Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
First error - Presence didn't know: http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/67...ctre6102do2.jpgThies he isnt omnisient.
- For those who don't get it:
Presence: Amy, was she in heaven too?
I can't get to the scan damit. Do you have the pages before and after. So I can see in what context the presecen was talking?
Originally posted by Thanos_THOTUthe scan didnt com through
First error - Presence didn't know: http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/67...ctre6102do2.jpgThies he isnt omnisient.
- For those who don't get it:
Presence: Amy, was she in heaven too?
Originally posted by Thanos_THOTUSweet!!
http://img96.imageshack.us/my.php?image=b2ie8.jpgThat sums it up.
There is/was no force more poweful than him.Omnisient isnt a factor when it comes to omnipotence in battle.
Because either way they will keep on fighting each other for "omni-time".
You cannot kill a truley omnipotent being...
Originally posted by bigbranKeep in mind this happened on panel, unlike Beyonder talking about himself.
Tis, a shame he couldn't even pull out one single feat.
Well, here it goes.
Courtesy of Skeets.God, here is shown eating Micheal. He has killed everyone in Heaven.
He also defends Spectre's attack from behind with a sword like nothing.
Spectre, has actually attacked God, but yet is, quite helpless.
God could have easily slain Spectre like nothing.
http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/1512/spectre6101fq0.jpg
http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/6717/spectre6102do2.jpg
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/2651/spectre6103iz7.jpg
http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/4032/spectre6104vw0.jpg
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/8225/spectre6105bt0.jpg
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/2961/spectre6106fo2.jpg
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/4919/spectre6107ct1.jpg
http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/5435/spectre6108qv0.jpg
http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/5574/spectre6109od9.jpg
Originally posted by bigbranI bet your going to say I'm speculating right? There should be nothing wrong with this, unlike some of the things you have usd to make people more powerful than the Presence.
I also feel that everything Spectre has ever done, God could do one million times over.
He did after all create Micheal, who on panel has wrecked Spectre on more than one occasion.
And then in the post above, God was shown eating Micheal, and then making Spectre look like a new born against Mike Tyson.(I heard he likes those things...)
Originally posted by bigbran
Now, we all know, that the Source wall is the power behind the almighty(Darkseid, Superman)
Yet, he doesn't want shit to do with Lucifer.What does this prove exactly?
What it proves, is that Lucifer is above the Source Wall, to a point of not even noticing him.
While Micheal is equal to Lucifer. Which on panel, Micheal was a little Fruit-Rollup to God.
Supreme, yes!More, of course!
Lucifer is able to kill Immortal beings. Fenris the Wolf, he is the immortal god of destruction
http://www3.flickr.com/photos/ddofer/127832770/in/set-72057594104607199/
http://www3.flickr.com/photos/ddofer/127833094/in/set-72057594104607199/Micheal is equal to Lucifer, which also means that he would get crushed like a coke can, against a train, to God.
The angles(Lucifer, Micheal) can destroy immortal beings.
God can eat everyone in Heaven.
Micheal has even beaten Spectre 2x before.(I'll get them if you need them.)
This would also show that Lucifer and Micheal are above Spectre.
Even the second most powerful beings in DC/Vertigo are still nothing to God.
That whole thing between God and Spectre and Micheal isn't really true though. That was just something Corrigan experienced. Heaven is relative to the individual in DC. That would be like taking it as canon that Hal Jordan saw Barry Allen in Heaven as Spectre-- only... Barry Allen isn't dead now or then. It's personalized. It was just something Corrigan needed to experience. Funny how God was actually Corrigan's father, huh? OMG THE PRESENCE IS CORRIGANS DAD!
Originally posted by galan7777777That's different though. That was Yahweh, and while some accept it a canon, it's not truly considered so for the DCU. However a lot of events in Vertigo do coincide.
i wish i had a scanner, then i could post the issue of lucifer, where god was seen and spoke about recreating/destroying all of creation..... mega_shok
Originally posted by Juntaithats what im saying, but he also refered to himself as god.......that was gods only appearence in comics where he talked about what he could do with his powers
That's different though. That was Yahweh, and while some accept it a canon, it's not truly considered so for the DCU. However a lot of events in Vertigo do coincide.
