RAVEN vs. JEAN GREY

Magic vs. Psychic
no phoenix

Raven, Soulself tears jean a new one.

Jean Grey is a very accomplished astral fighter, the soul and the astral form are synonymous, I doubt it will be that easy. Her telepathy has been shown to be very effective against magical/supernatural beings like Nightmare, Rutai, The Goblyn Queen, and Ogun.

Have you seen what Raven's fully unleashed soulself can do?

Originally posted by Ext@nt
Have you seen what Raven's fully unleashed soulself can do?

Well it tears your soul apart,
It can send you into another deminson
It destoryed Trigon, a very powerful demon.

Originally posted by Ext@nt
Well it tears your soul apart,
It can send you into another deminson
It destoryed Trigon, a very powerful demon.

Raven takes this she is a more skillful astral fighter and ruthless. Normal Jean is to weak and isn't a well accomplished telepath nor telekinetic.

Jean Grey without the PF doesn't really work.

Marvel Girl was the only Jean we knew without the PF, and basically her training was lifting up a 50 lb weight with tk.

This is merely Jean Grey without channeling Phoenix, she is a very accomplished telekinetic/telepath, the soulself is still an astral projection a purely psychic construct, and can be dealt with by telepathic energy. There is a fine line between psionic and mystical energy, a powerful psi can do just about anything a magic user can do, through sheer force of will. And I thought it was the collective souls of Azar that ultimately defeated Trigon. Jean also has the advantage of telekinesis which she can use, both being psi talents their powers work at about the same speed, but Raven is only an empath, while Jean is the second most powerful telepath of her world.

In the very first issue of Xmen Jean easily levitated Beast, spun him around and dropped him, she also (in the same issue) telekinetically plucked missiles from the air and directed then into the sea.

Ravens Soulself destoryed one of the most powerfull demons in the DCU.

In the animated series not the comic.

Raven wins.

Yes in the comic, In the first few issues of New Teen Titans, Where do you think the TV show got it from?

Here's a little hint, before you shoot your mouth off try reading the comics to make sure you dont sitck your foot in it.

Trigon was banished not destroyed then he came back and the souls of Azar channeled their power through Raven and that is how he was destroyed. If the soulself is all Raven has to offer then she hardly stands a chance against a telekinetic telepath of the highest order. (I had to edit because of my first sentence forgive my ignorant use of the english language if in fact anybody read before the edit)

Read up on what her soulself can do.

only if you read up on what Jean can do, and since we're all reading there is no such thing as Jean without Phoenix. Being a telepath Jean could sense Ravens intent and crush her telekintically before she sends out that soulself, if Ravens soulself surives and goes on to kill Jean well, we all know what happened the first time Jean died, Phoenix was born.

Oh god you just cant keep the Phoenix Fanboys out can you? Raven has spells that are mroe then capable of taking jean out as often as she comes back. Back when they fought she almost went toe to to and she wasnt even half as experianced at magic as she is now.

Get over the Phoenix Fanlove already.

Call me what you want, there is only one true Phoenix fanboy on this forum and I am not it, what there seems to be more than anything else are Phoenix anti-fanboys, there is not a spell in creation that can keep the Phoenix from rising or resurrecting Jean and if there is Jean can make her forget it just as fast as she can slam her ass around with telekinesis.