Originally posted by CosmicComet
I'll just say that there is no damn 'developer statement' that supernova has the power of an expanding sun. -snip- irrelevant gibberings
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
That's what he's using as a Creator's statement? 😐
The book that these translations came from was made by the developers (Sqaure Enix). If you don't believe the translators then go ahead and buy the book and translate it yourself. If you also know about FF7 summons and how Supernova is the same (Ultimania) you would probably understand it more.
Originally posted by BloodRawEngine
Link to statements plox.
Don't go to the website that I link as that is apparently not good enough, buy Crisis Core: The Complete Guide. In the keywords section. It isn't in English though so have fun, also buy Crisis Core Ultimania, Supernova is explained in there as well. (The link should be somewhere above this post if you still want it.)
Originally posted by BloodRawEngine
Did they mention the scale? Time it takes? Or at the very least, when he himself was capable of actually using it beyond Safer Sephiroth? I think that's where the whole overhyping thing comes from.
What do you mean scale?
No, there are several different renditions though, between 3 seconds to several minutes, use whatever one you want. He made the spell, it is beyond materia requirements, it is his creation and he created it Pre-Nib. I like to use the original Japanese version, which takes ~7 seconds, not the retarded US version where you can go make a sandwhich whenever Sephiroth does it.
I don't think so, I think people just don't believe Supernova is canon, even though it's an ability he has.
Originally posted by CosmicComet
I didn't do any exact calculations for Poseidon's flight speed, but we do know titan heights, Stig Asmussen said Cronos is over 1600 feet tall, and we know that titans are all pretty much the same size. That's about 1/3 of a mile. If I had to guess, Poseidon was coming down from 5 maybe 6 miles above where that titan was, seeing as from that distance one still couldn't see the top of Mount Olympus at all. He took about 6 seconds to hit the titan. That's a possible mile a second top speed/1.6km/sec. Zeus being far more powerful than Poseidon likely flies much faster, in fact considering his God of War 2 flying feat, he does.
Originally posted by Nemesis X
He descended down so fast, not only did he break the sound barrier but he also went through a Titan (made of stone I might add) like a bullet through a person.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Accelerates from 0 to Above Mach 1 in an instant.
He then likely slows down, and breaks the Sound Barrier again with more acceleration.
None of this shows Poseidon being faster than Sephiroth, nor does it show how Kratos reacted to this speed. Maybe show me the clip you are referring to. I went searching and couldn't find any bosses moving faster than Sephiroth with Kratos reacting to them. I found that Zeus flying feat, Kratos has 0 time to react, he gets speed blitzed. Only when he is in the air does he have the presence of mind to do anything.
Originally posted by CosmicComet
Not even the most of it. Kratos reacts to and defeats Charon who looks like he's teleporting when he's actually just casually walking. By pulling up the Sun Shield he was able to block a massive near point blank explosion from a dying persephone--which is a high-end hypersonic reaction feat considering even minor in comparison C4 explosions are well over 20 times faster than sound--. And of course he can block lightning from Zeus, not to mention Zeus himself can teleport, fly, transform into lightning and produce up to 8 dopplegangers to attack at once.
I saw Charon move about 7 metres in 0.3 – 0.5 seconds in a cinematic. Nothing compared to the speed Sephiroth has shown in Crisis Core. I only saw Charon in one clip though so maybe there are others you can show me.
Originally posted by BloodRawEngine
Above Mach 1 at the very least, very clearly breaking the sound barrier, and subsequently knocking a Titan off the mountain by flying straight through it, and very quickly rising from the sea in his watery construct.
Mach 1 isn't as fast as Sephiroth. Mach 5/6 would be closer to pre-Nib.
Originally posted by CosmicComet
It's pretty much impossible for Sephiroth to blitz Kratos. It's pretty much impossible for Sephiroth to blitz Kratos.
Not based on everything that has been stated or shown in this thread.
Originally posted by BloodRawEngine
Get your facts straight first off. Less than half the Gods Kratos fought were in a significantly larger form than Kratos. That includes Zeus who fought him at normal humanly size.
Fair enough.
Originally posted by BloodRawEngine
Presumably, upon riding the Sun Chariot with it. And this very power was stated at least on occasion to be powerful enough to destroy the world if misused, and it's not even the greatest power in the series (that's the very power that Kratos killed Ares and eventually Zeus with, which also brought forth the beginnings of rebuilding the decimated world).
I don't understand, did he tank an expanding star or not? That is the whole point of this, you were trying to say he could because he pulled a sun with a chariot or something.
Originally posted by BloodRawEngine
I'm using the latter for Seph's own sake. This is spite otherwise by the OP's specifications.
