Originally posted by kevdude
We have been through this before 😉 . If you read correctly The Veil was taken off (The Wrath) showing his true face. He is not a part of god but connected to something that is a part of GOD understand? How is it possible the Spectre goes looking for God when you think he is a part of him?? He is NOT! Common sense Juntai!
"Not an demon at all... you're . .part of god itself."
Your interpretaion doesn't match the scans given.
Now like I said, save it for another thread.
There is a lot of good stuff in here, however I'm not completely sold on the UN.
Could the UN destroy the Beyonder (OG) since the Beyonder isn't of the Marvel multiverse?
If it can't, I doubt that it could do anything to the Anti-monitor considering it's outside it's outsides of existances boundaries.
Also, why not just blink Reed out of existence before he has a chance to use it? To these guys space and time are a joke.
Originally posted by BuzzKillerAntimonitor takes them all under his control, feeds their power to his own, and gains the UN.
strange, doom, nate grey, and franklin richards set up a front line and reed puts the ultimate nullifier to the two pests. marvel takes it.
Also, why not just blink Reed out of existence before he has a chance to use it? To these guys space and time are a joke.Exactly. Or take it from him, or any number of things.
Originally posted by kevdudeThe scans are on the last page. I showed them, and you directly tried to contradict them immediately. You don't have to 'let me think' anything. I'm only using exactly what is written on those scans as of Spectre volume 4 issue 4, a part of the issue I had specifically talked with Skeets about gathering the scans for, to squash claims like yours and for point of reference. Hal saw past the veil/The Wrath, and saw Spectre's true face.. the Logoz. It's there easily identifiable in the scan.
Well I'll let you think whatever you want Juntai. All anyone has to do is go to the respect Spectre thread. But about this topic Marvel Earth might win if Reeds and Doom do some quick thinking..
Originally posted by Avalonofthewindno, beyonder is too powerful, beyonder was above everything in the marvel universe.
There is a lot of good stuff in here, however I'm not completely sold on the UN.Could the UN destroy the Beyonder (OG) since the Beyonder isn't of the Marvel multiverse?
If it can't, I doubt that it could do anything to the Anti-monitor considering it's outside it's outsides of existances boundaries.
Also, why not just blink Reed out of existence before he has a chance to use it? To these guys space and time are a joke.
Originally posted by Juntai
You'll also see how easily he defeated the old Guadians of the Universe. Each of was considered to be stronger than the OA Battery, which has been used for reality destruction and recreation. He killed most of the race.Is it OA Battery that creates and destroys reality, or the Guardians?
The Mkraan Crystal can take out the Multi-verse, but Phoenix CAN"T, even though she lives within it..
[QUOTE=7137929]Originally posted by Juntai
[B] What about Batman saying he would put down Spectre?
Or Energy Superman being the 'most powerful being in the omniverse'?
Spideryman saying Sentry can beat Galactus?
Character claims aren't all they're cracked up to be always.
"Character claims"?
uhh Jun,
Jim WAS re-writing the Omni-verse, he would of succeeded to had it not been for Moondragon destroying Earth 238 (a Universe) to stop the Jaspers Warp from re-writing the everything, (as in Omni-verse)
hey you'l see the scans soon enough, I'm just not going to start chopping them up right now...
Originally posted by Juntai
The destruction and recreation of the multiverse? Didn't defeat him, there was still much left to be done, only now it was a more equal playing field. He could actually be defeated after this point.
So why wouldn't that same scenerio work in this battle?
Reed with the UN, remakes the Multi-verse.
Then Jim Jaspers, Evil Molecule Man, Wanda and Insane Genis-Vell along with every super hero and villian on earth, take over from there.
Originally posted by Juntai
When did Wanda actually succeed in destroying the multiverse?
She didn't destroy it completely, the breach in causality was sealed before the Multi-verse and everything beyond could collapse.
The Chaos Wave wiped out countless Universes though, like AM.
It begins by Wanda warping the 616 Reality
Meggan saw the ultimate finality of the Chaos Wave, in a dream.
This isn't some character making claims, one of her powers is to SEE occurrences taking place in the TimeStream.
Here comes the beginning of the Chaos Wave
"The Foundation and Structure of our existence, totally stripped away"
Roma, the Multi-versal Guardian is swept away by the wave.
"a trans-temporal Tsunami. originating from Earth 616" (where Wanda is)
It was "an alteration of global proportions that breached the walls of causality"
But Wanda Warped 616 Universe entirely, and the effects on 616 Earth was catastrophic apparently.
