Proof that the compass pointing to Will in Jacks direction is a fake!

Mistypirate said:

Oh I'm pretty aware of the other points in the movie that need resolution. All i'm saying is that the most important part in the movie are the characters, and they are definitely going to need some kind of closure. I'm not saying that Jack's character didn't enjoyed being who he is, was. I don't know if you remember Becket's line, "Jack must find a place in this new world or he would perish". I mean we wouldn't want this character to die. Therefore Jack has to find a place in life in order to survive. Why go in to so much effort to try to change his character,in DMC we saw a different Jack Sparrow, totally different from the first one.

Actually, Jack was not all that different than in the first movie. He was just a lot more desperate and afraid for his life. He was willing to use anyone to get what he wanted, which was the chest and/or the key, so that he could negotiate for his life.

Beckett's line just means that Jack will have to adapt...or NOT. I don't know if Jack would want to comform to the New World. He strikes me as the kind who will continue to lead his life how HE wants to, and to not negotiate on that point.

He was still Jack Sparrow but there was something different in him. I bet I wasn't the only one that noticed it. This character is evolving, it was something that us viewers didn't expected, no not Ole Jack. I bet everyone else felt in love with that concept. :COUGHS I BILLION: Jack a different man? I do trust in TnT writings, I mean they are awesome writers. I have seen many of their movies not just POTC. But if people don't like the movie how is it going to be successful? Jack doesn't have to completely change in order to be a good man, I didn't say that, and i'm not saying that. We just want to see this character given some kind of closure.

Actually, I enjoyed Jack Sparrow, but he was NOT the reason that I went and saw it fifteen times, and if you would bother poking your head out of the J/E world, you would see that Norrington, Will, Tia, Davy Jones, Beckett and people who just like good action films were a LARGE part of the *cough*Billion*cough* that you are so fond of mentioning. I don't know what the *cough*Billion*cough* has ANYTHING to do with J/E, because I'm sorry, but your ship and favorite character is not solely responsible for the success of DMC.

ChikiMina wrote:

what you dont get is that any loser can post that kind of information online. Like you once oh so memorebly said theories are not facts.

This is true. But I don't think it's just any 'loser' posting that. I believe Ted Elliott wrote that. You don't have to believe me, or him, of course, but if you find out that you were wrong you'd better be prepared to apologize.

And I have buisness on calling ppl liars because they friggin got nothing else to do then make up BS sotries. I dont believe in nothing that they post in ktttc or the internet. The only fact that we will seek is in the movie and the trailer.

Now you just sound like a sulky two year old who had his favorite toy taken away. I said something that could prove you wrong, and suddenly nothing on the internet matters anymore. I hope that includes any and all theories on J/E, of course, because obviously those are all lies too.

Im debating by facts only and patterns, not by pyscho ppl who post made up crap. YOU HAVE NO BUISNESS in calling us a liar and telling that we are twisting facts when youre the one doing it. Debate all you want buddy but the facts are clear and they are in your face. Problem is the future captain eunichs fish face tentacles are blocking your face.

I never called you a liar. Your happy little tribe is the one calling people liars, among various other names. The facts are clear, or maybe they aren't...that's part of the fun of the movie. If they were clear, we wouldn't be debating. However, you are too wrapped up in J/E to notice that anyone else makes a good point.

Also, there is no evidence that Will is going to look exactly like Davy Jones (if he does in fact stab the heart). I have a feeling that each sea creature is unique to the person, and no two are the same. And I don't know that he would in fact turn into anything at all. Perhaps its Jones' own twisted nature that caused him to change so much.

so you, better start counting your days till May 25th 2007. The only fact that you can proove is form the movie not form internet made up crap.

There is plenty of evidence in the film to back up the W/E love, you just don't want to see it. It's a shame you can't back up a few steps and really look at it to see it.

Mistypirate said:

you are so damn funny I did my best to put that worm in his place. But you definitely did better.

Aww, was that supposed to hurt my feelings? I'm crying on the inside. Really.