Lulz, it isn't yet spite. Nothing has shown Kratos to be able to keep up with Sephiroth. If you made it reviving Sephiroth, Kratos would find himself in illusions with his wife, knowing they were illusions but unable to escape them. Sephiroth would show him killing his wife again for funnies, he would also morph into his wife and stab him just as the illusion faded, laughing maniacally. Or just knock Kratos out and inject him with Jenova cells.
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
I really want to know how Sephiroth can hurt Kratos. To me that's still a mystery.Supernova is still just a game mechanic in my eyes. Otherwise it'd be in the same category as Sin's Giga Gravition or Kuja's Ultima.
Kratos wins, unless Sephiroth has Meteor.
Because Kratos gets stabbed all the time, with hardly any force going into the swords that stab him. Pre-nib Sephiroth kills massive dragons in one hit, destroys massive cannons with beams created from his blade and destroys helicopters with a swipe of his blade (BC).
You don't know what a game mechanic is, a game mechanic is something like mana or the materia linking system, turn based attacks or button combos, something that makes game play fun or possible.
Sephiroth doesn't have meteor pre-Nib.
Originally posted by BloodRawEngine
Oh, so Sephiroth, too can travel to the Loom Chamber at will upon taking it over? Get real. It takes Kratos less than a few minutes to find his thread when he's in it.
Yeah, 'cause the loom has people from other universes \ dimensions, however this works.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
2 km/s? Wow, that's (relatively speaking of course) a sloth's level of speed compared to what Kratos has reacted to.
We shall see.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
-snip-I'll give you three guesses as to what Zeus tosses at his enemies, Kratos included.
Magical lightning bolts?
Seriously, all of the lightning bolts I have seen from Zeus(Cinematic) in GoW were slow as hell things with big wind-ups to release them. Maybe you should show me which ones you are talking about and where/how Kratos reacts to them.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Everything after "Nibelheim..." is incorrect.-snip-
All of which is null, the loom doesn't have people from different universes \ dimensions, Kratos would just be running away from Sephiroth.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
-snip-
I cross-referenced one of Kratos' basic strikes with a lightning bolt that occurs in the background of one of Kratos' fights in GoWIII (it has only one flash). They match-up. In fact, I think the basic strike might be a tad faster. I'll have to recheck. .
Hardly scientific.
Also:
“lightning flash is composed of a series of strokes with an average of about four. The length and duration of each lightning stroke vary, but typically average about 30 microseconds.”
That is referring to a stroke of a lightning flash/bolt, not the entire thing which I think is what you believe.
Also is this within game play or in a cinematic? Try timing it with a stopwatch, taking into account input lag and human error, that would be more appropriate. A lightning bolt would be more around 0.25 seconds or something, just based on my own observations, not timing.
Originally posted by BloodRawEngine
Which, combined with the remaining Jenova Cells, is what he needed in the first place.
Yeah, but he doesn't need Kadaj to eat them to have the Jenova cells, he is able to control them outright as shown in the original game. He even took over Jenova while he was 'dead'.
Originally posted by BloodRawEngine
Yeah, what he created, not anything from anywhere like what someone seemed to imply.
Well if they have Jenova cells in them, he can control them quite easily. But other than that the only way he really controls people is through illusions \ mind raping.
Originally posted by BloodRawEngine
And a box of extract mixed with a larval form is not "coming back from a cell".
This is getting way off-topic, but in the original game he regenerated from a cell, took him a few days though, mostly because he was busy absorbing the Knowledge of the Ancients and forcing all Jenova cells into a reunion (to make him even more powerful beyond just absorption of the lifestream).
Originally posted by BloodRawEngine
Speaks more for what it took to kill Zeus while wielding that power, where that which killed everyone before him could not. As in, not much. And like I said, that very scene has Kratos virtually invulnerable; let Zeus attack and he bounces right off. If I haven't said it yet, I'll say now that it isn't the only time he ever used that power. It's the exact same power that made him powerful enough to go toe-to-toe with Ares and kill him.
Seems to me it was more of a weird cinematic gameplay sequence that had to end in only one way, but whatever. Also his attacks were insanely slow in that clip.
I apologise if I have the wrong person quoted, I tried to keep it all in little sections, but as time wore on it was taking too much time and effort so...whatever. Have fun 😄
Originally posted by K1ll3r
Because Kratos gets stabbed all the time, with hardly any force going into the swords that stab him. Pre-nib Sephiroth kills massive dragons in one hit, destroys massive cannons with beams created from his blade and destroys helicopters with a swipe of his blade (BC).You don't know what a game mechanic is, a game mechanic is something like mana or the materia linking system, turn based attacks or button combos, something that makes game play fun or possible.
Sephiroth doesn't have meteor pre-Nib.
Okay so Kratos isn't invulnerable, still have no idea how Sephiroth is suppose to kill him. Kratos has killed things that make FF monsters look like ants, resisted being crushed by Atlas, and defeated Hercules.