If the breach is not sealed, "the Chaos Wave will continue to expand, perhaps to the Ascention itself" (beyond the Multi-verse)
Roma threatens to erase the 616 Universe in 48 hours, if Captain Britain and company can't seal the breach
note:
AT the end of nearly every crossover House of M was involved, a Universe was destroyed, courtesy of Wanda's Chaos Wave.
Originally posted by Juntai
I don't know enough about Jim to know if he did or not. But from the souds of it, he possibly could.
You'l see the scans soon.
Originally posted by Juntai
Also, as you admitted that Evil Molocule man didn't as well.
True.
But like I said, he didn't because Kubik begged him not to.
But when Evil Molecule Man and Post-retcon Beyonder battled, the Multi-verse was folding/collapsing.
I posted the scans eralier , did you see them?
Originally posted by Juntai
The ultimate nullifier destroyed and remade.
Yes, ALL the Universes in the Marvel Multi-verse, without leaving one...then it remade All the Universes just as quickly.
Originally posted by Juntai
Why are you trying to compare the nullifier and god?
I didn't.
I said:
Originally posted by Mr Master
What more "God" status you want, than recreating every Universe in creation. (UN)
Originally posted by Juntai
Read above about he smashed the Guardians of the Universe. For an example.
And my question still stands.
Do the Guardians, as Individuals have the power to destroy and create the Multi-verse?
Or is it the OA Battery?
Or do they do it through the OA Battery?
Originally posted by Juntai
How is that even an applicable response to what I said? Recreating the Marvel Universe isn't helping the cause here. Rewriting the history of the MARVEL multiverse will not rid them of the anti-monitor,
I wasn't responding to that.
Originally posted by Juntai
as he's not a product of that multiverse and his history is not imbedded in it.
This is what I responded to with said response.
Because he's not of our Multi-verse means nothing.
Once he enters our Multi-verse, Marvel Earth will be able to have an affect on him.
And I 'll say it again...Beyonder was NOT of our Multi-verse, but Doom figured out a way.
Originally posted by Juntai
Hell, it didn't even work for the DC Multiverse to be recreated.
But it did.
You said so yourself.
Originally posted by Juntai
The destruction and recreation of the multiverse? Didn't defeat him, there was still much left to be done, only now it was a more equal playing field. He could actually be defeated after this point.
We can play that game too.
"the Chaos Wave will continue to expand, perhaps to the Ascention itself" (beyond the Multi-verse):
--So were posting even a CHARACTERS SPECULATIONS as fact now?
And how could you have been responding to "as he's not a product of that multiverse and his history is not imbedded in it" when I didn't even say that until after your post, lol. And I certainly don't see how Doom outsmarting Beyonder is in any way applicable to the fact 616 Universe being re-written won't affect Anti-Monitor, because it's history isnt his history. Which is what that was about.
Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
There is a lot of good stuff in here, however I'm not completely sold on the UN.
But it's not the UN alone.
We have Jim Jaspers (Omniversal threat)
We have Scarlet Witch (Multi-versal and Beyond threat)
We have Evil Molecule Man (Multi-versal threat)
We have Reed's Big Bang Bomb (Universal destroyer)
We have Reed's Super Canon (temporarily banished Living Tribunal and the Cosmics)
We have Reed and the UN (Multiversal threat)
Insane Genis-Vell (Universal threat)
We have Jean Grey PF (Universal threat), and if she breaches the Lattice of the Mkraan Crystal, then your talking Multi-versal in scope, the Crystal's capability NOT the Jean.
And we have Dr Doom (with prep took the power of the writer) - (Beyonder)
ey, I think it's PIS too, but it happened.
Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Could the UN destroy the Beyonder (OG) since the Beyonder isn't of the Marvel multiverse?
Impossible.
UN has only been shown on panel to erase and remake one Multi-verse.
While Beyonder had the power of millions of Multiverses.
Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
If it can't, I doubt that it could do anything to the Anti-monitor considering it's outside it's outsides of existances boundaries.
But once the AM enters Marvel Earth, he'll be able to affected like anything else in the Multi-verse.
Beyonder was from an outside existence, but he could still be affected while inside our Multi-verse.
Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Also, why not just blink Reed out of existence before he has a chance to use it? To these guys space and time are a joke.
I have more than a few characters that can warp space, time, matter and energy, on every scale imaginable.
My team is not going to stand around, and wait to be blinked away.
Originally posted by Juntai
"the Chaos Wave will continue to expand, perhaps to the Ascention itself" (beyond the Multi-verse):--So were posting even a CHARACTERS SPECULATIONS as fact now?
