Originally posted by Alfheim
Its about Cap. Yeah Cap is peak human but as far as Cap fans are concerned thats superhuman.
Isn't Peak Human however, supposed to be as close to superhuman as possible, without actually being superhuman.
I would pass cap as "Enhanced" Human, seeing as how he has been enhanced.
However, not truly superhuman.
Originally posted by Apolloknight
Isn't Peak Human however, supposed to be as close to superhuman as possible, without actually being superhuman.I would pass cap as "Enhanced" Human, seeing as how he has been enhanced.
However, not truly superhuman.
peak
enhanced
superhuman
Enhanced is what Wolverine and Sabretooth is. It's not possible for humans to reach that level.
Originally posted by llagrok
peak
enhanced
superhumanEnhanced is what Wolverine and Sabretooth is. It's not possible for humans to reach that level.
First of all, yes wolverine is enhanced, but Sabretooth IS superhuman.
Next my friend, What is the definition of "Peak Human"!!???
Easy, it is defined by marvel as being as close to Superhuman as possible, without actually being it.
This is why marvel says Peak Human, also includes the "Enhanced" human range. After all, the likes of Cap, BP, and wolverine have all been enhanced in some way (Weapon X, SSS, Heart Shaped Herb).
To put it in Numbers, if low level superhuman is 10, then Peak human as to be 9.9. As that is as close has a human can get without being Superhuman.
Well, its not possible for normal humans to get to that peak human status through training alone. Lets say daredevil is an 8, he is highly trained, but not enhanced. In order to be enhanced you have to have some outside help, some herb, or some serum, or some crazy science project.
Basically, Peak human = Enhanced Human.
Originally posted by Apolloknight
Well, its not possible for normal humans to get to that peak human status through training alone. Lets say daredevil is an 8, he is highly trained, but not enhanced. In order to be enhanced you have to have some outside help, some herb, or some serum, or some crazy science project.Basically, Peak human = Enhanced Human.
that's a misconception based around poor logic. while enhanced humans may be lumped into "peak human" range, by your logic, that doesn't make all peak humans "enhanced." it's one of many expressions that imply a false relationship between two things. all elephants are grey, not everything grey is an elephant; all eagles are birds, not all birds are eagles. etcetera etcetera.
again, simply because it hasn't happened doesn't mean it's impossible and doesn't rule it out as a natural "peak" to human potential.
the idea that "superhuman" simply means being able to accomplish something the mean of humanity cannot or have not is also a gross misconception. there are those among us who are ambidextruous, which is something the vast majority cannot claim. it is, however, something we could accomplish given the proper training or disposition; meaning it's still within human potential. the same applies to all aspects of captain america's character, given that he's meant to epitomize the pinnacle of human potential.
Originally posted by Apolloknight
Isn't Peak Human however, supposed to be as close to superhuman as possible, without actually being superhuman.
Well lets put it this way right. The defintion of superhuman is beyond what is normally obtainable for humans and thats what Cap is. If you can run 60miles per hours its superhuman but obvoulsy its not as super as Spiderman. Also the max that Cap could lift not under duress is a superhuman amount its at least 1500lbs, doesnt matter how you spin being able to lift 1500lbs is a superhuman amount.
Originally posted by Apolloknight
I would pass cap as "Enhanced" Human, seeing as how he has been enhanced.
That its the most accurate defintion. The reason why he is probably called peak human is because the SSS boosts the human body to maximum efficiency for example eliminating lactic acid.
Originally posted by Apolloknight
However, not truly superhuman.
Not an unreasonable statement.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Well that says it all right there.
Well if you take what I say out of context, of course you would say that.
Originally posted by Disappear
again, simply because it hasn't happened doesn't mean it's impossible and doesn't rule it out as a natural "peak" to human potential.
Which therefore means that according to your logic Professor X or anybody with psionic powers is peak human not superhuman.
Originally posted by Disappear
i suppose it is entirely possible that xavier is at "peak human" levels of telepathic ability, if that is indeed within humanity's potential.
I also gave plenty of evidence to show you that all humans have the ability to have psionic powers but you compleletly ignored it.
Originally posted by Disappear
the idea that "superhuman" simply means being able to accomplish something the mean of humanity cannot or have not is also a gross misconception.
