Originally posted by Mr Masteragain i had to repeat this because Thanos THOTU was arguing that the beyonder was omniscent, sometimes you have to repeat things numerous times before people finally get it....... you above all should know that lol!
You repeated this 4 times, I hope you understand that Beyonder DID KNOW nothing would DIE, if he erased Death.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
screw you dik. no matter fact F U. if you don't like what I said, then don't respond, or disprove what I said. Prove to me that he met TOAA and that he defeated him. If he didn't. then let my statement stand. I dont' go around talkin against your many incursion of BS!! How you twist wording and scans to suit your argument while your fangirls scream in a corner cuz you can put up pretty pics. DIK.
I hope whatever sparked this has already been dealt with, cause I'd rather not waste my time with a warning.
Originally posted by Mr Master
If Presence made no mistakes, there would never have been a Parallax.If the TOAA made no mistakes, there would never had been the Chaos Wave, which possibly could of erased even HIS Domain.
If the breach is not sealed, "the Chaos Wave will continue to expand, perhaps to the ASCENTION itself"
The Presence didn't make a mistake. His creation defended itself. He wasn't required to step 'onstage' to fix anything. "Perhaps" she says...
Originally posted by Mr Master
Beyonder made sure the MULTI-VERSE would survive without Death,
but Beyonder didn't realize Life would be meaningless without Death.You can't expect Beyonder to know this, when he is Immortal in the absolute sense.
This goes to the fact that he's not omniscient.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Show us WHO ELSE has ERASED the MULTIVERSAL CONCEPT of DEATH?Enlighten us.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
If he had erased the concept of death, then no one would have even remembered her.
This is actually my point. The concept/idea of death still existed. We don't know that LT couldn't have killed something because he didn't feel moved to try. Someone else has gone to point out however on pg. 2? that Beyonder only made it nearly impossible to kill anything. LT didn't feel the need to make a move. Adam destroyed multiple concepts also, I was mistaken about Death being present, and what is death without life to sustain it? By destroying Eternity what is left for Death. Adam just took the shortcut.
Originally posted by Mr Master
TOAA creates a FINITE Multi-verse,Beyonder creates an INFINITE UNIVERSE,
you do the math.
When has it been referred to as finite?
Originally posted by Mr Master
More nonsense,the Living Tribunal is the one that ALLOWS ANYTHING
Nice try.
"allowed to exist in the realm of existance"?
Where did you read that?
***
I wasn't trying to be clever. I was honestly trying to answer your question. I thought that this statement was talking about the Beyonder Post-Retcon, which would've taken it out this argument as this is concerning 'Pre-Retcon'. I did mistake LT for Eternity but none-the-less it would've been Post.
Originally posted by Mr Master
That's funny, according to the Comic, Molecule Man clearly said, "ALL the Power in the MULTI-VERSE Together CAN'T KILL Something"
Yeah, because Molecule Man knows what LT can and can't do. We still have no proof Beyonder is more powerful than LT. Everyone was saying that Baby Beyonder's death would wipe out the multiverse, but there was at least one power that proved equal to the task of preventing that.
Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
That sums it up.
There is/was no force more poweful than him.Omnisient isnt a factor when it comes to omnipotence in battle.
Because either way they will keep on fighting each other for "omni-time".
You cannot kill a truley omnipotent being...
While the Beyonder is pontificating or working out plans and details (re:bringing back Death) the Presence knows how *everything* works and snaps his fingers. Battle's done.
The Anti-Monitor whittled the inifinite multiverse down to 10. He arguably has a better feat than the Beyonder who only threatened to destroy the multiverse. All said of course by characters who have proven fallible in the past.
Adam Warlock/IG & Thanos/HOTI were both declared God (though isn't all text capitalized) but only one could take down LT. Thanos/HOTI has a better feat than Beyonder, in that we see the LT take the same stance against Beyonder as he did Adam/IG. He essentially just yawned.
***
quote: (post)
Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
And if:
What did the "father in heaven" do to prevent this?
Nothing, Beyonder took them all out when "father in heaven" didn't do a squat.
