Robert Spencer: Islam as a peaceful religion is "hogwash".

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Lil Bitchiness,

Your posted images were very insightful. Because of them, I feel more disrespect towards the majority of Muslims who dwell in the East. However, I still have no resentment towards the majority of Muslims who live here.

Islam in the East is a savage religion...that is very clear. In the West, however, I think we can safely say the fundamentalism of Islam has toned down quite a bit.

Christianity still has a bloodier history than Islam, Lil B....

Yes, [b]TODAY Islam is the bigger threat to Global Peace...but until Muslims succeed in committing a nation wide witch trial, committing national inquisition (not just city-wide), and conquer and rape the culture of numerous nations....it still doesn't accomplish the collective horrors that the Christian Church has. [/B]

Lu,

I promise you, Islam does have bloodier history - and you know which part makes it just that much bloodier?
India.
Islamic invasion of India has seen death of 100 million Hindus. 😖 With the Entry of Arabians to India, Delhi was cleared within a matter of a day. Not a dog was left a live.
That mounted up to 600, 000 of people in 24h. Crazy.
That articular invasion was the worst because noone was spared.

I swear it is not an overexaggeration, 100 million Hindus have died. Google will explain more.

1.5 million Aramanians (I am not sure if you guys in the USA are following the arguent of acknowledgeent of the genocide in Armania?)
The newest one is in Sudan, Darfur (which you know of anyway), Chechnya, also exterination of Jews and Christians in today's Iran and Iraq.
Today's Middle east was not entiraly pagan, (as im sure you know anyway), the tribes of Jews and Christians lived together.
And in Arabia there was no religious conflict up until Muhammad.

Remember that Nietzsche quote: ''Insanity in individuals is something rare - but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule.''

I believe this is so true, and can be seen / proven throughout the world.

I feel sorry for Muslims. I feel sorry for those who don't want to do what its been said by their immams, but out of fear for their lives they must.
I feel copassion and sorrow for those who WANT to go and die for Allah because they have been brainwashed for political purpose.

I feel sorry for the children who will grow up to hate. This is what hurts me and scares me even more. Why must we do this?!

It just shows how powerful any idology is with the people. It is actually the ideas of control through Ideology that lead me to learn about Islam.

Also, here is some more info for you, that you might have not known 😮-

Name 'Pakistan' is a direct insult to Indians.
When a Muslim population of India decided they wanted atonomy of the reagon, India allowed, and the Muslims (arab and otherwise) called this country Pakistan.
Paki in Urdu means 'clean', 'stan' (which is same in y language) means a 'place of residence'...to be loosely translated. So that kind of implies that all Hindu's are dirty.

The point is, I feel sorry for the Muslims in the Middle East. And ost of all, I feel sorry for those who out of fear for their life go along to do things they would never have done so.

As far as Christianity goes - to be honest, I never really cared for it. Much like you guys in the USA are not affected by Islam, as much as we are - in the east we are not affected negatively by Christianity as such.
We had too much to worry regarding Islaic invasion, that there is no recorded Church ordered killing in Eastern Christian religion.

This is one of the reason I get angry when people brand ''all christians' to have been doing this.
Copts and Orthodox do not fit in majority of Western Christian deonination categories - such as wich triels for example or the nuerous excommunications and other random things as such.
Also, as you may already know, for the Eastern Christians Pope is not a head nor is he regarded as such.

Eastern Orthodox and Copts have this whole thing about
''everyone is made in the image of god, not matter how bad, and thus everyone deserves respect a basic human right because they are made in the image of god'' or something like that...

To Quote the Orthodox views -

''The "image of God," is the commonly held nature of all human beings. Though sin has had its impact upon human nature, so that all of our faculties are in some measure darkened and distorted, the Orthodox see human beings as still possessing a strong residue of the God-given likeness which is the essence of our humanity. Our intelligence, our power of self-determination, our aesthetic sense, our creativity, our moral perception, our integration of the individual and the social into our personhood, and numerous other characteristics provide manifestations of such likeness.

Since all people share in the divine image, all persons enjoy a basic and fundamental human dignity before God, simply because they are human. As a result, God treats people with a fundamental dignity and respect, and expects that people will treat each other in the same way''

I coped that from a radnom Orthodox website...

I guess I should have taken into consideration that Christianity in the West has not been ever so kind. My appologies.
I should have taken into understanding different historical approaches.

