Kas'im versus Count Dooku

I've not seen anything that makes me believe (for a moment) that Kas'im has anything close to the command and mastery of the Force (both sides) that Count Dooku possesses.

When has Dooku ever shown the ability to protect himself from attacks that destroyed a massive Temple that is 20 meters tall and almost a hundred meters wide? PoD' clearly stated that Kas'im was able to protect himself from Bane's Force attack. We also know from PoD that Kas'im very strongly values Force Shields and his has shown itself to be strong enough to stop anything Dooku could through at him.

Dooku is Yoda's greatest protege, and one of the very, very, very best in the Order's history. If I were to speculate, I'd say he'd be in the top ten of its greatest students.

Top ten Jedi ever? Perhaps. If you include the NJO Jedi it's less likely that he's in the top ten. Regardless, it doesn't make him stronger than Kas'im.

He served under Yoda and Sidious, who mastered the Force in a far more powerful way than anyone in Kas'im's time did.

Is that so? Sidious mastered the Force to a greater extent than anyone in Kas'im's time by DE, but not as of when Dooku was serving him. Same with Yoda. The difference isn't great and certainly doesn't make Dooku better than Kas'im.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
I think you miss the part where Kaan originally took over because he was the strongest-hence his original philosophy- and when things went badly for him, he created the Brotherhood and ditched his 'The strong shall Survive' philosophy.

in an all out fight with the Force, Kaan would've killed Kas'im. Kas'im was not the strongest Sith in the order. If he was, he'd have become the Dark Lord after he killed Na'Daz

Well here's what we know to be fact.

Kas'im was the best lightsaber duelist alive.

Kas'im was able to protect himself from everything Bane could through at him and Bane was able to fully resist all of Kaan's mental influencing.

In short, Kas'im can protect himself from anything Kaan could through at him with the Force and would rape him in a saber fight.

If Kas'im was able to take the blast unscathed why didn't he get out of the temple before it fell on his head. You're confusing 'defending' and 'surviving'

And we also know from PoD that most can use force shields.

Oh, and no, Yoda and Palpatine are firmly> Anyone of Kas'im's time. By TPM he was stronger than Bane. How do we know? Heritage of the Sith calls him the pinnacle of power and tradition of over a thousand years, and the Dark Side Sourcebook calls him the strongest in over a millenia, as well as the strongest Bane's Order had produced-this referred to when he was still planning before even AOTC

Regardless, nobody is arguing DOoku's force superiority. The argument has come down to saber combat, which Kas'im would have.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Well here's what we know to be fact.

Kas'im was the best lightsaber duelist alive.

Kas'im was able to protect himself from everything Bane could through at him and Bane was able to fully resist all of Kaan's mental influencing.

In short, Kas'im can protect himself from anything Kaan could through at him with the Force and would rape him in a saber fight.

Right, because Kas'im's mastered all seven forms, blah blah blah.

I'd be amazed if Kas'im was on par with Mace. the good Count's shown himself as more than a contender against Kas'im

When has Dooku ever shown the ability to protect himself from attacks that destroyed a massive Temple that is 20 meters tall and almost a hundred meters wide? PoD' clearly stated that Kas'im was able to protect himself from Bane's Force attack. We also know from PoD that Kas'im very strongly values Force Shields and his has shown itself to be strong enough to stop anything Dooku could through at him.

Could this shield stop Force lightning? If it can, I'm impressed, considering how I'm not aware of anyone doing that. Can Kas'im generate Force lightning? Because Dooku can. And on a considerable level.

The databank refers to Dooku as "one of the most powerful practitioners of the Force" due to his eight decades of studying it.

Top ten Jedi ever? Perhaps. If you include the NJO Jedi it's less likely that he's in the top ten. Regardless, it doesn't make him stronger than Kas'im.

Perhaps? Lol. The man was heralded for his ability. He was one of the very best in the most proficient era of lightsaber combat (the PT). With all the crap that Yoda and Mace have said about his abilities, as well as what we have seen, he's definately one of the very, very, very, very, very best.

Is that so?

Yes, it would be so.

Sidious mastered the Force to a greater extent than anyone in Kas'im's time by DE, but not as of when Dooku was serving him. Same with Yoda. The difference isn't great and certainly doesn't make Dooku better than Kas'im.

Please. As LS said, there are numerous sources that have stated Sidious was, at the very least, the strongest in a millenium - and the most powerful of Bane's order (which includes Bane).

As of Dark Empire? He'd curbstomp Kas'im and Bane at the same time.

Yoda? Please. Yoda's got 900 years of mastering the Force. Kas'im's not close. Bane and Revan might be. But that's pushing it.

Escape, I was being abrupt. Like someone who cays "case closed" doesn't actually mean the case is closed.

Anyway, DS, if we're not arguing Dooku is better than Kas'Im in The Force, then what are we arguing? I mean...this fight doesn't say just lightsabers only. What is stopping Dooku from pwning Kas'Im with The Force? Opening post did say "duelists" I guess....

and the Dark Side Sourcebook calls him the strongest in over a millenia, as well as the strongest Bane's Order had produced-this referred to when he was still planning before even AOTC

Hmm, I just searched through this with Adobe Reader, and couldn't find any of these quotes. Interesting...

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Right, because Kas'im's mastered all seven forms, blah blah blah.

I'd be amazed if Kas'im was on par with Mace. the good Count's shown himself as more than a contender against Kas'im

What the hell do you mean you'd be impressed if he was on par with Mace? It's more than LIKELY that he was. Yoda was also a master of all 7 forms of combat and he was just that much superior to Mace. But Kas'im isn't because he isn't in the PT? Please...

Really? Why? because he was 'the master' of all seven forms? What would he do when faced with Vaapad?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Really? Why? because he was 'the master' of all seven forms? What would he do when faced with Vaapad?

Well golly gee lighsnake, the SAME thing Sidious did when he faced Vaapad. The same thing Yoda would do. Question is what would Mace do against Jar'kai, or a double blade?

He'd most likely be pretty prepared considering there were jedi in the order who wielded those weapons.

Considering Mace is a master jar'kai duelist himself, I doubt he'd be outmatched

Mace is a Master of jar'kai? Where is this said?

On Haruun Kal, Mace uses two sabers, as does Depa

Originally posted by Lightsnake
On Haruun Kal, Mace uses two sabers, as does Depa

lightsnake's distorted logic states "well if he uses it, he MUST be a master of it".

considering it's Mace ****ing Windu and the text refers to his 'mastery', I wonder how I could EVER have gotten that.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
considering it's Mace ****ing Windu and the text refers to his 'mastery', I wonder how I could EVER have gotten that.

Omg, it's Mace Windu!!! That means he's a master of ALL! You know, Kas'im mastered all 7 forms of combat.. You know how? Well, not because he's ****ing Kas'im, but because the text said he mastered all 7 forms of combat.

I'm out for Dooku here, but before that Can I sucesfully say Battlemasters know all forms? or do I have to still argue for that. I'm quite tired of it already and I given a lot of proof saying they do.