Supernova is just like any other limit break or special move such as Omni-slash or Lionheart. It hasn't done anything or even ben shown outside of gameplay. Now if it could destroy stuff like Sin's gravity magic or Kuja's Ultima outside of gameplay, then I'll accept it.
If this is Pre-Nih Sephiroth then he definitely loses. No meteor, no Geostigma,no Safer form; that's kind of bad.
Lol I'm too lazy to respond to this shit because its too damn easy a thread.
Please let someone else pick up the slack. Anyway, Kratos has been impaled by others merely twice. Both times by people hundreds of thousands of times stronger than Sephy at minimum. Ares in full God size throwing a sharpened pillar at mach 5 + and Zeus stabbing Kratos with the BoO, a planet scaping sword wielded by a guy with equivalent strength of kratos, who himself can resist being crushed by titans with the strength to hold up a mountain or even the upper crust of the world.
I noticed he's only trying to refute bits and pieces of posts as well. Sephiroth is an inferior opponent, flat out.
Working backwards on this one.
Originally posted by K1ll3r
Yeah, but he doesn't need Kadaj to eat them to have the Jenova cells, he is able to control them outright as shown in the original game. He even took over Jenova while he was 'dead'.
That's because his death in that instance (if it's the Mako reactor scene you're talking about) is really only speaking physically; He was merged with Jenova when he "died" having become the dominant persona which, to my recollection, was what began him becoming the next evolutionary stage of Jenova.
Well if they have Jenova cells in them, he can control them quite easily. But other than that the only way he really controls people is through illusions \ mind raping.
That's kind of my point first off, and it's the only reason he's ever done anything of the sort to anyone, being that Cloud is mainly the only one he's ever done anything to as far as mind-rape is concernced. Illusions, I won't hold against you, but Kratos has his experiences in being "mind raped" and illusion'd as well. He's prevailed agianst his enemies on any ground Cloud has against Sephiroth aside from the instances where Seph took advantage of Cloud's imnd in scnearios such as when he forced Cloud to give him the Black Materia, but both instances were due solely to Cloud's link to Jenova as well, which is also the only reason he ever controlled anyone's mind for the reunion. Geostigma was just a glorified Plagas.
This is getting way off-topic, but in the original game he regenerated from a cell, took him a few days though, mostly because he was busy absorbing the Knowledge of the Ancients and forcing all Jenova cells into a reunion (to make him even more powerful beyond just absorption of the lifestream).
If you're referring to what I think you are, then that's simply false, aside from the fact that his physical body was plainly visible in stasis and there was no implication that he was reduced to a cellular level prior to that reveal.
Seems to me it was more of a weird cinematic gameplay sequence that had to end in only one way, but whatever. Also his attacks were insanely slow in that clip.
Originally posted by BloodRawEngine
Speaks more for what it took to kill Zeus while wielding that power, where that which killed everyone before him could not. As in, not much. And like I said, that very scene has Kratos virtually invulnerable; let Zeus attack and he bounces right off. If I haven't said it yet, I'll say now that it isn't the only time he ever used that power. It's the exact same power that made him powerful enough to go toe-to-toe with Ares and kill him.
I apologise if I have the wrong person quoted, I tried to keep it all in little sections, but as time wore on it was taking too much time and effort so...whatever.
Well for one, I didn't type:
Originally posted by BloodRawEngine
Link to statements plox.
I don't say plox
Originally posted by K1ll3r
What do you mean scale?
By scale I mean it's full destructive capability in terms of range, or effectiveness.
None of this shows Poseidon being faster than Sephiroth, nor does it show how Kratos reacted to this speed. Maybe show me the clip you are referring to. I went searching and couldn't find any bosses moving faster than Sephiroth with Kratos reacting to them. I found that Zeus flying feat, Kratos has 0 time to react, he gets speed blitzed. Only when he is in the air does he have the presence of mind to do anything.
It shows Poseidon performing a feat of speed better than what Sephiroth shows, and subsequently a better feat of strength. It really kinda is that simple.
I saw Charon move about 7 metres in 0.3 – 0.5 seconds in a cinematic. Nothing compared to the speed Sephiroth has shown in Crisis Core. I only saw Charon in one clip though so maybe there are others you can show me.
Sephiroth has next to no feats od speed in Crisis Core from my recollection. Even in the boss fight his teleporting is shit-slow.
Mach 1 isn't as fast as Sephiroth. Mach 5/6 would be closer to pre-Nib.
😆 When he lacks such showings even post-nib? Refer to my above statements.
Not based on everything that has been stated or shown in this thread.
