seph wins this, he is much faster, can fly, and can cut through anything...from a distance (ok, not ANYTHING, clouds sword for one, but you know what i mean), nothing kratos could do would hit sephiroth, then fwap...there rolls his head....then he escapes from hades, then dies again, and escapes from hades...ya know im getting sick of him escaping from the underworld.
Originally posted by menokokoro seph wins this,
He never had the win even prior to GoWIII
he is much faster
So were half the Gods Kratos fought, and even then Seph's still not faster than them. Zeus and Poseidon could do virtually everything Sephiroth had ever shown in terms of mobility, and thensome.
can fly
If flying were an advantage against Kratos, it'd only ever be so as a means of escape from him.
and can cut through anything...from a distance (ok, not ANYTHING, clouds sword for one, but you know what i mean)
If Sephiroth can't cut through Cloud's sword, he gonna cut through anything Kratos wields, and possibly not even Kratos himself. And anything from a distance is just gonna be sent right back at him two fold.
nothing kratos could do would hit sephiroth
And not kill the latter afterward.
then fwap...there rolls his head
Square into Sephiroth's face. Refer to a Kratos vs Hercules video to see the likely end result.
Originally posted by BloodRawEngine1. Zeus can not do what sephiroth can, at least he has never shown to be able to. and even if they were faster than seph, them being beaten does not prove that his speed wouldn't help in his fight, that only proves that it didn't help them
So were half the Gods Kratos fought, and even then Seph's still not faster than them. Zeus and Poseidon could do virtually everything Sephiroth had ever shown in terms of mobility, and thensome.If flying were an advantage against Kratos, it'd only ever be so as a means of escape from him.
If Sephiroth can't cut through Cloud's sword, he gonna cut through anything Kratos wields, and possibly not even Kratos himself. And anything from a distance is just gonna be sent right back at him two fold.
And not kill the latter afterward.
Square into Sephiroth's face. Refer to a Kratos vs Hercules video to see the likely end result.
2. yeah...getting out of range from an attack, that is an advantage...even if you make fun of it.
3. no, probably wont cut through his swords, but that wasn't the point i was making. and of course he could cut kratos' skin, he is not superman. how would he send it back? this is the ghost of sparta, pre gow 2 and 3, he doesn't have the golden fleas...at least thats what i got out of it.
4. im sorry...what? that makes no sense.
5. herc would die easily against seph, so that argument is moot.
ok, so im going to get a little further into seph's abilities. he has what i already stated. He is a perfect fighter, he learns extremely fast. cloud used omnislash on him once, the move that killed him, then when he was reborn, he countered it perfectly.
his speed is simply increadible, not just travel speed, but combat speed, he was able to keep cloud at bay while toying around with him, not even breathing heavily, while cloud was using 2 swords at once swinging as hard and as fast as he could. he has demonstrated cutting several pieces of estremely thick steel almost instantaneously on sister ray, and multiple times in ac he has cut multiple cuts in rapid succession.
OH! I don't remember where i read this, but you know those beams that came off his sword that cut sister ray? those are not his energy or anything like that, its his sword swing causing the air to move so quickly it heats up and becomes sharp...or something like that.
using only his mind, he killed a giant snake and stuck him on a spike, almost killed tsaang, along with a bunch of other soldiers (they were killed, not almost), manipulated cloud to bring him the black materia, and almost kill airith, brought cloud into an illusion to continue brain washing him, and actually killed airith with an astro projection. all of this was done with his mind while sleeping in the northern crater.
he has also shown tk, once where he held all of the group, and they felt like they were going to be torn apart, and once where he pulled the top of a sky scraper down.
so, it is obvious (to me anyway) that he is much faster, and much more skilled than kratos, and is at least close to kratos's strength. so, after throwing out the strength argument (because there is no way to prove that, it is just a theory), how could kratos fight against someone who is a better fighter than him, and is faster than him, let alone his psychic abilities.
Originally posted by menokokoro
[B]1. Zeus can not do what sephiroth can, at least he has never shown to be able to. and even if they were faster than seph, them being beaten does not prove that his speed wouldn't help in his fight, that only proves that it didn't help them2. yeah...getting out of range from an attack, that is an advantage...even if you make fun of it.
3. no, probably wont cut through his swords, but that wasn't the point i was making. and of course he could cut kratos' skin, he is not superman. how would he send it back? this is the ghost of sparta, pre gow 2 and 3, he doesn't have the golden fleas...at least thats what i got out of it.