I didn't care much about what you said untill you brought that bullsh!t that you "feel sorry", first of all, don't lie, you do not feel sorry and second, there is nothing to be sorry about. Muslims do what they do not because they are threatened by Immams or fear for their lifes and suicide bombings happen not because these people are brainwashed, but because they are desperate, and children will grow up to hate not because their religion tells them to hate, but because they grow up and they do not see anything but violance and murders around them and it's not fault of religion, neither it fault of their parents or immams, but fault of countries that want to destroy them for their own puposes. One doesn't have to study hystory to learn what's going on, it would take him just to look around. Your biggest problem is that everything bad that happens you try to blame on Islam, and it makes as much sense as blaming any other religion for wars and crimes people all over the world commit only because they say they follow this religion.
Force yourself and watch the video Crazy posted, at least half of it. May be it'd make you see the whole picture and not small parts you choose to see.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...eace+propaganda

*pats ms. bitchiness on the back*

great additions to the bullshitted propaganda.

Originally posted by Punkyhermy
*pats ms. bitchiness on the back*

great additions to the bullshitted propaganda.

This whole discussion is becoming pointless. People just dont listen.

Originally posted by Alfheim
This whole discussion is becoming pointless. People just dont listen.

I concur.

Originally posted by Punkyhermy
*pats ms. bitchiness on the back*

great additions to the bullshitted propaganda.

Muhammad was -

a rapist
a pedophile (had sex with a 9 year old child)
an assassin
a mass murderer
a ruthless torturer
a terrorist
a lecher
a misogynist
a narcissist
a thief and plunderer
a cult leader
a mentally deranged (was paranoid, heard voices, hallucinated of seeing jinns, Satan and angels, used to think he had sex with his wives when he did not, suffered from depression and had suicidal tendencies).

No propaganda - just truth. Thats why Islam cannot withstand criticism, but must resort to violence and threats.

Because if you expose only ONE truth regarding Muhammad and Islam, the whole religion will come thumbling down.

The best way to say it, is through a song!

ISLAM's NOT FOR ME!!

Curtesy of islamcomicbook.com.

Originally posted by Sam Z
I didn't care much about what you said untill you brought that bullsh!t that you "feel sorry", first of all, don't lie, you do not feel sorry and second, there is nothing to be sorry about. Muslims do what they do not because they are threatened by Immams or fear for their lifes and suicide bombings happen not because these people are brainwashed, but because they are desperate, and children will grow up to hate not because their religion tells them to hate, but because they grow up and they do not see anything but violance and murders around them and it's not fault of religion, neither it fault of their parents or immams, but fault of countries that want to destroy them for their own puposes. One doesn't have to study hystory to learn what's going on, it would take him just to look around. Your biggest problem is that everything bad that happens you try to blame on Islam, and it makes as much sense as blaming any other religion for wars and crimes people all over the world commit only because they say they follow this religion.
Force yourself and watch the video Crazy posted, at least half of it. May be it'd make you see the whole picture and not small parts you choose to see.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...eace+propaganda

Sam....most Muslims in the West happen to be very decent people, and no different from the rest of us.

However, in the East...it's a totally different story. Lil Bitchiness is right about one thing: Islam in the East is over all a Savage religion, because the Quran gives enough justification for violence against women and people of different faiths and ethnicities, the same way the Bible gave enough justification for the burning of witches, torturing of infidels, and slaughtering of other cultures.

I am not Anti-Muslim, the same way I am not Anti-Christian (although many people swear I am)

I am anti-violence, I am anti-hatred, and I am anti-ignorance.

Do I poke fun at religion? F*ck yeah...all the time. But whatever negative input I throw at religion is CHILDS PLAY compared to what violence and atrocities religion has played a role in throughout human history even uptil today.

Islam, LIKE Christianity, can only be RATED by the PEOPLE who PRACTICE and REPRESENT IT....it has its GOOD AND BAD aspects.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Sam....most Muslims in the West happen to be very decent people, and no different from the rest of us.

The thing is even in the West, the teachings of Islam encourage people to want to do terrorism.

Originally posted by Punkyhermy
*pats ms. bitchiness on the back*

great additions to the bullshitted propaganda.

