Pre Ret Con Beyonder Vs. THe Presence

Originally posted by galan7777777
The Beyonder with actual omniscience would NEVER have made a mistake.

If Presence made no mistakes, there would never have been a Parallax.

If the TOAA made no mistakes, there would never had been the Chaos Wave, which possibly could of erased even HIS Domain.

If the breach is not sealed, "the Chaos Wave will continue to expand, perhaps to the ASCENTION itself"

Originally posted by galan7777777
Dr. Doom never would have been able to defeat him in the first Secret Wars series(yes I know that the Beyonder sent him back in the first place, but Doom still managed to get the jump on him),

A moment of PIS, to add to the drama.

Originally posted by galan7777777
he never would have destroyed Death,

This doesn't mean anything.

Beyonder made sure the MULTI-VERSE would survive without Death,
but Beyonder didn't realize Life would be meaningless without Death.

You can't expect Beyonder to know this, when he is Immortal in the absolute sense.

Originally posted by galan7777777
and he never would have felt the need to experience desire in the first place(he would already understand it better than anyone).

Wolvy will answer this one.

Originally posted by galan7777777
if he were truly omniscent as god himself is he never would have destroyed Death (he didnt know nothing could die if he did this),

Who said "he didn't know nothing could die if he did this?"

The whole purpose to Erase Death, was so that NOTHING would DIE again.

What he didn't realize is that LIFE, would be meaningless without Death.

Originally posted by galan7777777
yes but he didnt know nothing would be able to die BEFORE he erased death, hence he was not truly omniscent, thank you that just proved my point.......

You repeated this 4 times, I hope you understand that Beyonder DID KNOW nothing would DIE, if he erased Death.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Your missing what I"m saying. You said that HIm talking about himself was not proof of his power becuz people can hyperbole themselves. So What i'm saying is, the beyonder could have been playing himself. He could have thought he was God only becuz he hadn't met anyone who could beat him. IN actuality, He never EVER met TOAA.

Same ol nonsense.

GO READ COMICS!!!

Originally posted by Juntai
You're confusing Vertigo and DC comics again.

You yourself have said that Yahweh is the "sentient manifestation" of the Presence. Vertigo and DC co exist in the same plane, just two different companies.

If Yahweh is in fact the Presence, than the point applies...he is fallible and limitted.

The only thing that limits Classic Beyonder is the fact that he has more power than he knows what to do with.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Same ol nonsense.

GO READ COMICS!!!

screw you dik. no matter fact F U. if you don't like what I said, then don't respond, or disprove what I said. Prove to me that he met TOAA and that he defeated him. If he didn't. then let my statement stand. I dont' go around talkin against your many incursion of BS!! How you twist wording and scans to suit your argument while your fangirls scream in a corner cuz you can put up pretty pics. DIK.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
screw you dik. no matter fact F U. if you don't like what I said, then don't respond, or disprove what I said. Prove to me that he met TOAA and that he defeated him. If he didn't. then let my statement stand. I dont' go around talkin against your many incursion of BS!! How you twist wording and scans to suit your argument while your fangirls scream in a corner cuz you can put up pretty pics. DIK.

Originally posted by bigbran
The Presence beating the hell out of Micheal,(or eating the hell out of him) and then showing Spectre could do nothing to him?

Bran, this means nothing when comparing Beyonder and the Presence.

Spectre and Michael are a joke to the Beyonder, like they are to the Presence.

Originally posted by bigbran
Keep in mind this happened on panel, unlike Beyonder talking about himself.

Beyonder has feats too, NOT just talk.

InFACT, The Presence's greatest FEAT, is creating the DCU, which is INFINITE.

Beyonder did the SAME thing.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
You yourself have said that Yahweh is the "sentient manifestation" of the Presence. Vertigo and DC co exist in the same plane, just two different companies.

If Yahweh is in fact the Presence, than the point applies...he is fallible and limitted.

The only thing that limits Classic Beyonder is the fact that he has more power than he knows what to do with.

Originally posted by Mr Master
If Presence made no mistakes, there would never have been a Parallax.

If the TOAA made no mistakes, there would never had been the Chaos Wave, which possibly could of erased even HIS Domain.

Originally posted by Juntai
Yahweh is The Presence in Vertigo.
Vertigo is not DC comics, and certainly not DC continuity.
In vertigo, Hell does not exist. It was ended in Lucifer.
In DC, it does.
That's just one inconsistancy of many.

This all goes to the fact that The DCU is still a multiverse, and that The presence has differnt rules for each of his universes. Look at the 5th dimension. It's nothing like the other universes. Neither is the 4th world.

The difference in the Presence and the Beyonder can be summed up quite nicely. The Beyonder can't sustain Multiple Universes with his attention divided. The presence can. When the beyonder left his wrealm, that universe ceased to exist. The Presence barely makes an appearance or even turns his attention on anything, and yet all of his stuff remains in tact. Every Universe remains. Every everything. His creations are so powerful, that even they can make universes. I dont' remember the beyonder creating any more beings who made universes of thier own. Maybe i'm wrong tho.

