So after all that waffle and the massive personal attack detraction, you still have no on panel reference or depiction of Jamie Braddock creating a universe. 🙁
Your only argument is that because Jamie Braddock turned some stars within his reality warp into snowflakes then that means he created that entire universe. 🤨
Supposition. Your point isnt stated or depicted anywhere on panel. You've seen Jamie mess around with some stars, you've made some crazy assumptions and now youre posting them here as if theyre fact. 👇
Within a reality warp, the laws of SPACE and time need not apply. They are what the reality warper determines. Outside of a reality warp where a warpers influence does not extend and the laws of space/time are still in place, the warped area could be the size of a telephone box. Inside that reality warp the space could be limitless, defined only by the warpers imagination.
Observe.
The outside of the M'kraan crystal where the laws of space/time apply:
Notice the relative size of the people
Inside the crystal where space/time doesnt apply:
An endless city
Once again.
Outside:
Inside:
As far as was illustrated on panel Jamie created a city size warp within an alternate reality and within that alternate reality he created an avatar of himself to fight Excalibur.
Within his city sized warp, space and time were what Jamie made them. In his warp he turned stars into snowflakes and he turned off sound. Impressive, outside of that warp none of that happened.
When Jamie was taken away from his alternate reality games, what disappeared, the universe? the planet?
Nope. Just the city Excalibur were being attacked in and the avatar Jamie created.
And yet you would credibly try and tell us Jamie created that universe?
Wheres your proof? 😖hifty:
As for you Wanda comments they have already been handled previously. I brought new evidence forward and you are combatting that with reposts.
1) Realities CAN be referred to as Earth*** or they can be referred to as reality***, its down to the writers discretion. However sometimes the Earth*** reference is used specifically to refer to the planet itself.
On panel Heather says she knows who warped Earth 616.
If this was the only reference given then no side could claim victory as the reference is ambiguous, it could mean either the planet within 616 or it could mean the universe, however Heather tells us what context she meant by going on to say it was Scarlet Witch and that she warped THE WORLD.
In the set of scans above, Heathers multiversal scanners take information from reality and they tell her what has happened. They talk of ONE change at that point and that is Wanda bringing about House of M on Planet Earth. That is ALL that Wanda changed up until that point.
As Heather speaks we see Wanda changing reality once again (therefore for the SECOND time). You see the mutant Beak and Angel caught up in Wandas reality alteration. The issue ends.
Next issue, you see that the change we saw at the end of the prevbious issue was the "No More Mutants Change", therefore another GLOBAL change. Beak is now human, so are some of his previously mutant babies:
No rants. No speculation. Can you show me whereabouts on panel your ALLEGED third change occurred? What happened in this third change YOU describe and once again, WHERE ON PANEL is this third change detailed?
Heathers scanners analysed reality 616 and told us about the HOM reality creation ON THE PLANET. Then as the issue was closing we saw the "No more mutants" change occurring, with the subsequent Exiles issue showing us the result.
The issue summary of Exiles 72 summarizes previous issues and talks of how Wanda warped EARTH 616 to create HOM and then talks of how at the end of the previous issue (where the previous scans are from) Wanda warped EARTH 616 again (so for the second time). Where is the third change?!!!
The "No more mutants" change was the last reality warp Wanda brought about and that was a global change to rid the world of mutants.
It was focused on mutants and was to spite her father, it had nothing to do with anything but Earth.
The intro page to the House of M title, the main title that dealt directly with Wanda and her reality warp talks of how "the WORLD went white" when Wanda brought about the HOM reality and no mention of any other change whatsoever is made until it refers to the "No more mutants" change where once again it states "the WORLD went white"
Heres Hank Pym talking about the GLOBAL effects of the NO more mutants change:
In line with the above, once again please remember how Roma said the HOM conversion was a GLOBAL alteration and the Eye of Agamotto scanned the multiverse and stated plain as day that ALL of Wandas changes were GLOBAL. I’ll quote myself:
Originally posted by GalacticStormIn the What If series, it features the Watcher of 616 chronicling events across the multiverse which diverge from 616.
