True. But im sure Dooku learnt some nifty new tricks as well. He might not have been an active participant in actual warfare - but he still had all of his Dark Acolytes he had to train. This included sparring. Which meant he saber and force skills stayed sharp, if not got better. He was also under the training of the most powerful dark side user of the time. So, taking all this into account, and the fact Dooku has beaten Mace twice before, Dooku>Mace
For all you know, the duel between the two could have taken place a few months before the events of TPM, placing Mace at forty. And considering by this point he'd have had a good twenty-five years to hone his Vaapad and shatterpoint skills, plus the ten years between the first two episodes, I doubt he had much room to improve during the Clone Wars. Hell, we know for sure that he wasn't strong enough to simply overpower Dooku by the end of the war, seeing as how he was held off long enough that the Count could have his lackeys momentarily incapacitate him.
And I'd like to ask if anyone here has taken into account the thirteen years of training Dooku himself underwent as a Sith. Dooku's seventy years in the Temple, plus at least a good decade of training in the Sith arts would almost certainly be more beneficial in a combat scenario than simply fine-tuning already familiar techniques.
As to a duel between the two - in swordsmanship? I'd say Mace could hold his own quite well, and here's where he may have his chance to overwhelm Dooku - his shatterpoint, coupled with the unpredictable nature of his Vaapad may give him an edge here. However, it's certainly not enough to completely undermine the total mastery of a form created for the purpose of dueling, and when you factor in Dooku's undeniably greater arsenal of Force powers, I don't see Mace having a good day at all.
For all you know, the duel between the two could have taken place a few months before the events of TPM, placing Mace at forty. And considering by this point he'd have had a good twenty-five years to hone his Vaapad and shatterpoint skills, plus the ten years between the first two episodes, I doubt he had much room to improve during the Clone Wars. Hell, we know for sure that he wasn't strong enough to simply overpower Dooku by the end of the war, seeing as how he was held off long enough that the Count could have his lackeys momentarily incapacitate him.
The timeframe of the matches between Count Dooku and Mace have yet to be fully explored; the circumstances of the duels themselves haven't been elaborated. For all you know, they sparred ten times, and Dooku beat him once - as it would still mean that Dooku had defeated him before.
We also see that Count Dooku was unable to overpower Mace, too, as of that little incident on Boz Pity. Unless you're implying that Dooku's ability to have his henchmen interrupt the fight obviously speaks of superiority over Mace.
And I'd like to ask if anyone here has taken into account the thirteen years of training Dooku himself underwent as a Sith. Dooku's seventy years in the Temple, plus at least a good decade of training in the Sith arts would almost certainly be more beneficial in a combat scenario than simply fine-tuning already familiar techniques.
True; his lexicon of Force powers would have only increased in his training under Darth Sidious. It is logical to deduce that Count Dooku is Mace's superior in the Force - but there is nothing to indicate that he is superior saber wise.
Also, the last time I checked, during Revenge of the Sith, Anakin was all over him to the point that Dooku was unable to unleash a Force attack - which led to his defeat and death aboard Invisible Hand. It is logical to assume that in a scenario where Dooku is faced with an opponent of greater raw physical power, strength, and tenacity (which Mace all fits) it is unlikely that he can open himself up to use the Force without being battered to death in the process.
As to a duel between the two - in swordsmanship? I'd say Mace could hold his own quite well, and here's where he may have his chance to overwhelm Dooku - his shatterpoint, coupled with the unpredictable nature of his Vaapad may give him an edge here. However, it's certainly not enough to completely undermine the total mastery of a form created for the purpose of dueling, and when you factor in Dooku's undeniably greater arsenal of Force powers, I don't see Mace having a good day at all.
Vaapad had an extremely effective result against Darth Sidious in combat, being a Sith Lord and powerful dark sider, so I don't see how Count Dooku would fare any better. Yoda refers to Vaapad as "the most lethal lightsaber form" - implying that a sufficient wielder of that form would be more dangerous and more skilled than a wielder of Makashi. Also, Count Dooku is susceptible to a shatterpoint maneuver, and he has no defense for it.
If he can use the Force against Mace, I can see him winning. Otherwise, I see Count Dooku as having the bad day.
