There is absolutely NOTHING, nor ANY evidence to suggest that Dooku or Kyle mastered all 7 forms. Stop speculating, you're not making a cogent argument. Not to mention there is NO proof Dooku was anything more than a Sith Lord.
Wow, are you stupid? What is the point of a Battlemaster (or as Escape says, Lightsaber Instructor) if they don't know all the forms. Besides Juyo/Vapaad, Dooku has mastered every form. If a Jedi Master like Depa was chosen for Battlemaster or Plo Koon, they cannot be it because if a Jedi wanted to learn Niman or Ataru, they can't properly teach them because they only specialize in one form.
Wookipedia's definition of Battlemaster:
"Battlemaster (or Sword Master) was the title for a head lightsaber combat instructor of the Jedi Order. During the Clone Wars, Cin Drallig was the Jedi Temple's premier battlemaster. Under the New Jedi Order, Kyle Katarn was the battlemaster.
While Cin Drallig, as a member of the Old Jedi Order, had received formal training by other Jedi, Katarn was mostly self-taught. However, he did receive formal training in general fencing while he was a cadet at the Imperial Academy at Carida, and also learned many techniques from the spirits of Qu Rahn and the ancient Jedi Tal in the Valley of the Jedi such as the Flowing Water cut and the Falling Leaf attack.
Not to be confused with the Jedi trainers (who taught students in the ways of the Force), the Jedi battlemaster solely taught students in the way of lightsaber combat. The primary trainers of how to both defend against and, when necessary, assault a foe, the Jedi battlemaster not only had to have deep knowledge of all combat styles, but also had to have mastered them with considerably advanced skill.
Accordingly, the title of battlemaster was bestowed to a rare few; one battlemaster represented each Temple or Academy within the Order. Generally, however, there was only one battlemaster at a time. A successor was usually chosen after the current battlemasters' retirement or death. ""
As you can see the highlighted sections, the Battlemaster is a powerful rank and given only to best swordsmen.
1. Not in the novelization
Movie beats out novelization.
95% corrct? Hardly.
Wrong, Wookiepedia is factual most of them. The fact that it isn't official canon stops me from putting 99%. Wookiepedia gives more in depth analysis and info on characters than SW Databank. Even if somebody spams in it, they clear it out very soon. You, my friend, can't accept the fact that Wookie backs my argument.
Again, where does it say Dooku was a battlemaster?
From Wookie and there was a book that said it:
""During his time as an instructor within the Jedi Temple, his teachings on methods for conquering arrogance were particularly well received. He was fond of telling his students""
Simply knowing all the moves and sequences does not necessarily mean you mastered the styles. Kas’im stated, mastering does not mean being able to use the sequences of each form of saber dueling, but to allow the darkside to fill the force user and truly guide the lightsaber in the chosen form. Simply being a battlemaster and knowing all the sequences does not equate to mastering the styles.
Duh. I am just proving to some people that being a Battlemaster is quite an honorable rank to hold, saying that you are quite skilled. Of course, Dooku is going to win with his Makashi.
And? Bane unleashed a blast of energy that ripped apart a temple, but PoD stated that Kas’im was able to block such an attack. If you want to argue that choking and tossing a knight is on the same level as annihialating an entire temple, brick by brick…be my guest.
Dooku does not have to use the Force to defeat Kas'Im. All he needs to do is go for Cho Sun (cutting out opponent's hand) and then Kas'Im is defenseless.
Is this it? In any case, Dooku was on the ground, and Skywalker was “looking down at him,” not actually fighting. Again, in an arena battle, it is an assumption that the combatants will be doing anything other than fighting.
He just booted by Anakin, and even though he would dazed, he was able to FULLY HEAL himself (not just renew himself a little bit) but make as if he was fully fresh and ready to battle. And Anakin came right upon him. In the movie you Anakin kicking Dooku and then jumping at him, thus the only time he could have done the healing is when spun to ground and spun his lightsaber.