4. im sorry...what? that makes no sense.
5. herc would die easily against seph, so that argument is moot.
1. He's already done better within 30 minutes of GoWIII. Ares already did better all the way back in GoWI.
2. My point is that it's not an advatage over Kratos when he had already defeated people with that ability, and at times in spite of it. Kratos' agility is more that capable of doing the normal stuff an FFVII character does.
3. If Zeus with the BoO (a character who >>> Seph with a weapon that >>> FFVII verse, and isn't even the strongest force in the GoW series) couldn't cut clean through a fighting Kratos, no one in FFVII will; Seph's the only one that could so much as come close. And also, people only go by specifications like that for as long as it takes for the OP's to lose interest in the particular settings. Even pre-GoWI Kratos still just so happened to have abilities virtually identical to the Golden Fleece. And FYI, the original specifications of this thread were that Kratos was in his GoWII incarnation. Comparing them in their composite primes is utter spite in Kratos' favor even if we barred his God form. An amped up thunderbolt from Zeus couldn't kill Kratos-or even faze him for very long-when it hit him dead-on, whereas Gaia's hand was nearly blown off, and that was Zeus in his human size.
4. 🙄
5. If the feats of his twelve labors in Greek Myth hold at least some of the relevence as they do in GoWIII (which is possibly based on dialogue), then chances are no.
ok, so im going to get a little further into seph's abilities. he has what i already stated. He is a perfect fighter, he learns extremely fast. cloud used omnislash on him once, the move that killed him, then when he was reborn, he countered it perfectly.
Learn your story telling first of all. The entire thing with Omnislash at the end of FFVII was just a mental battle of wills showing how Cloud can no longer be manipulated by Sephiroth. A perfect fighter by the standards of FFVII and a perfect fighter by GoW's standards are two totally different things, and most cases for what classifies as just a perfect fighter are Gods and those trained by them. If you're actually convinced by such typical JRPG traits as flashy-looking movements and spiffy effects (which makes up the majority of FFVII's characters' abilities), then that's something people like to call ignorance.
his speed is simply increadible, not just travel speed, but combat speed, he was able to keep cloud at bay while toying around with him, not even breathing heavily, while cloud was using 2 swords at once swinging as hard and as fast as he could. he has demonstrated cutting several pieces of estremely thick steel almost instantaneously on sister ray, and multiple times in ac he has cut multiple cuts in rapid succession.
First and foremost, his speed isn't anything anyone in GoW hasn't dealt with or displayed to high enough caliber to be considered equal or greater to. It's not so incredible that it puts him in a league of his own amongst anyone beyond the FFVII cast. Keeping a pissant like Cloud busy with little effort speaks just as much for how weak Cloud is beyond the typical skills expected of these characters. Any big-time Olympian in GoW is a bigger threat to FFVII than all the WEAPONs together. If you ever paid upwards of two minutes to God of War, Kratos has little to no problem attacking at high speeds with his weapons, and anything he can't cut, he's usually torn with his bare hands. Then there's the fact that the entire scene involving the Sister Ray cutting was a hologram to begin with. The last time Kratos was seen breathing heavily is when he stabbed himself through the chest with a sword that makes the Buster Sword and/or First Tsurugi look a cheap kitchen knife set.
OH! I don't remember where i read this, but you know those beams that came off his sword that cut sister ray? those are not his energy or anything like that, its his sword swing causing the air to move so quickly it heats up and becomes sharp...or something like that.
Uh, big friggin whoop? Kratos causes explosive shockwaves and flaming fissures just by driving his weapons into the ground.
using only his mind, he killed a giant snake and stuck him on a spike, almost killed tsaang, along with a bunch of other soldiers (they were killed, not almost), manipulated cloud to bring him the black materia, and almost kill airith, brought cloud into an illusion to continue brain washing him, and actually killed airith with an astro projection. all of this was done with his mind while sleeping in the northern crater.
First, there was no word on him ever using his mind to kill that Midgar Zolom serpent, and even then, Kratos had done the exact same thing to the Hydra, whom makes the Midgar Zolom look like a garden snake. These "astro" (Megaman's dog? The word your looking for is ASTRAL, for future reference) projections were also nothing more than people with Jenova's cells being manipulated by him from the northern crater. The only reason he ever managed to manipulte anyone is if they had Jenova's DNA in their bodies like himself; in other words, none of that jazz would help against Kratos. Olympians in God of War held order to the entire universe just by living. Guess what happened when they were killed off one-by-one...
he has also shown tk, once where he held all of the group, and they felt like they were going to be torn apart, and once where he pulled the top of a sky scraper down.
so, it is obvious (to me anyway) that he is much faster, and much more skilled than kratos, and is at least close to kratos's strength. so, after throwing out the strength argument (because there is no way to prove that, it is just a theory), how could kratos fight against someone who is a better fighter than him, and is faster than him, let alone his psychic abilities.
