Cap is superhuman, its official!!!!!

Originally posted by Martian_mind
?you asked for a quote,what i said he said is basically a quote,he stated that he saw Superman wthout limits and that he can do anything.

just pointing out we shouldn't use writers statements as conclusive evidence...even good ones,as Stan lee himself has said he thinkls Hulk can beat Superman 😬

Yeah but theres nothing wrong with my quote. What Bru said is consistent with his showings in comics.

Again maybe you took the Supermna quote out of context read what I said.

Does Stan write for Superman?

Bru writes for Cap and has written for Btamn so he is more qualified to talk.

All things being equal what a writer said is usually good evidence.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Yeah but theres nothing wrong with my quote. What Bru said is consistent with his showings in comics.

Again maybe you took the Supermna quote out of context read what I said.

Does Stan write for Superman?

Bru writes for Cap and has written for Btamn so he is more qualified to talk.

All things being equal what a writer said is usually good evidence.

what was said about supes is fairly consistent,as he really hasn't shown a cap.

but still i'd use actual scans rather then a writers statement as proof.

Originally posted by Martian_mind
what was said about supes is fairly consistent,as he really hasn't shown a cap.

What?

Originally posted by Martian_mind

but still i'd use actual scans rather then a writers statement as proof.

Are you havin a laugh? Just look at Caps feats.

Originally posted by Alfheim
What?

Are you havin a laugh? Just look at Caps feats.

I was saying seeing as Cap has feats to match the statements,i'd use the feats rather then then the statement.

or i might just be screwing around,you can't really tell,can you 😛

Originally posted by Martian_mind
I was saying seeing as Cap has feats to match the statements,i'd use the feats rather then then the statement.

or i might just be screwing around,you can't really tell,can you 😛

Originally posted by Alfheim
Well I actually kinda got the impression you were trying to wind me up. 😐

oh silly,would i do that? 😉

Originally posted by Martian_mind
oh silly,would i do that? 😉

angrymob Get him! 😂

batman's also DC, where the term peak human can be interpreted differently. also, in marvel, the two main "peak humans" [cap and BP] achieved their status through vastly different means than batman. that's like comparing red apples to green apples, and saying because the red apple is, for whatever reason, "beyond" green, it's a super apple.

and, as was said, brubaker's opinion doesn't equate to official edict. cap is still the pinnacle of human potential in the classic, non-mutatable sense. thus, peak human.

Originally posted by Disappear
batman's also DC, where the term peak human can be interpreted differently. also, in marvel, the two main "peak humans" [cap and BP] achieved their status through vastly different means than batman. that's like comparing red apples to green apples, and saying because the red apple is, for whatever reason, "beyond" green, it's a super apple.

No the the difference is that Cap trains all the time and has the SSS. Batman trains all the time but does not have SSS, so Cap is highier. Your analogy does not work. Heres a better one. Batman is a green apple, but Cap is a green apple grown with stereoids or some artfical means, therefore Cap is the stronger apple.

Furthermore the writers for JLA vs Avengers said that Cap was better than Batman. 2 writers vs your opinion is better. So basically no Cap is above Batman.

Originally posted by Disappear

and, as was said, brubaker's opinion doesn't equate to official edict.

Well to tell the truth you can see he was just messing with me a bit. Im sure what a writers says is not official all the time but its not a bad piece of evidence.

Originally posted by Disappear

cap is still the pinnacle of human potential in the classic, non-mutatable sense. thus, peak human.

Again this depends on what you mean by peak human. But the fcat of the matter is that Cap is above Batman in stats. If you still see that as "peak" human fine. This is just becoming semantics.

and, as was said, brubaker's opinion doesn't equate to official edict. cap is still the pinnacle of human potential in the classic, non-mutatable sense. thus, peak human.

Correct but peak human potential. Batman peak athlete, Daredevil peak athlete, Hawkeye peak athlete.

Captain America enhanced peak potential

Black Panther enhanced peak potential

Both Batman and Daredevil are not at the preternatural level that enhance beings enjoy.

