Originally posted by Thanos_THOTUthis is true, and even though the presence/god is more powerful then the beyonder lets just say for a minute that their powers were equal, even if this was true the beyonder was not omniscent (he was actually very far from it) and the presence is........ now in that scenerio who do you think the victor would be, the omniscent one, or the one who was very far from it?
But in "Marvel sense" there seems to be something beyond infinity.
Eternity's level is infinity.
Multi-Eternity's level is higher.
Living Tribunal's level is even higher than that.But I was refering to: The Nullifier could destroy the Multi-verse, and recreate it from nothing.
God (= TOAA) is the avatar of the writer, I mean if you burn the piece of paper with Jack Kirby, you techicaly "kill" a wrtier's avatar.
Beyonder was an avatar of a writer.
(Same would go for him)
So basicly in power: PR Beyonder = GodBeyonder didn't show to create an infinite Multi-verse, true.
But he had reached the end of Omnipotence, he didnt know what desire was, he could do anything. But that didnt mean he did everything.If he wouldent be able to create a Multi-verse he would know what "desire for more power" was. It was also stated that he could do anything.
And to be the most powerful force in the Multi-verse and outside it.
Originally posted by invisiblewoman
but wouldn't the writer and illustrater themselves actually be precense or toaa because if you kill their avatar they can just create another one
That may apply to TOAA, but not to the Presence...the Presence is there existant within the comic book as a "character" or "force" that binds DC/Vertigo together, while supposedly the TOAA is "above" or "beyond" the comic book itself...
Either way, the Presence is a logical and crucial component to DC/Vertigo, while Beyonder is beyond logic, and beyond Marvel's existance...
give me a break people the presance, TOAA, and GEB, and image god all those supposid supreme beings are not supreme, the presance has said that he was created by beings stronger then him, and who cares if TOAA is called TOAA does that mean cause of his name he now has jurisdiction over ALL comic book companies to say that any of these are supreme would be saying oh ok then marvel is stronger then DC or DC is stronger then MU, while in reality there just comic book characters, who where created by a writher, and have nothing to do with true omnipatent or supremacy, because they are just written characters, and even in the comic books a wrighter can just make a being stronger then them no matter how great the so called supreme beings are, such as the beyonder, he was greater then TOAA, because THOTU spent itself by recreating the multiverse yet beyonder when he died expelled the power of the multiverse combined multiplied by a few million times, he came from another universe outside of the MU, so how do you know that in his own universe he wasnt TOAA, the writhers already said he had the power of the writhers less TOAA has more power then his creators.
Originally posted by galan7777777
i have to somewhat disagree with this scan you posted mr master:
http://img297.imageshack.us/my.php?image=b3oz3.jpg
I shine when you disagree.
Originally posted by galan7777777
the scan isnt saying it was an infinate universe, but rather that the explosion which created a universe met no resistance in the "infinate beyond realm"
That in itself, means the Beyonder's Energy continued for an Infinity
(hence, INFINITE UNIVERSE)
Originally posted by galan7777777
and you got this scan from SW II book #9,
Thanx for reminding me,
now I'll remind you, look below....
Originally posted by galan7777777
and right before that scan, there is a scan which says exactly: "the unimaginable energy burst into the endlessness of the beyond in an explosive torrent not unlike the cataclysmic explosion said to have begun our universe..." this implies that the explosion was as great as the one that created out universe, and certainly no greater
Implications versus On Panel Artework, On Panel Lettering and narration from the WRITER himself.
"Within the New Universe, BEGAT (brought into existence) by Beyonder's Power"
"Mortal Beings giving meaning to the INFINITY in which they dwell"
It's all good, I still love you... 😎
Originally posted by Mr Master
I shine when you disagree.That in itself, means the Beyonder's Energy continued for an Infinity
(hence, INFINITE UNIVERSE)
Thanx for reminding me,
now I'll remind you, look below....
Implications versus On Panel Artework, On Panel Lettering and narration from the WRITER himself.
"Within the New Universe, BEGAT (brought into existence) by Beyonder's Power"
"Mortal Beings giving meaning to the INFINITY in which they dwell"
It's all good, I still love you... 😎
Originally posted by galan7777777
even if this was true the beyonder was not omniscent (he was actually very far from it) and the presence is........ now in that scenerio who do you think the victor would be, the omniscent one, or the one who was very far from it?