Originally posted by Prodigal Knight
[B]Wow, are you stupid? What is the point of a Battlemaster (or as Escape says, Lightsaber Instructor) if they don't know all the forms. Besides Juyo/Vapaad, Dooku has mastered every form. If a Jedi Master like Depa was chosen for Battlemaster or Plo Koon, they cannot be it because if a Jedi wanted to learn Niman or Ataru, they can't properly teach them because they only specialize in one form.
"Battlemaster (or Sword Master) was the title for a head lightsaber combat instructor of the Jedi Order. During the Clone Wars, Cin Drallig was the Jedi Temple's premier battlemaster. Under the New Jedi Order, Kyle Katarn was the battlemaster.While Cin Drallig, as a member of the Old Jedi Order, had received formal training by other Jedi, Katarn was mostly self-taught. However, he did receive formal training in general fencing while he was a cadet at the Imperial Academy at Carida, and also learned many techniques from the spirits of Qu Rahn and the ancient Jedi Tal in the Valley of the Jedi such as the Flowing Water cut and the Falling Leaf attack.
Accordingly, the title of battlemaster was bestowed to a rare few; one battlemaster represented each Temple or Academy within the Order. Generally, however, there was only one battlemaster at a time. A successor was usually chosen after the current battlemasters' retirement or death. ""As you can see the highlighted sections, the Battlemaster is a powerful rank and given only to best swordsmen.
Movie beats out novelization.
Duh. I am just proving to some people that being a Battlemaster is quite an honorable rank to hold, saying that you are quite skilled. Of course, Dooku is going to win with his Makashi.
Dooku does not have to use the Force to defeat Kas'Im. All he needs to do is go for Cho Sun (cutting out opponent's hand) and then Kas'Im is defenseless.
I believe, DS, that Prodigal has provided sufficient evidence that makes it quite clear that Count Dooku was, at the very least, extremely adept in all of the lightsaber forms. As have I.
You and Zephiel have not provided a shred of a counterargument to refute it.
I think that you should be mature enough to consent that point.
Originally posted by Escape81
I believe, DS, that Prodigal has provided sufficient evidence that makes it quite clear that Count Dooku was, [B]at the very least, extremely adept in all of the lightsaber forms. As have I.You and Zephiel have not provided a shred of a counterargument to refute it.
I think that you should be mature enough to consent that point. [/B]
I don't have to refute it, aside from wikipedia, you guys have absolutely NO evidence. "Oh he was a battlemaster he MUST have known all 7 forms". At the very MOST it is possible he was familiar with all the forms, at MOST. There's nothing to even remotely suggest he was a master of all 7, or even half of them.
You don't have ANY proof about Kyle learning all 7 forms, not to mention it's unclear if the NJO Jedi used even 1 or 2 of the old forms, since they were lost during the Jedi Purge.
Yeah sure all right. Kyle Katarn DID KNOW all the forms as Battlemaster of the NJO. The NJO used three forms, but still he matches the description of BM which I have been trying to get through your thick skull.
And yet, Yoda>>>Dooku, as Dooku has admitted several times.
Wrong, that would mean Yoda would horribly pawn Dooku. No, Yoda and Dooku are not that far apart and pretty close.
OMG that's SOOO Logical. Kas'im is going to just stand there and get his hand cut off. Let me use YOUR logic. All Kas'im has to do is cut off Dooku's head, and he wins!
Yet, Dooku knows the technique of Cho Sun. If he can cut of Kas'Im's arm, then the Twi'Lek master is screwed. Does Kas'Im know Cho Sun? And yes, Dooku does not need to use the Force while fighting (like when he fights against Yoda), he just needs to utilize his awesome Makashi skilz.
I don't have to refute it, aside from wikipedia, you guys have absolutely NO evidence. "Oh he was a battlemaster he MUST have known all 7 forms". At the very MOST it is possible he was familiar with all the forms, at MOST. There's nothing to even remotely suggest he was a master of all 7, or even half of them.
Wow, you don't get it do you. There is not going to be a source that says "Oh Darth Sexy, you're wrong. Battlemaster's know all forms."
It is implied. With logic, it is pretty obvious that a battlemaster knows several forms.
Originally posted by Prodigal Knight
Yeah sure all right. Kyle Katarn DID KNOW all the forms as Battlemaster of the NJO. The NJO used three forms, but still he matches the description of BM which I have been trying to get through your thick skull.