Originally posted by Escape81
The timeframe of the matches between Count Dooku and Mace have yet to be fully explored; the circumstances of the duels themselves haven't been elaborated. For all you know, they sparred ten times, and Dooku beat him once - as it would still mean that Dooku had defeated him before.
You are twisting its words. It never says that Mace has beaten Dooku, or that he has the power to do so. However it does quite clearly state that Dooku has, and therefore can, beat Mace. And dont argue the 'absence of proof is not proof of absence' bullsh*t. If Mace had beaten Dooku it would have stated it. You cant just assume something with no solid evidence to back you up. You have a theory, nothing more nothing less.
but there is nothing to indicate that he is superior saber wise.
Yet you have not stated anything that proves that Mace is better saber wise. Dooku has had decades more experience with a blade. No, experience isnt everything, but dont try to pass it off as if it is nothing. It is a huge plus in Dooku's favour, especially when from this experience he has sparred with the likes of Yoda, Obi-Wan, Sidious (presumably), Qui-Gon, Mace and many more. He was also the Temples Battle Master, giving him knowledge of all forms and keeping his saber skills in peak condition.
On top of this he has had the privelege of training under both Yoda and Sidious - the two greatest duellists of the era. This gives him great knowledge of fighting with both the dark and the light side of the force. He also personally trained a number of formiddable apprentices, General Greivous and Asajj Ventress come to mind. This again proves that Dooku kept his lightsaber skills fine tuned, and that just because he is old doesnt mean that his abilities went downhill.
Finally, he is described as unequaled in a classical form of lightsaber combat. This of course is Makashi, which we all know as the ultimate refinement in lightsaber to lightsaber combat. Now this specifically states it as the best from in regards to one on one duelling, therefore better than Vapaad. Wookipedia also states (although im not sure how accuratethis is) His Form II mastery, paired with his deep connection with the Force, made Dooku a nearly impossible adversary to overcome. Dooku was so well versed in lightsaber combat that he was able to hold his own against three or four opponents by himself despite the fact that Makashi was less efficient when faced with multiple opponents. i dont know how true that is but it certainly reinforces the fact that Dooku was one of the best, easily on par with Windu.
Also, the last time I checked, during Revenge of the Sith, Anakin was all over him to the point that Dooku was unable to unleash a Force attack - which led to his defeat and death aboard Invisible Hand. It is logical to assume that in a scenario where Dooku is faced with an opponent of greater raw physical power, strength, and tenacity (which Mace all fits) it is unlikely that he can open himself up to use the Force without being battered to death in the process.
Perhaps. Although I would say that Anakin is a stronger (physically) opponent than Mace, and that Djem So is a more physical form than Vapaad. There is also the fact that Anakin deeply hates Dooku, and this again makes Anakin a more dangerous opponent. Im sure if the need and opportunity presented itself, Dooku would be able to use the force to his advantage. He was able to do so against Yoda in AOTC, and Yoda is probably the fastest and most deadly duellist in the galaxy. Also take into account that Dooku fights with one hand, leaving the other hand open to force attacks.
Dooku has the advantage in force powers and is easily on par with Mace with a blade. Although I think that a straight up saber duel would end in a stalemate, therefore Dooku's force prowess would earn him the victory.
Originally posted by Rampant oxyou made a mistake, vaapad requires the amount of kinetic energy needed in djem so,
You are twisting its words. It never says that Mace has beaten Dooku, or that he has the power to do so. However it does quite clearly state that Dooku has, and therefore can, beat Mace. And dont argue the 'absence of proof is not proof of absence' bullsh*t. If Mace had beaten Dooku it would have stated it. You cant just assume something with no solid evidence to back you up. You have a theory, nothing more nothing less.Yet you have not stated anything that proves that Mace is better saber wise. Dooku has had decades more experience with a blade. No, experience isnt everything, but dont try to pass it off as if it is nothing. It is a huge plus in Dooku's favour, especially when from this experience he has sparred with the likes of Yoda, Obi-Wan, Sidious (presumably), Qui-Gon, Mace and many more. He was also the Temples Battle Master, giving him knowledge of all forms and keeping his saber skills in peak condition.