That's Roma the Omniversal Guardian your talking about.
Wiping out a Universe is small potatos for her.
I will confidently except her wisdom and knowledge of events on that scale.
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt,
Fine.
She speculated about it reaching beyond the boundaries of the Multi-verse.
I still think the writers included that statement for us to be able to gauge the Chaos Wave's power. (now I'm speculating)
Originally posted by Juntai
And how could you have been responding to "as he's not a product of that multiverse and his history is not imbedded in it" when I didn't even say that until after your post, lol.
The Pineal Gland/Third Eye, allows me to see the future. 😂
Originally posted by Juntai
And I certainly don't see how Doom outsmarting Beyonder is in any way applicable
Doom outsmarting Beyonder shows how capable Marvel Earth is.
Originally posted by Juntai
to the fact 616 Universe being re-written won't affect Anti-Monitor, because it's history isnt his history. Which is what that was about.
But who says he HAS to be in it's history.
The UN does NOT only reboot the Multi-verse's history, it actually creates it, in the wielder's image.
So although AM or Imperiex are not part of our reality, Reed will use the UN to make a Multi-verse where he is a part of it.
Problem solved.
Originally posted by Mr MasterRight, she said PERHAPS... her guess may have been as good as anyones, but she obviously didn't state fact. She assumed herself.
That's Roma the Omniversal Guardian your talking about.Wiping out a Universe is small potatos for her.
I will confidently except her wisdom and knowledge of events on that scale.
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt,
Fine.
She speculated about it reaching beyond the boundaries of the Multi-verse.
I still think the writers included that statement for us to be able to gauge the Chaos Wave's power. (now I'm speculating)
The Pineal Gland/Third Eye, allows me to see the future. 😂
Doom outsmarting Beyonder shows how capable Marvel Earth is.
But who says he HAS to be in it's history.
The UN does NOT only reboot the Multi-verse's history, it actually creates it, in the wielder's image.
So although AM or Imperiex are not part of our reality, reed will use the UN to make Multi-verse where he is a part of it.
Problem solved.
😆 @ seeing future.
Let get this straight. . . . you're saying. . .Reed can make a character that's not even the same company or from the main multiverse of either, become part of his reality?
Got some proof of that one?
Originally posted by Juntai
Right, she said PERHAPS... her guess may have been as good as anyones, but she obviously didn't state fact. She assumed herself.
You know, now that you made me focus on what Roma said,
I just realized she's NOT talking about "beyond the Multi-verse" when she mentions 'the Ascension" like I thought.
There are several known Universes in Marvel outside the Multi-verse, so the "Ascension" can't simply be beyond the Multi-verse.
She's referring to that which is outside/beyond the Omni-verse.
In other words, the Chaos Wave would indeed collapse the Marvel Omni-verse given the time.
Originally posted by Juntai
😆 @ seeing future.
You must be laughing at Meggan seeing the Future of the Chaos Wave.
"the End of ALL that is, of ALL that will EVER be"
Thses are NOT just claims...they are visions of the Future, from one who's power is such...
Originally posted by Juntai
Let get this straight. . . . you're saying. . .Reed can make a character that's not even the same company or from the main multiverse of either, become part of his reality?Got some proof of that one?
So what are you saying?
That some character from an alien company can actually enter Earth 616?
If my peoples are not allowed to affect your team because their from seperate companies?
What's the point of this debate then?
We're assuming that they can both affect each other, that's the point of making vs threads that include characters from different companies.
AM is also a master of time...he can go back into the past and kill Reed Richards if he wanted to...or prevent him from finding the UN...if the UN would even work on AM. Pre-Crisis DC was so much more powerful than Marvel Earth...in terms of the numbers of beings with extraordinary powers. Today, Marvel has many characters with insane powers...but, they would not be enough to take out AM and IP at the same time. Marvel Earth would need help...just like DC needed it.
Originally posted by charlemagne9746
AM is also a master of time...he can go back into the past and kill Reed Richards if he wanted to...or prevent him from finding the UN...if the UN would even work on AM. Pre-Crisis DC was so much more powerful than Marvel Earth...in terms of the numbers of beings with extraordinary powers. Today, Marvel has many characters with insane powers...but, they would not be enough to take out AM and IP at the same time. Marvel Earth would need help...just like DC needed it.
I have more than a few characters that can control Time on any scale, that would not be an issue.