It's only 'obvious' to you because your knowledge is so clearly one-sided, and still misinformed within that side. Kratos fought and killed the very divine emboidiment of armed combat that he himself was trained by in battle, taking his place, and eventually laying waste to the rest of the Gods out of spite and vengeance towards them. This very God hhad psychic abilities that reduced an army of thousands into a field of mutilated corpses, and could create pocket dimensions on a whim, and this isn't even the strongest God I'm talking about. Don't even try to argue that anyone short of Sephiroth begins to compare to GoW's top-tiers, as Sephiroth only does by virtue of being the most powerful character in the FFVII universe. None of his abilites are anywhere beyond what Kratos is unaccustomed to dealing with, and until Sephiroth handles himself phyically anywhere close to the level of what Kratos did agaisnt Cronos, then I'm not about to say his strength's at least "close" to Kratos.
Originally posted by CosmicComet
^Not going to respond to all that as you know little about Kratos.Kratos wins via having every single advantage other than pure linear speed and rangey spells. Sephiroth has no means of hurting Kratos.
Just how good is Sephiroth in long range? I know he has TK...
Light of Dawn, Zeus' Fury, Typhon's Bane, Firebow & Army of Hades.
I think he's got long range pretty well covered. Given his godly accuracy, I doubt he'd miss hitting Sephiroth with the first four abilities. Army of Hades is auto-tracking, so it should have no problems as far as accuracy is concerned.
EDIT: Never mind, Kratos only has Typhon's Bane for LR. Should still be able to hit Sephiroth though, TB has an auto-tracking projectile, not to mention, Kratos' accuracy.
Originally posted by menokokoro
....really? please, enlighten me. I have played 1 and 2, and watched 3 played. what am i missing about kratos? I don't see these advantages you are talking about. the ONLY advantage I can think of is that he fights dirty.
Fights dirty? You do realize that in a fight for your life, there are no holds barred.
Also, Sephiroth is nowhere near as strong or durable as Kratos. 😐
Movement speed, yes, Sephiroth is probably faster, but Kratos is likely at least faster than Mach 1 with the Boots of Hermes. In combat, movement speed does not matter as much as combat speed, of which, Kratos is extremely fast.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
According to BloodRawEngine, this is supposed to be GoWII Kratos as per the OP. Or is it composite Kratos now?(@ BloodRawEngine: Dude, what handle would you prefer? BRE? FT? Would be kind of simpler than typing out your whole username 😛)
Well, that's what I think the OP said. But of course, that was almost four years ago; I don't think it really matters anymore. That, and I generally always compare characters to eachother in a composite sense, as per to avoid any particular bias.
(And BloodRaw will do just fine. If that's not short enough, then I'd prefer BRE between those two abbreviations--I no longer want to have even a remotely notable association with Cloud Strife, as his weapon in AC has long since shown to be the only thing about him that I find to be all that cool.)
EDIT: According to the OP, it's "Ghost of Sparta" Kratos referring to his status, not the game's timeframe (I was thinking of another thread way back that involved GoWII Kratos). Although being that this thread also uses Sephiroth with his "FFVII stats", I personally ain't bothering atm, being that throughout FFVII, Seph was in a stasis of sorts, except for flashbacks and Crisis Core (the latter of which makes this spite in the favor of Kratos within any timeframe in which he was a servant to the Gods).
I just noticed.
Originally posted by Major Snafu
I'm just using the Advent Children Sephy for apprarance only. His stats come from the time he is one of the good guys (during Cloud's flashback scene in Kalm).And they are Riduculously high.
Poor Sephy lost it at here. Safer Sephiroth would win but since FF stats only refers to Seph as a good guy, and Advent Children Sephy doesn't do magic because he's too cool for it. Kratos rips him limb from limb, easily at that.
Edit: Supernova? awesome
Originally posted by CosmicComet
Kratos has reacted to things faster than Sephiroth.Also Supernova is completely featless and thus useless. I assume we aren't using Safer Sephiroth anyway.