I wouldn't continue to say the "Beyonder was far from omniscient".... cause that's simply Not true.
The Beyonder infact WAS Omniscient, but I told you before...Not as Omniscient as TOAA or the Presence, because those characters haven't been depicted with flaws (that's the only reason)
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirlwhere does it say that the beyonder created an infinate universe? all it says is that the explosion from the beyonder was much like the one which created our own universe..... just because this explosion happened in his infinate beyond realm dosent mean that the explosion itself was infinate
And infinity that the beyonder had nothing to do with. This was already there as stated on panel, the beyonder's power reached out meeting no resistance in the infinite beyond. The Infinite beyond is where these mortal beings reside. It was already infinity. Not that it states that the beyonder's universe is infinite and sustainable. It's not even there anymore is it?
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
And infinity that the beyonder had nothing to do with. This was already there as stated on panel,
You still need to GO READ COMICS!!!
That's the Beyond Realm silly, it was the Beyonder that WAS THERE Before
"Since the BEYONDER'S DEPARTURE, there has been UTTER NOTHING"
"A few moments ago, SOMETHING HAPPENED"
"A Portal was Opened from OUR UNIVERSE into the Beyond"
"Molecule Man Opened the Portal, SAVING ALL Existence on HIS SIDE"
Beyonder CREATING/BECOMING a UNIVERSE to which OUR OWN is as a DROPLET of Water to the Ocean
"Masses form in the Void, Stars, Suns, and Planets...LIFE Arises"
"Meeting NO resistance in the INFINITE BEYOND.
Evolves and Flourishes, within the NEW UNIVERSE begat (brought into existence) by the Beyonder's Power"
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
the beyonder's power reached out meeting no resistance in the infinite beyond. The Infinite beyond is where these mortal beings reside. It was already infinity. Not that it states that the beyonder's universe is infinite and sustainable. It's not even there anymore is it?
What's the your point in even posting something if your going to bring up the RETCON?
That PROVES your nothing but a hater since day one.
PRE RET CON BEYONDER vs. The PRESENCE....You don't like it, don't post.
Originally posted by galan7777777
where does it say that the beyonder created an infinate universe? all it says is that the explosion from the beyonder was much like the one which created our own universe..... just because this explosion happened in his infinate beyond realm dosent mean that the explosion itself was infinate
I'll reply to on this matter once more.
"Within the New Universe, BEGAT (brought into existence) by Beyonder's Power"
Mortal Beings giving meaning to the INFINITY in WHICH THEY DWELL
WHERE are the Mortals DWELLING?
INFINITYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY>>>>>>>
Originally posted by Mr MasterInfinate in this sense is refering to the infinate beyond realm in which they are now part of, and i know that you are aware of the part of the comic im talking about which is right before the ones you have posted which says exactly this: "the unimaginable energy burst into the endlessness of the beyond in an explosive torrent not unlike the cataclysmic explosion said to have begun our universe..." the universe that was created from his essence was no bigger then ours
I'll reply to on this matter once more."Within the New Universe, BEGAT (brought into existence) by Beyonder's Power"
Mortal Beings giving meaning to the INFINITY in WHICH THEY DWELL
WHERE are the Mortals DWELLING?
INFINITYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY>>>>>>>
Originally posted by galan7777777
Infinate in this sense is refering to the infinate beyond realm in which they are now part of, and i know that you are aware of the part of the comic im talking about which is right before the ones you have posted which says exactly this: "the unimaginable energy burst into the endlessness of the beyond in an explosive torrent not unlike the cataclysmic explosion said to have begun our universe..." the universe that was created from his essence was no bigger then ours
If that' what you want it to mean, who's gonna stop you.
It's simply just another person misinformed even with the comic, many to go around here.
Originally posted by Mr Masterif thats what i want it to mean? this sounds pretty cut and dry, and i havent altered the words in any way:
If that' what you want it to mean, who's gonna stop you.It's simply just another person misinformed even with the comic, many to go around here.
