Originally posted by Prodigal Knight
FEW FORMS!!! He knows everything besides Vapaad/Juyo. You're just assuming that because he doesn't know a form only Windu and his crew knows, he only knows a few forms. WTF??
Again, you have not proven he knows all forms. I will bring back my other argument. By your logic, because I instruct middleweights, I should be able to train heavyweights. Not the case.
Originally posted by RocasAtoll
Again, you have not proven he knows all forms. I will bring back my other argument. By your logic, because I instruct middleweights, I should be able to train heavyweights. Not the case.
I'm gonna call BS
Boxing =/= Lightsaber Training
The difference with you and Dooku is you Training Middle weights (I'd assume) Middleweights have a different training regime from say Flyweights or Heavyweights because of their body types, A Heavyweight can't throw 200+ Punch's per round like the lighter weights can because of their bodies limit them to around 60 or so. Thus different types of physiques different types of training, different instructor for each class. With Lightsaber training everyone is pretty much physically equal, and with the aid of the force can adjust to any physical limits, Everyone getting the same training = a hole in your logic as in boxing every fighter has a different training regime. I don't know maybe I'm just rambling...
Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
I'm gonna call BSBoxing =/= Lightsaber Training
The difference with you and Dooku is you Training Middle weights (I'd assume) Middleweights have a different training regime from say Flyweights or Heavyweights because of their body types, A Heavyweight can't throw 200+ Punch's per round like the lighter weights can because of their bodies limit them to around 60 or so. Thus different types of physiques different types of training, different instructor for each class. With Lightsaber training everyone is pretty much physically equal, and with the aid of the force can adjust to any physical limits, Everyone getting the same training = a hole in your logic as in boxing every fighter has a different training regime. I don't know maybe I'm just rambling...
True with the boxing, but lightsaber fighting is much like that. Makashi is a set of precise movements that rely on agility, while Djem So, relies on very heavy swigs as shown by Anakin, Form 3 relies on patience and endurance, wating for the right moment to strike, etc., ect.
Lightsaber forms are very much different like boxing forms are. They take varying degrees of strength, patience, and agility. So, that kinda does destroy your argument.
I doubt that Dooku knows all of the forms. For one, he calls Ataru ridiculous. I doubt someone as prideful as Dooku would take time to learn something that he calls ridiculous. However, he did show GG what he could expect from several different Jedi, which I think shows that he knows a little bit of each form with the possible exception of Juyo. The reason for this is because Form Six, which he problably knows pretty well like most other Jedi of his time, uses bits and pieces of his each form with the exception of Juyo and Makashi. So the only forms I think that Dooku knows are Shii Cho, Form Six (can't remember it's name), and Makashi. And the only one that he's probably mastered is Makashi. That's all he needs.
Originally posted by RocasAtoll
True with the boxing, but lightsaber fighting is much like that. Makashi is a set of precise movements that rely on agility, while Djem So, relies on very heavy swigs as shown by Anakin, Form 3 relies on patience and endurance, wating for the right moment to strike, etc., ect.Lightsaber forms are very much different like boxing forms are. They take varying degrees of strength, patience, and agility. So, that kinda does destroy your argument.
But those movements don't go hand in hand with users body type like boxing does, so its very able for Dooku to know and trian other people in different forms since with the aid of the force your own physical limits no longer matter. Its the same how Dooku can mimic Vaapad, Ataru and the other forms of the masters despite him being a 80+ year old man. That were your analogy fails.
Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
But those movements don't go hand in hand with users body type like boxing does, so its very able for Dooku to know and trian other people in different forms since with the aid of the force your own physical limits no longer matter. Its the same how Dooku can mimic Vaapad, Ataru and the other forms of the masters despite him being a 80+ year old man. That were your analogy fails.
Of course it's possible for him to teach other people the basics of the forms; I can teach the basics of heavyweights. And the force enhancement won't last forever; that's where he fails.
1.) Dooku knows Shii-Cho. Why? Because every Jedi is taught Shii-Cho.
2.) Dooku knows Makashi. Pretty obvious.
3.) Dooku knows Soresu as its defense has to be taught to Jedi
4.) Dooku knows Ataru. He has taught Qui-Gon Jinn (his apprentice), who uses it.
5.) Dooku knows Shien. He has considered Anakin to be its greatest user he has ever seen. Why can Dooku reach that conclusion? Because by teaching students as BM, he has never seen anyone reach Skywalker’s skill.