We have Jim Jaspers (Omniversal threat)
We have Scarlet Witch (Omniversal threat and "perhaps beyond"😉
We have Evil Molecule Man (Multi-versal threat)
We have Reed's Big Bang Bomb (Universal destroyer)
We have Reed's Super Canon (temporarily banished Living Tribunal and the Cosmics)
We have Reed and the UN (Multiversal threat)
Insane Genis-Vell (Universal threat)
We have Jean Grey PF (Universal threat), and if she breaches the Lattice of the Mkraan Crystal, then your talking Multi-versal in scope, the Crystal's capability NOT the Jean.
And we have Dr Doom (with prep took the power of the writer) - (Beyonder)
ey, I think it's PIS too, but it happened.
Plus every hero and villian on Earth.
You do the math.
Originally posted by Juntai
Let get this straight. . . . you're saying. . .Reed can make a character that's not even the same company or from the main multiverse of either, become part of his reality?Got some proof of that one?
Nope. It can't. But it still doesn't matter because that's not how the U.N. works and how forum rules work. If you have proof that the U.N. is limited to just MU, please provide proof Juntai. Let's not bring up which universe they are in since how would you know that the Anti-Monitor and Imperiex would operate the same way they do in the MU? The existence of the MU is not due in part to Imperiex.
Thirdly, this invasion in on MARVEL EARTH. Let's not bring up juridiction and such.
To the fight itself Marvel Earth would loose unless the higher abstracts intervened. They can't win unless guys like Strange, Doom, Reed, Stark, Quasar, and the top tiers have time to prep. for the fight. Even then they'd more likely get crushed.
Avalonofthewind There is a lot of good stuff in here, however I'm not completely sold on the UN.Could the UN destroy the Beyonder (OG) since the Beyonder isn't of the Marvel multiverse?
The Anti-Monitor is not in the least comparable to the Beyonder. AM gained more power by absorbing and taking powers. Beyonder went about snapping his fingers and making things happen, raised and lowered people's powers, including his own. With Apokolips tech, Darkseid destroyed AM's physical body; with Eternity to power his Beyonder's bane, Mephisto still needed to use Beyonder's own power against Beyonder. Beyonder is leagues above AM, so I wouldn't be surprised the UN wouldn't work on him. Short of a retconning, Beyonder was top dawg.
Ironically Beyonder's existence called for a retconning. AM's existence was to instigate events that lead to a retconning. 😂
If it can't, I doubt that it could do anything to the Anti-monitor considering it's outside it's outsides of existances boundaries.Also, why not just blink Reed out of existence before he has a chance to use it? To these guys space and time are a joke.
Forums rules Avalonofthewind. 😉
I haven't seen AM blink anyone out of existence yet. Imperiex as well. But there's no stopping them from vaporizing the entire planet with Reed and FF tower on it. But seriously? The UN would vaporize both Imperiex and AM. Considering it still Pre-Crisis heroes that was hurting AM, Dr. Light putting a whole into AM for the first kill, Darkseid destroying his body with just Apokolips tech, and PC Superman destroying the burning essence for the final kill, I don't see how that's anything that puts above the U.N.
AM and Imperiex 7-8-9/10.
Most of those characters could probably do nothing to AM if they happened to go back in time in an attempt to stop him. However, AM could a lot to them...i'm sure..lol
All of Marvel Earth would probably be busy with Imperiex Prime, giving AM a good opportunity to blast an anti-matter shockwave throughout the universe.
Originally posted by Mr Master
You know, now that you made me focus on what Roma said,
I just realized she's NOT talking about "beyond the Multi-verse" when she mentions 'the Ascension" like I thought.There are several known Universes in Marvel outside the Multi-verse, so the "Ascension" can't simply be beyond the Multi-verse.
She's referring to that which is outside/beyond the Omni-verse.In other words, the Chaos Wave would indeed collapse the Marvel Omni-verse given the time.
No, she said it PERHAPS would. She obviously doesn't know, or it would have been a "WILL" do it.
You must be laughing at Meggan seeing the Future of the Chaos Wave.What are you talking about?"the End of ALL that is, of ALL that will EVER be"
Thses are NOT just claims...they are visions of the Future, from one who's power is such...
Did that future happen?
Guess she's another false visionary.
So what are you saying?No, I'm saying I don't see how changing the history of Marvel Universe is going to change the history of someone merely impeding on the universe. Of course they can attack eachother.That some character from an alien company can actually enter Earth 616?
If my peoples are not allowed to affect your team because their from seperate companies?
What's the point of this debate then?
We're assuming that they can both affect each other, that's the point of making vs threads that include characters from different companies. [/B]
