Genis shows Thor the Past and the Future in one seamless flow,
with his Cosmic Awareness:
First Genis shows Thor the Past
Then Genis shows Thor the Future, had he made the wrong decision.
Even Rick thinks it's really happening but Genis is calmly standing in the middle,
Finally Thor lets go of Genis' Hand
Thor saw the Past and the Future based on his decision,
he now Changes his decision and prevents that Future:
Originally posted by Mr Master
Even though the [B]Multiverse is mentioned up and down this arc,I should take your word instead? no2
I love ya K, but that ain't happening.[/B]
Dispite the fact that a Regular-Powered Dormammu could hurt him? Regardless of him not having jurisdiction over the Dark Dimension?
He couldn't beat Zom, Who was the first Multi-Versal threat in Marvel... And yet Zom was having a hard time against a Merged Strange/Ancient One? I seriously doubt that Multi-Eternity couldn't put down a being who's greatest power wasn't significant to Nebulous...
Originally posted by King Kandy
Even though we actualy saw the Universe (ONE REALM) actualy MORPH into Eternity in theat particular instance?Even though It was eternity's first appearence as a living Universe?
Even thogh Multi-Eternity hadn't been Invented yet?
Even though the Marvel Multiverse itself hadn't really been fleashed out yet?
Dispite the fact that a Regular-Powered Dormammu could hurt him?
Regardless of him not having jurisdiction over the Dark Dimension?
I have no idea what you're trying to say with this.
Originally posted by King Kandy
He couldn't beat Zom, Who was the first Multi-Versal threat in Marvel... And yet Zom was having a hard time against a Merged Strange/Ancient One?I seriously doubt that
Multi-Eternity couldn't put down a being,
who's greatest power wasn't significant to Nebulous...
This proves to me you didn't read the arc nor the scans I posted.
When you actually read it, we'll proceed.
For now I leave you with this:
"It always comes down to conquering the Universe,
well ... MULTIVERSE in my case"
(Dormammu actually differenciates the two terms)
If this isn't cut and dry,
as you wish. 🙂
re: multi-eternity v eternity in the defenders mini:
hmm, people need to focus on the correct scan. 🙂
http://img406.imageshack.us/my.php?image=u8wd6.jpg
now, a couple things?
1. is eternity (singular) a multiverse? ✅ (ask stange. 🙂 ) that explains away all references to the multiverse that follow in your scans.
2. now, the important part (that went unanswered): can you explain away without speculation the diaogue between dormammu and eternity where eternity CLEARLY references their past encounter? ❌ (please don't self-retcon that first meeting into dormmy ACTUALLY meeting with a multi-eternity who did not exist yet . . .)
3. can i explain away said diaogue? ✅ 😄
you're right -- it WAS an IG-type god he became. he was exactly what thanos was when he replaced eternity. and if it was multi-eternity, where was lt? we also have come to know giffen's cosmic knowledge is well respected at marvel. (see annihilation.) had he meant multi, he would have said multi.
anyhow, it's your thread and i'll respect your wishes to not carry the debate onwards. but, lots of people look at this thread and it's important that people realize there is a far simpler explanation for the events in that series, one that requires NO speculation as regards dialogue. (and no self-imposed retcons.)
🙂
Originally posted by Mr Master
For now [B]I leave you with this:"It always comes down to conquering the Universe,
well ... MULTIVERSE in my case"
(Dormammu actually differenciates the two terms)
[/B]
oh, and that's because he has ALREADY conquered many universes in the past, smaller, pocket-type universes/dimensions. nothing on the scale of a multiverse like eternity though.
the last time they met and he tried it, he was sent packing. 😉
Originally posted by leonidas
re: multi-eternity v eternity in the defenders mini:
I see the caps didn't work. 🙂
Originally posted by leonidas
hmm, people need to focus on the correct scan.http://img406.imageshack.us/my.php?image=u8wd6.jpg
now, a couple things?
1. is eternity (singular) a multiverse?
no2
Originally posted by leonidas
(ask stange) that explains away all references to the multiverse that follow in your scans.
dontgetit
Originally posted by leonidas
2. now, the important part (that went unanswered): can you explain away without speculation the diaogue between dormammu and eternity where eternity CLEARLY references their past encounter?
This ought to do it:
"I am the Spirit of the Universe that once existed here.
I am an Aspect (a Universe) of .... ALL Eternity" (the Multiverse)
Now this is that same Eternity telling us One Universe is just a PART of His TOTALITY:
"Of the nigh-Infinite number of Aspects that comprise MY Totality,
I am the only Aspect to succumb to Death"
"Eternity spoke of Infinite Universes beyond this"
Phoenix even says,
"I will look for a Universe where it was I who died,
not the Universe some place that needs me"
There's absolutely No doubt,
that these Aspects are single Universes,
and that ALL Eternity is the Multiverse.
The Aspects (Universes) are but fragments of Eternity (the Multiverse)
Is it not sensible then that whatever a single Aspect (Universe) knows,
ALL of Eternity (the Multiverse) knows as well?
After all this Single Universe alluded to the idea that IT was the Multiverse itself.