I tell you what you give us a better defintion then, because all your doing is saying that our defintion is crap and not giving us an alternative. If thats a bad definition you give us a better one, because if you really thought about what you said that means all psionics are not superhuman.
Even the dictionary fits our defintion of superhuman.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/superhuman
1. above or beyond what is human; having a higher nature or greater powers than humans have: a superhuman being.
2. exceeding ordinary human power, achievement, experience, etc.: a superhuman effort.
Now all of a sudden that above doesnt mean superhuman....wow.
Originally posted by Disappear
there are those among us who are ambidextruous, which is something the vast majority cannot claim. it is, however, something we could accomplish given the proper training or disposition; meaning it's still within human potential. the same applies to all aspects of captain america's character, given that he's meant to epitomize the pinnacle of human potential.
Wow lets compare ambidextrous to running as fast as a breeze, running at 60 miles per hour. Obvoulsy when we mean beyond human levels we mean by a significant amount. Again the examples sucks because people have been able to train themselves to be ambidextrous but nobody has run at 60 miles per hour. 🤨
You dont need to take a serum to be ambidextrous but you need one to run 60mph.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Which therefore means that according to your logic Professor X or anybody with psionic powers is peak human not superhuman.I also gave plenty of evidence to show you that all humans have the ability to have psionic powers but you compleletly ignored it.
if by plenty of evidence, you mean you said you thought you remembered the supreme intelligence saying something about humans having psionic potential, then you're right. it's entirely possible that all humans could naturally develop psionic powers on xavier's level, which would accordingly mean xavier is at the peak human level of telepathic ability. if you actually want to show some evidence, in the literal sense of the word, i could speculate further. and saying "any psionic power makes you superhuman," and then saying all humans can attain psionic powers is a contradiction, by the way.
Originally posted by Alfheim
I tell you what you give us a better defintion then, because all your doing is saying that our defintion is crap and not giving us an alternative. If thats a bad definition you give us a better one, because if you really thought about what you said that means all psionics are not superhuman.Even the dictionary fits our defintion of superhuman.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/superhuman
1. above or beyond what is human; having a higher nature or greater powers than humans have: a superhuman being.
2. exceeding ordinary human power, achievement, experience, etc.: a superhuman effort.Now all of a sudden that above doesnt mean superhuman....wow.
you realize that the definition you provided just proved the analogy you attempted to disprove below, right? it's like you're tripping on your own feet.
we already had this discussion, by the way. you believe that because his strength and other stats are not normally physically attainable, they're automatically superhuman; intentionally neglecting the fact that they are still within humanity's potential. just because they haven't occurred yet doesn't mean it's impossible, nor does it mean that they automatically exceed human potential; thus becoming "superhuman."
Originally posted by Alfheim
Wow lets compare ambidextrous to running as fast as a breeze, running at 60 miles per hour. Obvoulsy when we mean beyond human levels we mean by a significant amount. Again the examples sucks because people have been able to train themselves to be ambidextrous but nobody has run at 60 miles per hour. 🤨You dont need to take a serum to be ambidextrous but you need one to run 60mph.
if the serum put him at the pinnacle of human potential, then you DON'T need a serum to replicate what he did. you have to come to the pinnacle of human potential in some other way. trying to compare a relatively small feat to a more respectable one, thus disproving a premise, doesn't amount to jack when the principle of both is the same. also, i truly doubt cap's ever hit sixty miles per hour.
in the end, i think it's really just a blind fixation on the term "superhuman" that's got you incapable of wrapping your head around what i'm saying.
Originally posted by Disappear
if by plenty of evidence, you mean you said you thought you remembered the supreme intelligence saying something about humans having psionic potential, then you're right.
No there was alot more than that, you didnt read it did you? Im not just talking about the future but the present humans as well.
1. The tibetan monks in Marvel have psionic powers. They were shown creating force fields to stop bullets. The head of the Tibetan monks was able to create dimensional portals. Now assuming that the tibetan monks are based on the real world monks im assuming that they got their powers from training and not genetic manipulation.
2. Moondragon has vast psionic powers and gained them from training and not genetic manipulation.
3; Doctor Strange has psionic power as well. He did not gain them from genetic manipulation but from training.
4. All the other hundreds of other humans who have gained psionic powers from training. Cant remember them all but its probably quite alot.