If regular men such as Batman/Daredevil/Hawkeye/could reach such high potential just from training. Then there wouldn't have been much of a point for "Operation Rebirth" to create such "Super-Soilders". As the Doctor Erstein stated this will be the first of men unlike the world has "never" seen before. The perfect man the next step in human "evolution."

yet he didn't say supermen, or superhuman. wonder what that could mean.

batman being weaker or physically inferior to captain america isn't any contradiction to the idea that cap is peak human. captain america, thanks to his training and super-soldier serum and vita-rays was fast-forwarded to the pinnacle of human potential. virtually the same process occurred with black panther and the heart-shaped herbs; with additional side-effects. just because others, such as daredevil or batman, aren't at their level doesn't mean their level is unattainable. batman is considered DC's perfect physical specimen, in terms of human potential, but forcing a translation from another company to prove captain america being superhuman is nonsense. and daredevil's never been outright labelled a "peak human." saying the fact that captain america is above him proves cap's superhuman also doesn't make sense, as the comparison can't apply.

it seems we are at semantics at this point. you believe that, due to comparisons to other characters, captain america must be superhuman; especially if no other human character has reached his level through training alone. i, on the other hand, believe he's still the peak human he was designed to be because certain comparisons are hardly proof, and the fact that he hasn't been "caught up to" doesn't mean it's impossible, or that he's de facto superhuman.

Originally posted by Disappear
yet he didn't say supermen, or superhuman. wonder what that could mean.

Yeah?

Originally posted by Alfheim

"See, I never understand why everyone gets so worked up about this stuff. Cap was given the Super-Soldier Serum. The first word there is SUPER.

Originally posted by Disappear

batman being weaker or physically inferior to captain america isn't any contradiction to the idea that cap is peak human. captain america, thanks to his training and super-soldier serum and vita-rays was fast-forwarded to the pinnacle of human potential. virtually the same process occurred with black panther and the heart-shaped herbs; with additional side-effects. just because others, such as daredevil or batman, aren't at their level doesn't mean their level is unattainable.

Oh ok then Proffesor X is peak human then is he? Moondragon taught herself to have vast psionic powers and Dr Strange has psionic powers as well.

Originally posted by Disappear

batman is considered DC's perfect physical specimen, in terms of human potential, but forcing a translation from another company to prove captain america being superhuman is nonsense. and daredevil's never been outright labelled a "peak human." saying the fact that captain america is above him proves cap's superhuman also doesn't make sense, as the comparison can't apply.

1.

Originally posted by Daredevil1

If regular men such as Batman/Daredevil/Hawkeye/could reach such high potential just from training. Then there wouldn't have been much of a point for "Operation Rebirth" to create such "Super-Soilders". As the Doctor Erstein stated this will be the first of men unlike the world has "never" seen before. The perfect man the next step in human "evolution."

2. Its very simple Captain Americas abilities are not normally obtainable, thats the whole point of the SSS. He is above what is normally possible for a human and therefore is superhuman.

Originally posted by Disappear

it seems we are at semantics at this point. you believe that, due to comparisons to other characters, captain america must be superhuman; especially if no other human character has reached his level through training alone.

Can you reach Spidermans level through training? So why isnt Spiderman peak human then? (Im not talking about climbing walls and shooting webs, im talking about strength and reflexes)

Originally posted by Disappear

i, on the other hand, believe he's still the peak human he was designed to be because certain comparisons are hardly proof,

Well you agree that Cap is above Batman why isnt Spiderman peak human?

Originally posted by Disappear

and the fact that he hasn't been "caught up to" doesn't mean it's impossible, or that he's de facto superhuman.