("Of the nigh-Infinite number of Aspects that comprise MY Totality"😉
Originally posted by leonidas
(please don't self-retcon that first meeting into dormmy ACTUALLY meeting with a multi-eternity who did not exist yet . . .)
Evidently didn't need to.
Originally posted by leonidas
3. can i explain away said diaogue?
❌
Originally posted by leonidas
you're right -- it WAS an IG-type god he became. he was exactly what thanos was when he replaced eternity.
I disagree.
Far too much Proof not leaning but pushing towards it being the Multiverse.
You're literally trying to overwrite what was stated On Panel atleast 10 times.
Originally posted by leonidas
and if it was multi-eternity, where was lt?
What about em?
Dormammu and Umar weren't upsetting the Balance, they were Taking over.
LT does not interfere in such cases.
Originally posted by leonidas
we also have come to know giffen's cosmic knowledge is well respected at marvel. (see annihilation.) had he meant multi, he would have said multi.
Yea he did state Multiverse, many more times than once.
It's you that's Warping the term Multiverse into Universe,
never seen anyone do that.
And I already told you,
you will NEVER find the term "Multi-Eternity,"
in any other Book other than that ONE FF issue.
In fact, I challenge you to do so.
Originally posted by leonidas
anyhow, it's your thread and i'll respect your wishes to not carry the debate onwards. but, lots of people look at this thread and it's important that people realize there is a far simpler explanation for the events in that series, one that requires NO speculation as regards dialogue.
I stand by what I said, now as before.
But thanx to you I was able to Prove it further. 🙂
Originally posted by leonidas
oh, and that's because he has ALREADY conquered many universes in the past, smaller, pocket-type universes/dimensions.
oh, I don't think so.
How the heck did you come to that notion old friend?
He was talking about the Multiverse he had just conquered.
That it wasn't just a Universe, but in fact a Multiverse. 🙂
"self imposed retcons"
how about,
"self induced text" 🙄
Dormammu and Umar "Together"
were a Universal threat already even without Eternity:
(this is Before they absorbed the power of the Multiverse)
"Reality itself could be snuffed out"
Dormammu, after acquiring Dr Strange's Amulet that leads to Eternity:
"to melt All Creation into a Cosmic slag, and then mold it together again,
in my image ... Scream my name ... ALL the UniverseS will be doing the same"
Umar admiring the Hulk:
"As soon as Dormammu and I are done conquering the MULTIVERSE"
Dormammu speaks to Umar:
Dormammu right before reaching Eternity:
"In this sanctum, the Mystical ley lines of Ten Million UniverseS converge,
the Doorway between Realities thin"
This is plain english:
"It always comes down to conquering the Universe,
well ... MULTIVERSE in my case"
Dormammu on Eternity:
"Perhaps the most powerful Entity in the MULTIVERSE"
Umar tells Bruce Banner,
"You're worried about Your Reality ... (the 616 Universe)
I have NO interest in Your little corner of the Cosmos (the 616 Universe)
All I want is the power Dormammu stole from Eternity"
"All the Worlds .. ALL the UniverseS at our disposal"
(so Umar could care less about the 616 Reality, she wants ALL the Realities)
Umar the New Multi-Eternity, says to Dormammu:
"My first action as a Supreme Being will be to blast your mind, body and soul,
into a Hundred Billion microscopic pieces,
and scatter you across Ten Thousand Universes"
Dormammu as he becomes one with Eternity's (the Multiverse) Essence:
"Worlds within Worlds ... Dimensions folding into themselves ...
Entire Universes being born ... and collapsing into ruin ...
and yet All This is but the merest Fraction of what Eternity is ...
what I will become ... when I reach the Core of Eternity's Being ...
Here ALL Energy ... ALL Matter ... lies sleeping in it's unmanifest state ...
I will descend into the oceanic void ... filtering the surge through my consciousness,
Re-Birthing every being and thing in ALL the UNIVERSES"
"In my Image"
Strange says,
"He's managed to siphon off the INFINITE Energies of Eternity himself,
Eternity is the complete embodiment of Everyone and Everything ...
on All Levels of Creation ...
"All we See ... is a reflection of Dormammu's Consciousness.
Every living creature, every field & flower,
every random thought, every passing breeze,
Belongs to Him"
Dormammu speaks:
"No Soul in ALL the MULTIVERSE can comprehend the Bliss,
that Dormammu feels"
Again:
"I will erase you from existence ... and then ALL the MULTIVERSE will follow"
"Umar won .. she's a God now"
"Umar is not interested in Our World"
"What about the damage she can do to Other Worlds, Other UniverseS?"
Originally posted by Mr Master
dontgetit
A HAND THAT HOLDS UNIVERSES
unless you want to impose a retcon yourself -- cuz no retcon has ever happened -- eternity (singular) has ALWAYS been a multiverse unto himself. multi-eternity is just that -- multi-eternity. that in no way PRECLUDES each individual eternity from being seen as a multiverse.
even the marvel.com supports the notion:
He [Eternity]is every living thing and every living thing is him; thus he controls everything in all plains of existence with the exception of the Living Tribunal.