Really? Show me them. Keeping in mind that Sephiroth can move at 2 km\s.
It doesn't need a feat, it has been stated by the creators to have the power of an expanding star! I don't see why people don't understand this, can someone enlighten me?
The weakest version of Sephiroth created Supernova, so it makes no difference if it was Safer or not.
Originally posted by NemeBro
To come back he needed a pre-existing body,
Which he can make easily. As you can see with SHM (He made them btw).
Originally posted by NemeBro
the SHM due to their relationship with Jenova, and he needed Jenova's super awesome cells to be exposed to one of them?
Technically Sephiroth could have taken over them completely. The only thing that injestion of jenova did was allow Kadaj passive mind read, getting the image of Sephiroth from Cloud. Allowing Sephiroth to bring himself (So he looked like who he was) into being!
Originally posted by NemeBro
Why are you responding to such an out of date post by the way? I mean you ever consider that I either no longer think these or that God of War 3 changed things?
It was there, it was stupid, so I responded. 🙄
Originally posted by NemeBro
Gtfo.
If everyone did as you said you would be the only person on this board.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Lulz. Firstly, if Kratos had access to the Loom of Fate, and Sephiroth had his own string, his life is literally in Kratos' hands.
This takes place in Nibelheim...Not to mention it would take Kratos a lot of time to find Sephiroths thread and in that time...well Kratos would have no head.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Kratos' basic attacks take roughly 30 microseconds (no, not gameplay time, 'canon' time - but this concept might be completely beyond someone of your level).
Also, before I take this at face value, like so many of you don't take Supernova at face value even though I have statements from the creators, where is this stated?
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
They're roughly as fast as a single lightning stroke takes to appear and disappear, which is on average, 30 microseconds.
Where did you get this information? (average time of lightning strike)
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Supernova's nothing more than an over-hyped standard explosion. It won't work on Kratos.
I ain't over-hyping anything.
Creators have stated it to be as powerful as an expanding star. Kratos cannot tank that.
Originally posted by BloodRawEngine
If Sephiroth could've come back from any source, it wouldn't have taken Kadaj to absorb the remains of Jenova in the first place.
Sephiroth wasn't coming back until he had an image of himself to create.
Originally posted by BloodRawEngine
Kadaj was never anything more than just a premature form of Sephiroth
True, and at any time Sephiroth could have completely taken over him. Or any of the things he created from NL.
Originally posted by BloodRawEngine
who's entire PURPOSE was to complete himself into Sephiroth's new body.
No, his whole purpose was to get Jenova and keep it safe.
Originally posted by BloodRawEngine
Last I checked, that's the whole freakin' concept of the Reunion process; Sephiroth simply became the center of it because the process had ultimately made him the newest stage in Jenova's evolution.
The reunion is Jenova cells coming back together. Sephiroth was at the center of it because he was the one orchestrating it, Sephiroth was controlling the SHM. If Sephiroth rememebered what he looked like he could have just created his own image instead of three he found in the lifestream.
Originally posted by BloodRawEngine
The same way the Sisters of Fate did, controlling the thread of his life, or just cutting it, thus ending his life like that. The only counter argument against that is that it may seem like a no-limits fallacy, but so is saying that Sephiroth can come back from any source with just a trace of Jenova's DNA.
Yeah totally, Kratos can get Sephiroths thread and sever it before anything happens, get real. No, there is proof of Sephiroth coming back from a cell, but no proof Sephiroth is even included in some other universes timeline.
More to come.
Originally posted by BloodRawEngine
So could 80% of the Gods Kratos fought and killed through means that sent them from smirking to being lucky to still have their faces. Poseidon in the first ten minutes of GoWIII alone has already out-sped Sephiroth and a fair majority of FFVII's fighters,
The gods Kratos has killed is much much bigger than him, to hit one you could blindly throw a stone. Whereas Kratos would actually need to aim to hit Sephiroth.
Why? What speed was Poseidon moving at?
Originally posted by BloodRawEngine
and he isn't even the strongest nor fastest of the Gods. Secondly, what clip are you speaking of, unless you're referring to the attacks in the one I posted?
The killing Zeus one. Those were the attacks I was referring to.
Originally posted by BloodRawEngine
Because it's moot given that Kratos is virtually invulnerable in that scene. Like I said, that was merely the most basic jist of what could happen. That video isn't the only showing of that amp technically speaking.
Mmm, well that is one cinematic of Kratos attacking and it was very slow.