"the unimaginable energy burst into the endlessness of the beyond in an explosive torrent not unlike the cataclysmic explosion said to have begun our universe..."
im not misinformed nor am i trying to argue, but that quote is from SW II book #9, on the same page that you got the other scans from...... all im saying is that his universe wasnt truly infinite (as stated on pannel).....thats all 😕
Originally posted by galan7777777
if thats what i want it to mean? this sounds pretty cut and dry, and i havent altered the words in any way:"the unimaginable energy burst into the endlessness of the beyond in an explosive torrent not unlike the cataclysmic explosion said to have begun our universe..."
im not misinformed nor am i trying to argue, but that quote is from SW II book #9, on the same page that you got the other scans from...... all im saying is that his universe wasnt truly infinite (as stated on pannel).....thats all
Cut and dry nothing duke.
Your hard headed duke.
Just because they're saying "it was LIKE the cataclysmic explosion said to have begun our universe"
DOES NOT MEAN it was the same, their being poetic using a metaphor. (Hope you know what a Metaphor is)
But interestingly enough
your Completely Ignoring what is writtten in PLAIN TEXT, NOT METAPHORS
"Meeting NO resistance in the INFINITE BEYOND "
But Even MORE CLEARLY:
"Within the New Universe, BEGAT (brought into existence) by Beyonder's Power"
"Mortal Beings giving meaning to the INFINITY in which they dwell "
Originally posted by Mr Master
Cut and dry nothing duke.Your hard headed duke.
Just because they're saying "it was LIKE the cataclysmic explosion said to have begun our universe"
DOES NOT MEAN it was the same, their being poetic using a metaphor. (Hope you know what a Metaphor is)
But interestingly enough
your Completely Ignoring what is writtten in PLAIN TEXT, NOT METAPHORS
"Meeting NO resistance in the INFINITE BEYOND "
But Even MORE CLEARLY:
"Within the New Universe, BEGAT (brought into existence) by Beyonder's Power"
"Mortal Beings giving meaning to the INFINITY in which they dwell "
Scan 1- yes the explosion met not resistance in the "infinite beyond" but does that mean that the explosion itself was infinite? i think not.....
Scan 2- "Infinity in which they dwell" dosent necessarily mean that the universe itself was infinite, but rather the realm in which they existed in was infinite......
Again show me on pannel where it says that the universe that the beyonder created was "infinite"
Originally posted by Mider999
give me a break people the presance, TOAA, and GEB, and image god all those supposid supreme beings are not supreme, the presance has said that he was created by beings stronger then him, and who cares if TOAA is called TOAA does that mean cause of his name he now has jurisdiction over ALL comic book companies to say that any of these are supreme would be saying oh ok then marvel is stronger then DC or DC is stronger then MU, while in reality there just comic book characters, who where created by a writher, and have nothing to do with true omnipatent or supremacy, because they are just written characters, and even in the comic books a wrighter can just make a being stronger then them no matter how great the so called supreme beings are, such as the beyonder, he was greater then TOAA, because THOTU spent itself by recreating the multiverse yet beyonder when he died expelled the power of the multiverse combined multiplied by a few million times, he came from another universe outside of the MU, so how do you know that in his own universe he wasnt TOAA, the writhers already said he had the power of the writhers less TOAA has more power then his creators.
Yes, Yahweh AS the Presence has admitted that he is shaped by forces external to himself...
Originally posted by galan7777777
Scan 1- yes the explosion met not resistance in the "infinite beyond" but does that mean that the explosion itself was infinite? i think not.....
I Know so.
Originally posted by galan7777777
Scan 2- "Infinity in which they dwell" dosent necessarily mean that the universe itself was infinite, but rather the realm in which they existed in was infinite......
This is GIBBERISH.
"Within the NEW UNIVERSE, BEGAT (BROUGHT INTO EXISTENCE) BY Beyonder's Power"
"Mortal Beings giving meaning to the INFINITY in which they dwell "
WHAT WAS BROUGHT INTO EXISTENCE?
A NEW UNIVERSE
BY WHOM or WHAT?
The Beyonder's POWER
And HOW BIG was the UNIVERSE BEGAT BY Beyonder's POWER?
An INFINITY inwhich to Dwell
Originally posted by galan7777777
Again show me on pannel where it says that the universe that the beyonder created was "infinite"
I did, THREE times my child.
Stick to Lucifer.