In nowhere she was looking in Wills direction. Where Will came from he was standing a few feet away where Jack was. It shows on the pictures. She looked at Jacks direction in the beach scene. And its freekin impossible that the first time the compass pointed to Jack it was pointing to Will in some miraculious way.

Her goal was to save will yes. But not to have him lol. She only wants Will to be saved. In the curiosity she mentions she was so ready to be married but she didint say "Im so ready to be married with Will" lol. She never once mentioned Will lol. She only wants the wedding night.

Her feelings towards Will is love but shes not in love with him. T&T said that each of these characters change during potc. oo by the way Jack does love the sea, but guess who also loves the sea, Elizabeth lol. She loves the sea also and freedom. I think she rather stay to sail at sea rather than stay on land wearing corsets for the rest of her life.

Actually, Jack was not all that different than in the first movie. He was just a lot more desperate and afraid for his life. He was willing to use anyone to get what he wanted, which was the chest and/or the key, so that he could negotiate for his life.
Beckett's line just means that Jack will have to adapt...or NOT. I don't know if Jack would want to comform to the New World. He strikes me as the kind who will continue to lead his life how HE wants to, and to not negotiate on that point.

Actually, I enjoyed Jack Sparrow, but he was NOT the reason that I went and saw it fifteen times, and if you would bother poking your head out of the J/E world, you would see that Norrington, Will, Tia, Davy Jones, Beckett and people who just like good action films were a LARGE part of the *cough*Billion*cough* that you are so fond of mentioning. I don't know what the *cough*Billion*cough* has ANYTHING to do with J/E, because I'm sorry, but your ship and favorite character is not solely responsible for the success of DMC.

God here we go again, your arguments are over, you cant even come on with an intelligent point. There are reason why the writers put those lines in there. And yes Jack indeed is changing, we see a different character in this movie. You are saying that Jack used people in order to get what he wanted, I didn't see anything that indicated that he was using people. You are probably saying it because he supposedly sold Will to DJ. But what were Jack's specific reasons for doing it? We don't really now. But what I know is that he didn't do it for the wrong reasons. He probably knew that Will was going to be safer with D/J. At the end of the movie we see that Jack comes back to the ship and saves everyone. We don't see him running away desperately. Something has given this character courage and strength in order for him to face his fears. So yes there are a lot if indications that suggest that this character is evolving and changing. And the majority of people went to see the movie because of the three main characters. I mean the other characters are very reliable to the story but come on! tell me who went to see DMC to watch Tia Dalmas character? Ummm answer that for me.

LovelyOne wrote:

that wasnt teds belief that was Stab o The Cutlass's belief!

the only thing Ted said was the FIRST thing..geeze!

I did correct myself, or did you not bother to read it?

I know you dont believe me but it would make Dead Man's chest and AWE pointless if each character ended up exactly the same as they were during movie 1...that is BAD script writing there's one thing I learned when writing screenplays in college.."dont add anything pointless in" because it will piss off the audience...it never happens in successful stories..they usually follow the 12 steps and each character in DMC appears to be following them at different paces.

You could just be wrong, you know. The only character that really seems to be following your path is Norrington, and even that's not a sure bet. It's a good formula, and you can TRY to use it to predict what will happen, but until the entire story is told you cannot truly apply it to anything.

The movies would not be pointless if the characters end up basically where they were in the beginning....Norrington restored to a position of prestige and power, only perhaps a bit more humble and wiser...Elizabeth and Will married, with Bootstrap dropping in with Uncle Jack and Uncle Barbossa to visit them....and Jack and Barbossa sailing across the seas, sometimes working together, sometimes in the midst of a friendly rivalry, with plenty of adventures to make life interesting...

No, that's not bad writing. That's a good ending. And yeah, I totally made that up. It's not necessarily how I myself would choose to end the movie, but it's the first thing I came up with while typing.

imagine if Leia and Hans said "I love you!" "I know" and then they didnt end up together in some way..you would look over the trilogy again and say "hang on a sec....then why did that happen in movie 2 between them?"