6.) Dooku knows Niman. Many members of the Order use Niman, so as BM he has to know it in order to properly teach it.
7.) While Dooku does not know Vapaad, I believe he might know elements of Juyo. While he may not teach it because it’s an incomplete form, as Battlemaster knowing Juyo is required as in case if a Jedi wanted to learn, he has to teach it.
8.) Dooku knows Jar’Kai. You see him in several pictures wielding two sabers. In addition, he probably sparred with Asajj to check on her Jar’Kai training by matching it with his.
See, Dooku knows all the forms. He definitely proves that BM’s know all forms.
Originally posted by Prodigal Knight
1.) Dooku knows Shii-Cho. Why? Because every Jedi is taught Shii-Cho.
So does everyone. They know the basics.
3.) Dooku knows Soresu as its defense has to be taught to Jedi
Where the fvck did you get this bullshit?
4.) Dooku knows Ataru. He has taught Qui-Gon Jinn (his apprentice), who uses it.
Obi used Soresu. Did Jinn teach him? NO.
5.) Dooku knows Shien. He has considered Anakin to be its greatest user he has ever seen. Why can Dooku reach that conclusion? Because by teaching students as BM, he has never seen anyone reach Skywalker’s skill.
I can say Muhammad Ali is the greatest heavyweight boxer ever. Does that make a master of heavyweight boxing? NO.
6.) Dooku knows Niman. Many members of the Order use Niman, so as BM he has to know it in order to properly teach it.
And you still haven't proven BM's need to know every form. Nice.
7.) While Dooku does not know Vapaad, I believe he might know elements of Juyo. While he may not teach it because it’s an incomplete form, as Battlemaster knowing Juyo is required as in case if a Jedi wanted to learn, he has to teach it.
You THINK wth no logic. You still haven't proven Battlemaster's know all forms with a reliable source.
8.) Dooku knows Jar’Kai. You see him in several pictures wielding two sabers. In addition, he probably sparred with Asajj to check on her Jar’Kai training by matching it with his.
Anakin used two sabers in AoTC. Does that mean he knows Jar'Kai? NO.
See, Dooku knows all the forms. He definitely proves that BM’s know all forms.
no, not even close.
So does everyone. They know the basics.
Yep. Dooku knows this form.
Where the fvck did you get this bullshit?
Well it pretty much obvious. As Younglings and Padawans and such, Jedi have to go through some training of Soresu. While Shii-Cho or their own form has defensive moves, Soresu needs to be learned so a Jedi can learn the art of defending.
In addition, let's take another Battlemaster: Cin Drallig. Dooku has stated to Grievous Jedi who could kill him, including Drallig. Grievous has been programmed with Jedi lightsaber moves and knows literally every countermove, which is why he gave Windu a good fight on the mag-lev train. If Cin Drallig can defeat Grievous, he'll probably use Soresu. Why, because Grievous can't compete it's simplicity. Otherwise, he can definately match Drallig with Jar'Kai as he is programmed with its moves.
If Drallig knows Soresu since he's BM, then Dooku does to. Dooku knows Soresu.
Obi used Soresu. Did Jinn teach him? NO.
You're are stupid. Qui-Gon Jinn taught Obi-Wan Ataru. After the Phantom Menace, Obi-Wan then switched moves. Dooku knows Ataru because he taught his apprentice that.
I can say Muhammad Ali is the greatest heavyweight boxer ever. Does that make a master of heavyweight boxing? NO.
Will you stop relating to real life? Dooku was Battlemaster. He needs to teach students how to use Shien if they ask for it. Otherwise, what's his point if he says, "Sorry. I only teach Ataru, Shii-Cho, Jar'Kai." No, he knows the form. Dooku knows Shien.
And you still haven't proven BM's need to know every form. Nice.
You don't know how to reply. What has your given statement have to do with anything I said before that. Dooku knows Niman, period.
Anakin used two sabers in AoTC. Does that mean he knows Jar'Kai? NO.
What do you think Jar'Kai is? It's the art of using two sabers. Anakin was using Jar'Kai applied with elements of Ataru.
You THINK wth no logic. You still haven't proven Battlemaster's know all forms with a reliable source.
Wookiepedia and Wikipedia, who analizes and knows MUCH MORE ABOUT SW than you my friend! In addition, LOE and several other sources.
You're not going to get a quote from Lucas saying "BM's know all forms."
You have to think about logically and sensibly say they know it, otherwise it doesn't work out.
