Here's a list of clues that I think Disney puts in the movie on purpose for us (the audience) to take notice of the Jack/Elizabeth relationship (they may not be noticed the first time, but on a second viewing they are very evident):
1. Will and Liz's wedding is stopped due to them being arrested for helping _JACK. It's a horrible rainy day...Liz looks like she's at a funeral rather than a wedding....she looks like she is in mourning....
2. Lord Beckett's comment to Liz when she has him at gunpoint making him sign the letters of marque...."Take into your calculations that you have robbed my of my wedding night," He says..."Ah yes, a wedding interupted...or fate intervenes...You seem to be taking great efforts to ensure the freedom of Jack Sparrow" Liz responds, "These are not for Jack", and Beckett says, "oh really? Then for Will Turners' freedom, either way I will still need that compass..." (okay, so here he is hinting that fate has intervened to stop her from marrying the wrong man)
3. We See Jack burst out of a coffin in the opening scene...then we learn from Marty that the Captain has been acting strang(er)...and Gibbs tells us "something's got Jack vexed...." Jack's compass is working...he should want to find the key to find the chest...but it's not what his heart wants most in this world...
4. When Jack is at the desk in his cabin aboard the Pearl...we see the compass spinning..I think we are to assume it stops on Port Royal (even Ted has told us this on KTTC), then it refers back to Movie 1 to let us know what Jack is thinking of...."why is the rum always gone"...movie 1 -"but why is the rum gone" - him and Liz on the island....
5. When the group visits Tia's cabin --Will tells her they need to find the key, Tia says to Jack "the compass you bartered from me, it cannot lead you to this?" and Jack says, "Maybe, Why?" Tia smiles and says, "Ahh, Jack Sparrow don't know what he want, or maybe he do know but is loath to claim it as his own....." (IMO, this means he wants Elizabeth but cannot claim her for his own..but at the same time doesn't want to want her - and Ted even told us this is true on KTTC)
then when she tells them of the story of Davy Jones, Tia says "He was a great sailor unitl he ran afoul of something that VEXED him." Tia says it is something that vexes all men, and Will asks "What vexes men?" Gibbs offers "The sea" and the other two pirates offer some answers and Jack says "A woman". Tia then says, "A woman. He fell in love with a woman. A woman as changing, as harsh and as untameable as the sea.....he couldn't live with the pain, yet he could not die, so he cut him heart out..." (It's kind of ironic that Jack knew that it would be a woman that would vex a man....and we knew from earlier from MR. Gibbs that something's got Jack vexed...these two lines are in here for a reason --they are clues)
6. When Norrington notices that Liz is smiling after her persuade me conversation with Jack...."Curious thing..there was a time when i would have given anything for you to look like that while thinking about me..", Liz responds, "I don't know what you mean." Norrie says, "Oh, I think you do." Liz responds "Don't be absurd I trust him that's all" and Norrie starts to walk off then turns back and says, "So you never wondered how your latest finace ended up aboard the Flying Dutchman in the first place." He shakes his head and laughs.
Here Elizabeth opens the compass and it points to Jack....earlier Jack tells Elizabeth point blank that the compass points to the thing you want most in this world....
and speaking of that scene..
7. The compass scene....the chemistry between Jack and Liz cannot be denied...I know they are talking about the compass...but when Jack says "it points to the thing you want MOST in this world" - he glaces down at her lips/LIZ herself....then she knows what he is refering to cuz she gets that giddy, flirty look on her face (not frustration) and says "Oh Jack, are you telling the truth"....."every word, luv"....then he holds her hand and places the compass in them....
8. On the beach, The compass once again points to Jack and she gets aggravated saying "This compass does not work and it certainly doesn't show you what you want most." Norrington knows the compass pointed to Jack and they show a shot of Norrington rolling his eyes with an expression that says "Oh Please, just admit that you want the guy and stop kidding yourself."
9. Back on the Pearl....Jack leaves in the longboat...we see that LIZ is the one who spots him out there...then we see his conscience get the best of him...he looks at his compass....and then there he is back on the Pearl..and the first person he sees is LIZ...she looks up to him and he surrounded by a halo of light...he picks up the rifle and she climbs up the stairs and clings to his leg...she doesn't run down the steps to check on Will and hold onto Will after he has taken a hard fall from the cargo net....
10. Jack is very solemn in this final scene..very serious, very sexy, very manly...very brave and very good.....he tells Gibb..."abandon ship into the longboat"....Gibbs says, "Jack, the Pearl." and Jack responds (about a ship he has risked his life for, that he fought through hell and high water to claim) "SHE"S ONLY A SHIP, MATE"...
