Originally posted by quanchi112
then what happened?
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/gebtrueform.jpg
"...more of a no score draw" AKA stalemate.
Originally posted by Air Legend
🤨The external forces that formed him aka the artists and writers.
First of all I don't appreciate you comparing the Presence to the real GOD. Also, of course GOD knew where they were spiritually, but this completely irrelevant to what we are talking about. The Presence was surprised; it is clear to see by his facial expression and by how he added "then I ate her, too." Again, don't compare the Presence to the real GOD because he is nothing like him.
Yes it was a mistake by the writers. DC did a poor job on the Presence.
So now you're going to start flaming with me?
Yes DC can write a story using Superman destroying Marvel, but that would be the artists and writers doing it, not the Presence.
👆 TOAA=DC writers>Presence
Marvel going out of business? 😆
He wouldn't REMAIN supreme because like I pointed out in the beginning the Presence was never supreme to begin with, the external forces aka the writers and artists are.
I don't know what to say to this because I don't get what you are trying to say.
You know, I see what you are trying to say but Marvel hasn't gone out of business so your point is inconsequential.
I don't like the logic you're using here for a couple of reasons. Technically Marvel feats mean nothing compared to DC feats and vice versa that is why this comic vs forum is hypothetical. If we are to debate- feats, being the writer, bios, etc. have to mean something when comparing the two companies or else this forum wouldn't exist.
Again, the external forces that created him aka the artists and writers are supreme, not the Presence. The Presence is merely a piece of artwork to them.
No TOAA and DC writers can be viewed as equals and DC writers are greater than the Presence.
You made good points on the companies going out of business ,but seeing how they are not out of business, it becomes all inconsequential. 🙂
No, I'm not trying to start a flame war with you. I didn't like your tone in the previous post...so, I used a tone of my on. I have no problem with you...but, I don't want to read a post where I feel like I'm being talked down to. You're lucky I wasn't drinkin' at the time...or it could've been far worse...lol.
Well, I did type a long essay for your response...but, when I went to post a smiley after my essay...it ended up deleting my essay for some damn reason...so, I won't go into all that shit again...lol I'll just keep it brief.
Again, I understand that DC has no equivalent to the TOAA. DC writers are not depicted on panel...unless you count the Presence's comment "Forces external to myself" Well, those forces do not act on panel, so for all intents and purposes...the Presence IS DC's Supreme Being. DC means this to be so...like it or not. I realize that DC does a poor job with this...but, the Presence is MEANT to be Supreme nonetheless. ON PANEL, the Presence's counterpart in Marvel would be the Infinity Being....the Being that was responsible for all of Creation ON PANEL. I know God/TOAA in Marvel drew the scenes....but, the IB is the being credited for this ON PANEL.
Now, concerning the TOAA and the Presence. They can NOT be compared. The TOAA has no power in DC. The TOAA can NOT unwrite a being that is not in Marvel. So, technically, the TOAA would not be above or below...say Batman in DC. The TOAA is NOTHING there. His powers are meaningless. The TOAA could not defeat...or for that matter lose to the Presence. On the other hand...the Presence is an ON PANEL character...and could be gaged against Marvel opponents. You see what I'm saying. The only being that the Presence can be compared to in Marvel is the Infinity Being...not the TOAA.
All in all...The TOAA can not be placed in battles against DC characters...because DC has no equivalent to this concept...ON PANEL. Before anyone brings up Thanos with the HOTI....this is not the same. I realize that Thanos had the TOAA'S power.....but, that means nothing. Thanos is still a Comic Book character only...not a real entity. The real TOAA, the writer, can still write him out of existence...EFFORTLESSLY. With that being said....Thanos can only be perceived as the Supreme Being...ON PANEL....just as the Presence is in DC. Thanos would be no more or no less than the Presence on panel.
Again, as far as this fight goes....the Presence would win it...He would be greater than the Beyonder because Beyonder is not Supreme in Marvel...he would be below the Infinity Being...on PANEL...and below Thanos with the HOTI...on PANEL.
Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.as I understand it, theyre 2 halves of the same being; if Im wrong, then plz explain.also, if U dot like my comparing the desing of this character to God.....welp, I'll still do it, but know that theres no offense intended.
then plz explain
Tazer
Originally posted by KMC_DrifterYes, they have been. Grant Morrison was on panel in Animal Man. Mike Carlin has been on panel. Other staff, writers, and editors have been on panel as well.
Again, I understand that DC has no equivalent to the TOAA. DC writers are not depicted on panel
the "Jack Kirby" TOAA, was merely how they percieved the supreme being. He even mentioned that. It's not neccisarily that writers and artists are the supreme. -- though in a technical sense, they and the editors do depict the universe to us.
Originally posted by kevdude
Well to be fair to DC lets say it like this TOAA/God = Writer/God"The Presence". Also The Source still razes some questions, do a little research on Taoist and I think you'll find it interesting Air 🙂
Well actually the Marvel "God" is suppose to represent the artist so I say TOAA/God=Writers/Artists of DC. 🙂
I think the Source is in a way the spirit of the Presence, isn't it?