It wouldn't be pointless because the flirty moments between Jack and Elizabeth (no "I love you" in there) create a rift between Will and Elizabeth that must be over-come. Every relationship has their bumps, and this is one of theirs.

then we look at Harry Potter..imagine if by the end of it he decided not to kill voldermort and instead he decideds to go back and be normal kid with his aunt and uncle..

Oh come on! The whole movie of DMC was NOT dedicated to J/E love! Neither was Curse of the Black Pearl, and despite everything I've heard on here, I don't believe that AWE is going to be some love-fest of J/E either. It's an action movie with romance, not a romance movie with a bit of action! Besides, Harry would never go to live with his aunt and uncle...

If they are to end exactly the same as they were then firstly it doesnt make sense of the theme raised in DMC and AWE of changing from the old world or persishing in the new world. each character neds to change to suit the new world..and we actually see an emotional battle going on with each character between something old and familiar and something new and intrusive..it seems to be about them learning to embrace the new thing in their lives before the old world ends.

This I agree with this statement, actually, and it's a very good point. The only thing is, I don't believe it has to do with J/E ending up together, but what each character is going to have to do in order to survive in the new world. Or perhaps...something will happen to prevent the er...New World from happening. Just a thought.

What I find interesting is how they are saying movie 4 will be a "reinvention not a continuation" from movie 3...the way movie 3 ends in that script I have? I can see why

Why is it randomly Liz in the future with a 9 year old son?..no indication of Will sleeping with her in the script?

they are going to probably start over the love story between Jack/Liz in movie 4 without Will being there and explain how that bizzare ending in AWE came to be possibly?

Or maybe the ending will be totally different from the script you have. They are still filming, you know. Is there an indication of Jack sleeping with Liz? Or the other pirate? Maybe it's Barbossa's kid...He seems to have a weird connection to her as well. 😉

Jack didnt begin to fall in love then revert back to thinking women were bitches and so they should be treated like them..

I don't recall Jack ever treating women like bitches...could you clarify how he does so?

oh wow I sound like a 2 year old boo hoo is that another one of your plans to make me cut out my veins?? oh gee let me sharpen my knife.

Its a shame that you dont see that the movie has to progress as well as the characters. Liz is not a ping pong, She cant just have Will the first then Jack in the second and then Will in the third. Besides, WILL IS GOING TO DIE GET THAT TO YOUR HEAD. Hows she gonna end up with Will by the end of the movie? Unless she can make up an imaginary buddy and called him Will, then theres no way Liz can be with Will.

You cant just use Jack and toy his feelings. T&T are not the type to toy feelings with other ppl, change them, then change them back to their old ways. Whats it trying to proove? There comes a time when a character changes and is a new person. It wont make any sense if they put Jack loving his material things and sleeping with hookers again. BS

If I see the patterns between Will/Liz believe me I will definitely support Will/Liz all the way. But I dont see any and it not because I dont want to, its because theres nothing nada.

Originally posted by Surreal_44
Mistypirate said:

Aww, was that supposed to hurt my feelings? I'm crying on the inside. Really.

Yes you are hurting because your baseless arguments are coming to an end. There are things and hints in the movie that supports our ideas. And you can't even come up with an intelligent point, as to why the character are doing the things they do. So I think your acting in desperation.

I think you are the one who denies in seeing these patterns. I think your the one whos twsiting the facts. We are not 2 year olds who cries everytime someone says we're wrong about j/l. On the contrary it makes us proud bc that means that they are just too damn scared that its more of j/l than w/l.

Mistypirate wrote:

God here we go again, your arguments are over, you cant even come on with an intelligent point. There are reason why the writers put those lines in there. And yes Jack indeed is changing, we see a different character in this movie. You are saying that Jack used people in order to get what he wanted, I didn't see anything that indicated that he was using people. You are probably saying it because he supposedly sold Will to DJ. But what were Jack's specific reasons for doing it? We don't really now. But what I know is that he didn't do it for the wrong reasons. He probably knew that Will was going to be safer with D/J. At the end of the movie we see that Jack comes back to the ship and saves everyone. We don't see him running away desperately. Something has given this character courage and strength in order for him to face his fears. So yes there are a lot if indications that suggest that this character is evolving and changing. And the majority of people went to see the movie because of the three main characters. I mean the other characters are very reliable to the story but come on! tell me who went to see DMC to watch Tia Dalmas character? Ummm answer that for me.