On top of this he has had the privelege of training under both Yoda and Sidious - the two greatest duellists of the era. This gives him great knowledge of fighting with both the dark and the light side of the force. He also personally trained a number of formiddable apprentices, General Greivous and Asajj Ventress come to mind. This again proves that Dooku kept his lightsaber skills fine tuned, and that just because he is old doesnt mean that his abilities went downhill.
Finally, he is described as unequaled in a classical form of lightsaber combat. This of course is Makashi, which we all know as the ultimate refinement in lightsaber to lightsaber combat. Now this specifically states it as the best from in regards to one on one duelling, therefore better than Vapaad. Wookipedia also states (although im not sure how accuratethis is) His Form II mastery, paired with his deep connection with the Force, made Dooku a [b]nearly impossible adversary to overcome
. Dooku was so well versed in lightsaber combat that he was able to hold his own against three or four opponents by himself despite the fact that Makashi was less efficient when faced with multiple opponents. i dont know how true that is but it certainly reinforces the fact that Dooku was one of the best, easily on par with Windu.Perhaps. Although I would say that Anakin is a stronger (physically) opponent than Mace, and that Djem So is a more physical form than Vapaad. There is also the fact that Anakin deeply hates Dooku, and this again makes Anakin a more dangerous opponent. Im sure if the need and opportunity presented itself, Dooku would be able to use the force to his advantage. He was able to do so against Yoda in AOTC, and Yoda is probably the fastest and most deadly duellist in the galaxy. Also take into account that Dooku fights with one hand, leaving the other hand open to force attacks.
Dooku has the advantage in force powers and is easily on par with Mace with a blade. Although I think that a straight up saber duel would end in a stalemate, therefore Dooku's force prowess would earn him the victory. [/B]
You are twisting its words. It never says that Mace has beaten Dooku, or that he has the power to do so. However it does quite clearly state that Dooku has, and therefore can, beat Mace. And dont argue the 'absence of proof is not proof of absence' bullsh*t. If Mace had beaten Dooku it would have stated it. You cant just assume something with no solid evidence to back you up. You have a theory, nothing more nothing less.
I am not twisting its words, Rampant. Come off your "I love Dooku" high horse and think rationally. But, I forgot, you're the one who said "Dooku put Mace on his @ss in the Clone Warz!!111!!", when he didn't.
I'd say you're the one who likes to twist things, not me. 😉
"You are twisting its words. It [i]never says that Mace has beaten Dooku, or that he has the power to do so.[/I]"
Hmm. Let's see what's wrong with this.
1. Dooku beat Mace in the past. They've both improved since then.
2. Where the hell does it say that Dooku has the power to beat Mace now?
3. Obi-Wan beat Vader in RotS. But, whoops! Couldn't beat him in ANH. Dooku beat Anakin before in AotC. But, whoops! Got pwned in RotS. ESB Luke got manhandled by Vader, but - guess what? - pwned Vader at the end of their duel in RotJ.
Bottom fricken line, Dooku did it in the past. Kudos to him. Says nothing that he's guarenteed a victory now.
Yet you have not stated anything that proves that Mace is better saber wise. Dooku has had decades more experience with a blade. No, experience isnt everything, but dont try to pass it off as if it is nothing. It is a huge plus in Dooku's favour, especially when from this experience he has sparred with the likes of Yoda, Obi-Wan, Sidious (presumably), Qui-Gon, Mace and many more. He was also the Temples Battle Master, giving him knowledge of all forms and keeping his saber skills in peak condition.
Mace's form > Dooku's form. Fact. It's deadliest and hardest to master, and what did Mace do? Uh, guess what! He mastered it. You seem to think that just because Dooku is trained in Makashi that is he automatically a step above everbody else. Guess what? Not so. He couldn't defeat Mace on Boz Pity. Anakin was trained in Djem So - which is technically an inferior form - and got his ass handed to him by Anakin. Then, we've got Yoda. Yoda uses Ataru, which disgusts Dooku, and yet he was unable to defeat Yoda in Attack of the Clones, and got manhandled on Vjun.
Your theory of Makashi owns all just rolled away, like Dooku's head on Invisible Hand.
And, no, he didn't spar with Sidious. Labyrinth of Evil confirmed it.