In the recent What If featuring the Disassembled Avengers, the Beast spearheads a plan to stop Wandas rampage. In this reality, she is defeated before she gets to say "No More mutants". At the end, when she is killed (along with Cap America who had secretly lost his mind and was in on the whole thing) Dr Strange uses the eye of Agamotto to scan all other realities to see what could have been if Beast hadnt intervened:
If Beast hadnt intervened, then Wandas rampage would have come to an end without the need for Wanda or Caps death (and therefore would have been in line with what happened in 616)
The key points are that the Eye Of Agamotto, (which scans across the multiverse) discovers that
a) in all other(other than this "What If" therefore including 616) realities it was just a peaceful WORLD that Pietro convinced Wanda to create.
b) In all other realities her subsequent reality warping just ridded the world of the mutant gene
c) In all other realities, the transformations were GLOBAL
"In ALL other realities her GLOBAL transformations"
You have the Eye of Agamotto scanning across the multiverse and determining that in all other realities the Scarlet Witch JUST warped the world to create House of M and that ALL her changes in ALL other realities were GLOBAL.
That all fits together nicely.
So just to summarize, NOWHERE on panel are any changes to reality made directly by Wanda with the exception of the GLOBAL conversion to the HOM reality and the No more mutants change. Where is this fabled third and allegedly universal change you talk about Mr Master.
No rants. Just show us on panel where the third change is shown happening in 616 and where it’s talked about. The conversion to HOM was the first, the No more mutants change was the last. Both of those were depicted and discussed in detail on panel. Why would they omit a supposedly universal change?
Its stated point blank on panel that ALL of Wandas transformations were GLOBAL.
On top of that the Chaos Wave is NOT said to be Wandas creation but instead the RESULT of Wandas transformation. (The creation of the HOM reality on earth)
Originally posted by GalacticStormRoma says theres a trans temporal tsunami and then goes on to say [B]APPARENTLY
there was an alteration:apparently
A adverb
1 obviously, evidently, manifestly, patently, apparently, plainlyhttp://www.wordreference.com/definition/apparently
i.e theres a trans temporal tsunami, so quite clearly there has been an alteration thats breached the dimensional walls.
Romas said she couldnt ascertain the cause of the global alteration. She said nothing about not knowing what caused the wave. She says the wave was clearly caused by the alteration breaching the dimensional walls.
[/B]
You can post as many bio scans as you want of the Chaos Wave being referred to as Wandas warp because it was. She was responsible for it, but she never created it directly and powered it on its path of destruction. Her actions were teh catalyst for it. BIG difference.
Originally posted by Mr MasterOther then that claim made about Vangaard being Omniversal, did he actually display anything better then Multiversal feats?
[B]Vangaard is an Omniversal Power!"The Continuum within which you reside has been deemed redundant,
and shall be excised from the Omniversal Template by Vangaard"
............................................................................................
Here Huntara takes her psionic Scythe that can open inter-Dimensional portals,
to strike Vangaard on ALL Planes:
Instead she sees how he came to be:
............................................................................................
Huntara says,
"A new purpose was embraced, to transcend the Omniversal Constant,
voyage from Reality to Reality as harbinger of the Void,
and eliminate those Timelines deemed redundant"
"We are undone,
the Entity ... exists along too many Planes"
"We must flee"
............................................................................................
Here Psi-Lord or adult Franklin Richards is able to shut off the limit inhibitor in his Armour,
he merges with his younger self, and two other team mates,
coupled with the release of his potential:
"Our limitations are history"
............................................................................................
Psi-Lord actually creates a mini-Big Bang of Anti-Matter energy,
and attacks Vagaard with it:
"brace yourselves for the Big Bang"
............................................................................................
That Universe explodes:
Inconceivable ... Space/Time itself has been torn asunder by the resulting cataclysm,
young Richards' powers are vast"
continues in the next post .... [/B]
Because I don't see any.. 😕
Vangaard saying he is going to erase a timeline from the omniversal template doesnt make him an omniversal power.
Everything is in the omniverse, so if Galactus went and destroyed a universe, if he was pompous enough he could say the same thing. All that line means is that hes going to destroy a timeline from the omniverse.
