Phoenix VS Galactus

Your "answer" on page 8 was responded to on page 10:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=421319&perpage=20&highlight=&pagenumber=10

With that in mind dont try it son.

The difference is that whereas i actually highlighted points within the scans which made your interpretation conclusively wrong and said why, you on the other hand have just dismissed my points as gibberish and ONCE AGAIN JUST posted your opinion. Learn to debate son. ✅

I have already presented my argument and shown how it is fully supported on panel, i therefore have no need to engage you point for point. Been there. Done that. Very successful✅

I now await your attempt to actually counter my points. To show me what statements and depictions tell me im wrong and why!!

Just to clarify my position.

You claim that Jean actually just repaired the future, that she did nothing to the 616 universe ( 🤨 ) If thats the case then can you please explain to me how repairing the future can have effects in the past?

Can you please show me where on the first page any mention of Jean repairing the future is stated and depicted?:

In that scan all we see is Jeans lack of focus necessitating the amputation of the entire Here Comes Tomorrow Future.

This amputated future is TAKEN AWAY from Jean. She is SUBSEQUENTLY directed to the "HOSPITAL" to "HEAL WOUND" and "GROW BETTER FUTURE".

Where was there any healing? We're told that theres a healing to come, where have you got justification for your interpretation? The future is taken off panel and never seen again. Where are the statements and on panel depiction pertaining to Jean performing an action SPECIFICALLY on the future? SHOW ME. WHERE ON PANEL?

Surely she'd have need of this future if it was that that she was indeed repairing?

If she'd done her repairing job then why would she be urged on to the hospital to heal and grow a better future?

Lets carry on shall we?

After being directed to the "HOSPITAL" to HEAL THE WOUND", to "GROW A BETTER FUTURE" (which conclusively tells you no repairing has been done up to this point)

Jean demonstrates her ability to manipulate matter and energy at a scale beyond any universal power by materialzing the 616 universe in the palm of her hand, to be treated within the white hot room.

As established in the title throughout, when Jean gets too close to her power, when she does high level things the Consciousness talks to and guides her in her head (as depicted) and at times takes over possession of Jean performing through her, explaining why Jean is shown and stated to be performing something (control of the universe at an atomic level in her palm) whilst being vaguely aware of her intentions.

(Did i have to fix something?) Jeans premature awakening from the Phoenix Egg as stated and shown left her disoriented and confused in the HCT story arc, which also explains her naivete. All these points were established about Jean/Phoenix in the title. Readers of the title know this. Those who arrogantly try to make an analysis on the Phoenix character within the title based just on a handful of scans 😖hifty: obviously would not 👇

Jean asks what it is she has to fix and she is told. "THE BADLY WOUNDED ORPHAN UNIVERSE"

That basically puts the argument to rest. We're told point blank what the patient is. Jeans directed to the white hot room, to "HEAL A WOUND", to "GROW A BETTER FUTURE" and she materializes this wounded universe within the "hospital"

Having previously been told that she has to fix the universe, that that is "Phoenix Work" Jean gazes at the universe and she asks what thats supposed to mean. The Consciousness then relates to her the things that lead to the HCT future, the future she had to amputate thereby wounding the universe. While looking at the universe Jean hears words from within the 616 timeline. Xaviers comments from New X-men 128 for example ("Are these words from the future"?)

The scene just illustrates the fact that Jean is beyond time and space and therefore able to perceive events from across the continuum.

With the badly wounded universe in her hand she is told that if she wants to grow it a new future, (thereby healing it as we were told this action would do) she has to symbolically "water it with her hearts blood". In other words sever all ties with reality (specifically her relationship with Scott, hence the earlier comments "her heart got stuck"😉 and and urge him to carry on, to make a new life without her. Phoenix applying her power into the 616 universe changes Scotts reaction to Emma.