On top of this he has had the privelege of training under both Yoda and Sidious - the two greatest duellists of the era. This gives him great knowledge of fighting with both the dark and the light side of the force. He also personally trained a number of formiddable apprentices, General Greivous and Asajj Ventress come to mind. This again proves that Dooku kept his lightsaber skills fine tuned, and that just because he is old doesnt mean that his abilities went downhill.
He didn't spar or train his lightsaber skills under Sidious, only the ways of the Sith. I am aware of whom he trained. Grievous and Ventress were both skilled, yes. And yet Obi-Wan manhandled Grievous, someone who - and I quote made Dooku "hard pressed to outduel the cyborg".
I never said that Count Dooku's lightsaber skills went downhill. If anything, they got better. But, unfortunately, he can't do shit against someone who is much stronger than him, faster, and has exceeding raw power.
Finally, he is described as unequaled in a classical form of lightsaber combat. This of course is Makashi, which we all know as the ultimate refinement in lightsaber to lightsaber combat. Now this specifically states it as the best from in regards to one on one duelling, therefore better than Vapaad. Wookipedia also states (although im not sure how accuratethis is) His Form II mastery, paired with his deep connection with the Force, made Dooku a nearly impossible adversary to overcome. Dooku was so well versed in lightsaber combat that he was able to hold his own against three or four opponents by himself despite the fact that Makashi was less efficient when faced with multiple opponents. i dont know how true that is but it certainly reinforces the fact that Dooku was one of the best, easily on par with Windu.
Therefore better than Vaapad? Go back and re-read, sonny boy. On average, Makashi is a better dueling form. But, as we've seen, people with "inferior" forms have stalemated or crushed Count Dooku in a fight before. Means jack. Plus, if anything, Yoda's commentary on Vaapad even outright states that it is far more lethal.
Wookipedia is a good source, but for statements like that - unless highly supported have no bearing. And if Dooku is nearly impossible to defeat, what's that make Anakin? Or Yoda? Or Sidious?
Perhaps. Although I would say that Anakin is a stronger (physically) opponent than Mace, and that Djem So is a more physical form than Vapaad. There is also the fact that Anakin deeply hates Dooku, and this again makes Anakin a more dangerous opponent.
Anakin stronger than Mace? It is possible. But Mace can kick ass, unarmed. He's lightning quick, and likely the better fighter than Anakin - who really isn't trained in martial arts or anything of the nature as far as I know. But, in either case, Mace still has far more strength than Dooku does.
Windu's form teeters on the brink of the dark side. He fights almost just as relentlessly as Anakin does, without the adverse side effects. He keeps his tactical cool, but let's the power flow through him.
Im sure if the need and opportunity presented itself, Dooku would be able to use the force to his advantage. He was able to do so against Yoda in AOTC, and Yoda is probably the fastest and most deadly duellist in the galaxy. Also take into account that Dooku fights with one hand, leaving the other hand open to force attacks.
That didn't happen with Anakin, as Advent has proven. Anakin was all over Dooku. Dooku couldn't afford to use the Force against Anakin, because he'd have been broken. He had to use all of his power to try to keep Anakin at bay.
And, when did Dooku ever use the Force against Yoda during a saber fight? Yoda was in a saber lock and Dooku used the Force against Anakin and Obi-Wan - who were unconscious and unarmed. Given that Dooku fought Yoda as a means of attempting to prove his superiority, methinks that if Dooku thought he could successfully attack Yoda - he would've. But he didn't.
Dooku has the advantage in force powers and is easily on par with Mace with a blade. Although I think that a straight up saber duel would end in a stalemate, therefore Dooku's force prowess would earn him the victory.
Dooku has the advantage in offensive Force powers. Unfortunately, he's not Yoda or Sidious, so I don't see him overpowering Mace strictly with the Force, and likewise, if Mace can handle Sidious's power (though from an inferior position) he can sure as hell handle Dooku's. And, no, if anything - Mace has the advantage in saber combat.
2. Where the hell does it say that Dooku has the power to beat Mace now?
3. Obi-Wan beat Vader in RotS. But, whoops! Couldn't beat him in ANH.
Dooku beat Anakin before in AotC. But, whoops! Got pwned in RotS.
ESB Luke got manhandled by Vader, but - guess what? - pwned Vader at the end of their duel in RotJ.