11. Liz approaches Jack "THank you, Jack"...and he says, "We're not free yet, luv"....the serious, endearing way he is looking at her takes my breath away....so romantic....
12. She chains him to the mast....but she is torn up about it..she even moves in for a second kiss....I think that is the big clue that she is doing this to him to take away the temptation..it's a selfish impulse....
and this all reflects back to the curiosity conversation...
Jack knows he wants Liz but doesn't know how to claim it...
IMO The Compass is the central theme of this movie, there is so much emphasis put on the compass....
Beckett wants the compass..
Tia wants to know why the compass isn't helping Jack to locate the chest (if that is what he wants most in this world),
Jack explains the compass to Liz in a very sensual scene to me - just the way he is looking at her, the way he place the compass in her hand....,
Liz holding the compass and it pointing to Jack each time....
Jack holding the compass in the long boat and showing back up on the Pearl to save the day...
You know something else I've been thinking about....It's not so much that Jack's not a good sailor, I mean look how he outsmarted the Commodore when stealing the Interceptor - to me that is one of Jack's finest moments "that's got to be the Best Pirate I have ever seen." and commodore: "And so it would seem." I love that part - the smile Jack flashes over his shoulder - and then when he tells will "Can you sail under the command of a pirate, or can you not?" all of Jack's clever plans run afoul - because of who? Stupid Bloody Will!!! I love that part on the deleted scenes on the island - he must say that to Elizabeth about three times....
anyways, I think Jack's problem is deep down inside he is too much of a good man - just as Barboorsa accuses him of in POTC 1 - he tells Jack that's his problem, he's too kind hearted, basically....Barboorsa says a man's easier to deal with dead...or something like that...
Because he is a good man - he is tricked twice by what vexes him most - Elizabeth - she tricks him into getting drunk and then she tricks him with the Kiss....Jack is very vunerable with Elizabeth - who would have ever thought that the roguish, happy go-lucky Pirate could be so vexed by a woman - it's kind of interesting isn't it? HA Love it....can't wait to see POTC 3 and how this will all shape out....
Attached Image (Click for original):
Surreal Wrote:
{Also, Jack's reason for putting Will on the Flying Dutchman was to get the key. Jack knew what DJ was like, and he knew that there was a distinct possibility that Will could die, or if Will saw what the Dutchman truly looked like, he would not have agreed to go.}
I agree and disagree...yes, Jack sent Will to get the key...but, he also knew Will's father was on that boat...I believe that every plan that looks selfish by Jack..is actually done for the good of every one...just like in POTC 1...Jack knew Will would be safe..he knew Davy would never accept the life of Will in exchange for his soul, and he knew Bootstrap would look out for Will and he knew that while Will was over there bonding with his Dad, then he could search for the chest without Will getting the way...he also showed confidence in Will...he had to know Will would get the key, he believed in Will
{Jack was not going to give the compass to Will...he was selfish and TRICKED Will into getting the key. In much the same way as Jack used Norrington's men in the first movie, he used Will in the second movie.}
No...wrong..Jack knows that the compass is unique...Jack is very smart. If Will needed the compass in exchange for Liz' freedom...then he had to know that someone with evil intent wanted it...if he hands it over to Will, then it could endanger not only himself but countless others once Beckett gets control of the chest and the heart of Davy..he couldn't let the compass fall into anyone's hand...besides, Will was also being selfish wanting the compass for himself and Liz if you are going to get technical...Will knows Beckett wants the compass and he also knows Beckett wants Jack for some unfinished business????
{Jack also used Elizabeth to find the chest...because he knew how to manipulate her feelings and get her to do what he wanted. She wanted to find Will, but he convinced her to find the chest. *shrug* It's not much of a difference, but it is a difference.}
But aren't Will and Liz using Jack too - they are using Jack to escape the hangman's noose...so they are also being manipulative and selfish...
you would think though..That Jack would hate her for this. But he doesnt 😂
thats what gets me..First time she did it to him he was angry yes..he almost shot her, she was very bitter towards him..but the second time? Its so different
1. He's not angry. He's calmer than ever. He's smiling and this is an honest emotion because when he's silent he is at his most honest. He's loving it.
2. She's not angry..she's weak in the knees and trying not to kiss him again
It just shows you how far things have developed between the two since movie 1 and the firt betrayal.