Just to sum up:

Jean instead of carrying out her "Phoenix work" i.e the disinfection reality as foretold early on in New X-men, got too emotionally involved with her connections in reality. (i.e her relationship with Scott) As the Consciousness said "Heart Got Stuck". This lead to the threat of Sublime running out of control necessitating the amputation of the entire future of the 616 universe.

This wounded reality and Jean was told in order to fix it, in order to heal the wound she would have to "grow it a better future". After having the amputated HCT future taken away from her, Jean was directed to the White Hot Room/Hospital in order to do just that.

In there Jean used her telekinesis to materialize the 616 universe within the "hospital" where she could heal it, in the process demonstrating her vast abilities. The Consciousness then marks out the universe as the something she has to fix, as "Phoenix work"

Staring at the universe and perceiving words/events from along the timeline a tearful Jean asks the Consciousness to explain. It reiterates what lead to the HCT future and it then directs another avatar (Quentin Quire) to tell her what she needs to do to grow this new future for the wounded universe.

He tells her to "water it with her hearts blood". To let go of her connections to reality and urge Cyclops to carry on without her.

Applying her power to reality she does just that, "Live Scott. Live"

When you have countered or conceded over this issue, MrMaster i will gladly address and additional issues you later brought up in this thread.

Thats all.

-GS 🙂

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
I'm just spamming this topic now over my frustration at losing to Mr. Master and my latent homosexuality.

Thats all.

-GS 🙂

Seek help.

Originally posted by Ext@nt
Seek help.

Thats cute. 🙂

Surprised you got that one out with your mouth stuffed to the brim with MrMasters G-Strings. 🙄

When you've got something useful to post other than your love confessions for MrM then please come back and share. 😉

Until then keep any off topic remarks to yourself. This heres a place for grown talk. Understand? 😱

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The difference is that whereas i actually highlighted points within the scans which made your interpretation conclusively wrong and said why, you on the other hand have just dismissed my points as gibberish and ONCE AGAIN JUST posted your opinion. I have already presented my argument and shown how it is fully supported on panel, i therefore have no need to engage you point for point.I now await your attempt to actually counter my points. To show me what statements and depictions tell me im wr

Gibberish.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
You claim that Jean actually just repaired the future, that she did nothing to the 616 universe If thats the case then can you please explain to me how repairing the future can have effects in the past?

Who ever said Jean Repaired the Future to Affect the Past?

Grant Morrison made it very clear HOW Phoenix Replaced the Future,

(by going to the Past and CHANGING Scotts's Mind about Emma)

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Can you please show me where on the first page any mention of Jean repairing the future is stated and depicted?:

Sure mate.

Phoenix asks, "Is this the Future?"

It tells her, "You lost concentration, Shock almost killed it" (the FUTURE)

Did she not just ask, "is this the Future?"

And was she not just responded to with, "You lost concentration, Shock almost killed it?"

NOW:

It continues to say, "Patient will die unless internal heart damage repaired"

The "Patient" is the FUTURE still at this point EVIDENTLY.

Which is why Phoenix says, "But it didn't have to END like that, my Friends didn't deserve that." (some even died),

DIDN'T DESERVE WHAT?

THIS....(the FUTURE THAT IS NOW) The events of Here Comes Tomorrow like Grant Morrison said.

WHEN Phoenix Amputated the Future it was only to DISINFECT the Future

Here Phoenix says, "Some KIND of Bacteria Colony gone rogue...I had to Amputate the whole Future"

Jean is told, "Phoenix DISINFECTION Successful"

We know that by Phoenix cutting off the Future, the Infection, which was Sublime, was destroyed,

but the EVENTS that took place, have NOT been changed.
(hence the Future THAT is NOW, is STILL, Here Comes Tomorrow)

OK NOW THIS is WHERE Jean is REPAIRING the FUTURE she damaged while DISINFECTING it.

