Ion vs Phoenix

Originally posted by id369
With so much BS spewed all over the thread.
Phoenix held the universe in the palm of her hand.

Only difference is Uatu (a Watcher) held reality 311 withIN Time & Space,
while Phoenix needed to be withIN the WHR to do so.

But just imagine what Cube beings are capable of
when they can grant the Full power of the Phoneix Force to others.

And then imagine Celestials when Cube beings are like nothing to them.

And the list keeps going up, up.

Originally posted by id369
Just leaving that clear.

Baby Timeline? This has gone long enough, it’s the future reality played out in current event.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I agree, Phoenix did hold a baby Timeline (reality 15104) in her hands just like Uatu did.

Only difference is Uatu (a Watcher) held reality 311 withIN Time & Space,
while Phoenix needed to be withIN the WHR to do so.

But just imagine what Cube beings are capable of
when they can grant the Full power of the Phoneix Force to others.

And then imagine Celestials when Cube beings are like nothing to them.

And the list keeps going up, up.

I enjoy clarifications myself.

Yeah grant the full powers to that which alread had it? And then not be able to stop it...

Originally posted by Creshosk
That's funny, that's different from what you said in that other post of yours where you made it clear she was outside of it ...

I never said Jean held reality 15104 outside the WHR.
The Future of reality 15104 was amputated.

The only time Reality 15104 manifested in Jean's hands was in the WHR,
which she didn't know what it was or what to do with it.
(but some cats will have you believe
Jean was breaking down its component parts/restructuring blah, blah)

Originally posted by Creshosk
Yeah grant the full powers to that which alread had it?

I remember Rachel becoming one with the Force like 8 Years after the Cube being incident.

Originally posted by Creshosk
And then not be able to stop it...

I agree.
......................................................................................

That's a huge misconception.

While wielding the Full power of the PF,
Rachel had just touched the life of every common being in the universe,
their desires, their pains, their dreams ect.

When Beyonder took back the power he gave Rachel,
she threw back at him the experiences of every common being in the universe,
Beyonder was overwhelmed because he expecrienced every single individual life simultaneously,
he had no idea common folk could be so precious.
......................................................................................

The on panel proof:

Rachel (Full FP) touches every common being in the Universe:

You can read them completely but this excerpt from those scans says it all:

"She touches everyone, she experiences their dreams,
their yearnings, their terrors,
all they were and are and hope to be,
the totality of their beings"
......................................................................................

Rachel also freaks out from the experience, but Storm is there to console her:

......................................................................................

Rachel was never able to hurt Beyonder physically in any way shape or form:

"You are what you are solely because I will it"
......................................................................................

This is when Beyonder takes the Full power of the Phoenix Force back:

What is it that Beyonder can't stop,
what is it that overwhelmed Beyonder?

What Rachel had just collected from every individual.

"He sought power --- but this is far more --
All that Phoenix experienced
the totality of Life, in all its forms"

Which is why Storm says,

"We each have our little lives, our destinies, our unique paths to walk"
......................................................................................

Beyonder even appreciated learning of the preciousness of individual life:

"Thank you for what you have shown me this night,
it is strange --- but I find myself envying your ... Humanity"

Originally posted by id369
Baby Timeline? This has gone long enough,
it’s the future reality played out in current event.

Reality 311 (the year 1602) 100 years old, another baby.
........................................................................................

Uatu holding and placing a Timeline - reality 311 (year 1602) inside himself:

"I place the High Tribunal's gift inside me; A Tiny Universe"
........................................................................................

Jean holding a Timeline - reality 15104 (year 2154) in her hands:

"An orphan universe ... it lost its Parents"
.......................................................................................

"Orphan" ... "lost its Parents?"

Self explanatory. 🙂

So Mr. Master, Uatu= WC Phoenix 😖hifty:

Originally posted by Mr Master
Not exactly Cresh.

I never said Jean held reality 15104 outside the WHR.
The Future of reality 15104 was amputated.

The only time Reality 15104 manifested in Jean's hands was in the WHR,
which she didn't know what it was or what to do with it.
(but some cats will have you believe
Jean was breaking down its component parts/restructuring blah, blah)

Interesting,
I never knew Rachel had the Full power of the Phoenix Force
before a Cube being gave it to her.
(do you have proof?)

I remember Rachel becoming one with the Force like 8 Years after the Cube being incident.

You mean sympathizing with the feelings/emotions/and preciousness of humanity,
back by his own power?

I agree.
......................................................................................

That's a huge misconception.

While wielding the Full power of the PF,
Rachel had just touched the life of every common being in the universe,
their desires, their pains, their dreams ect.

When Beyonder took back the power he gave Rachel,
she threw back at him the experiences of every common being in the universe,
Beyonder was overwhelmed because he expecrienced every single individual life simultaneously,
he had no idea common folk could be so precious.
......................................................................................

The on panel proof:

Rachel (Full FP) touches every common being in the Universe:

You can read them completely but this excerpt from those scans says it all:

"She touches everyone, [B]she experiences their dreams,
their yearnings, their terrors,
all they were and are and hope to be,
the totality of their beings"
......................................................................................

Rachel also freaks out from the experience, but Storm is there to console her:

......................................................................................

Rachel was never able to hurt Beyonder physically in any way shape or form:

"You are what you are solely because I will it"
......................................................................................

This is when Beyonder takes the Full power of the Phoenix Force back:

What is it that Beyonder can't stop,
what is it that overwhelmed Beyonder?

What Rachel had just collected from every individual.

"He sought power --- but this is far more --
All that Phoenix experienced
the totality of Life, in all its forms"

Which is why Storm says,

"We each have our little lives, our destinies, our unique paths to walk"
......................................................................................