Actually, I know someone who did go see the movie for Tia...anyway, that is besides the point...The point is, J/E shippers did not solely support the movie.

Also, Jack's reason for putting Will on the Flying Dutchman was to get the key. Jack knew what DJ was like, and he knew that there was a distinct possibility that Will could die, or if Will saw what the Dutchman truly looked like, he would not have agreed to go.

Jack was not going to give the compass to Will...he was selfish and TRICKED Will into getting the key. In much the same way as Jack used Norrington's men in the first movie, he used Will in the second movie.

Jack also used Elizabeth to find the chest...because he knew how to manipulate her feelings and get her to do what he wanted. She wanted to find Will, but he convinced her to find the chest. *shrug* It's not much of a difference, but it is a difference.

Jack has always had the courage to do what was right, it was just not always what he wanted to do. I don't think Elizabeth 'made' him a good man (he already was one), although her belief in him might have helped in his decision to go back to the ship. Having someone believe in you, no matter what, can make all the difference. However, I don't think that it was her LOVE that changed him.

And besides, she chained him to a ship to die....not because of her temptation (I'm sorry, that's one of the funniest ideas I've heard), but because Jack proved himself to be untrustworthy. He came back, but she didn't trust him to stay, so she made certain that he did.

Yes, Jack changed and evolved, but he didn't suddenly morph from a bad guy to a good guy...it was more subtle than that. He made a mistake, and now he's paying for it.

Question is, what was the mistake? There are lots of answers, and maybe all of them or none of them are correct.

I'm off for a bit. I'll finish debating you later. 💃

Originally posted by Surreal_44
[
There is plenty of evidence in the film to back up the W/E love, you just don't want to see it. It's a shame you can't back up a few steps and really look at it to see it. [/B]

You know I kept reading this on KTTC...but I just didn't see it...See what you don't get is that we are not saying it is definitley a J/L thing...we are just saying that based on everything we saw in the movie...it points to Jack and Liz....

I would love For Jack Sparrow to be in love and find happiness beyond material possessions....but if you were to read all these threads over the past two months you will see that we are not convinced it will go that way, but we would like for it to....

We could list for you endless clues of jack and liz...but I don't see many that point to Will and Liz....

Why don't you numerate these things....see that's the problem...no one has been able to do this for me...when I would post on KTTC I was totally ignored...i would ask for this to be explained and it was like I never even posted.....

But in the long run...none of this really matters....T & T already have a plan for this....none of us really know what that is....and we won't know until May 2007....

I know I was one of those people that got angry and said DMC was a waste of time and I wouldn't be seeing AWE....I, like everyone else, got a little carried away....people make mistakes...it's human nature.

As far as I'm concerned, and I'm not the only one, if T & T don't go with a J/L love story, then whatever happens in AWE - I'm sure they will have a way to explain away or have the characters overcome everything that happened in DMC....that's acceptable to the audience....it's just at this point and time...I'm just not sure what that could be...I know what I saw and what I believe, what I got out of DMC so if the writers turn it around into something else...then I will just question alot of things, that's all......it'll just seem to me that they wasted alot of scenes and symbolisms and innuendo's on something that's going nowhere???? If all they wanted to do was use jack/liz attraction as a bump in the road to W/E happily ever after...then, they should have done something else...cuz you don't put the lead lady and the lead man in a romantic situation and not expect for many, many people to want it to go that way....I can think of alot of different things they could have done without showing us the great chemistry between Keira and Johnny on screeen....course I had already picked up on it in POTC 1 - from the very first time I saw the rescue scene....so....

JUST ME that's all...and many, many others...

And as funny at it seems, Johnny/Keira are actually very excited about the Jack/Liz relationship.

Like lovethemtigers said, we are not sure how the mvoie is going to end, the only proof that we have is the movie which, of ocurse, wont come out till may 25 2007.