He operates across the omniverse, that doesnt make his power omniversal. Roma operates across the omniverse and yet she has no feats of personal power beyond a Watcher.
The only being with truly omniversal power is the supreme being.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
So after all that waffle and the massive personal attack detraction, you still have no on panel reference or depiction of Jamie Braddock creating a universe.Your only argument is that because Jamie Braddock turned some stars within his reality warp into snowflakes then that means he created that entire universe.
Supposition. Your point isnt stated or depicted anywhere on panel. You've seen Jamie mess around with some stars, you've made some crazy assumptions and now youre posting them here as if theyre fact. 👇
Within a reality warp, the laws of [B]SPACE
and time need not apply. They are what the reality warper determines. Outside of a reality warp where a warpers influence does not extend and the laws of space/time are still in place, the warped area could be the size of a telephone box. Inside that reality warp the space could be limitless, defined only by the warpers imagination.As far as was illustrated on panel Jamie created a city size warp within an alternate reality and within that alternate reality he created an avatar of himself to fight Excalibur.
Within his city sized warp, space and time were what Jamie made them. In his warp he turned stars into snowflakes and he turned off sound. Impressive, outside of that warp none of that happened.
When Jamie was taken away from his alternate reality games, what disappeared, the universe? the planet? [/B]
Handled.
Jamie created that Alternate Universe and that Alternate Jamie,
anyone who actually reads the issue unbiasedly would know that.
Here Kitty Pride is able to jump from the Universe Earth-616 to Jamie's Alternate Reality,
and back to 616,
she can do this using Widget's Dimensional Gate:
(Excalibur #18 & #19) don't make it clear whether the Jamie in the Other Dimension is real or not.
The World he lives in is certainly an idealized version of what Jamie would consider a paradise - one where racing drivers are revered as the top celebrities of the Planet.
Until the Second installment we are led to believe this is just another Alternate Reality, but then we learn that Earth-616's Jamie is manipulating what is happening.
When the Mainstream Jamie goes to sleep, not only does his counterpart vanish, but so too do the Dirty Angels and the City around them.
This certainly would imply that Mainstream Jamie Created all of them.
Next page we learn,
Widget's Dimensional Gate that leads to this Alternate Reality from 616,
has NO Alternate Reality to go to: hm
"Widget's Dimensional Gate didn't work, I'm trapped on Earth"
Don't tell me ...
that whole Universe is cut off from the Omniverse because Jamie's City disappeared.
.................................................................................
I guess we should ignore this aswell:
(Phoenix & Meggan linked as one are able to transform into certain beings with powers and all)
Dazzler's power comes from Sound waves that permeate through the Universe,
Jamie shuts off all the Sound in that Reality:
Here Jamie makes Havok's own nuclear plasma blast explode the Moon after blasting a hole straight through him:
Right ... cause you can create a full scale Moon in in Space in a City size Warp. 😆
Hey if that wasn't enough,
Here Jamie actually turns all the STARS in this Universe into snowflakes apparently:
(in order to turn off Havok's power which came from Stellar Energy at the time)
"No more Stars ... means No more Steller Energy"
It's a rap right there.
Anyone who denies this feat is a hater,
all the true debaters agree on the CLEAR OBVIOUS ON PANEL PROOF!
AGAIN ... attempting at demeaning everything anyone else does,
that Phoenix can't do.
"Within Jamie's warp" my ass.
Are you saying he created a Universe within his Warp?
That would be sweet.
Or are you saying it's an illusion?
That would be bull shit
This is going to hurt,
you must've missed it in your ego rant which included scans and all TRYING to make a case,
when in Fact .... there is NO case. 😬
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
So just to summarize, NOWHERE on panel are any changes to reality made directly by Wanda with the exception of the GLOBAL conversion to the HOM reality and the No more mutants change. Where is this fabled third and allegedly universal change you talk about Mr Master.No rants. Just show us on panel where the third change is shown happening in 616 and where it’s talked about. The conversion to HOM was the first, the No more mutants change was the last. Both of those were depicted and discussed in detail on panel. Why would they omit a supposedly universal change?