Originally posted by Juntai
In the end, all of that simply falls under the ideal that none can comprehend The Presence. Even Spectre doesn't often get involved in these situations believing more often than not they will take care of themselves. Especially when Corrigan was Spectre- which is the largest portion of comic history. "If God decides that everything dies today, who I am to question it?"

and who is to say ANYTHING is a 'mistake'? if toaa or presence IS omnipotent (and hence, omniscient) they will have:

a) been able to stop whatever 'threat' was occuring had they so wished
b) known it would be stopped sans their interference so there would have been no NEED to act

these types of suppositions are ONLY useable when discussing toaa or presence because no other character has ever proven to be truly omnipotent. we can infer (because no proof exists that THEY are omnipotent either) that these suppositions are plausible in their cases based upon who they are and what they represent.

Originally posted by leonidas
and who is to say ANYTHING is a 'mistake'? if toaa or presence IS omnipotent (and hence, omniscient) they will have:

a) been able to stop whatever 'threat' was occuring had they so wished
b) known it would be stopped sans their interference so there would have been no NEED to act

these types of suppositions are ONLY useable when discussing toaa or presence because no other character has ever proven to be truly omnipotent. we can infer (because no proof exists that THEY are omnipotent either) that these suppositions are plausible in their cases based upon who they are and what they represent.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
screw you dik. no matter fact F U. if you don't like what I said, then don't respond, or disprove what I said. Prove to me that he met TOAA and that he defeated him. If he didn't. then let my statement stand. I dont' go around talkin against your many incursion of BS!! How you twist wording and scans to suit your argument while your fangirls scream in a corner cuz you can put up pretty pics. DIK.

Your posts are meaningless, so they receives meaningless replies.

If your going to reply to MY post, it better have significance, UNLIKE this horse shit below:

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
So What i'm saying is, the beyonder could have been playing himself. He could have thought he was God only becuz he hadn't met anyone who could beat him. IN actuality, He never EVER met TOAA.

How do you expect anything less than harsh criticism.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Your posts are meaningless, so they receives meaningless replies.

If your going to reply to MY post, it better have significance, UNLIKE this horse shit below:

How do you expect anything less than harsh criticism.

It's still valid. Just becuz your the tuffest bully on the block, doesn't mean there isn't a tuffer bully on the next block. That is all I was trying to say. He never even faced TOAA. So how can he be considered the to be More powerful than him? He certainly hadn't created the MU. Even if he was more powerful than it. There was someone out there who made the MU. And since the MU ended up still being there, it would seem that TOAA had it all in control in the first place. And I almost never reply to your post, I almost always reply after you start with me. I dont' like you, so I don't respond to you unless you come for me.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
The difference in the Presence and the Beyonder can be summed up quite nicely. The Beyonder can't sustain Multiple Universes with his attention divided. The presence can.

Gibberish.

Where do you get these ideas from?

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
When the beyonder left his wrealm, that universe ceased to exist.

You just love having your foot in your.

How the heck are Beyonder and Molecule man hanging out in a place that does NOT exist.

It's EMPTY, but it DOES EXIST.

GO READ COMICS.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
The Presence barely makes an appearance or even turns his attention on anything, and yet all of his stuff remains in tact. Every Universe remains. Every everything.

WHEN has this happened?

WHAT the HELL are you talking about?

Your losing credibility by the minute.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
His creations are so powerful, that even they can make universes. I dont' remember the beyonder creating any more beings who made universes of thier own.

Beyonder makes Dazzler a few Million times more powerful than the Multi-verse

Beyonder Gives Rachel Summers the FULL Power of the Pheonix Force

"the Primal Absolutes..DESTRUCTION & CREATION...are HERS to Command"

"She has become ALL she EVER dreamed of...and FAR, FAR more.

You do know what the Phoenix Force's responsibility/purpose is?

To set off the Big Bang of every Universe, when the time comes.

Big Bangs CREATE UNIVERSES..

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Maybe i'm wrong tho.

ALWAYS

Originally posted by Mr Master
Gibberish.

Where do you get these ideas from?

You just love having your foot in your.

How the heck are Beyonder and Molecule man hanging out in a place that does NOT exist.

It's EMPTY, but it DOES EXIST.

GO READ COMICS.

WHEN has this happened?

WHAT the HELL are you talking about?

Your losing credibility by the minute.

Beyonder makes Dazzler a few Million times more powerful than the Multi-verse

Beyonder Gives Rachel Summers the FULL Power of the Pheonix Force

"the Primal Absolutes..DESTRUCTION & CREATION...are HERS to Command"

"She has become ALL she EVER dreamed of...and FAR, FAR more.

You do know what the Phoenix Force's responsibility/purpose is?

To set off the Big Bang of every Universe, when the time comes.

Big Bangs CREATE UNIVERSES..

ALWAYS

One at a time. When did any of the beyonder's creations actually create a universe themselves? which is what I said right? when? Let's get that one out of the way first. cuz your scans didn't show any of them creating a universe.

2ndly, They beyonder says on panel that without him, this place doesn't even exist. So I was wrong in what I said? That he can't sustain Multiple universes with his attention diverted? He said right on panel that without him it's not even a place. So where did you get that it does exist? There was nothing there. No universe was sustained. See there you go twisting words and meaning to suit your own argument. With those pretty pictures again.

3rdly, How can he give her half of his power if he was infinite in power? You can't divide Infinity. What gives? HE made dazzler God with him? How can you have TWO supreme beings? Could she have taken his power from him and thus became the supreme being?