The ppl from here have reread and re-seen the movie over and over again. The clues are there, the patterns are there. T&T put it all into the movie, its up to us o figure it out. And by all means it shows its clearly J/L. But its not confirmed. I just dont see nothing with Will/Liz. The marriege got interrupted because fate intervened.

If I see the patterns between Will/Liz believe me I will definitely support Will/Liz all the way. But I dont see any and it not because I dont want to, its because theres nothing nada.

Exactly Chiki there are no patterns that indicate, we will be seeing a happy, fluffy W/E ending. In DMC we see that all the characters are heading in different directions. I wasn't a J/E supporter when the first movie came. I tough that W/E had the Disney ending that they deserved. All sweet, cakes and chocolates awwww. Anyways back on topic. I never imagined, it didn't crossed my mind that J/L could be coupled up. But when I went to see the movie, and I saw all this hints, compass, symbolisms and all that crab, I was like crab they are falling for each other why didn't I never thought of that? I just fell In love with this idea. The characters heading in to a direction that never was expected. I wasn't the only one that fell in love with this idea. Asks 1 billion people to see what they will tell you. All my friends and family that has seen the movie were shock about the idea of J/L being coupled. They said shit, I never expected that the pirate would get the girl or something like that.

Will was no where even near where jack was when the compass pointed to him.

the only thing we learn to be blocked in that scene is the dutchman

Originally posted by Swann&Sparrow
I think that {refering to the compass thing} the compass pointed to Elizabeth and Jack said that she was sitting on the chest. I know that Jack didn't fall in love with Elizabeth at that time, he was still confused and not willing to realize he had an attraction to her PERSONALITY as well as her apperence. He was still the shallow minded Jack, so he was still wanting matierial possesions.

So on the ship, before he found Elizabeth, the compass was spinning. In three serperate ways, I think the first way was Elizabeth and the second was the chest. He wanted to cheat death and live so he NEEDED that chest, but he still WANTED Elizabeth. I don't know what the third point was pointing to.

So when it pointed to where Elizabeth was sitting, it made up its mind. Cause Elizabeth AND the chest was there, so Jack wasn't torn between two things. They were coincidentally in the same place, that's why the compass didn't swing to a different place for him.

The compass wasnt working for Jack at all. All it was doing was pointing at Elizabeth and furtherst away and then back again. It wouldnt ever show him the chest thats why he gave the compass to Liz to find the chest..it wasn't pointing there for him at all...he didnt really want the chest what he wanted was her...and thats what was pissing him off I think..

I do actually think he very much accepted her in her life after he met Tia (who lead him to her IMO) he bumped into Liz and he actually takes her on board where as before he was refusing to face up to her when Will asked for help..she was on his mind right from the start yet he refused to face up to her.

DITTO Chiki......
1. a dreary rainy day...Elizabeth looking anything but happy.....the beginning of this movie starts just as it ends...Elizabeth crying over lost love
2. as Beckett says: a wedding interrupted or FATE INTERVENES....you make great efforts for Jack Sparrow's freedom......LIZ (a bit defensive) - these are not for Jack. Beckett: OH REALLY? (not convinced).....

OMG>..I can't go through this again....the list is endless. the vexed lines from Gibbs and Tia.....Norrington's : It's a curious thing....THe dress sinking to the bottom of the ocean....Jack telling Liz "this compass points to the think you WANT MOST IN THIS WORLD...not once does the camera show us that this compass points to Will...I don't see that....I see it point to Jack very clearly on two distinct times..on the Pearl and the beach....OMGee...