As in nothing that hasn't been refuted or proven to be based on misinformation and rendered moot? 😐
Lulz, it isn't yet spite. Nothing has shown Kratos to be able to keep up with Sephiroth. If you made it reviving Sephiroth, Kratos would find himself in illusions with his wife, knowing they were illusions but unable to escape them. Sephiroth would show him killing his wife again for funnies, he would also morph into his wife and stab him just as the illusion faded, laughing maniacally. Or just knock Kratos out and inject him with Jenova cells.
In their composites, it's spite even WITH Reviving Sephiroth; Seph has no showings of taking such advantage of anyone who doesn't have Jenova's cells in them, and even beyond that, Kratos has, like I said, experienced such illusions before, has overcome them, and by GoWIII's end, had overcome pretty much any such vulnerability. That, and based on showings of the likes of Ares, whom he killed and replaced, Sephiroth will be lucky to poke Kratos' toe before he's sucked into a hand-made pocket dimension.
Because Kratos gets stabbed all the time, with hardly any force going into the swords that stab him. Pre-nib Sephiroth kills massive dragons in one hit, destroys massive cannons with beams created from his blade and destroys helicopters with a swipe of his blade (BC).
lolno. He's been stabbed only twice canonically, both times with the force from characters who rival if not surpass his strength, one of the cases being when he was already in a severely weakned and injured state (and yet he still managed to hold off Zeus for a few seconds, and by the time this scenario came back in GoWIII, he overpowered Zeus from this same position). Kratos has one-shotted beings that would leave "massive dragons" lucky to be made their pets. His strength has shown to be enough to fight off beings whose hands are bigger than some FFVII summons when they tried to smash him full force like a bug, and a swipe of Kratos' sword can reduce an entire army into a field of bloody piles of armor.
All of which is null, the loom doesn't have people from different universes \ dimensions, Kratos would just be running away from Sephiroth.
And Sephiroth doesn't have any displayed control over people from such different universes/dimensions, much less anyone without Jenova's cells, which is the point I'm getting at; either statement is by potential a no limits fallacy.
I joined this site JUST to say something here, because clearly you people who say kratos would be beaten are MISSING something...obviously.
Kratos is the new god of war. And, as a mortal (In God Of War III) and DEMIgod (By birth), he killed Zeus (aka his father and the king of the gods)
Kratos' weaponry are all DIVINE weaponry...Sephiroth's kitana is man made. It couldnt cut through clouds buster sword, so what makes you think that it could cut through something that a GOD made? On that point, Kratos has MORE weaponry then sephiroth too...All sephiroth has is his sword, ego, and overconfidence.
Looking at it from a psychological aspect. Sephiroth TOYS with his opponents and doesnt really kill them (case and point is, is when he fought Cloud in FFVII and ACC...Cloud came back after magically gaining confidence and a bigger pair of balls and owned him in one shot. KRATOS on the other hand just kills you and moves on. He doesnt toy with his opponents. He gets the job done. Fast. Easy. Brutally. He doesnt care who you are, or what your purpose is...If you are in his way, you are going to die.
And i saw your comments about Sephiroth battling Genesis in CC, but we all know Genesis is a pussy compared to Sephiroth, firstly....SECONDLY, Kratos has The Golden Fleece, which can block anything...so... Sephiroth can use all the sword strikes and magic beams all he wants, but its not going to get past the Fleece (which is divine weaponry). Even if this isnt GoW III Kratos, he can still deflect attacks and counter by timing his moves properly with his Blades of Chaos / Athena / Exile...so....yeah...
Sephiroth tried for the entirety of FFVII to try and become a God, and failed all the while getting his ass kicked by an imperfect clone of himself. (Cloud) ... Kratos SUCCEEDED in becoming a God, and even though was dooped into giving up his godhood by putting all his power into the blade of olympus, defied hades' grasp ( 4 times) and came back and killed the sisters of fate, gaia, thanatos, (in Ghost of Sparta) AND Ares (being a normal human at the time).
Kratos' acheivements FAR outweigh Sephiroth's...Infact, all sephiroth has done is FAIL a bunch of times at trying to do something...So...you can retort with all that gay FFVII epic emo shit all you want, point is, is that Kratos is bigger, Badder, more brutal, and more pissed off than any video game character anybody has ever created. Hes going to take the blade of olympus, and **** that silver haired ****** in the ass until he turns around and says "mamma likey" ....
Kratos wins....END OF STORY.
Sephiroth flies very high and starts spamming Blade-Beams until Kratos is dead.
Or Sephiroth turns intangible and laughs at Kratos' pathetic attempts to hit him, before picking Kratos up with telekinesis and throwing him far away(lol), or just ripping off Kratos' head with it.
Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.
Sephiroth cannot damage Kratos with any of his abilities. Certainly not those mentioned at least. Kratos on the other hand has dealt with instangibal beings before and I am pretty sure his magic would strike Sephiroth even if his blades cannot.
(the hooks of hades would probably devour him just like any other).