It then says, "No, Turn around, No End yet, there, Turn, Here before always, HOSPITAL White Hot

This is ACTUALLY the process taking place of a FUTURE being Repaired,

The "the Claw" takes the Future into the "HOSPITAL, White Hot Room"
As You Can SEE, around the Pink Crystal Power is Flowing, that's Phoenix REPAIRING the FUTURE

THEN

Jean loses concentration "IN THERE" (Inside the White Hot Room) and she is reminded to "Now heal wound MAKE Better FUTURE QUICKLY"

"Heart got stuck", (Because she Wasn't concentrating) Turn (some kinda White Hot Room code word for, "keep on fixing"😉

MAKE BETTER WHAT?

FUTURE!!!

HOW can Phoenix be INSIDE the White Hot Room, while being clearly OUTSIDE it when she says, "LOST CONCENTRATION IN THERE"?

The White Hot Room, is the HEART of the Phoenix, that's HOW:

Continues in the next post...

AFTER Phoenix Repairs the Future in the White Hot Room (Her Heart)

NEXT PANEL:

"Telekinetic control of all those Atoms at once isn't as easy as it sounds in training, NOT even for a White Phoenix of the Crown..."

"Telekinetic control of all those Atoms?".......

of WHAT Atoms?

The ONLY action I've seen, is A Future being Repaired.

It's actually talking about the FUTURE that was just Repaired.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Where was there any healing?

I just showed the world for the 20th time.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
We're told that theres a healing to come,

Only you were told that.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
where have you got justification for your interpretation?

New X-Men #154 & Grant Morrison on the, "HOW did she CHANGE the FUTURE" bit.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The future is taken off panel and never seen again. Where are the statements and on panel depiction pertaining to Jean performing an action SPECIFICALLY on the future?

When the Future is taken away, it's REPAIRED with in the White Hot Room or Hospital by Phoenix as I presented earlier.

THEN Phoenix is given a visualization of the Universe that Represents the FUTURE or unchanged event of Here Comes Tomorrow.

This is WHY it's a "badly wounded orphan universe"....ALOT of BAD things happened because of Sublime.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Surely she'd have need of this future if it was that that she was indeed repairing?

The Future was Repaired by the time we find out about the Atom control.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
If she'd done her repairing job then why would she be urged on to the hospital to heal and grow a better future?

LIAR!!!

Jean is NEVER told "to HEAL" anything in that scan....nice try.

"if you want IT to GROW a New FUTURE to replace the one you cut away"

The Future she "cut away" is the SAME Future that is NOW (Here Comes Tomorrow)

Jean Only cut it away to DISINFECT IT, NOT to discard it (It NEVER vanished)

He also says, "And they said I was to tell you to HURRY"

Implying she can't do this AT WILL, but with in a TIME LIMIT. (Now or Never)

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Surprised you got that one out with your mouth stuffed to the brim with MrMasters G-Strings.When you've got something useful to post other than your love confessions for MrM then please come back and share. Until then keep any off topic remarks to yourself. This heres a place for grown talk. Understand?

This along with everything else you posted is nothing but Gibberish.

You've lost your place.

masters is making more sense the other guy is just keeps accusing masters of ignoring his claims but its him who i see looking the other way and i cant believe the other guy is trying to overwrite what the writers themselves said about the story
masters i said it before and i say it again you the best ive seen at this clear cut explanations with the scans and it just makes sense

I always felt galactic storm to be the best debater and I still do.
I have to admit though that mr m is the one that has this argument down right.
I read both outlooks and mr m is correct in my opinion.

Full of speculation. Alot of your points are not stated on panel or depicted. Its pure supposition which isnt good enough im afraid. Every single one of my points is stated on panel or established in the title early. No need for stretching with my interpretation my friend.

Phoenix did indeed replace the future by altering past events however its a process that required her to materialize the 616 universe into the white hot room/hospital as dictated by the consciousness. A process what involved manipulation of the universes atoms as mentioned by the Consciousness.