Beyonder even appreciated learning of the preciousness of individual life:

"Thank you for what you have shown me this night,
it is strange --- but I find myself envying your ... Humanity" [/B]

So what was that with pointing out that the white hot room was within her heart and that when she was holding something she wasn't in it?

and I never said he was damaged, just that he couldn't stop her. And that's exactly what it says on panel.

"He tries to turn away but learns he cannot. He tries to make the phoenix stop -but she will not."

Obviously there was some other force at play either it was not her intent to damage/harm him or something else kept the other onlookers such as stom from going blind.

Either Beyonder was protecting them (not likely given the context of his most reacently tried to destroy the universe via rachel)
Or she wasn't trying to cause damage. (most likely scenerio)
Or there was another unseen force protecting the onlookers. (No real evidence to support this one.)

See what I'm getting at here?

Originally posted by Priest
So Mr. Master, Uatu= WC Phoenix

What it does show is that,
holding a baby/tiny Timeline is not all its craked up to be.

Imo, Jean repairing atomically reality 15104's Future, was more impressing.
I just dislike that once again, she needed the WHR to do so.

I think the biggest feat with that WHR thing waasn't her changing the timeline, but rather her controlling all the atoms in that universe with TK alone. It's pretty neat.

Originally posted by Creshosk
and I never said he was damaged, just that he couldn't stop her.
And that's exactly what it says on panel.

"He tries to turn away but learns he cannot.
He tries to make the phoenix stop -but she will not."

That's all I can say, so long as we don't forget why as I presented in the scans.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Obviously there was some other force at play either it was not her intent to damage/harm him or something else kept the other onlookers such as stom from going blind.

Either Beyonder was protecting them (not likely given the context of his most reacently tried to destroy the universe via rachel)
Or she wasn't trying to cause damage. (most likely scenerio)
Or there was another unseen force protecting the onlookers. (No real evidence to support this one.)

I believe the power went straight into Beyonder,
and the onlookers just got a cool light show.

Originally posted by Creshosk
See what I'm getting at here?

Only it didn’t amputate an isolated timeline, that is not what the comic remarks nor the bios. Jean amputated a universe, fluctuating on a future timeline.

I don’t see why so much emphasis is placed on Beyonders feat. Isn’t that the same cosmic cube being that seemingly handled a group of Celestials in the vary same arc?

Originally posted by King Kandy
I think the biggest feat with that WHR thing waasn't her changing the timeline

It was Scott's decision that gave life to reality 15104,
it was Scott's decision that altered reality 15104,
Jean did manipulate Scott's decision.

Originally posted by King Kandy
but rather her controlling all the atoms in that universe with TK alone.
It's pretty neat.

Jean never did anything directly to reality 15104.

Except control it's atoms.

It's not something to argue, they just flat out say it.

Originally posted by id369
Only it didn’t amputate an isolated timeline, that is not what the comic remarks nor the bios. Jean amputated a universe, fluctuating on a future timeline.

but there's a huge difference
between a Universe that's been expanding for billions of years,
and a universe that's barely over 150 years old.

This is why Uatu (a simple Watcher) can also hold Timelines in his hands like marbels.

Originally posted by id369
I don’t see why so much emphasis is placed on Beyonders feat. Isn’t that the same cosmic cube being that seemingly handled a group of Celestials in the vary same arc?

The Beyonder now a Cube being giving Rachel the Full power of the Phoenix Force,
was never retconned, and in fact, was re-stated officially:
........................................................................................

POST-Retcon Beyonder gave Rachel the FULL power of the embodiment of the Phoenix Force:

(excerpt from the Official Marvel Handbook 2004 - Marvel Girl bio)

"Beyonder once hinted
that Rachel could potentially become equal in power to the previous Phoenix.

Indeed,
the Beyonder granted Rachel the Full power that the previous Phoenix had possessed"

........................................................................................

This is POST-Retcon Beyonder (Cube Being) getting the credit for this.

On Panel verification:

Beyonder gives Rachel the power:

Rachel becomes the Full embodiment of the Phoenix Force:

Originally posted by Mr Master
That would be a definite, cause she never changed anything.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Except control it's atoms.

It's not something to argue, they just flat out say it.

The High Tribunal Watcher completely re-created from nothingness timeline/reality 311.

So yea, they're both cool feats I agree.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Except Scott's mind.

Ok who says the timeline is 150 years old, it still retains all previous history. The Cosmos do not seemingly make themselves in 150’s years worth.

Bios are known for being incorrect, so I’ll ask you one more time. Is this the same cosmic cube being that utterly beat a group of Celestials?

Originally posted by id369
Ok who says the timeline is 150 years old, it still retains all previous history.
The Cosmos do not seemingly make themselves in 150’s years worth.

Here's Reality 311 at 15 years old, already a Timeline/universe:

"The Rift in Space ... something came through it

about Fifteen Years ago,

something that made everything else happen"
......................................................................................

It's age increses twice, I got more scans if need be. 🙂

......................................................................................

Realitys begin their age count from the moment they are born,
so oin the same way Reality 15104 is 150 years old:

Originally posted by id369
Bios are known for being incorrect, so I’ll ask you one more time. Is this the same cosmic cube being that utterly beat a group of Celestials?

Originally posted by Mr Master
Actually, it was later noted on panel and in the bios (retcon)
that the Celestials allowed Beyonder to do that to ease his conscious development.

The Beyonder now a Cube being giving Rachel the Full power of the Phoenix Force,
was never retconned, and in fact, was re-stated officially:

What are you talking about, a future time line becomes a parallel reality. It drift from a point of origin, yet still retains its prior history. You don’t hold and say LOOK 150 year old reality. It the future from 150 years ago from Now. Jean held a universe,in its entirety.

Placing so much trust in bios, the comic states that those events ware nothing more then illusions.