Originally posted by Air LegendThey were speaking from their perspective with the 'no score draw', having won the day, but lost a lot in the process.. not of what they just witnessed.. It's clear from the context.
This is what happened:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/gebvspresence2.jpg
You can see the Presence and the GEB merging.http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/gebtrueform.jpg
AKA stalemate. [/B]
[B]"...more of a no score draw"
Originally posted by Juntai
[B]Yes, they have been. Grant Morrison was on panel in Animal Man. Mike Carlin has been on panel. Other staff, writers, and editors have been on panel as well.
Originally posted by Air Legend
http://anyeventuality.files.wordpress.com/2006/10/animalman26page07detail.JPGhttp://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/03-18-2007%2001;59;03PM.JPG
It does imply that Morrison is in control over Animal Man (the author of Animal Man), but nowhere does it imply that Morrison is God/artist(s)&writer(s) of every comic book in DC.
Originally posted by Juntai
the "Jack Kirby" TOAA, was merely how they percieved the supreme being. He even mentioned that.
Originally posted by Juntai
It's not neccisarily that writers and artists are the supreme. -- though in a technical sense, they and the editors do depict the universe to us.
Originally posted by Juntai
They were speaking from their perspective with the 'no score draw', having won the day, but lost a lot in the process.. not of what they just witnessed.. It's clear from the context.
Originally posted by KMC_Drifter
No, I'm not trying to start a flame war with you. I didn't like your tone in the previous post...so, I used a tone of my on. I have no problem with you...but, I don't want to read a post where I feel like I'm being talked down to. You're lucky I wasn't drinkin' at the time...or it could've been far worse...lol.Well, I did type a long essay for your response...but, when I went to post a smiley after my essay...it ended up deleting my essay for some damn reason...so, I won't go into all that shit again...lol I'll just keep it brief.
Again, I understand that DC has no equivalent to the TOAA. DC writers are not depicted on panel...unless you count the Presence's comment "Forces external to myself" Well, those forces do not act on panel, so for all intents and purposes...the Presence IS DC's Supreme Being. DC means this to be so...like it or not. I realize that DC does a poor job with this...but, the Presence is MEANT to be Supreme nonetheless. ON PANEL, the Presence's counterpart in Marvel would be the Infinity Being....the Being that was responsible for all of Creation ON PANEL. I know God/TOAA in Marvel drew the scenes....but, the IB is the being credited for this ON PANEL.
Now, concerning the TOAA and the Presence. They can NOT be compared. The TOAA has no power in DC. The TOAA can NOT unwrite a being that is not in Marvel. So, technically, the TOAA would not be above or below...say Batman in DC. The TOAA is NOTHING there. His powers are meaningless. The TOAA could not defeat...or for that matter lose to the Presence. On the other hand...the Presence is an ON PANEL character...and could be gaged against Marvel opponents. You see what I'm saying. The only being that the Presence can be compared to in Marvel is the Infinity Being...not the TOAA.
All in all...The TOAA can not be placed in battles against DC characters...because DC has no equivalent to this concept...ON PANEL. Before anyone brings up Thanos with the HOTI....this is not the same. I realize that Thanos had the TOAA'S power.....but, that means nothing. Thanos is still a Comic Book character only...not a real entity. The real TOAA, the writer, can still write him out of existence...EFFORTLESSLY. With that being said....Thanos can only be perceived as the Supreme Being...ON PANEL....just as the Presence is in DC. Thanos would be no more or no less than the Presence on panel.
Again, as far as this fight goes....the Presence would win it...He would be greater than the Beyonder because Beyonder is not Supreme in Marvel...he would be below the Infinity Being...on PANEL...and below Thanos with the HOTI...on PANEL.
You make good points. I'm not going to comment them all cuz that takes forever, lol.
On Panel I agree that Infinity Being is comparable to the Presence and that Thanos w/HOTI is no more or no less than the Presence on Panel (hence why I said they would stalemate on the Thanos HOTI vs Presence thread). But why do you think Classic Beyonder is not the same? I think we already agreed that "blinking them from existence" is a matter of whether the omnipotent character wants to do it or not.
Originally posted by Juntai
the "Jack Kirby" TOAA, was merely how they percieved the supreme being. He even mentioned that. It's not neccisarily that writers and artists are the supreme. --
In Marvel,
the Artists and Writers are the God/TOAA
God (the Artist) TOAA "collaborator" (Writer)
That's how they were depicted on panel
Both Bios define them in the same way.
(excerpt from the Fantastic Four Ultimate Guide)
"to meet God ...
FF were amazed to find out that he Sketched Out Reality in the same way a Comic-Book Artist"
..........................................................................................
In the actual FF Bio it certifies there are Two Supreme Beings working together
to create what we read, just like it was depicted on panel in FF#511:
(excerpt from the Official Marvel Handbook)
"The CreatorS allowed it"
..........................................................................................
