But I expect you to come up with another trollish post, and just cry PIS instead, as you've done since page 6, while not making any truly valid points or proving shit.
Originally posted by Juntai
😆 I can't believe you're still trolling this thread.First off, show me the scans, and I'll go from there.
But certainly Superman has proven to be faster than other characters in his class, and has indeed shown the ability to use his speed to be invisible and intangible. He's even been shown too fast for telepathic characters to track, he's devistated entire teams without them being able to see him or track him. He's proven to fast enough, that when he wants to end a battle, even lightspeed and beyond characters can't do much to react to him properly.
Where these people motionless like statues?
http://img121.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=24391_Quasar_58_018_122_692lo.jpg
http://img159.imagevenue.com/view.php?image=24397_Quasar_58_019_122_1082lo.jpg
Lol im not talking about simply being too fast im talking about going into a different level of reality where other people are like statues and they are not able to precieve him. By the way that women who is standing still is the Juidcator another Elder of the Uiniverse shes no small fry.
Originally posted by Juntai
Oh, and I'll also want you to prove that bit about Grandmaster being skyfather level, like Odin and such, and that he has complete mastery over time and space. Because I showed you a couple of heralds beating up the group of Elders and rounding them into a black hole. But I expect you to come up with another trollish post, and just cry PIS instead, as you've done since page 6, while not making any truly valid points or proving shit.
Well its like this most people agree that GM is above Thanos in terms of power and it states in the scans above that his control over time and space.
AND...theres this....He travlled back in time and created the Squadron Sinister in particular
http://www.marvel.com/universe/Squadron_Sinister
To round out his team the Grandmaster created the Superhuman Hyperion from nothing.
Do you know how powerful Hyperion is and GM created him from nothing after travelling through time. Hyperion is a herald level character, doesnt Big G create herald level characters from his power source?
If you think SS is beating somebody that powerful without PIS then you dont know what it is. Hell SS and Mantis where on a planet with all the Elders and they managed to escape. Theres no way they could escape from GM alone let alone all the Elders.
Originally posted by AlfheimNothing that most speedsters in DC haven't been able to reproduce. The battle between Black Adam and Jay Garrick left everyone else as statues, and Superman has proven to be as fast or faster than both of these characters.
Where these people motionless like statues?http://img121.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=24391_Quasar_58_018_122_692lo.jpg
http://img159.imagevenue.com/view.php?image=24397_Quasar_58_019_122_1082lo.jpgLol im not talking about simply being too fast im talking about going into a different level of reality where other people are like statues and they are not able to precieve him. By the way that women who is standing still is the Juidcator another Elder of the Uiniverse shes no small fry.
Well its like this most people agree that GM is above Thanos in terms of power and it states in the scans above that his control over time and space.
AND...theres this....He travlled back in time and created the Squadron Sinister in particular
http://www.marvel.com/universe/Squadron_Sinister
To round out his team the Grandmaster created the Superhuman Hyperion from nothing.Do you know how powerful Hyperion is and GM created him from nothing after travelling through time. Hyperion is a herald level character, doesnt Big G create herald level characters from his power source?
If you think SS is beating somebody that powerful without PIS then you dont know what it is. Hell SS and Mantis where on a planet with all the Elders and they managed to escape. Theres no way they could escape from GM alone let alone all the Elders.
Same thing happens to any DC speedster who taps the speedforce or starts to use their high end speed.
By the way, your scan clearly says anyone who's superfast can see and talk to them. Doesn't say anything about having to be a skyfather. 🙄
Oh, and that's from the BS Quasar story that had a DC character- Barry Allen outrunning Runner as well. Barry Allan was considered equal in speed to Superman. Btw, nobody takes that story seriously.
http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/553/supermaninvisible44zc.jpg
It's a little blurry, but he clearly says, he's using his speed to vibrate so fast he's invsible.
Lex Luthor has created tons of powerful superbeings in a similar manner to what your link describes Grandmaster having done. Giving them objects and potions of power and shit. Doesn't make you skyfather. lolol.
Even Darkseid created Stayne out of his own power, which is vastly more impressive than that.