I'm tired of explaining this to people that just don't want to see it....I know what I see, I know what I believe and I have a woman's intuition...and I believe in what Keira says...she's very excited about the interesting developments between Jack and her character.....but if it doesn't go that way...will I be devastated....probably not...just disappointed that so much time was spent in DMC developing this to just have it all thrown away in AWE....and to say that Jack was a bump in the road...well, that's not a very nice thing to do to this very lovable character....
and as far as the 1 million.....the reveiws that I have read tell me that it's all about the action, the interesting chemistry that evolved between Liz and Jack...and JOHNNY DEPP.....and those are the facts.....and EVEN THE CREATORS OF THIS MOVIE HAVE SAID THIS TIME AND TIME AGAIN........JOHNNY DEPP AND JACK SPARROW ARE WHAT MAKE THIS TRILOGY....TAKE HIM OUT THE MIX AND YOU JUST HAVE A REGULAR OLD BOX OFFICE FLOP.....SURE YOU HAVE GOT TO HAVE OTHER CHARACTERS TO SUPPORT THE MAIN CHARACTER...BUT REALLY WITHOUT JOHNNY'S GREAT PORTRAYAL OF JACK...NOT REALLY SURE HOW MUCH FUN THIS MOVIE WOULD BE...AND MANY, MANY CRITICS HAVE SAID THIS OVER AND OVER......CUZ THE FIRST TIME I SAW IT...I MUST ADMIT, I WASN'T ALL THAT IMPRESSED.....BUT SOMETHING ABOUT JACK/JOHNNY MADE ME WANT TO GO SEE IT AGAIN AND THE SECOND TIME AROUND I STARTED SEEING ALL THESE CLUES AND SYMBOLISMS AND WAS AMAZED WHEN I GOT ON THIS FORUM AND REALIZED HOW MANY OTHER PEOPLE HAD THE SAME THOUGHTS AND FEELINGS.....

LMAO duh!

I think you're scared, bc all you give is the same crap over and over again. Whilst we give you the same meaning but different patterns of Jack/Liz.

This is why, in my belief, LovelyOne got kicked out bc of this same little argument. Im going with my friends and I trust my girls.

We are not obsessed Jack/Liz nor we are blinded. We are intelligent ppl with kick ass theories and we look into the depth of the movie. Not everything is what it sems. If my girls and I saw a WIll/Liz possibility we are so going for it and root for them. But all I see is nothing, just a timbleweed, as dry as the dessert.

My girls dont twist facts and lesss make up crap. LovelyOne got kicked out bc what she was saying was facts and patterns from the movie. Shes not a lunatic making up crap to soil the name of Disney and POTC. They were just too scared to make a combat with her. And they should be scared bc their days are numbered...May 25, 2007.

To tell everyone the truth, I won't be disappointed if at the end of AWE they don't end up together. And if for some reason they head out in different directions. But I would be pretty much happy is if we have a scene that suggests that these two character did in fact have feelings for each other. And that there are circumstances along the way that make it impossible for them to be together. Like Liz trying to prevent Will from his fate, what if she decides to marry him in order to save him. She would be acting in a selfish impulse. She would give anything in order to save fish-face,no matter if she sacrifices what she wants more in the world. I mean Willy's fate is a fact. I don't doubt that. I could see this working out on our part if they decide to make the 4th. They would leave it open for more possibilities.

speaking from when I first saw the movie..before I became obssesed with it..I honestly came out of there telling my mum "Jack and Elizabeth have much more chemistry on screen they are far more interesting to watch" this was BEFORE I was a shipper.

The second thing I said was I bet we see Jack in movie 3 a completley different man right at the end..I bet he is all cleaned up for Elizabeth.

the third thing I said was..Will didnt really show much of an interest in Elizabeth when his father came back into his life..His dad seems to be his arc now

this was after the first time I watched it and all my friends said the same thing..except the second one.

Here's what I picked up on the Will/Liz relationship in DMC:

There wedding is stopped...because they are arrested for aiding Jack Sparrow....and is Liz upset cuz she didn't get to marry Will, no, she's upset cuz she missed out on her wedding night!!!!!!!!!!!! FATE Intervened......

Her wedding dress sinks to the bottom of the ocean

They spend most of their time apart in DMC....

Liz spends the majority of her time flirting with Jack Sparrow

Liz is not concerned enough about Will to run to him when he falls to the deck of the Pearl...instead she climbs the stairs and clings to Jack Sparrow's leg....

Liz doesn't seemed to concerned about what happend to Will and his father on the Dutchman...she is more concerned that Jack "lied" to her....

She is very cold to Will in the end.....she can't look at him....she seems angry with him to me....IMO