Originally posted by Juntaivertigo and DC are in the same continuity so i figured it was cannon, and also if that god cannot be used, then what can? he dosent have any other appearences other then in the spectre series, but those can be argued
And what I'm saying is-
That's Vertigo. This thread is DC.
Originally posted by galan7777777That's because in DC comics, God is not a character, he is all consuming. That's what I've been saying this whole time.
vertigo and DC are in the same continuity so i figured it was cannon, and also if that god cannot be used, then what can? he dosent have any other appearences other then in the spectre series, but those can be argued
Originally posted by Juntaiyeah i completely understand what you are saying, but Thanos THOTU was arguing about god (as a physical) being, and that why i said that i wish i could post those scans of him in the lucifer series
That's because in DC comics, God is not a character, he is all consuming. That's what I've been saying this whole time.
Didn't know MULTI-DEATH was there, and I also didn't know there were MULTIVERSAL Abstracts there.
hmm...Eternity the Living Tribunal and this bunch of NON Multiversals.
Not even Universal Death is there.
Unfortunately though the Abstracts your talking about were ALL UNIVERSAL, and LESS than UNIVERSAL, including Eternity (who was representing ONE UNIVERSE)
Try and understand, Beyonder ERASED the MULTIVERSAL Concept of Death.
That has NEVER been done before or after.
Originally posted by lft4ded
I understand the difference between what Warlock and Beyonder did, but was using it as an example that we don't even have proof that Beyonder is more powerful than LT.
Bad example.
Beyonder is FAR FAR ABOVE LT, and there's PLENTY of Proof.
Originally posted by lft4ded
LT has let universal concepts be destroyed before. Even though LT is the multiversal judge, he judges the individual universes.
No he does NOT.
The Living Tribunal's job is to maintain Balance in the Multiverse
He will only act against a Universe, if it upsets that balance.
Originally posted by lft4ded
He allowed Adam his outburst and was willing to even let the concept of time/Eternity to be replaced Adam seemed unstoppable, and prior to him Thanos who stilled the 616 Abstracts with a thought when he grew bored with the fight, but by over-ruling him LT cemented his place.
I know all this,
Adam was unstoppable, only LT & TOAA are Above the IG.
Originally posted by lft4ded
Eternity claimed that if he was complete (Multi-Eternity) then he wouldn't have problem dealing with the IG,
Eternity was proven wrong, when the IG made the Ultimate Nullifier it's b*tch.
The Ultimate Nullifier can destroy and remake the Multi-verse in an instant.
Originally posted by lft4ded
and I think that its accepted that even complete, LT could still handle Multi-Eternity. He is the multi-versal judge.
Absolutely, LT is second only to TOAA.
Originally posted by lft4ded
Then again, Eternity thought the combined might of the 616 concepts could stand against the IG and how wrong he proved to be.
Just like he was wrong about Multi-Eternity being immune to the IG.
Originally posted by lft4ded
IDK, I see in the same way we (I'm assuming) compare universal entities to multi-versal entities in the sense of which is the greater feat. TOAA created the multi-verse whereas Beyonder created only a universe.
Beyonder Created "only" an INFINITE UNIVERSE
"Meeting NO resistance in the INFINITE BEYOND.
"Within the New Universe, BEGAT (brought into existence) by Beyonder's Power"
"Mortal Beings giving meaning to the INFINITY in which they dwell"
Originally posted by lft4ded
Adam obliterated Death (along with the other concepts) in one universe,
Beyonder obliterated it in the multiverse. One a multi-versal feat vs a universal feat. Because Adam only obliterated a universal concept you say that his feat is less. Because Beyonder performed creation on a universal scale you say his feat is greater.In the cosmic scale size has no true bearing so which one is it?
This is TOTAL gibberish,
I corrected you about this before, now your posting the same nonsense.
The break down:
Originally posted by lft4ded
Adam obliterated Death (along with the other concepts) in one universe,
Adam NEVER DID ANYTHING to DEATH!!!
DEATH WAS NOT THERE!!!
hmm...Eternity the Living Tribunal and this bunch of NON Multiversals.
Not even Universal Death is there.
Originally posted by lft4ded
Because Adam only obliterated a universal concept you say that his feat is less. Because Beyonder performed creation on a universal scale you say his feat is greater.
Your logic would make sense if You READ the COMIC!!!
ADAM NEVER DID ANYTHING to DEATH!!!!