Don't waste your time, she will not listen.
She says that all muslims that learn history of islam quit to be muslims. That's funny since all children in muslim countries study hystory, including hystory of Islam and about Mohammad. I studied history of different cultures 1 year ago including hystory of islam. Followers of the Mohhamad were hounded, killed and tortured, and people that did that wanted to kill Mohammad himself. And the only people he killed were those who attacked him and wanted him dead. He wasn't torturing anyone or killing inocent people and he certanly was not a "pedophile". When people hear word "harem" they usually think of one guy with hookah surounded by many half-naked girls, but these people do not realise that when man took girl as his wife he also took responsibility to take care of her and ALL her realatives.
As i said before don't waste your time talking to her. She simply hates Islam for some reason and she looks for other reasons to justify her hatred. She blames Islam for what happened in Beslan even though ALL muslims felt sorry for victims just like everybody else. So everything that happens she blames on religion because she simply hate it. She even thinks that killing thousands inocent people is fine if they are muslims. It's true, that's what she thinks (that's what i realised when I posted pictures of palestinian children). And she says that Mohammad was evil afer that. And the funniest thing of all is that people like her know nothing about Islam and haven't even read Qur'an. They all use a couple of sites as their source and these sites were created by the same people that just happened to hate Islam.

Originally posted by Alfheim
This whole discussion is becoming pointless. People just dont listen.

And people are correct. That's what you should do. Not listen to EVERYTHING someone tell you since 50% of it is bs and another 50% is perverted story taken from some sites.

Originally posted by Sam Z
And people are correct. That's what you should do. Not listen to EVERYTHING someone tell you since 50% of it is bs and another 50% is perverted story taken from some sites.

Whatever.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Whatever.

An easy response huh?

As far as Ali Sina goes, I have read a countless number of his works and first I thought he was legit but then I realized the hypocrisy and the hate that he carries so it is very hard to take him seriously.

You gotta admit though....Muhammed isn't really a role model that one should follow fundamentally if one wants Peace...

There is nothing wrong with admiring Mohammed and looking to him for SOME sort of inspiration.

For Example: I happen to admire Alexander the Great intensively. I think he was a great leader, an amazing warrior, and such a strong and intelligent person.

However, Alexander the Great did kill many many many many many innocent people....

Same with Nefertiti...an amazing Egyptian woman, she became Pharaoh (which was rare for a female at that time), gained all that power, and is known as one of the most beautiful women in history.....such an admirable person, yet she ALSO killed many innocent people during her reign.

I think it's okay to admire icons, but when you aim to follow them tooth and nail, then a problem occurs.

Originally posted by Alfheim
This whole discussion is becoming pointless. People just dont listen.

Yeah. We'll I got so pissed off I took a break. Sorry if I burned some of your posts, I know there was one where you asked my to respond.

I get sick of propoganda. 😘 You personally are not that bad.

There is a difference between listening and forced agreement.

Stuff like lil's stupid song just scream blind ignorance/discrimination.

Originally posted by Alliance
Yeah. We'll I got so pissed off I took a break. Sorry if I burned some of your posts, I know there was one where you asked my to respond.

I get sick of propoganda. 😘 You personally are not that bad.

There is a difference between listening and forced agreement.

Stuff like lil's stupid song just scream blind ignorance/discrimination.

How dare you call me Ignorant, when you are the one with absolutely no knowledge of Islam or its history! Shame on you!
Do us all a favour and pick up a book. Its one thing to be ignorant, but its a whole different thing to be annoying at that.

How the **** is disagreeing with an ideology discrimination?

I have the RIGHT to disagree with an ideology.

To discriminate against something, or to be phobic against it is to criticise an object or a statement which is already established as TRUE - to criticise something or to show hostility or criticism towards something which is true, is known as IRRATIONAL, and we refer to it as being ''phobic'' or sometimes discriminatory!

Since I do not discriminate and/or hate Muslims, but I criticise their ideology, and since Islam is NOT established as true, your claim is idiotic!

I challenge you to do your best in telling me why Islam is a religion of peace, and what Muhammad brought in Arabia that was new, if you are so damn knopwledgeble!

