Originally posted by debbiejo
Why is it that people have to feel the need to exult themselves or their own beliefs??.......why is it, when it is soooooooo simple.........we are all the same..........all the same...........all the same............
In you own post you have confirmed what I just said.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive2 Corinthians 5:7
For we walk by faith, not by sight.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Hebrews 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please Him , for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.[/b]]
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. [/B]
Originally posted by Nellinator
I did not exult myself. Perhaps I should have worded it differently. I have never performed a miracle myself, but that does not make it untrue. There are unexplainable things performed through the Holy Spirit and these provide evidence for God.
Not every single "miracle" is evidense for God. There is also "evidense" for reincarnation...
"Miracles" occur for different reasons, and there are many possibilities as to why they may or may not occur...in India, there are plenty of "Hindu" miracles, as well as in "Tarot" palm readings, many of the fortune telling happens to be extremely accurate...why is that ?
Why do you give "God" credit for every single supernatural thing that occurs? It is not evidense...
Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Faith is the substance of what I hope for (i.e. hope just represents an un-manifested something such as a desire, wish, want, or reality) the evidence of things not seen. Faith is the proof of what I believe until I can contact it with my senses. But my faith is based on the Word of God. Faith is not a feeling. Feelings are subject to the vicissitudes of life and the fickleness of human nature. That is why God gives us faith. Faith is not feeling and feeling is not faith. Feelings are subject to the physical realm of the human experience. But faith is located and functions from or in another domain: the heart, and spiritual realm. With faith I can see God (as it were), with faith I can see Heaven (as it were). I don’t need to actually see either to know that it exists. That is where faith comes in. But my point is that faith and feelings are night and day dynamics.
What about this don't you understand?
My faith is not based on sight (I have not seen Jesus Christ or Heaven). My faith is not predicated on feelings (I don't feel God per se but there is an inward Witness, the Holy Spirit, Who bears witness with my spirit that I am God's child. He confirms in my spirit with a palpable knowing that I am saved). My faith is not founded on what I hear (I have not heard the audible voice of God). My faith is not based on my olfactory senses (I have not smelled God's regal fragrance, some who have gone to Heaven have and they said that there is no fragrance like it anywhere, they cannot even describe it). My faith is not rooted in what I can taste. (I have not tasted water from the pure river of water of life, clear as crystal or any of Heaven's succulent fruits).
So since my faith is not based on any of my five senses then it must of necessity be based on something else. Faith is like an extra-dimensional sense, a sixth sense if you would. I just threw that in there, but the Bible does not call faith a sixth sense. The Bible describes faith as being a law (a spiritual law).
Romans 3:27
Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith.
The Bible calls faith the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen.
Did you get that Pitt? The Bible just said that faith is the evidence and another word for evidence is proof. So my faith is the proof--but my faith is intrinsically based on or connected to the Word of God (remember I just demonstrated that my faith is not based on anything perceptible through my senses). You cannot separate faith from the Word of God or the Word of God from faith. Can you separate wetness from water? No? How about water from wetness? No? Can you separate heat energy from fire? What about fire from some sort of heat energy? No? Well neither can you separate faith from God's Word or God's Word from faith.
The Bible states that,
Romans 10:17
So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Faith comes by hearing God's Word. When I use the word faith as the Bible uses it, I am not talking about a religious persuasion. I am talking about a spiritual law. The law of faith.
Romans 3:27
Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith.
So faith is a law. There are many kinds of natural laws (i.e. the law of electromagnetism, the law of aerodynamics, the law of gravity, etc.) But faith is a spiritual law. It works by believing in the heart and by confessing with the mouth.
That is why the Word states,
Romans 10:9
that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
Romans 10:10
For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Confessing (or simply saying) and believing (self-explanatory). These two components working in tandem are the mechanics of faith. They demonstrate how faith works or operates. I believe in my heart that Jesus Christ is Lord and that God raised Him from the dead. But do I stop there? No. I must confess what I believe for my faith in that Truth (not fact--Truth) to benefit me. Once I say with my mouth what I believe in my heart my faith is activated as it were. That is how I got born again. I did what the Bible said do. I believed in my heart and confessed with my mouth and instantly the Holy Spirit made me a new creation in Christ Jesus. It was like scales fell from my eyes. I began to see evidence of God in His creation. His handiwork was apparent everywhere. I was blind just like you. I never believed in evolution but I did used to doubt that the Bible was the Word of God. I was blind. That is why you have a hard time seeing evidence for God in His creation because you are "spiritually" blind. I know that sounds insensitive for me to say. But I didn't say it God did.