Don't even try to compare Grandmaster giving them prisms and potions and shit to what Galactus does when he imbues a herald, lmao. Hyperion though? I'll look into it. These Marvel.com bios are far from accurate most of the time.
Keep trying though.
Originally posted by Juntai
Nothing that most speedsters in DC haven't been able to reproduce. The battle between Black Adam and Jay Garrick left everyone else as statues, and Superman has proven to be as fast or faster than both of these characters.
http://img106.imagevenue.com/view.php?loc=loc24&image=13d5c_justice7.jpg
Notice, even clearly says they're statues.Same thing happens to any DC speedster who taps the speedforce or starts to use their high end speed.
By the way, your scan clearly says anyone who's superfast can see and talk to them. Doesn't say anything about having to be a skyfather. 🙄
Oh, and that's from the BS Quasar story that had a DC character- Barry Allen outrunning Runner as well. Barry Allan was considered equal in speed to Superman. Btw, nobody takes that story seriously.
http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/553/supermaninvisible44zc.jpg
It's a little blurry, but he clearly says, he's using his speed to vibrate so fast he's invsible.
Here's a better picture of your last scan.
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/Supermangoininvisible.jpg
Originally posted by Juntai
Nothing that most speedsters in DC haven't been able to reproduce. The battle between Black Adam and Jay Garrick left everyone else as statues, and Superman has proven to be as fast or faster than both of these characters.
http://img106.imagevenue.com/view.php?loc=loc24&image=13d5c_justice7.jpg
Notice, even clearly says they're statues.
Is that Superman? Those are ordinary people!!!!!! Not herald level characters...good grief.
Originally posted by Juntai
Same thing happens to any DC speedster who taps the speedforce or starts to use their high end speed.
OK if you can give me scans of Supeman doing it then fine and not doing it to ordinary people.
Originally posted by Juntai
By the way, your scan clearly says anyone who's superfast can see and talk to them. Doesn't say anything about having to be a skyfather. 🙄
Ermm you see Ikaris, Sersi and the Juicator there they are all herald level characters. All Herald level characters are fast obvoulsy hes talking about people who are superfast to a certain degree. Has Superman gone so fast that somebody like Shazam or Black Adam is like a statue? No. Furthermore GM is able to precive them but he is able to percieve them due to the fcat of his power.
Originally posted by Juntai
Oh, and that's from the BS Quasar story that had a DC character- Barry Allen outrunning Runner as well. Barry Allan was considered equal in speed to Superman. Btw, nobody takes that story seriously.
Its still a legitimate feat that Runner can make himself that fast.
Originally posted by Juntai
http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/553/supermaninvisible44zc.jpg
It's a little blurry, but he clearly says, he's using his speed to vibrate so fast he's invsible.
Ok i'll try and explain again. Its not the samething hes invisible but the outside world is not motionless. Get it?
Originally posted by Juntai
Lex Luthor has created tons of powerful superbeings in a similar manner to what your link describes Grandmaster having done. Giving them objects and potions of power and shit. Doesn't make you skyfather. lolol.
He didnt use his own power terrible example.
Originally posted by Juntai
Even Darkseid created Stayne out of his own, which is vastly more impressive than that..
Ok how was he created?
Originally posted by Juntai
Don't even try to compare Grandmaster giving them prisms and potions and shit to what Galactus does when he imbues a herald, lmao. Hyperion though? I'll look into it. These Marvel.com bios are far from accurate most of the time.Keep trying though.
He created a herald level acharacter out of nothing.
Originally posted by Juntai
Hence, he created a duplicate Hyperion from pseudo organic matter.
That doesnt state wether it was done through potions or prisms does it? It also states in Gms bio that GM created the squadron through tech but other events contradict this.
http://www.marveldirectory.com/individuals/g/grandmaster.htm
(The Grandmaster once asserted that it was his computers that created the Squadron Sinister, but this statement is contradicted by other accounts.)
IU think they call that retcon at any rate travelling through time effortlessly is powerful enough in itself. SS has done it but it was with great strain. Furthermore SS was used as a pawn in one of GMs games so it goes to show how much more powerful GM is.