Originally posted by BloodRawEngine
Has no concrete use. Hell, Kratos brought the sun back into the sky at one point.
By standing in it? Show me a feat of durability that shows he would survive a magical explosion with the power of an expanding star. Or something canon that at least hints to it.
Just to clarify, the Sephiroth op is referring to is Pre-Nib, not the reviving Sephiroth.
Ugh. I'm really too damn lazy to respond to all this, but I feel like I need to anyway. I'll do it later.
I'll just say that there is no damn 'developer statement' that supernova has the power of an expanding sun. This fool gave a link that gave a small description of the visuals of the move itself. That's not canon. Its obvious through your eyes alone as it destroys the same damn planets everytime he casts it. It's a featless illusionary move in a single battle.
You won't find a statement from Nomura
talking about how powerful the move actually is.
Originally posted by K1ll3r
This takes place in Nibelheim...Not to mention it would take Kratos a lot of time to find Sephiroths thread and in that time...well Kratos would have no head.
Oh, so Sephiroth, too can travel to the Loom Chamber at will upon taking it over? Get real. It takes Kratos less than a few minutes to find his thread when he's in it.
I ain't over-hyping anything.Creators have stated it to be as powerful as an expanding star. Kratos cannot tank that.
Did they mention the scale? Time it takes? Or at the very least, when he himself was capable of actually using it beyond Safer Sephiroth? I think that's where the whole overhyping thing comes from.
Sephiroth wasn't coming back until he had an image of himself to create.
Which, combined with the remaining Jenova Cells, is what he needed in the first place.
True, and at any time Sephiroth could have completely taken over him. Or any of the things he created from NL.
Yeah, what he created, not anything from anywhere like what someone seemed to imply.
No, his whole purpose was to get Jenova and keep it safe.
Says even less about his use, frankly
The reunion is Jenova cells coming back together. Sephiroth was at the center of it because he was the one orchestrating it, Sephiroth was controlling the SHM. If Sephiroth rememebered what he looked like he could have just created his own image instead of three he found in the lifestream.
Aside from the things I already said being reiterated, not much else spoken here makes a difference due to exactly what I had already said.
Yeah totally, Kratos can get Sephiroths thread and sever it before anything happens, get real. No, there is proof of Sephiroth coming back from a cell, but no proof Sephiroth is even included in some other universes timeline.
Yes he could, technically speaking. Until Sephiroth also takes full control of the Loom Chamber and shows implication that he can return to it at will, then well, NO U. And a box of extract mixed with a larval form is not "coming back from a cell".
Originally posted by K1ll3r
The gods Kratos has killed is much much bigger than him, to hit one you could blindly throw a stone. Whereas Kratos would actually need to aim to hit Sephiroth.
Get your facts straight first off. Less than half the Gods Kratos fought were in a significantly larger form than Kratos. That includes Zeus who fought him at normal humanly size.
Why? What speed was Poseidon moving at?
Above Mach 1 at the very least, very clearly breaking the sound barrier, and subsequently knocking a Titan off the mountain by flying straight through it, and very quickly rising from the sea in his watery construct.
The killing Zeus one. Those were the attacks I was referring to.Mmm, well that is one cinematic of Kratos attacking and it was very slow.
Speaks more for what it took to kill Zeus while wielding that power, where that which killed everyone before him could not. As in, not much. And like I said, that very scene has Kratos virtually invulnerable; let Zeus attack and he bounces right off. If I haven't said it yet, I'll say now that it isn't the only time he ever used that power. It's the exact same power that made him powerful enough to go toe-to-toe with Ares and kill him.
By standing in it? Show me a feat of durability that shows he would survive a magical explosion with the power of an expanding star. Or something canon that at least hints to it.
Presumably, upon riding the Sun Chariot with it. And this very power was stated at least on occasion to be powerful enough to destroy the world if misused, and it's not even the greatest power in the series (that's the very power that Kratos killed Ares and eventually Zeus with, which also brought forth the beginnings of rebuilding the decimated world).
Just to clarify, the Sephiroth op is referring to is Pre-Nib, not the reviving Sephiroth.
I'm using the latter for Seph's own sake. This is spite otherwise by the OP's specifications.
Originally posted by CosmicComet
Still Sephiroth can control the weather it seems, at least its hinted at in Advent Children.
Technically, he just brought the NL over the sky around Edge city and Midgar's remains. Not bad, but not exactly all-out weather control.