No, sorry, if you dance around the problem, it will never be solved. it is well for such an issue to be directly confronted from time to tim so that everyone has reference points to just how much of an evil fundamentalism is.
Calling out what he believes to be the truth- calling an evil thing evil- and using a quote to provide historical perspective is not juvenile in the slightest. it was brave and entirely appropriate.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
No, but please tell.
September 11th 1683 was the date when the Muslim armies were defeated and stopped at the gates of Vienna.
It is the date which marked the decline of Muslim expansion in Europe.
September the 11th 1683, marked a date when the Muslims empire started to be expelled from Europe.
I strongly believe Osama picked this date VERY carefully.
Originally posted by Alliance
No, not offhand. I'm sure Osama had several dates in mind. It'd be hard to find symbolism for all of them.However, Islam and Judeo-Christian war is not happening, and I think everyone would like to keep it that way.
No. Osama knew EXACTLY which day to pick.
Sept 11th marked the begining of the defeat of Muslims in Europe.
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
September 11th 1683 was the date when the Muslim armies were defeated and stopped at the gates of Vienna.It is the date which marked the decline of Muslim expansion in Europe.
September the 11th 1683, marked a date when the Muslims empire started to be expelled from Europe.
I strongly believe Osama picked this date VERY carefully.
That makes sense to me. Thanks for the information.
Originally posted by AllianceLets take a page from CHristian philosophy and treat everyone as our brothers...with infinite forgiveness and patience. Instead of acting like two-year-olds and pointing gout all your brothers faults, why don't you help to fix them? Flaming them won't solve the problem. If this had happened 6 years ago, I'm willing to bet this sort of reaction would NOT have been observed.
I belive in being tolerant but what are you going to do when people dont listen?
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
I believe its a decleration of war, from Islam to Judeo-Christian culture.Does anyone know WHY Osama picked 9/11? Does anyone recall what happened on 9/11 in the 17th century?
By the way from my undertsanding Bush could have stopped that from happening. Obvoulsy I do not support Osama but bear in mind that in the real world you tend not to have good and evil, but evil and less evil. Islamic fundementalists are evil but the good guys are not the Bush Administration either.
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
September 11th 1683 was the date when the Muslim armies were defeated and stopped at the gates of Vienna.It is the date which marked the decline of Muslim expansion in Europe.
September the 11th 1683, marked a date when the Muslims empire started to be expelled from Europe.
I strongly believe Osama picked this date VERY carefully.
If anyone is interested in reading up on this part of history, Google 'Battle of Vienna'.
Originally posted by Alfheim
I belive in being tolerant but what are you going to do when people dont listen?
You force them to listen, through kind acts and patience.
Originally posted by Alfheim
By the way from my undertsanding Bush could have stopped that from happening. Obvoulsy I do not support Osama but bear in mind that in the real world you tend not to have good and evil, but evil and less evil. Islamic fundementalists are evil but the good guys are not the Bush Administration either.
It doens't have to me either or...either. I think you oversetimate Bush's power to have stopped the situation.
Originally posted by Alliance
Thats not a military strategy at all. I have answers, but I'm wondering if this is more coincidence (the Spetember 11th).
I don't deny the possibility of a coincidence, however I personally strongly believe against it.
Osama Bin Laden is highly educated man, and I believe he is not ignorant on this point of history.
In fact im almost certain of it.
Im a descendant of South East Europe, and Sept 11th 1683 is one of the most important dates in European History, because it did mark the begining of the expelling of Muslims out of Europe after 600 years of invasion.
Osama has planned everything very very carefully - its all symbolic, and thus picking of the date, I highly doubt would have been complitely at radnom.
And the considence is too great. He could have picked any other date he could have picked the Independence Day, or any other day, and considering the historical sagnificance of September 11th for Europeans and Muslims, my personal theory is, that decline of Muslims is over, and they are ready to once again push back. And Osama has made that very clear.
Actually, when you say 'European History' it almost every time leans on the NAzis and the World Wars...for some reason.
It is actually here as well, that unless you specifically think about certain periods in History, are thought the generic - Greece to Rome (BIG GAP OF HISTORY) Revolutions, then World Wars.
Not a lot is thought inbetween. Same goes for individual countries, such as kings and queens of North European countries...its all ever so vague.
Originally posted by grey foxIt was and also he wasn't trying to condemn islam but they always twist things around to make us look like we are attacking them or their religion.
I thought that the quotation was meant for comparing the way that both Christianity and Muslim have evolved.In a sense he was saying "If you pulled this shit 300 years ago we would say kill those heathenistic dogs and our god will be pleased , now were Tolerant , why the hell aren't you" ?
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Actually, when you say 'European History' it almost every time leans on the NAzis and the World Wars...for some reason.It is actually here as well, that unless you specifically think about certain periods in History, are thought the generic - Greece to Rome (BIG GAP OF HISTORY) Revolutions, then World Wars.
Not a lot is thought inbetween. Same goes for individual countries, such as kings and queens of North European countries...its all ever so vague.
In Germany we have a gap between about 400 and 900 but then we do learn about the History again. Not nearly as much as recent history, but it is not left out.