He said,
2 Corinthians 4:2-4
But we have renounced the hidden things of shame, not walking in craftiness nor handling the word of God deceitfully, but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God. But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.
So don't throw you rocks at me throw them at God. I just reported what He said.
Wow, I started out just trying to show that faith is not a feeling.
Faith is a feeling and a belief, there is nothing else, saying the Bible proves that faith is something else is the perfect definition of a circular argument. You must have faith in the Bible to believe its true because the Bible says so.
Faith:
1. confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another's ability.
2. belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact.
3. belief in God or in the doctrines or teachings of religion: the firm faith of the Pilgrims.
4. belief in anything, as a code of ethics, standards of merit, etc.: to be of the same faith with someone concerning honesty.
5. a system of religious belief: the Christian faith; the Jewish faith.
6. the obligation of loyalty or fidelity to a person, promise, engagement, etc.: Failure to appear would be breaking faith.
7. the observance of this obligation; fidelity to one's promise, oath, allegiance, etc.: He was the only one who proved his faith during our recent troubles.
8. Christian Theology. the trust in God and in His promises as made through Christ and the Scriptures by which humans are justified or saved.
Originally posted by ThePittman
Faith is a feeling and a belief, there is nothing else, saying the Bible proves that faith is something else is the perfect definition of a circular argument. You must have faith in the Bible to believe its true because the Bible says so.Faith:
1. confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another's ability.
2. belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact.
3. belief in God or in the doctrines or teachings of religion: the firm faith of the Pilgrims.
4. belief in anything, as a code of ethics, standards of merit, etc.: to be of the same faith with someone concerning honesty.
5. a system of religious belief: the Christian faith; the Jewish faith.
6. the obligation of loyalty or fidelity to a person, promise, engagement, etc.: Failure to appear would be breaking faith.
7. the observance of this obligation; fidelity to one's promise, oath, allegiance, etc.: He was the only one who proved his faith during our recent troubles.
8. Christian Theology. the trust in God and in His promises as made through Christ and the Scriptures by which humans are justified or saved.
Your own definition belies your description of faith as being a feeling. The word feeling is nowhere present. I have given you an abundance of Scriptures describing what faith is and you persist in calling it a feeling. I am done with this discussion. You can reply to this post but I will not respond.
Originally posted by JesusIsAliveDamn you really don’t read these posts do you, you only take what you want out of them and twist them. I said that Faith is a feeling and a belief, just because I can back my words up with something other then circular logic you have to get all huffy and puffy about it. One of the most common reasons other then being raised in the religion is that they felt the presence of God/Jesus in the heart and soul and this is why they believe.
Your own definition belies your description of faith as being a feeling. The word feeling is nowhere present. I have given you an abundance of Scriptures describing what faith is and you persist in calling it a feeling. I am done with this discussion. You can reply to this post but I will not respond.
Feeling
1. to perceive or examine by touch.
2. to have a sensation of (something), other than by sight, hearing, taste, or smell: to feel a toothache.
3. to find or pursue (one's way) by touching, groping, or cautious moves.
4. to be or become conscious of.
5. to be emotionally affected by: to feel one's disgrace keenly.
6. to experience the effects of: The whole region felt the storm.
7. to have a particular sensation or impression of (often used reflexively and usually fol. by an adjunct or complement): to feel oneself slighted.
8. to have a general or thorough conviction of; think; believe: I feel he's guilty.
–verb (used without object)
9. to have perception by touch or by any nerves of sensation other than those of sight, hearing, taste, and smell.
10. to make examination by touch; grope.
11. to perceive a state of mind or a condition of body: to feel happy; to feel well.
12. to have a sensation of being: to feel warm.
13. to make itself perceived or apparent; seem: How does it feel to be rich?
–noun
14. a quality of an object that is perceived by feeling or touching: the soft feel of cotton.
15. a sensation of something felt; a vague mental impression or feeling: a feel of winter; a feel of sadness in the air.
16. the sense of touch: soft to the feel.
17. native ability or acquired sensitivity: to have a feel for what is right.