Free will? Perhaps because he knew how it would turn out? People die in accidents every day from forces as small as gravity and a 3 story drop. TOAA could prevent these things too. Just because he did nothing doesn't actually prove anything. He wants to see his creations grow and learn...and guess what the Beyonder did?
Originally posted by Mr Master
This is ALL Speculation and has absolutely NO PROOF to back it up, complete irrelevance.
This is where it was relevant. Someone mentioned that TOAA or God didn't exist when Beyonder did, someone else mentioned that Rahne (?) prayed to him. Then someone mentioned that he did nothing when Beyonder 'took them all out'. This is what my comment was referring to. Note the location of the '?' in my reply. Sure the statements may be speculation but I think we can assume that people do die from 3 story falls (okay maybe not everyday) and that TOAA can bend laws of space/time to its will to prevent that. He allows the little things as well as the big things to unfold as they will.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Beyonder was the Supreme Power in Marvel NOT DC.The Presence is the Supreme power in DC NOT Marvel.
Stalemate.
I thought these battle take place in an almalgamated universe. But Beyonder, by lack of total complete omniscience in Marvel, has proven not to be Supreme.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Many, many said Beyonder was Omniscient, including the Writers,
And yet on page, he's proved not to be so.
Originally posted by Mr Master
The Beyonder and the Presence CREATED each an INFINITE UNIVERSETOAA CREATED an INFINITE OMNI-VERSE
Actually the Presence created an infinite multiverse, its just that Anti-Monitor had the power to whittle it down to 10. How do you go from 'infinite' to '10' you ask? I couldn't tell you but we have on panel proof that it was done. Now DC has an infinite universe with infinite hypertimes.
...and a lot of what Juntai said too...
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
The difference in the Presence and the Beyonder can be summed up quite nicely. The Beyonder can't sustain Multiple Universes with his attention divided. The presence can. [B]When the beyonder left his wrealm, that universe ceased to exist. The Presence barely makes an appearance or even turns his attention on anything, and yet all of his stuff remains in tact. Every Universe remains. Every everything. His creations are so powerful, that even they can make universes. I dont' remember the beyonder creating any more beings who made universes of thier own. Maybe i'm wrong tho. [/B]
Originally posted by Mr Master
How the heck are Beyonder and Molecule man hanging out in a place that does NOT exist.
"Without me, this place is nothing! Hmp! Without Me, it's not even really a place!"
No, according to Beyonder, the place is 'nothing'. Not 'empty', but 'nothing'. By the time, he said this he was back there of course so it could be something. Now its empty except for him, his friend, and the couch.
Sorry for the DP.
Originally posted by Mr MasterI still don't see how that's much if anything different than what Hal was mentioning in the piece I posted, and he didn't even have the full scope of The Presence, and couldn't even begin to fathom how encompassing the Presence actually is. And he had already spread himself across limitless worlds, realities, universes, which we know are infinitely expanding...and the planes of existance- just by tapping into a -piece- of The Presence's power.
I hear that,but TOAA created an INFINITE Multi-verse
And there's an INFINITE Number of those INFINITE Multi-verses within the Cosmic Vortex
In fact, even Yahweh of Vertigo comics created exactly whats presented in those scans, which is easily indentifiable in the final issue, when Lucifer exits "The Plan" and views the rise and fall of an inifinite number of "creations".
Originally posted by lft4ded
The concept/idea of death still existed.
Dude, READ COMICS!!!
Death is ERASED across The Entire Multiverse
Originally posted by lft4ded
We don't know that LT couldn't have killed something because he didn't feel moved to try.
No...YOU don't even know, the rest of us that actually READ the Comic know better.
The Living Tribunal's JOB is to Protect the Multi-verse from INBALANCE!!!
Originally posted by lft4ded
Someone else has gone to point out however on pg. 2? that Beyonder only made it nearly impossible to kill anything. LT didn't feel the need to make a move.
READ COMICS...
and STOP debating on the strength of what "SOMEONE ELSE" Points Out.
