RAVEN vs. JEAN GREY

lol Raven also posses strong TK through magic.

As I said as a novice Raven went toe to toe with Dark Phoenix in a cross over comic.

Now she could deal with her. all she has to do is kill the avatar and the phoenix goes away.

At least we face logic. Phoenix Fan boys seem to think she can do anything. She was killed by Wolverines claws in Exiles 1-3. Raven can do worse.

We're not talking about Dark Phoenix, we're talking about Jean Grey, Dark Phoenix is a uncalculating killer who reacts without thinking, we're talking about Jean Grey who covers the fact that she is just a calculating and cold as any villain with what she learned from Xavier. At the onset of any battle Jean scans her enemy because she truly believes knowledge is power, The Phoenix force that is one with Jean can neutralize the effects of magic as shown at the end of Inferno. Raven can accomplish quasi-telekinetic feats with her magic, but is it stronger than Jean, whom without the Phoenix can keep Magnetos base held aloft through an entire battle between the X-men and the Acolytes?

Yes read up on Raven, you cant actually kill her. She just becomes a spirit and then Jean has no way of touching her. Read up on Raven.

I've read up on your Fanlove, the Phoenix. Raven went toe to toe with her as Dark Phoenix, She can handle Jean the less powered version.

When did you join are you GS?

spirits souls astral forms are all the same a telepath can "touch" them! Jean comes back physically, so she wins if this is a contest of who has the best resurrection.

no i am not GS, and if I were that would mean he suffers from multiple personality disorder as we have debated before.

No they arent the same and if raven can stand up to Dark Phoenix she can whip around the less powered version.

Read up GS jr.

1. Crossovers should not even be considered canonn
2. Calling someone GS based on their knowledge of Phoenix isn't exactly an insult...
3. Raven goes down.

They are the same, read up on your metaphysics from which all these terms spring from, actually the spirit is the part of you that is riddled with your mortal memories, the soul is the part of you the reconnects with the divine, astral is a more new age term that is used universally to identify either of the former, either way telepaths in this world and next have claimed the ability to communicate and manipulate both. The less powered version uses more intellect and does not rely on brute strength, the same reason why Spiderman can defeat Juggernaut.

Thanks you really hammered that smurph on the smurph. 👆 😊

In Exiles Wolverine killed her with his claws. Im sure raven can do it.

The phoenix creature is powerfull, but its avatar is vulnerable.

You Phoenix Fanboys need to get over the fact that the bird is not the supreme power you think it is.

Originally posted by Ext@nt
In Exiles Wolverine killed her with his claws. Im sure raven can do it.

The phoenix creature is powerfull, but its avatar is vulnerable.

You Phoenix Fanboys need to get over the fact that the bird is not the supreme power you think it is.

It's just the regular Jean Grey.

Then Raven owns her 10/10

Nobody has argued the fact that the avatar is mortal, but she'll be back, when she feels like it. The titans killed evil Raven! Please stop using Dark Phoenix as your only means of explaining Phoenix she was way more powerful before she let her dark side take over. It was assumed that Dark Phoenix could destroy the universe (she only did it in a what if) good Phoenix as well as White Crown Phoenix (in the form of Jean Grey) preserved all existence with a lot of effort in as the latter and next to no effort in the former.

Originally posted by LordKaos
Nobody has argued the fact that the avatar is mortal, but she'll be back, when she feels like it. The titans killed evil Raven! Please stop using Dark Phoenix as your only means of explaining Phoenix she was way more powerful before she let her dark side take over. It was assumed that Dark Phoenix could destroy the universe (she only did it in a what if) good Phoenix as well as White Crown Phoenix (in the form of Jean Grey) preserved all existence with a lot of effort in as the latter and next to no effort in the former.

Originally posted by psy_blade
Magic vs. Psychic
no phoenix

The whole point is, if the regular Jean dies she comes back as Phoenix, which is her lifeforce. That being said nobody has given one valid reason as to why the regular Jean would get owned.

Originally posted by bigbran
OWNED!!!

Phoenix was killed by Wolverine, Xorn, and a laser turret on the moon.

I dont care how many times she comes back, Raven will keep killing the avatars.

Phoenix Fanboyism should be considered a valid illness.

Magic users have to study for years to accomplish psi feats, there are psi talents who can do what magic users can do with their thoughts alone.

Originally posted by LordKaos
The whole point is, if the regular Jean dies she comes back as Phoenix, which is her lifeforce. That being said nobody has given one valid reason as to why the regular Jean would get owned.

You do realize that when Jean gets punked by regular mutants, that Raven is out fighting people that are way over her?

Those same things can kill Raven as well.

Raven has stood up to people way more powerful then the ones who kill your fanboy obssesion.