Originally posted by Prodigal Knight
[B]Yep. Dooku knows this form.Well it pretty much obvious. As Younglings and Padawans and such, Jedi have to go through some training of Soresu. While Shii-Cho or their own form has defensive moves, Soresu needs to be learned so a Jedi can learn the art of defending.
In addition, let's take another Battlemaster: Cin Drallig. Dooku has stated to Grievous Jedi who could kill him, including Drallig. Grievous has been programmed with Jedi lightsaber moves and knows literally every countermove, which is why he gave Windu a good fight on the mag-lev train. If Cin Drallig can defeat Grievous, he'll probably use Soresu. Why, because Grievous can't compete it's simplicity. Otherwise, he can definately match Drallig with Jar'Kai as he is programmed with its moves.
No, they have Niman for that.
If Drallig knows Soresu since he's BM, then Dooku does to. Dooku knows Soresu.
It says NOWHERE Drallig knows it because he's BM.
You're are stupid. Qui-Gon Jinn taught Obi-Wan Ataru. After the Phantom Menace, Obi-Wan then switched moves.Dooku knows Ataru because he taught his apprentice that.
It's either "You're stupid" or "You are stupid".
Where does it say Dooku trained Jinn? Nowhere? Then please stop.
Will you stop relating to real life? Dooku was Battlemaster. He needs to teach students how to use Shien if they ask for it. Otherwise, what's his point if he says, "Sorry. I only teach Ataru, Shii-Cho, Jar'Kai." No, he knows the form. Dooku knows Shien.
No. Real life logic counts, you idiot. No, you still haven't provided a reliable source for that, so it's null and void.
You don't know how to reply. What has your given statement have to do with anything I said before that. Dooku knows Niman, period.
I just used that as a freepost to take a shot at the unproven cornerstone of your argument.
[qupte]What do you think Jar'Kai is? It's the art of using two sabers. Anakin was using Jar'Kai applied with elements of Ataru.[/quote]
Jar'Kari is a way of fighting with two sabers. And where the hell do you come up with this? "He used elemenys of Ataru". Where does it say ANYWHERE he dd?
Wookiepedia and Wikipedia, who analizes and knows MUCH MORE ABOUT SW than you my friend! In addition, LOE and several other sources.
You're not going to get a quote from Lucas saying "BM's know all forms."
You have to think about logically and sensibly say they know it, otherwise it doesn't work out. [/QUOTE]
Don't call me friend. My creepy Social Studies teacher did that in elementary. No, it actually doesn't. Let me give you a lesson wikipedia:
IF THEY LIST NO SOURCES, IT IS NOT RELIABLE.
No, they have Niman for that.
From Wookiepedia, "Jedi learned elements of each form, though few ever mastered all of them. "
Now about Wookiepedia and Wikipedia. Both of these websites have shown more information and more in depth analysis into each and every of their articles than Star Wars Databank. I know they are not 100% factual, but many people who debate here reply on Wookie for extra information.
Now when you Search for something at Star Wars Databank, it provides a section to what other websites say and everytime Wookiepedia is on top. If SW Databank is good, why do they need that function. Because Wookiepedia is probably the greatest website for Star Wars knowledge.
It says NOWHERE Drallig knows it because he's BM.
You idot. He was the lightsaber instructor. He just cannot use it. Soresu is a know and used form in the PT, do you think they're multiple Battlemaster's!!! No, he uses it.
And here's what Obi-Wan says about him in the ROTS novelization:
“Obi-Wan sank to his knees beside the fallen Jedi. “He was my lightsaber instructor . . .””
Obi-Wan had to learn Soresu from somebody. This shows Cin Drallig knows Soresu because he instructed Obi-Wan.
And yes, Jar’Kai is the art of using two sabers. See Wookie’s article on it, they give many sources.
And what the hell are you talking about? Wookiepedia always has at least 1 source, otherwise they don’t make an article. Stop making up shit man.
Ever since Bane’s Thought Bomb, the Jedi Order has realized the destructive nature of the Force in the wrong hands. That’s why their Force ability has deteriorated however lightsaber skills have reach a high point. Already, all the forms are developed (including Juyo). Thus to be a master of the saber in the PT Era means you are truly masterful, while being a master during Bane’s time would be slightly lesser. Dooku being one of the masterful swordsmen of his time period means he is probably one of the GREATEST swordsmen the Galaxy has ever seen.