18. Informal. an act or instance of touching with the hand or fingers.
19. Slang (vulgar ). an act or instance of feeling up.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Why do you state that "religion" holds that it should be exempt from such scrutiny? Are you and Imperial Samura related? You two sound very much alike.The Bible is repelete with scientific facts. In fact, the world around you is a testament to God's sublime/eminent intelligence, wisdom, and understanding. I would like to see the schematic diagram of the universe that you have created and sustain by your power, might, and wisdom (this challenge applies to every unbeliever on this forum as well. I don't want anyone to feel left out). Why...why don't scientists apply the same logic to the origin of the universe that they do to everything else? How can a college graduate with all those letters before and after his/her name come to the brilliant deduction and conclusion that this perfectly working universe just evolved? Take a look at this Saleen S7 Twin Turbo.
As sophisticated as this exquisite machinery is, it is not remotely as involved, intricate, sophisticated and complex, as even one cell in the human body. Yet you believe that cells, matter, energy, all life, nature itself, the universe, and natural laws just sprang into existence by itself and for no reason.
I have no words in my extensive vocabulary to describe such utter, rank, and unmitigated foolishness. Yet your own scientists tell you that all things are a result of cause and effect. But when it comes to life you believe it just happened by itself and for no reason. That is as absurd as me affirming that the Saleen S7 in the above picture just found itself in my driveway (I don't have one I am just speaking hypothetically). That no intelligent designer was responsible.
[You: Where did this amazing car come from?] (Let us just say for discussion sake that we could live for eons of years.)
[Me: you are not going to believe this: it just evolved!]
[You: This complex, sophisticated, state-of-the-art machine from another world just evolved?]
[Me: that's right!]
[You: JesusIsAlive, I don't mean to offend you but...are you taking expired medication?]
[Me:No, why do you ask?]
[You: You just said that this splendid, magnificent conveyance that seems to defy and transcend human understanding just evolved--for no reason—and found itself in your driveway.]
[Me: Well, that is what the scientists of our day say, and you know they have all the answers. If anybody ought to know where matter came from it would have to be them.]
[You: But JIA, it does not make sense that something this complex just evolved. There had to be an intelligent designer…there just had to be.]
[Me: I told you that it evolved over billions of years from a washer to a nut to a bolt and so on. There are even fossilized washers in the ground. Scientists are unearthing them as we speak.]
[You: I believe otherwise. Here is what I believe: I believe that this car had an intelligent designer/manufacturer.]
[Me: That is absurd. Science says that this car evolved and it can be proven.]Do you follow what I am saying?
This is what I experience as a Christian, except in this example I am the believer in the Intelligent Designer and you are the believer in evolution.
Did this car just evolve?
You also have to look at the odds of life happening, they say it’s like 5 billion to one that the right conditions for life can occur. About 30 billion stars in our galaxy are roughly "Sun-like", and astronomers guess that between 5 and 90 percent of those have planets like Jupiter. So there might be between 1.5 and 27 billion Jupiter-like planets in our galaxy. There may be many more smaller ones so now if you look at the odds, it’s not to far off.
Originally posted by ThePittman
You also have to look at the odds of life happening, they say it’s like 5 billion to one that the right conditions for life can occur. About 30 billion stars in our galaxy are roughly "Sun-like", and astronomers guess that between 5 and 90 percent of those have planets like Jupiter. So there might be between 1.5 and 27 billion Jupiter-like planets in our galaxy. There may be many more smaller ones so now if you look at the odds, it’s not to far off.
👆
The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, sorry I just really like that line.
Creationists can use whatever arguement they want, but there is one I particularly hate that some creationists use as proof which is the fact that life occurring is very very very unlikely which must mean it is impossible...
"I have no words in my extensive vocabulary to describe such utter, rank, and unmitigated foolishness. Yet your own scientists tell you that all things are a result of cause and effect. But when it comes to life you believe it just happened by itself and for no reason. That is as absurd as me affirming that the Saleen S7 in the above picture just found itself in my driveway (I don't have one I am just speaking hypothetically). That no intelligent designer was responsible."
and yet you believe that some omnipotent ruler of everything can simply exist because you say so... I think you said it best here...
"I have no words in my extensive vocabulary to describe such utter, rank, and unmitigated foolishness."
hypocrite...