Beyonder CREATED an INFINITE UNIVERSE!!!
Originally posted by lft4ded
Are we talking about the dates the characters were created? The TOAA was created as having always been LT's boss, so technically he was always around, just never mentioned. Perhaps because he was beyond the Beyonder.
Way ta go on the pure speculation.
"Beyond the Beyonder?"
TOAA creates a FINITE Multi-verse,
Beyonder creates an INFINITE UNIVERSE,
you do the math.
Originally posted by lft4ded
Free will? Perhaps because he knew how it would turn out? People die in accidents every day from forces as small as gravity and a 3 story drop. TOAA could prevent these things too. Just because he did nothing doesn't actually prove anything. He wants to see his creations grow and learn...and guess what the Beyonder did?
This is ALL Speculation and has absolutely NO PROOF to back it up, complete irrelevance.
Originally posted by lft4ded
Not if you're omni-present, ie TOAA. Adam destroy*ed* Marvel (616) as we know it (when he obliterated the abstracts present). LT snapped his fingers.
This means nothing.
Originally posted by lft4ded
Post-retcon IIRC. Eternity said he allowed the Beyonders to conduct their experiment.
More nonsense,
the Living Tribunal is the one that ALLOWS ANYTHING
Nice try.
Originally posted by lft4ded
TOAA created all in existence and is omnipresent. Perhaps he had a spicy ham sandwich - burped - and hey, here comes the Beyonder.
Comedic Gibberish.
Originally posted by lft4ded
But he was so sure he was the power Supreme. He supposedly could've snapped his fingers if he was truly what he claimed. He obviously didn't truly destroy the concept or else the less powerful Molecule Man wouldn't have been aware the rose could've died.
That's funny, according to the Comic, Molecule Man clearly said, "ALL the Power in the MULTI-VERSE Together CAN'T KILL Something"
How many more times are you going to post FALSE information?
And uhmm... DEATH was ERASED Across the MULTI-VERSE, even if you think,
"He obviously didn't truly destroy the concept"
In MARVEL's eyes, he OBVIOUSLY DID Destroy the Concept.
continues in the next post...
Originally posted by lft4ded
FWIW The Beyonder's universe is 22 Quintillion times the size of ours. If ours isn't inifinite then thanks to that precise measurement neither is his.
That measurement was provided by me.
The SIZE of the Beyonder's Universe was given in a Comparison between his Reality and Ours.
A UNIVERSE to which OUR OWN is as a DROPLET of Water to the Ocean
"OUR OWN" refers to the MULTI-VERSE.
There are roughly 22 Quintillion drops of Water in the Ocean, according to the Mathematical Biosciences Intitute in 2005 and the Scripps Institution of Oceanography.
This was before I discovered yesterday, that it was actually INFINITE..
Originally posted by lft4ded
But the universe the Presence created is stated to be infinite so this really get us nowhere.
SO is the Beyonder's UNIVERSE...INFINITE.
Originally posted by lft4ded
The Beyonder isn't omniscient. We only have his words to believe here.
More fallacy being pumped into the thread,
Many, many said Beyonder was Omniscient, including the Writers,
While Beyonder is half a Universe away in the Celestial World Complex,
Timebomb, calls out to the Beyonder and:
I still put TOAA and the Presence above him in Omniscience though.
Originally posted by lft4ded
Either the Beyonder is the Supreme power and defeats the Presence or the Presence is infallible and Beyonder gets retconned.
Beyonder was the Supreme Power in Marvel NOT DC.
The Presence is the Supreme power in DC NOT Marvel.
Stalemate.
Originally posted by JuntaiIts really weird. Sometimes both vertigo and DC are connected but then they are disputed by continuity issues. I do have a captain marvel book that mentions the silver city, lillith, the lilim, and the endless.
That's because in DC comics, God is not a character, he is all consuming. That's what I've been saying this whole time.
Originally posted by galan7777777
that was the beyonder (who is nowhere near omniscent) refering to himself when he was saying no one could destroy him......... unless he was omniscent then how could he know if god could destroy him?
"beyonder (who is nowhere near omniscent)"?
That's an exaggeration galan.
Beyonder was Omniscient, just not in the absolute sense of the word.
Like TOAA or the Presence.
But to say, "nowhere near omniscent" is NOT accurate.
Captain Marvel is Universally Omniscient.