Wrong, that would mean Yoda would horribly pawn Dooku. No, Yoda and Dooku are not that far apart and pretty close.
Yet, Dooku knows the technique of Cho Sun. If he can cut of Kas'Im's arm, then the Twi'Lek master is screwed. Does Kas'Im know Cho Sun? And yes, Dooku does not need to use the Force while fighting (like when he fights against Yoda), he just needs to utilize his awesome Makashi skilz.
Originally posted by Prodigal Knight
Wow, you don't get it do you. There is not going to be a source that says "Oh Darth Sexy, you're wrong. Battlemaster's know all forms."It is implied. With logic, it is pretty obvious that a battlemaster knows several forms.
No no no, YOU said he knew ALL the forms. Make up your mind? This isn't logical deduction, it's mindless speculation with different versions of the truth.
I don't have to refute it, aside from wikipedia, you guys have absolutely NO evidence.
What other source than wikipedia and LOE (which says Dooku was lightsaber instructor, or was it a different book).
Even Databank doesn't have an article on Battlemasters. Are you going to say that Battlmasers dont exist then. Wrong, wookie has given a logical proof that BM's know all forms.
Originally posted by Prodigal Knight
What other source than wikipedia and LOE (which says Dooku was lightsaber instructor, or was it a different book).Even Databank doesn't have an article on Battlemasters. Are you going to say that Battlmasers dont exist then. Wrong, wookie has given a logical proof that BM's know all forms.
Sorry that you don't know how to logically debate. Here's your argument
According to a Wikipedi source(we can debate its authenticity in terms of canon), all Battlemasters know all forms
Dooku, was a battlemaster
Therefore he knows all forms..
There's a lot wrong with your theory.
No no no, YOU said he knew ALL the forms. Make up your mind? This isn't logical deduction, it's mindless speculation with different versions of the truth.
Okay Sexy, since you're so stupid that you can't even understand simple terms of English:
Jedi Battlemaster's know all forms, and they are skilled and proficient in all these forms (except Juyo/Vapaad, which only Mace and his apprentices know, so that doesn't count).
Originally posted by Prodigal Knight
Okay Sexy, since you're so stupid that you can't even understand simple terms of English:Jedi Battlemaster's know all forms, and they are skilled and proficient in all these forms (except Juyo/Vapaad, which only Mace and his apprentices know, so that doesn't count).
Juyo is a regular form. And you still haven't proven he knows all forms with a reliable source.
Originally posted by Prodigal Knight
Okay Sexy, since you're so stupid that you can't even understand simple terms of English:Jedi Battlemaster's know all forms, and they are skilled and proficient in all these forms (except Juyo/Vapaad, which only Mace and his apprentices know, so that doesn't count).
That would mean they DONT know all 7 forms you jackass LOL...You really are an idiot.. Here's another example of your argument
All A's are B's and all B's are C's..
Therefore all A's are C's.
See the flaw there? If you don't, then there's no point in debating for you.
According to a Wikipedi source(we can debate its authenticity in terms of canon), all Battlemasters know all forms
Dooku, was a battlemaster
Therefore he knows all forms..
The Law of Detachment I have used.
According to Wookiepedia, Battlemasters know all forms.
Dooku was a Battlemaster.
Thus he knows all forms.
Yes, what's wrong with that?
That would mean they DONT know all 7 forms you jackass LOL...You really are an idiot.. Here's another example of your argument
Oh my god, literally nobody knows Vapaad except Mace and three other Jedi. It's not even a main form taught by Jedi. So just because they don't know Vapaad, they don't know any other form!!!
Wrong, Juyo is an incomplete form and Vapaad was rarely used.
Originally posted by Prodigal Knight
Oh my god, literally nobody knows Vapaad except Mace and three other Jedi. It's not even a main form taught by. So just because they don't know Vapaad, they don't know any other form!!!Wrong, Juyo is an incomplete form and Vapaad was rarely used.
Juyo is a form.. Sidious knew it, Maul knew it. Therefore your logic is flawed before you even begin arguing that Battlemasters knew all the forms. So much for your Wikipedia source.