According to your logic Professor X and Spiderman are peak human. In fact the Supreme Intelligence said that all human beings well have vast psionic powers so yeah Professor X is peak human. 😂

The whole point of the defintion of superhuman is beyond human. Cap clearly is above what is normally obtainable for humans but despite this cannot be considered to be superhuman, illogical.

normally obtainable does not mean unobtainable. like i said, just because noone else has gotten there doesn't mean it's impossible; doesn't make him a de facto superhuman. assuming such is logical fallacy.

i don't understand how what i said could possibly be twisted to say spider-man and xavier are peak humans. i clearly said captain america is a peak human in the non-mutatable sense, which automatically rules out comparison to those who get their powers through mutation; genetic or through an outside influence. xavier and spider-man were mutated.

what it seems like you're doing is making illogical assumptions about what i'd said. it's entirely possible that the human race has the potential for telepathic powers; whether or not they are on the level of xavier is dubious. so, i suppose it is entirely possible that xavier is at "peak human" levels of telepathic ability, if that is indeed within humanity's potential. he achieved those powers through a shortcut, the x-gene, just like cap got his through a shortcut, the super-soldier serum.

spider-man, though. that doesn't make any sense. considering i specifically said that cap is the pinnacle of human physical ability, it would be directly contradictory to say that spider-man [someone capable of lifting at least two dozen times the amount of weight captain america can] is also peak human. where did that come from?

and the word "super" being in the name of the serum doesn't really have any effect on the outcome. it's a name. they could call it the ultimate soldier serum, or the really cool soldier serum, and it'd have the same effects. arguing that point is like arguing that the rhino is actually a rhinoceros. i mean "rhino's" right in the name. you can't seriously be hinging an argument on something that trivial.

I demand that Cap now be moved to low meta! madshakefist

Originally posted by Disappear
normally obtainable does not mean unobtainable. like i said, just because noone else has gotten there doesn't mean it's impossible; doesn't make him a de facto superhuman. assuming such is logical fallacy.

i don't understand how what i said could possibly be twisted to say spider-man and xavier are peak humans. i clearly said captain america is a peak human in the non-mutatable sense, which automatically rules out comparison to those who get their powers through mutation; genetic or through an outside influence. xavier and spider-man were mutated.

what it seems like you're doing is making illogical assumptions about what i'd said. it's entirely possible that the human race has the potential for telepathic powers; whether or not they are on the level of xavier is dubious. so, i suppose it is entirely possible that xavier is at "peak human" levels of telepathic ability, if that is indeed within humanity's potential. he achieved those powers through a shortcut, the x-gene, just like cap got his through a shortcut, the super-soldier serum.

spider-man, though. that doesn't make any sense. considering i specifically said that cap is the pinnacle of human physical ability, it would be directly contradictory to say that spider-man [someone capable of lifting at least two dozen times the amount of weight captain america can] is also peak human. where did that come from?

and the word "super" being in the name of the serum doesn't really have any effect on the outcome. it's a name. they could call it the ultimate soldier serum, or the really cool soldier serum, and it'd have the same effects. arguing that point is like arguing that the rhino is actually a rhinoceros. i mean "rhino's" right in the name. you can't seriously be hinging an argument on something that trivial.

Originally posted by Disappear
normally obtainable does not mean unobtainable. like i said, just because noone else has gotten there doesn't mean it's impossible; doesn't make him a de facto superhuman. assuming such is logical fallacy.

Look heres the problem. The very defintion of the word superhuman means beyond human levels. You just admitted that Caps capabilities are not normally obtainable from training and that makes you superhuman, but you've decided now that doesnt mean superhuman.

Why is that? This is your main point. Just because something is not NORMALY obtainable does not mean its superhuman. Ok so is Professor X superhuman? Well you might call him a mutant but yes hes superhuman. Can you gain Professors Xs powers from training? Yes you can:

1. The tibetan monks in Marvel have psionic powers. They were shown creating force fields to stop bullets. The head of the Tibetan monks was able to create dimensional portals. Now assuming that the tibetan monks are based on the real world monks im assuming that they got their powers from training and not genetic manipulation.

2. Moondragon has vast psionic powers and gained them from training and not genetic manipulation.

3; Doctor Strange has psionic power as well. He did not gain them from genetic manipulation but from training.

4. All the other hundreds of other humans who have gained psionic powers from training. Cant remember them all but its probably quite alot.

So now according to your flawed defintion Professor X is now peak human.

Originally posted by Disappear

it's entirely possible that the human race has the potential for telepathic powers; whether or not they are on the level of xavier is dubious.