Bottom fricken line, Dooku did it in the past. Kudos to him. Says nothing that he's guarenteed a victory now.
Mace's form > Dooku's form. Fact. It's deadliest and hardest to master, and what did Mace do? Uh, guess what! He mastered it.
He couldn't defeat Mace on Boz Pity.
Anakin was trained in Djem So - which is technically an inferior form - and got his ass handed to him by Anakin.
Then, we've got Yoda. Yoda uses Ataru, which disgusts Dooku, and yet he was unable to defeat Yoda in Attack of the Clones, and got manhandled on Vjun.
And if by manhandled you mean managed to graze twice, across the arm and abdomen, then sure, he was flat-out owned.
He didn't spar or train his lightsaber skills under Sidious, only the ways of the Sith. I am aware of whom he trained. Grievous and Ventress were both skilled, yes.
And yet Obi-Wan manhandled Grievous, someone who - and I quote made Dooku "hard pressed to outduel the cyborg".
Second - you seem to be ignoring the fact that General Grievous isn't Force-sensitive. Against the high-calibre Jedi, like Mace Windu and Kit Fisto, he really can't do much. It's in the lesser Jedi that he becomes the infamous killing machine he's known to be.
Third - Mace happened to find the General's blows to be the strongest and fastest he'd ever had to encounter, so Dooku being hard-pressed shouldn't mean much. And, we often find Dooku lecturing Grievous on his style - the number of moves it took for the cyborg to overwhelm his guards seems to pale in comparison to Dooku's flick of a wrist.
I never said that Count Dooku's lightsaber skills went downhill. If anything, they got better. But, unfortunately, he can't do shit against someone who is much stronger than him, faster, and has exceeding raw power.
Therefore better than Vaapad? Go back and re-read, sonny boy. On average, Makashi is a better dueling form. But, as we've seen, people with "inferior" forms have stalemated or crushed Count Dooku in a fight before. Means jack. Plus, if anything, Yoda's commentary on Vaapad even outright states that it is far more lethal.
Wookipedia is a good source, but for statements like that - unless highly supported have no bearing. And if Dooku is nearly impossible to defeat, what's that make Anakin? Or Yoda? Or Sidious?
Anakin stronger than Mace? It is possible. But Mace can kick ass, unarmed. He's lightning quick, and likely the better fighter than Anakin - who really isn't trained in martial arts or anything of the nature as far as I know. But, in either case, Mace still has far more strength than Dooku does.
That didn't happen with Anakin, as Advent has proven. Anakin was all over Dooku. Dooku couldn't afford to use the Force against Anakin, because he'd have been broken. He had to use all of his power to try to keep Anakin at bay.
And, when did Dooku ever use the Force against Yoda during a saber fight? Yoda was in a saber lock and Dooku used the Force against Anakin and Obi-Wan - who were unconscious and unarmed.
Dooku has the advantage in offensive Force powers. Unfortunately, he's not Yoda or Sidious, so I don't see him overpowering Mace strictly with the Force,
and likewise, if Mace can handle Sidious's power (though from an inferior position) he can sure as hell handle Dooku's.
And, no, if anything - Mace has the advantage in saber combat.
I think Mace will overpower Dooku just as Anakin did. I'm sure Mace could have easily ridirected some of the metal or stopped the falling debris w/ ease. I'm not so sure about absorbing lightning but not only cvan he absorb the lightning w/ his lightsaber but he can redirect it using Vapaad(and I'm pretty sure Mace will have his lightsaber ignited). Let's not also forget that Mace has an unrivaled Shatterpoint ability. I'd say Mace is if not on par w/ Dooku he's right below him. Look at what he did in the Clone Wars series. While not using lightning or levitating massiuve objects(like Sidious or Yoda) he was destroying hundreds of super battle droids unarmed. With a flick of his rist he was also literally breaking them into many pieces. I'd say Dopoku's only advantage of Mace in the Force is his Dark Side abilities taght to him by Sidious. For IMO Mace is everything Anakin is just more exp., saber prowess, shatterpoint, vapaad, greater force mastery, possiby physically(aided w/ the force), and control of his emotions and more tactical. That can only mean bad things for Lord Tyranus.
Right back at you.