The patient is not the future. The future is something Jean amputated. The future was taken away from Jean before she entered the White Hot Room and was never seen again on panel, therefore your theory is given no justification whatsoever. AFTER the future was taken away Jean was directed to "HEAL WOUND" and to "GROW A BETTER FUTURE"

If the patient was the future then surely she would have need of it in the white hot room where she was directed to go about performing the healing.

What did she materialize in the white hot room? The "BADLY WOUNDED UNIVERSE"

What was Jean told she needed to heal? The "BADLY WOUNDED UNIVERSE"

When Quentin Quire tells Jean how to grow a new future to REPLACE the one she cut away, what is it Jean had in her hand? The "BADLY WOUNDED UNIVERSE"

There you have it son, she was growing a new future to replace the one she cut away. There is NO mention whatsoever of her repairing the future she AMPUTATED and then tacking it back on. She cut it away because it was infested and that future was never seen or mentioned again. Liken it to the cutting down of the diseased stems of a garden plant, before watering the plant causing new stems to grow anew . Either way you are unsupported on panel. Your interpretation is a stretch

What is it Jean has in her hand right before we see the Phoenix effect and the past is altered? Yep you've guessed it 😉

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Full of speculation. Alot of your points are not stated on panel or depicted. Its pure supposition which isnt good enough im afraid. Every single one of my points is stated on panel or established in the title early. No need for stretching with my interpretation my friehoenix did indeed replace the future by altering past events however its a process that required her to materialize the 616 universe into the white hot room/hospital as dictated by the consciousness. A process what involved manipulation of the universes atoms as mentioned by the Consciousneshe patient is not the ture. The future is something Jean amputated. The future was taken away from Jean before she entered the White Hot Room and was never seen again on panel, therefore your theory is given no justification whatsoever. AFTER the future was taken away Jean was directed to "HEAL WOUND" and to tientthe future then surely sheould have need of it in the white hot room wheree was directed to go about performing the healint did she materialize ithe white hot room? The "BADLY WOUNDED UNIVERhat was Jean told she needed to heal? The "BADLY WOUNDENIVERSE"When Quentin Quire tells Jean how to grow a new future to REPLACE the one she cut away, what is it Jean had in her hand? The "BADLY WOUNDED UNIVERSEThere you have it son, she was growing a new future to replace the one she cut away. There is NO mention whatsoever of her repairing the future she AMPUTATED and then tacking it back on. She cut it away because it was infested and that future was never seen or mentioned again. Liken it to the cutting down of the diseased stems of a garden plant, before watering the plant causing new stems to grow anew . Either way you are unsupported on panel. Your interpretation is a stretch

firefirefireph

Originally posted by unknowable
I always felt galactic storm to be the best debater and I still do.
I have to admit though that mr m is the one that has this argument down right.
I read both outlooks and mr m is correct in my opinion.

The future is amputated and taken away from Jean BEFORE she is directed by the Consciousness to the white hot room to heal the wound and to grow a better future.

In the white hot room where she was directed to go about this healing she materializes the BADLY WOUNDED Universe. Was she not told to heal a wound?

Whilst there the Its actually stated what the patient is. The Consciousness states its the Badly wounded universe. The same one shes materialized. Why would she materialize it for nothing? Please think about it.

MrM says that the future isnt discarded its repaired. That isnt true. Again at the end Quentin tells Jean to GROW a NEW FUTURE to REPLACE the one she cut away she must.........

Theres no support on panel for saying that she cut away the future and then that same future was repaired and tacked on. Youre told clear as day that the HCT future was cut away, and that Jean had to GROW A NEW ONE, to REPLACE it.

Jean holding the BADLY WOUNDED ORPHAN UNIVERSE in the HOSPITAL where she was told to go to HEAL THE WOUND then alters past events resulting in an alternate future to sprout.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The future is amputated and taken away from Jean BEFORE she is directed by the Consciousness to the white hot room to heal the wound and to grow a better future.

In the white hot room where she was directed to go about this healing she materializes the BADLY WOUNDED Universe. Was she not told to heal a wound?