Originally posted by Mider999
give me a break people the presance, TOAA, and GEB, and image god all those supposid supreme beings are not supreme, the presance has said that he was created by beings stronger then him, and who cares if TOAA is called TOAA does that mean cause of his name he now has jurisdiction over ALL comic book companies to say that any of these are supreme would be saying oh ok then marvel is stronger then DC or DC is stronger then MU, while in reality there just comic book characters, who where created by a writher, and have nothing to do with true omnipatent or supremacy, because they are just written characters, and even in the comic books a wrighter can just make a being stronger then them no matter how great the so called supreme beings are, such as the beyonder, he was greater then TOAA, because THOTU spent itself by recreating the multiverse yet beyonder when he died expelled the power of the multiverse combined multiplied by a few million times, he came from another universe outside of the MU, so how do you know that in his own universe he wasnt TOAA, the writhers already said he had the power of the writhers less TOAA has more power then his creators.
Originally posted by Mr MasterAgain even though things that have been stated on pannel would contradict what you have provided lets look at it: You believe "Infinity in which they dwell" refers to an "infinite" universe of some sort, but all that was stated on pannel is that the beyond realm was infinite, and where do the creatures in this new universe dwell??? The beyond realm!"Mortal Beings giving meaning to the INFINITY in which they dwell "
WHAT WAS BROUGHT INTO EXISTENCE?
A NEW UNIVERSE
BY WHOM or WHAT?
The Beyonder's POWER
And HOW BIG was the UNIVERSE BEGAT BY Beyonder's POWER?
An INFINITY inwhich to Dwell
Originally posted by Mr Masteryou have yet to provide scans where this "Infinite Universe" was shown, or even talked about on pannel, and "infinity in which they dwell" isnt sufficient enough to say that the beyonder created an infinite universe, but rather that he created a universe within an infinite realm......... again im not trying to argue, but it dosent make much sense to me...
I did, THREE times my child.
Originally posted by Mr Master😉
Stick to Lucifer.
Originally posted by galan7777777
Again even though things that have been stated on pannel would contradict what you have provided lets look at it:
Who do you think you are child?
You acquire the Secret Wars series a couple of days ago
and now you think you know something. 😆
YOU'VE been CONTRADICTED Big Time,
but your intransigence doesn't allow you to see that,
your too bent on proving me wrong,
and your going in circles for it.
Originally posted by galan7777777
You believe "Infinity in which they dwell" refers to an "infinite" universe of some sort, but all that was stated on pannel is that the beyond realm was infinite, and where do the creatures in this new universe dwell??? The beyond realm!
AND WHAT do you think the Beyond Realm was BEFORE Beyonder came to our Universe?
I guess I'll just DISINCORPORATE EXPAND to FILL
Or Actually, to BECOME the OL' BEYOND-REALM AGAIN
Your wasting my time my boy.
Originally posted by galan7777777
you have yet to provide scans where this "Infinite Universe" was shown, or even talked about on pannel,
Here it is AGAIN for the LAST TIME!!!
"Since the Beyonder's departure there has been UTTER NOTHING"
"A few moments ago, SOMETHING HAPPENED"
"A Portal was Opened from OUR UNIVERSE into the Beyond"
"Molecule Man Opened the Portal, SAVING ALL Existence on HIS SIDE"
Beyonder CREATING/BECOMING a UNIVERSE
"Masses form in the Void, Stars, Suns, and Planets...LIFE Arises"
"Meeting NO resistance in the INFINITE BEYOND.
"Within the New Universe, BEGAT (brought into existence) by Beyonder's Power"
"Mortal Beings giving meaning to the INFINITY in which they dwell"
WHAT WAS BROUGHT INTO EXISTENCE?
A NEW UNIVERSE
BY WHOM or WHAT?
The Beyonder's POWER
And HOW BIG was the UNIVERSE BEGAT BY Beyonder's POWER?
An INFINITY inwhich to Dwell
Originally posted by galan7777777
and "infinity in which they dwell" isnt sufficient enough to say that the beyonder created an infinite universe, but rather that he created a universe within an infinite realm.........
An INFINITE REALM that WAS the BEYONDER
He COMES from ANOTHER UNIVERSE
THERE, HE WAS ALL, the SUM TOTAL of EXISTENCE
AGAIN
A Being who HAILS FROM a UNIVERSE WHERE HE WAS ALL
AND ALL WAS HIM
Opened a Pinhole INTO HIS REALM
There's TONS of other instances where BEYONDER is CLEARLY depicted as being ALL in the BEYOND REALM...
Do I really need to post them ALL.
Originally posted by galan7777777
again im not trying to argue, but it dosent make much sense to me...
I can't help you on that one, there's counseling for that though.