EVERYTHING IN ALL PLAINS OF EXISTENCE. eternity is comprised of multiple plains of existences/realities/universes. (see scan above) regardless, he is still referenced as the sentience of the universe, but also the totality of creation, of existence, the sum of all things, etc . . .
i've said it 1000 times: terminology in marvel is NOT UNIVERSAL. the terms are thrown around like this is a . . . well . . . fictional world. 😉 you -- NO ONE -- can impose a single hierarchy of terms when those terms are FLUID.
here again, eternity saying that strange's dimension is only an infinitesimal portion of all he is:
what could you offer me to interfere in a matter only involving one dimension. (this is the whole goddess affair -- that eternity cares nothing about)
you would risk your all against such an infintesimal part of myself . . .
our 616 dimension (dimension and universe are INTERCHANEABLE TERMS -- and yes i can show the scan to prove this if you need it) is only an infinitesimal part of eternity. SINGULAR. unless you want to go back and retcon ALL of eternity's appearances.
which you seem to have done here:
"I am the Spirit of the Universe that once existed here.I am an Aspect (a Universe) of .... ALL Eternity" (the Multiverse)
Now this is that same Eternity telling us One Universe is just a PART of His TOTALITY:
"Of the nigh-Infinite number of Aspects that comprise MY Totality,
I am the only Aspect to succumb to Death"
"Eternity spoke of Infinite Universes beyond this"Phoenix even says,
"I will look for a Universe where it was I who died,
not the Universe some place that needs me"
There's absolutely No doubt,
that these Aspects are single Universes,
and that ALL Eternity is the Multiverse.
The Aspects (Universes) are but fragments of Eternity (the Multiverse)
Is it not sensible then that whatever a single Aspect (Universe) knows,
ALL of Eternity (the Multiverse) knows as well?
After all this Single Universe alluded to the idea that IT was the Multiverse itself.
("Of the nigh-Infinite number of Aspects that comprise MY Totality"😉
😑
seriously? did you just go back and . . . retcon that appearance YOURSELF? your translation of "ALL ETERNITY" is . . . less than convincing in any event.
all of that -- and all of the multiverse references in that hilarious series are explained away SIMPLY. AND i didn't have to go back and self-impose retcons on any scenes to expain the events of that series away.
I disagree.Far too much Proof not leaning but pushing towards it being the Multiverse.
You're literally trying to overwrite what was stated On Panel atleast 10 times.
not at all. you're simply ignoring the fact that OTHER terminolgy was also used:
your 'little' universe. we've seen already strange's universe is an infinitesimal part of eternity as a whole.
you stepped foot in his UNIVERSE.
entering my UNIVERSE.
molding the UNIVERSE.
if only i could conquer the UNIVERSE myself . . .
just cuz you CHOSE to highlight multiverse, does NOT mean that was the onyl term referenced. and since i've already shown eternity (singular) can easily be viewed as a multiverse unto itself, it doesn't matter anyway. multiverse is wholly accurate to describe the events in the series.
Yea he did state Multiverse, many more times than once.It's you that's Warping the term Multiverse into Universe,
never seen anyone do that.
😂
the irony. seems you spent many many pages of debate wraping UNIVERSE to mean MULTIVERSE in THE END discussion. difference here is a have shown absolute proof that singular eternity IS made of multiple universes. are you denying the scans above? or are you going to take the liberty of retconing THOSE scans as well? 😖hifty:
And I already told you,you will NEVER find the term "Multi-Eternity,"
in any other Book other than that ONE FF issue.
In fact, I challenge you to do so.
why would i need to? 😕
you're the one who continues to reference him ADMITTING he's never been shown before. i'm not denying his existence. i'm saying each singular eternity is more than you want to accept cuz it throws a big kink in your hierarchy.
I stand by what I said, now as before.But thanx to you I was able to Prove it further. 🙂
depends. if you call self retconning an appearance of singular eternity into an appearance of multi-eternity further proof, then i guess you're right. 😖hifty:
Originally posted by Mr Master
oh, I don't think so.How the heck did you come to that notion old friend?
check out the history of the dark dimension, mon ami. 🙂
He was talking about the Multiverse he had just conquered.That it wasn't just a Universe, but in fact a Multiverse. 🙂
"self imposed retcons"
how about,
"self induced text" 🙄
so . . . how about answering my initial query:
please explain away -- without speculation -- the discussion between eternity and dormammu where they BOTH CLEARLY REFERENCE their past encounter. you haven't done it yet. this is as close as you've come, i'm afraid:
The Aspects (Universes) are but fragments of Eternity (the Multiverse)Is it not sensible then that whatever a single Aspect (Universe) knows,
ALL of Eternity (the Multiverse) knows as well?
sounds pretty speculatory to me . . . 😖hifty:
my explanation is both well supported and far simpler. they both referenced that meeting because it was the SAME eternity dormammu challenged and lost to in the past. and it has the added advantage of not having to make up a theory requiring mutli-eternity to somehow know implicitly what each singular eternity knows.
because that's the only way you can explain that discussion away. without imposing retcons.
sorry -- didn't mean to turn this into a debate in your thread, but, well . . . you bring it outta me. if you want to handle this in pm's from here on, no prob. 🙂