Originally posted by Disappear
it's entirely possible that all humans could naturally develop psionic powers on xavier's level, which would accordingly mean xavier is at the peak human level of telepathic ability. if you actually want to show some evidence, in the literal sense of the word, i could speculate further. and saying "any psionic power makes you superhuman," and then saying all humans can attain psionic powers is a contradiction, by the way.you realize that the definition you provided just proved the analogy you attempted to disprove below, right? it's like you're tripping on your own feet.
we already had this discussion, by the way. you believe that because his strength and other stats are not normally physically attainable, they're automatically superhuman; intentionally neglecting the fact that they are still within humanity's potential. just because they haven't occurred yet doesn't mean it's impossible, nor does it mean that they automatically exceed human potential; thus becoming "superhuman."
if the serum put him at the pinnacle of human potential, then you DON'T need a serum to replicate what he did. you have to come to the pinnacle of human potential in some other way. trying to compare a relatively small feat to a more respectable one, thus disproving a premise, doesn't amount to jack when the principle of both is the same. also, i truly doubt cap's ever hit sixty miles per hour.
in the end, i think it's really just a blind fixation on the term "superhuman" that's got you incapable of wrapping your head around what i'm saying.
To be quite honest I think you dont understand what im saying and you are taking what I said out of context. So heres two questions.
1. Does having psionic powers make you superhuman?
2. Why?
P.S. Cap has run 60 miles per hour before and can see bullets in slow motion.
Originally posted by AlfheimI didn't have to, you basically just said it all. He's peak, but you guys don't think so. I have no need to change anything. Nothing wrong with having your own beliefs, as long as you try to support it. Again, I think he can do superhuman things, but not as easy as a "superhuman" can.Well if you take what I say out of context, of course you would say that.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I didn't have to, you basically just said it all. He's peak, but you guys don't think so.
Er yeah we do, but we dont think hes Batman with a shield or a glorified athelete.
Hes superhuman by the broad defintion. More accurately hes enhanced in Marvel terms.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I have no need to change anything. Nothing wrong with having your own beliefs, as long as you try to support it.
Running 60mph and it wasnt a sprint he was running at that speed for an hour. Seeing bullets in slow motion?
Originally posted by Disappear
the lowest levels of superhuman strength start around 1000 pounds, according to references made to both quicksilver and toad. peak human strength is approximately 800 lbs. and it's a very rare thing for weights to actually be mentioned on-panel, such as "there's captain america lifting 1100 pounds." some people, when researching respect threads, look up real-life equivalents to what they see, but that doesn't mean that that is the intended weight limit by the writer or artist.
Anyway doesnt really matter because I already proved the above statement wrong, because I already showed Cap doing reps with 1100lbs.
If you can do ten reps of 1100lbs you can do one rep 1500lbs. Thats 500lbs into the superhuman range.
Originally posted by Alfheim
To be quite honest I think you dont understand what im saying and you are taking what I said out of context. So heres two questions.1. Does having psionic powers make you superhuman?
2. Why?P.S. Cap has run 60 miles per hour before and can see bullets in slow motion.
i did read it, i just found your evidence conflicting, so i toned it down for my recitation.
and, as i've said [i believe this will be the third time] whether or not psionic powers make you superhuman depends, as you brought up, on what powers, and to what levels those power go, within human potential. moondragon learned them from scratch, as did various other characters. whether that's an all-encompassing ability for humanity, one that only needs to be cultivated, makes the difference between whether a certain level of psionic ability is superhuman, or within human potential [read: peak human.] because that's what peak human is. the pinnacle of human potential.
again, it's all semantics that you're getting upset over. you think superhuman is a fluid, subjective term used strictly in comparison to other humans; hence, something "normally" unattainable. whereas i prefer a stricter definition meaning beyond the bounds of human potential. that's my prerogative, kid. just like yours. it's entirely possible for you to just let sleeping dogs lie and quit trying to tell me i'm wrong, and in turn, i could do the same for you.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Anyway doesnt really matter because I already proved the above statement wrong, because I already showed Cap doing [B]reps with 1100lbs.If you can do ten reps of 1100lbs you can do one rep 1500lbs. Thats 500lbs into the superhuman range. [/B]
and, as i asked when this was originally brought up, i'd still love to know from what issue that came. i wouldn't mind finding out where his sixty miles per/in one hour feat came from, either.
Temugin and Stick are flat out "Superhuman" and they are just regular humans who reached such a level by training.