I'll start with what Muhammad DIDN'T bring to Arabia -

[list]- Mecca was a pre-Islamic pagan center of worship.
- The Kabah in Mecca was a pre-Islamic pagan temple, filled with 360 idols.
- The pre-Islamic pagan Arabs prayed by bowing down toward Mecca several times a day.
- Pre-Islamic pagan Arabs made pilgrimages to Mecca.
- Pre-Islamic pagan Arabs ran around the Kabah seven times.
- Pre-Islamic pagan Arabs held their public meetings on Friday instead of Saturday or Sunday.
- Pre-Islamic pagan Arabs fasted during the day and feasted at night for one month.
- The pre-Islamic pagan Arab fast began and ended with the moon in its crescent phase.
- Pre-Islamic pagan Arabs gave alms to the poor.
- Pre-Islamic pagan Arabs performed ritual washings before prayers.
- As one of their washings before prayer, Pre-Islamic pagan Arabs snorted water up and then out of their noses.
- Pre-Islamic pagan Arabs cut off the hands of thieves.
- Pre-Islamic pagan Arabs prohibited the eating of swine flesh.
- According to pre-Islamic Arab history, the Kabah at Mecca was built by Kosia, the pagan great-grandfather of Mohammed.
- The title "Al-Ilah" was used by pre-Islamic pagan Arabs in reference to one of the 360 gods worshiped at the Kabah.
- Mohammed's father lived and died as a pre-Islamic pagan, and yet the word "Allah" was part of his name.
- Yusuf Ali points out in his translation of the Qur'an that the moon was worshiped as a god by pagan Arabs.
- The religion of Islam has adopted the name, the rituals, and the crescent moon symbol of the pagan Arab moon-god.
- Some of the material found in the Qur'an can be traced back to pre-Islamic pagan Arab religions.
- The people of Mohammed's day are recorded in the Qur'an as saying that Mohammed took old wive's tales and myths and put them into the Qur'an.
- Muhammad's first, pre-prophethood wife, Khadija was a Christian - she told him stories from Moses to the death of Jesus.
- Pre-Islamic pagan Arabs never practiced polygamy.
- Pre-Islamic pagan Arabian women did not cover up, or wear burqa.[/list]

WHAT DID MUHAMMAD BRING TO ARABIA THAT WAS NEW?!

- A vengeful sadistic Deity.
- Polygamy.
- Paedophilia.
- Violence.

Pre-Islamic pagan Arabs HATED Muhammad - Quraish is more than a perfect example. That is why they fought him from beginning till the end, and up until the band of Muhammad's raiders and rapists overpowered polythene Arabians.

The only reason people in Yathrib sided with Muhammad was because they saw him as a tool to disatroy Jews who were bickering with Arabs perminantly.

The two communities were often on the bickering and there were a lot of battles between them.

Jews were (and are - may I add) also of the same ethnicity as the pre-Islamic Arab tribes!
The Arabs were more numerous, but the Jews by virtue of being traders were more prosperous and better organized, they also had built fortresses to defend themselves.
In these battles the Jews were normally victorious against the Arabs, and they were often boost how they will destroy the other tribe once the prophet of God arrives (remembering of course that Jews are waiting for the Messiah!)

Arabs in Yathrib knew that Mohammed had been declaring himself to be the prophet of god, and that he was on his way to Yathrib so they then decided to outwit the Jews by becoming his followers and seek his help in defeating the Jews, before the Jews could get to him.

Abdullah-ibn-ubay, the leader of Yathrib displayed openly contempt for Mohammed - repetedly so!

Yathrib and Quraish were also politically plotting agians teach other (just like all places and tribes in the world at the time were!) so the people who hated Mecca, were the first to come with Muhammad - NOT because he preached a religion, but because they saw it as a useful revenge tactic - which Muhammad later used, when he lead his band of murderer and rapists to Mecca to raid and kill and pick uop the treasures!
He organized 64 such raids from 622 to 630, of which he personally led 27 raids!

Yathrib is Meddina - but I refer to it by its PROPER name, because for whatever reason Muhammad renamed Yathrib to Meddina.

Mohammed attracted his followers with lust for booty and sex slaves. The captured women were distributed by Mohammed amongst his followers.
Thus his followers had greed to motivate them, while the Quraish (the Meccans) were fighting a defensive war to protect their caravans from Mohammeds greedy, predatory raids. (As the Americans are today also fighting the War on Terror to keep the oil flowing from the Middle East oil wells).
While Mohammed was fighting to disrupt his adversary (as Osama Bin Laden and Zarqawi are doing today).

Woo-Hoo! And the hisotry is repeting itself

Pre-Islamic pagan Arabs NEVER before raped women which were captured in the WAR - a documented history that this was forbidden!

And this is all before the murders of other resisting tribes, rapes of women, his 16 wifes, molestation of 9 year old A'Isha, torture of Baries for gold..etc.