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Its stated point blank on panel that ALL of Wandas transformations were GLOBAL.On top of that the Chaos Wave is NOT said to be Wandas creation but instead the RESULT of Wandas transformation. (The creation of the HOM reality on earth)
You can post as many bio scans as you want of the Chaos Wave being referred to as Wandas warp because it was. She was responsible for it, but she never created it directly and powered it on its path of destruction. Her actions were teh catalyst for it. [B]BIG
difference. [/B]
For all this babble and the rest of your supposed "proof" ...
you lose.
Finally!
Marvel has officially categorized HOM (Earth-58163) as an Altered Universe.
Which was Created by Wanda when she Remade the 616 Reality.
House of M (Earth-58163)
http://www.marvelcomics.com/universe/House_of_M_%28Earth-58163%29
"It is indeed an Altered Reality --- not an Alternate Reality"
"It was so Altered that events that occurred in the history of Earth-616-normal,
did not necessarily affect those in the House of M Reality"
"Reality-58163 is a core Continuum designation for this unique Altered Reality"
Earth-58163 (HOM Reality)
Is also Officially established as a Universe in the "REALITIES" menu at Marvel.com:
http://www.marvelcomics.com/universe/Category:Realities
As you can see,
it's in the company of, amongst others,
"Earth X" - "Ultimate Universe" - "MC2" - "2099" - Mutant X -
"1602" ... which I personally posted the Scans of HOW that Universe was created here:
Well ... so now we know Wanda Warped the 616 Universe right here for a Second time:
"She's starting to Remake Reality 616
Indeed.
I NEVER doubted it for one second,
the ON PANEL Proof and corresponding Bios was enough,
but Marvel itself had to make it Official for ya (intransigence overflows in obsession)
NOW WHAT? 😆
Originally posted by Merlyn
Other then that claim made about Vangaard being Omniversal,
did he actually display anything better then Multiversal feats?Because I don't see any..
What do you mean Multiversal?
It's quite clear Vangaard can erase any Universe in the Omniverse he wishes.
Amped up Psi-Lord exploded a Universe in his Vangaard's face,
and Vangaard didn't even seem to notice it let alone stop him.
Oh and on the "other than the claim made about Vangaard being Omniversal"
You missed this one friend:
Huntara opens inter-Dimensional portalS,
that allow her to see into ALL other Realities simultaneously,
she can also attack a specific subject and his counters (if he has any)
............................................................................................
Huntara says,
"We are undone,
the Entity ... EXISTS Along Too MANY Planes"
"We must flee"
"TOO MANY Planes"
(not exactly ALL Planes but we can agree he simultaneously Exists,
in MORE than one Reality at a time)
"Too MANY" ... in fact.
Originally posted by King Kandy
But I agree... Being able to effect universes all over the Omniverse is not Omniversal power...It just proves that you have universal power plus the ability to traverse the omniverse.
Vangaard Exists in multiple Realities simultaneously:
Originally posted by Mr Master
Huntara says,"We are undone,
the Entity ... EXISTS Along Too MANY Planes"
"We must flee"
IMO,
Vangaard has instantaneous access to any Universe he so chooses in the Omniverse.
This is why he still has to travel to them but it must be like opening one door and then another,
back to back to back into infinity.
It's the only sensible explanation for Huntara seeing him in "TOO Many Planes" simultaneously.
What's your take on the HOM Wanda issue?
Originally posted by King Kandy
To many planes probably just means that he exists in plains like the mental plane, subconscious plane, physical plane...You know, like that one Korvac scan?
That would be plausible, but there's one particular that can't be overlooked:
Huntara saw into Vangaard's Past,
that's another Timeline, not only because it is another Timeline regardless it being the Past,
but because Vangaard is from another Universe, depicted in FF#163.
This tells me,
she's talking about Realities/UniverseS which have been refered to in other issues as Planes.
Edit*
Huntara's power is to open Inter-Dimensional Portals:
(Weapons)
Psionic Scythe,
which can cause psychic damage and open rifts to transport people anywhere she desires.