Whilst there the Its actually stated what the patient is. The Consciousness states its the Badly wounded universe. The same one shes materialized. Why would she materialize it for nothing? Please think about it.

MrM says that the future isnt discarded its repaired. That isnt true. Again at the end Quentin tells Jean to GROW a NEW FUTURE to REPLACE the one she cut away she must.........

Theres no support on panel for saying that she cut away the future and then that same future was repaired and tacked on. Youre told clear as day that the HCT future was cut away, and that Jean had to GROW A NEW ONE, to REPLACE it.

Jean holding the BADLY WOUNDED ORPHAN UNIVERSE in the HOSPITAL where she was told to go to HEAL THE WOUND then alters past events resulting in an alternate future to sprout.

I can't debate like you guys, but I can read and understand what I am reading.
From what I've read and seen with my own eyes, mr m is right.
If I were to read both posts from you and mr m without the scans, I would say you won, because like I said your a better debater in my mind, but on this particular arguement mr m is clearly right.
The Grant Morrison idea behind the end of story is the same as his.
I checked the back of #155, he's not making that up.

Please show me where its stated and depicted that that green mass, that future she amputated, the one that was taken away was healed and then tacked back on to 616.

AFTER the future is taken she is told to go to the hospital to heal the wound telling you conclusively that no healing has taken place at that point.

Its stated in the white hot room that it is the universe that needs fixing.

Jean is told that she needs to GROW a NEW future to REPLACE the one she cut away.

Theres no mention or depiction of the one she had previously cut away being repaired and then added back on. What Jean is told she has to do is COMPLETELY different.

If you think about it. How can that future be repaired and added back on if Jean has altered events in the past?

Surely that would result in a different future? So that couldnt be done.

Originally posted by unknowable
I can't debate like you guys, but I can read and understand what I am reading.
From what I've read and seen my own eyes, mr m is right.
If I were to read both posts from you and mr m without the scans, I would say you won, because like I said your a better debater in my mind, but on this particular arguement mr m is clearly right.
The Grant Morrison idea behind the end of story is the same as his.
I checked the back of #155, he's not making that up.

Its actually stated what the patient is. Its stated to be the badly wounded universe.

Its actually stated that Jean was to grow a NEW future to REPLACE the one she cut away.

With that in mind how can Mr M's idea that she took away the future and added it back on be right?

Plus if Jean went about solving the problem by altering past events then how can she just be adding on the amputated future which is the result of the previously unaltered events. Get what im saying now?

Prior to entering the "hospital" the HCT future is taken and never seen or mentioned on panel again. AFTER this happens at the bottom of this scene Jean is directed to the "hospital" to HEAL WOUND to GROW BETTER FUTURE

Here the patient, the thing that needs healing is marked out as the universe:

With that in mind there should be no debating who the patient is.

See this:

A NEW future to REPLACE the old one.

How did Jean to go about achieving this? By altering past events.

Therefore the HCT future conclusively wasnt repaired and added back on because the HCT universe is the result of the UNALTERED past.

Originally posted by Mr Master

"if you want IT to GROW a New FUTURE to replace the one you cut away"

The Future she "cut away" is the SAME Future that is NOW (Here Comes Tomorrow)

Jean Only cut it away to DISINFECT IT, NOT to discard it (It NEVER vanished)

He also says, "And they said I was to tell you to HURRY"

Implying she can't do this AT WILL, but with in a TIME LIMIT. (Now or Never)

What do you mean the HCT future wasnt discarded? Of course it was, youre basically told it was.

Theres nothing mentioned anywhere, no depiction anywhere of that amputated future being repaired and then added back on to the universe. Youre told here that Jean is going to GROW a NEWfuture to REPLACE the one she cut away. That certainly sounds like the old one got discarded to me 😉

On top of that as ive said several times now, Jean altered past events, so how can she then go an add on a future that is the result of events as they were before Jean altered them?

Please get back to me on that one. 🙂