Originally posted by lft4ded
Adam destroyed multiple concepts also, I was mistaken about Death being present, and what is death without life to sustain it? By destroying Eternity what is left for Death. Adam just took the shortcut.
READ COMICS....Death was NOT TOUCHED in any way.
Adam took NO shortcuts, WHAT the HELL are you talking about.
There wasn't even ONE MULTIVERSAL Abstract there
hmm...Eternity the Living Tribunal and this bunch of NON Multiversals.
Thanos Absorbed the 616 MULTI-VERSE, and STILL could NOT ERASE Death
Originally posted by lft4ded
When has it been referred to as finite?
The second Beyonder was able to ERASE it.
That's the WRITER talking, NOT the Beyonder.
Originally posted by lft4ded
Everyone was saying that Baby Beyonder's death would wipe out the multiverse, but there was at least one power that proved equal to the task of preventing that.
So much for equality.
Originally posted by lft4ded
While the Beyonder is pontificating or working out plans and details (re:bringing back Death) the Presence knows how *everything* works and snaps his fingers.
No one ever compared the Presence's Omniscience to the Beyonder's.
Thanx for the "wisdom" though.
Originally posted by lft4ded
The Anti-Monitor whittled the inifinite multiverse down to 10.
"whittled the inifinite multiverse down to 10"
That statement is an Oxymoron.
Originally posted by lft4ded
Anti-Monitor He arguably has a better feat than the Beyonder who only threatened to destroy the multiverse.
Like there was anything else? 😆
Originally posted by lft4ded
Adam Warlock/IG & Thanos/HOTI were both declared God (though isn't all text capitalized) but only one could take down LT. Thanos/HOTI has a better feat than Beyonder, in that we see the LT take the same stance against Beyonder as he did Adam/IG. He essentially just yawned.
And now the gibberish begins.
Originally posted by lft4ded
TOAA could prevent these things too. Just because he did nothing doesn't actually prove anything. He wants to see his creations grow and learn...and guess what the Beyonder did?
More speculative gibberish.
Originally posted by lft4ded
Actually the Presence created an infinite multiverse, its just that Anti-Monitor had the power to whittle it down to 10. How do you go from 'infinite' to '10' you ask?
Have a nice day figuring that one out.
By definition, if it can be "whittle it down to 10"...it is NOT Infinite.
Originally posted by lft4ded
Now DC has an infinite universe with infinite hypertimes.
Now DC has NO Hypertime of any kind:
In fact, promotional talks at the 2005 San Diego Comic-Con (July 2005), DC Executive Editor Dan Didio EFFECTIVELY disavowed the concept of hypertime,
Stating it would NO LONGER BE USED in Future DCU titles.
Originally posted by lft4dedjust out of curiousity can u point out one time in THOTU saga where thanos was EVER specifically refered to as God? because i have read it through and through and i cant find that part 😄 and as for having a better feat then the beyonder, when exactly did thanos HOTU kill death? im just wondering because death (while not as powerful as LT) is certainly much harder to kill...
Adam Warlock/IG & Thanos/HOTI were both declared God (though isn't all text capitalized) but only one could take down LT. Thanos/HOTI has a better feat than Beyonder, in that we see the LT take the same stance against Beyonder as he did Adam/IG. He essentially just yawned.
Originally posted by lft4ded
"Without me, this place is nothing! Hmp! Without Me, it's not even really a place!"No, according to Beyonder, the place is 'nothing'. Not 'empty', but 'nothing'. By the time, he said this he was back there of course so it could be something. Now its empty except for him, his friend, and the couch.
And as the other person was told,
Emptyness or Nothingness is still a stage of Existence IN MARVEL Comics.
Here is OBLIVION, actively swallowing MULTI-VERSES when the chance arises.
why is there hypertime arguements still? didn't i quash that a while ago?
My.. my head... jesus.. damn you Mark Waid and your gibberish. Even the allpowerful Dan Dido could not stop your cultlike following!
I shall run from this thread, seeing as Mr. Master is doing an excellent job as usual of holding up his end of the arguements. And as batdude13 says, who do you think is winning this fight 😛