Temugin can channel his chi in several manners and reduced Ironmans armor to scrap in there encounter. He even removed all his rings to make it a fair fight for Ironman. And he's not even enhanced like Captain America.
Stick has shown mystical martial art abilities by absorbing life force, casting illusions, telepathy, moving by spirit even even coming back to life after dying. He's the guy who taught Daredevil.
My opinion on Cap in comparison to most not all, most on the likes of great athletes Daredevil, Batman, Hawkeye. He is a super in comparison to them. Of course that level is human potential in itself as well.
Now you do think he's peak, you just said he isn't. Which one is it?
Originally posted by AlfheimYou can't say that humans in the MU are different than in the real world, and then say that he's superhuman by real world terms, we understand that and it makes your argument conflict itself.
Er yeah we do, but we dont think hes Batman with a shield or a glorified athelete.Hes superhuman by the broad defintion. More accurately hes enhanced in Marvel terms.
Running 60mph and it wasnt a sprint he was running at that speed for an hour. Seeing bullets in slow motion?
Cap doesn't produce lactic acid, and just about all comic characters have made bullets pushovers in comics, there's a difference between dodging a bullet and a marksman missing. 99% of the time it's the latter.
Originally posted by Disappear
and, as i've said [i believe this will be the third time] whether or not psionic powers make you superhuman depends, as you brought up,
on what powers, and to what levels those power go, within human potential. moondragon learned them from scratch, as did various other characters. whether that's an all-encompassing ability for humanity, one that only needs to be cultivated, makes the difference between whether a certain level of psionic ability is superhuman, or within human potential [read: peak human.] because that's what peak human is. the pinnacle of human potential.
Yes I agree with that. Most humans have the ability to have some sort of psionic power or magical power, but if you look at the showings of humans every power can be replicated through psionics or magic. Its is unlikely that every single human being will be able to be as powerful as Pro x or Dr Strange they could be considered to be exceptional or peak. Thats why Dr Strange is Sorcerer Supreme ie there are other sorcerers but he is the best.
I guess the problem is I dont believe that you think that really, because you defined superhuman strength as starting from 1000lbs. If you think that superhuman strength is 1000lbs why on earth would you consider Pro X to be peak human?
Originally posted by Disappear
again, it's all semantics that you're getting upset over. you think superhuman is a fluid, subjective term used strictly in comparison to other humans; hence, something "normally" unattainable.
Yes.
Originally posted by Disappear
whereas i prefer a stricter definition meaning beyond the bounds of human potential. that's my prerogative, kid. just like yours. it's entirely possible for you to just let sleeping dogs lie and quit trying to tell me i'm wrong, and in turn, i could do the same for you.
Do you realise that you cannot give me an example of any human (person from earth, aliens are humanoids) with powers that cannot be gained from other means such as magic or pisonics, because this is what you said.
Originally posted by Disappear
again, simply because it hasn't happened doesn't mean it's impossible and doesn't rule it out as a natural "peak" to human potential.
If you actually think about what you said then class 100 strength can be considered to be peak human but thats not what you think is it? The ability to fly can be peak human, is that what you think? In fact all the earths heroes are peak human. If Prof X can be peak human then anything is possible
So please give me a specfic example of somebody you consider to be superhuman.
Originally posted by Disappear
and, as i asked when this was originally brought up, i'd still love to know from what issue that came.
No you didnt when I first showed you the scans of him doing reps with 1100lbs you disappeared, how does that look to you? This is what is irritating me you already defined superhuman strength as starting from 1000lbs I provided the evidence and you didnt say jack now your coming back here saying hes NOT superhuman. What would you think?
As for the issue number I had it but i'll have to search for it. 😂
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Now you do think he's peak, you just said he isn't. Which one is it?
You define peak human as a glorified athelete. Is that how I define it?
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
You can't say that humans in the MU are different than in the real world, and then say that he's superhuman by real world terms, we understand that and it makes your argument conflict itself.
No it doesnt what it means is that superhuman is exceptional but its something which can be obtained through other means ie meditating for years .
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Cap doesn't produce lactic acid, and just about all comic characters have made bullets pushovers in comics, there's a difference between dodging a bullet and a marksman missing. 99% of the time it's the latter.
Cap has dodged bullets after they have fired and blocked them. Not all characters can dodge bullets after they have been fired eg Nick Fury, Punisher etc.