Irrelevant. Having any sort of psionic powers regardless of how powerful its is makes you superhuman and all humans have the power to do it.

Originally posted by Disappear

i suppose it is entirely possible that xavier is at "peak human" levels of telepathic ability,

Actually we can end this debate here. This is you admitting that im right. If you come back and tell me im being illogical i'll just pull this quote.

Originally posted by Disappear

if that is indeed within humanity's potential.

Any human is capable of having psionic powers in present day MU and in the past.

Originally posted by Disappear

he achieved those powers through a shortcut, the x-gene, just like cap got his through a shortcut, the super-soldier serum.

Irrelevant. Having pisonic powers is normally considered to be superhuman according to your defintion if you can gain it from training then its not superhuman.

Originally posted by Disappear

i don't understand how what i said could possibly be twisted to say spider-man and xavier are peak humans. i clearly said captain america is a peak human in the non-mutatable sense, which automatically rules out comparison to those who get their powers through mutation; genetic or through an outside influence. xavier and spider-man were mutated.

Let me get this straight right? Captain America is not comparable to Spiderman because he gained his powers from and outside influence but isnt that how Cap got his abilities? Cap may not be "mutated" but he gained his powers from an outside influence. Wow.

Originally posted by Disappear

spider-man, though. that doesn't make any sense. considering i specifically said that cap is the pinnacle of human physical ability, it would be directly contradictory to say that spider-man [someone capable of lifting at least two dozen times the amount of weight captain america can] is also peak human. where did that come from?

Because all humans can train themselves to have psionic powers. If some human beings can train themseles to create force fields and have telekinetic powers why cant you use psionics to make you superstrong? Molly Hayes is a psionic and thats how her powers work (Please dont tell me shes a mutant the point is her powers can be replicated from training psionics her powers are a form of telekinesis) So spidermans strength levels are not normally obtainable from training but can be achieved.

Originally posted by Disappear

and the word "super" being in the name of the serum doesn't really have any effect on the outcome. it's a name. they could call it the ultimate soldier serum, or the really cool soldier serum, and it'd have the same effects. arguing that point is like arguing that the rhino is actually a rhinoceros. i mean "rhino's" right in the name. you can't seriously be hinging an argument on something that trivial.

My good god man. You said he didnt use the word super, I gave you an example. Why on earth did you think he put SUPER in block letters and then gave an example of Cap doing something superhuman (running as fast as a breeze)?

Thats why they call it Super soldier Serum because thats what it does. So the fcat that its got SUPER in it and makes you do superhuman acts is irrelevant. Incredible.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Especially since Super simply means "beyond". So the serum just makes it so a person is beyond what they normally can do. No matter who takes it. Spiderman could take it and he'd improve.

.....and if it takes you beyond what is normally capable of a human being that makes you superhuman...........

IMO I think mostly this debate comes from misunderstanding from one another.

Captain America is Peakhuman. To call him that is "correct".

But to call him Super-Human in comparison to regular men such as Daredevil, Batman etc. Is also correct. He was created to be superior to these athletes. That alone by our standards makes him Super, Preternatural, etc etc.

But he still is the peak of human potential at the end of the day.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
IMO I think mostly this debate comes from misunderstanding from one another.

Maybe but the point is that we all agree that Cap is above people like Batman and DD. That makes you superhuman, being above what is normally obtainable by humans, but now all of a sudden it isnt.

The reason given is because just because its not normaly obtainable doesnt mean that it cant. This is illogical because as I have stated Professor X can be considered to be peak human because humans can train themselves to have his powers

Originally posted by Daredevil1

Captain America is Peakhuman. To call him that is "correct".

But to call him Super-Human in comparison to regular men such as Daredevil, Batman etc. Is also correct. He was created to be superior to these athletes. That alone by our standards makes him Super, Preternatural, etc etc.

But he still is the peak of human potential at the end of the day.

Totally agree.

Is this about Cable or Cap? Cap is peakhuman.

Its about Cap. Yeah Cap is peak human but as far as Cap fans are concerned thats superhuman.