But you don't know this of course, since you know next to nothing of Pre-SIalmic Arabia or Islam for that matter, yet you have the cheek to call ME ignorant.

This is ALL recorded history - by Muslims themselves, as well as independent Archeological findings and historians.

So again I pose the question - WHAT DID MUHAMMAD BRING TO PRE-ISLAMIC PAGAN ARABIANS THAT WAS NEW?!

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
I concur.

No propaganda Honey.

Muhammad was -

a rapist
a pedophile (had sex with a 9 year old child)
an assassin
a mass murderer
a ruthless torturer
a terrorist
a lecher
a misogynist
a narcissist
a thief and plunderer
a cult leader
a mentally deranged (was paranoid, heard voices, hallucinated of seeing jinns, Satan and angels, used to think he had sex with his wives when he did not, suffered from depression and had suicidal tendencies).

No propaganda - just truth. Thats why Islam cannot withstand criticism, but must resort to violence and threats.

Because if you expose only ONE truth regarding Muhammad and Islam, the whole religion will come thumbling down.

The best way to say it, is through a song!

ISLAM's NOT FOR ME!!

Curtesy of islamcomicbook.com.

Originally posted by lord xyz
This is a classic example of people who take things like the Quran out of context. It doesn't matter how bad Muhammed was, it's Islam beliefs that we're discussing.

Right, so who do muslims follow as their example........ ? 😕

It is important how bad Mohammed was, because muslims keep justifying the evil that hes done.

islam, like christianity, is stained in blood. the majority of christians today are of a more "civilised" people, so there is less bloodshed in the name of god. however the middle east is in chaos, murdurously opressed by followers of other religions, and in the constant state of poverty and insecurity, and thus is more violent and fanatic of religion. if the tables were turned, and christians as a whole were less prosperous and civilised, it would be the violent religion, digging into the violent and intolerant depths of the old testament to justify killing of nonbelievers, while most muslems, like christians today, would be calm and selective of what text they choose to abide by in the name of civility.

to look for loophole differences in scripture between religions as a means of calling one evil is a pathetic attempt.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Right, so who do muslims follow as their example........ ? 😕

It is important how bad Mohammed was, because muslims keep justifying the evil that hes done.

Originally posted by PVS
islam, like christianity, is stained in blood. the majority of christians today are of a more "civilised" people, so there is less bloodshed in the name of god. however the middle east is in chaos, murdurously opressed by followers of other religions, and in the constant state of poverty and insecurity, and thus is more violent and fanatic of religion. if the tables were turned, and christians as a whole were less prosperous and civilised, it would be the violent religion, digging into the violent and intolerant depths of the old testament to justify killing of nonbelievers, while most muslems, like christians today, would be calm and selective of what text they choose to abide by in the name of civility.

to look for loophole differences in scripture between religions as a means of calling one evil is a pathetic attempt.

Originally posted by lord xyz
S oyour saying that rape, murder, torture and theivery are allowed in Saudi Arabia? hmm

Well actually a guy can most likely get away with raping a women in a muslim country. So yeah you could say to an extent rape is allowed. In Islam the rules are firmly stacked against women, and they use this in muslim countries.

Originally posted by lord xyz
S oyour saying that rape, murder, torture and theivery are allowed in Saudi Arabia? hmm

Agreed. It's not the religion that made Muslims what they are. They got dirt, they got poverty, they got disease, they got war, I'm surpirsed they haven't conquered Europe now, and forced Europeans to be Muslim or dead.

I see you dont know any Islamic history either. 🙄

[QUOTE=7613266]Originally posted by lil bitchiness
[B]I concur.

No propaganda Honey.

Muhammad was -

a rapist
a pedophile (had sex with a 9 year old child)
an assassin
a mass murderer
a ruthless torturer
a terrorist
a lecher
a misogynist
a narcissist
a thief and plunderer
a cult leader
a mentally deranged (was paranoid, heard voices, hallucinated of seeing jinns, Satan and angels, used to think he had sex with his wives when he did not, suffered from depression and had suicidal tendencies).

No propaganda - just truth. Thats why Islam cannot withstand criticism, but must resort to violence and threats.

Because if you expose only ONE truth regarding Muhammad and Islam, the whole religion will come thumbling down.

The best way to say it, is through a song!

i think you are very ignorance and very lazy to discover his personality
he is realy great human .