Its like she tried to be angry like last time...as if she thought she could do it without caring..but no..things have changed. She leaves him yes. But its so different..she found it so hard.
It also suggests that jack was going to stay this time and do the right thing without her having to make it happen ..He's changed too.
Its actually proof that Jack has changed because something is diferent in his life since last time. Last time when he was laid bare he had nothing to fall back on after everything was gone..so we see him react like a little child who's security blanket has been snatched away when Liz does that to him..she totally took advantage and he felt totally naked and shamed..he had basically lost it and went crazy because now he's just Jack..he's forced to be Jack and there is nothing to cling on to..this is why its so dangerous for Jack the way he lives..Material objects and rum cant keep you brave and strong..its all false..how the hell is he gonna survive in a world if he cant be a pirate anymore?..On that beach scene after everything is gone..and Elizabeth is being so cold to him. He's forced to face the reality he obviously hates..he's ALONE and he cant hack it...he cant handle it....he knows that wothout his material things..all thats left is himsef and NOTHING..and NOBODY to cling onto to feel safe.
second time she does it..he desnt really CARE all that much?? anyone else notice that?
he behaves totally different...because this time he feels he has something to fall back on despite being tricked..he has nothing yet he has something..something MUCH better..he's laid bare AGAIN only this time he can hack it when everything is taken away from him because he feels he has Elizabeth now...he doesnt need Objects to feel strong and brave anymore.
I'm so surprised Elizabeth didn't realise till much later how different he behaved there..she was probably so caught up in the aftershock of how good the kiss felt to her...I dont think she realised he loved her enough to stay for her...That is obviously what hits her like a ton of bricks later on in Tia's hut.
So to sum that up..Jack builds up this image, he is so protective over his material things, he doesnt want them to be lost and taken away because if they are taken away he has to face the fact that he is so painfully alone as a human being. That is why his whole image is so important to him I think...he doesnt want to face up to the truth so he fills his life with lies(brave, fearless and happy pirate) and inanimate objects which boast greatness...
movie 2? He has someone and the keeping up of the image is no longer important to him
He's so tragic underneath. He really is IMO
so in the novelization of DMC, Norrington calls Jack out in the 3 way swordfight and says "You just want Elizabeth for your own."
I wonder if perhaps this will be in deleted scenes from the movie!!!!! that would make me so happy to look for Jack's reaction, and Will's!!!!
Plus, that would change the way I see Will's reaction to the kiss. If he already had a suspicion, it would change everything.
Lots to read through...
Ok, basically, my argument is this:
Yes, there is a lot of tension between Jack and Elizabeth. Yes, they look like they could be a couple, and yes, there is an obvious connection between them. That is all undeniable.
The interpretations of what people believe is symbolic of a J/E ending are really what are up for debate. To me, there is a lot of symbolism in the movie, yes, but I don't necessarily see it as J/E winding up together.
Ummm....I'm battling a fever here (still, *sigh*), so a lot of this is probably going to not make sense, so bear with me....
I'm not going to pick out ALL of the things that people pick out to be J/E, but I will use the wedding dress as an example. It's a bit plot-devicy to me, mainly to do two things...one, to set up the breaking point of Will and Elizabeth ever returning to Port Royal (Will already lost his wedding coat by this point as well).
Both Will and Elizabeth traded their wedding clothes for more piratey garb, and I believe truly that even if W/E end up together, they probably will not be returning to Port Royal.
Eh...I had more but I'm running out of steam and I'm going to collapse over the keyboard here any minute, so I'll try to write something more coherent later.
Just to note, this is not a J/E bashing theory, this is a J/E "I don't agree with you" theory, so please do not get angry at me for not agreeing...
Oh, and LovelyOne, your drawing is really good, but there is a little mistake....
Will comes up from behind J/E/N, not in front of and to the side. He comes up probably about....meh....10? 20?feet to the right (if you are facing the same direction as the actors) from where Jack was standing on the grassy sand dune. But it's a good drawing. 😄
Aye^^ and the sea creatures come up from behind J/E too exactly where Will did...after the Dutchman sinks to the N/E of the scene.. Will probably got round there before them..but only about 5 - 10 minutes before...and the dutchman only just sinks after Liz is looking at the compass, throws it down ans says her line, Jack says she's sitting on the chest..THEN the dutchman sinks (behind a blockage) we learn something Liz doesnt 🙂 the compass really IS working for her 😂 What she wants most is Jack.
BTW..Will kept on his wedding clothes...I think
also he doesn't distinctly come round from the right at all. Its more centered than anything.