On Panel:
The Silver Surfer, Balck Panther titles are just stories in a Comic book to them:
Galactus is just a drawing on a piece of paper to God:
Here God creates a Cosmos
with a whole bunch of stuff happening in an instant
by stroking his pencil across paper:
Reed just can't believe it: 😂
Galactus is just a drawing to God that can be crumbled up and thrown in the trash.
Originally posted by Air Legend
You make good points. I'm not going to comment them all cuz that takes forever, lol.On Panel I agree that Infinity Being is comparable to the Presence and that Thanos w/HOTI is no more or no less than the Presence on Panel (hence why I said they would stalemate on the Thanos HOTI vs Presence thread). But why do you think Classic Beyonder is not the same? I think we already agreed that "blinking them from existence" is a matter of whether the omnipotent character wants to do it or not.
Well, the reason that I think that the Presence would win is because the Beyonder had too much trouble with Molecule Man, IMO. I think Thanos with the HOTI could've absorbed MM just as easily as he did the LT. I also believe he could've absorbed the Beyonder with that Power. Thanos had the ON PANEL power of the TOAA...and that power should be greater than even the Beyonder's.
Now, if Presence is more or less that same powerwise with Thanos with the HOTI...it stands to reason in my mind that the Presence would be above the Beyonder
Again, this is just my opinion on the matter. I could be wrong...lol
In all those scans that have TOAA/God its clear as day they are comic book characters, please stop saying they are real world people, they are not lol. God picks up a phone and calls TOAA. That's thats how the FF sees God.
http://img147.imageshack.us/my.php?image=godte6.jpg
http://img91.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gdka7.jpg
"Invited into Heaven proper to meet God, the FF were amazed to find out that he "sketched out" reality in the same way as a comic-book artist."
😮💨
Originally posted by Mr MasterHowever, that is merely how they identified him. He even acknowledges this on panel. Nothing I said is incorrect.
In Marvel,the Artists and Writers are the God/TOAA
God (the Artist) TOAA "collaborator" (Writer)
That's how they were depicted on panel
Both Bios define them in the same way.
(excerpt from the Fantastic Four Ultimate Guide)
"to meet God ...
FF were amazed to find out that he Sketched Out Reality in the same way a Comic-Book Artist"..........................................................................................
In the actual FF Bio it certifies there are Two Supreme Beings working together
to create what we read, just like it was depicted on panel in FF#511:(excerpt from the Official Marvel Handbook)
"The CreatorS allowed it"..........................................................................................
On Panel:
The Silver Surfer, Balck Panther titles are just stories in a Comic book to them:
Galactus is just a drawing on a piece of paper to God:
Here God creates a Cosmos
with a whole bunch of stuff happening in an instant
by stroking his pencil across paper:Reed just can't believe it: 😂
Galactus is just a drawing to God that can be crumbled up and thrown in the trash.
Originally posted by Juntai
However, that is merely how they identified him.
He even acknowledges this on panel.
Actually God was refering to his humanoid appearance,
not his relation to the real world Artists and writers.
Originally posted by Juntai
Nothing I said is incorrect.
Except for this part:
Originally posted by Juntai
It's not neccisarily that writers and artists are the supreme. --
In Marvel, yes, it's necessarily exactly that.
It's absolutely obvious on panel that God/TOAA was depicted this way.
(as the Artists and Writers of Marvel comics)
Then Marvel.com confirms this.
Just like it to be clear concerning Marvel info. 🙂
Originally posted by Mr Masterway to correct him.
Actually God was refering to his humanoid appearance,
not his relation to the real world Artists and writers.Except for this part:
In Marvel, yes, it's necessarily exactly that.
It's absolutely obvious on panel that God/TOAA was depicted this way.
(as the Artists and Writers of Marvel comics)Then Marvel.com confirms this.
Just like it to be clear concerning Marvel info. 🙂
🙂
Originally posted by Mr MasterI disagree, it's all interpretation.
Actually God was refering to his humanoid appearance,
not his relation to the real world Artists and writers.Except for this part:
In Marvel, yes, it's necessarily exactly that.
It's absolutely obvious on panel that God/TOAA was depicted this way.
(as the Artists and Writers of Marvel comics)Then Marvel.com confirms this.
Just like it to be clear concerning Marvel info. 🙂
They compare Gods' role to the likeness of the way an artist works in the bio. On panel, he identifies that it is merely the way they percieve him and thus his workings.
Nothing concrete. And nothing that disagrees with my interpretation more-so than it helps what you're trying to push.
You can support whatever idea you want to role with, but don't force it on anyone as an undisputed truth when it's clearly left up to interpretation with ambiguous references.
Originally posted by Juntai
I disagree, it's all interpretation.They compare Gods' role to the likeness of the way an artist works in the bio. On panel, he identifies that it is merely the way they percieve him and thus his workings.
Nothing concrete. And nothing that disagrees with my interpretation more-so than it helps what you're trying to push.
You can support whatever idea you want to role with, but don't force it on anyone as an undisputed truth when it's clearly left up to interpretation with ambiguous references.
Well if Marvel confirms it, then it pretty much is indisputable.