Surely someone of your debating abilities would have realized that I didn't claim that a source stated that Mace had the power to take on and defeat Dooku. Rampant did. So, no, Faunus. It doesn't apply.
I guess twenty years of being out of practice with a lightsaber - no one to spar with or hone his skills against - would play into that just a bit, especially after noting that Vader had hundreds of droids to work with plus the time he spent sparring with and training various acolytes and assassins.
The point is that you and Rampant seem to have this delusion that "because you beat them once, you obviously can do it again." This is not the case. Regardless of the circumstance, this is but one example of a previously defeated combatant returning to defeat the one who beat him in the first place.
He absolutely thrashed him twice in AotC (lightning, then duel), and was the victim of circumstance in RotS.
The victim of circumstance? Please. If you, like some of your friends, intend to argue that Dooku lost because Sidious restrained him, or Dooku wasn't going all out, then I will be very happy to shut that case for you.
Dooku lost because a pissed off Anakin wiped his ass with Dooku's defense.
Except his furthering - or at least tuning - of his skills in the lightsaber against Grievous, Sev'rance, Ventress, Skorr, Vos, and a host of others, while Mace met a total of three lightsaber-wielders during the war. And I shouldn't have to mention his advancement in the Force.
He honed his skill against the dark jedi he trained, yes. I've never denied that. But, then again, it is logical to conclude that Mace didn't let his skills slacken either.
For starters he invented it, so he'd obviously be the best-versed in its use. But that doesn't mean he can beat an opponent who mastered a style created for the sole purpose of dueling, and one who has over thirty years on Mace in the weapon's use.
Actually, Mace claims that Depa's bladework may have surpassed his own - and she is trained in Vaapad. However, Vaapad has an advantage against dark side users, which Dooku is. Given that Mace is a master of the deadliest form, is blessed with a shatterpoint ability, and Vaapad is detrimental to dark side users - what stands to reason that Dooku is obviously better?
Oh, yes. Given that he is the master of Makashi. Well, kudos to him. Yoda stalemated him on Geonosis, kicked his ass on Vjun, and Anakin decapitated him shortly after getting pissed off.
No shit, and Mace obviously couldn't beat him.
I am going to use a tactic that you have in the very first post.
"right back at ya!"
Unless, like I said, throwing henchmen at someone obviously is a sign of superiority.
*cough*circumstance*cough* I'll give Anakin that last sequence at the end, but before that? Dooku was absolutely pwning the duo. Have you ever considered that if he'd wanted Anakin out of the fight instead of Obi-Wan, he could have simply reversed the motions (kicking Kenobi, chucking Anakin)?
*cough*bullshit*cough*
When Anakin got pissed, Dooku lasted about ten seconds. Woo! Yay! Go Mr. Makashi Master!
Dooku, absolutely pwning the duo? Yeah... okay. That's why he was constantly giving ground, and the novelization goes so far as to that he was barely holding Obi-Wan (a defensive attacker) and a restrained Anakin at bay.
Hence why he had to separate Obi-Wan from Anakin. Little did he know that that single move was the thing that ended his life.
Yoda, who had what, eight centuries on Dooku? Think, please.
Yoda had over eight centuries on Sidious, who was younger than Dooku - and who is, supposedly, an inferior duelist to the Count. Why don't you think, please?
And if by manhandled you mean managed to graze twice, across the arm and abdomen, then sure, he was flat-out owned.
Hmm. Let's see, Faunus. Why not add the setting in? The battle was set on Vjun - a planet steeped in the dark side of the Force. Naturally, it stifled Yoda's powers. To top it off, Yoda was distracted, trying to save a woman from plummeting to her death. That's when Dooku attacked.
Then guess what happened? He distracted and fled. Such is his tactic, it seems. Twice against Yoda and once against Windu.
Skilled doesn't quite cover it.
Yes, because Grievous acquitted himself so well against Obi-Wan...
First - he also managed to get pwned by Ventress on three separate occasions.
I don't deny that. Yet, Grievous is supposed to be greater than Ventress, a fact that Dooku confirmed in Dark Rendezvous. And Obi-Wan raped him in a fight.
Second - you seem to be ignoring the fact that General Grievous isn't Force-sensitive. Against the high-calibre Jedi, like Mace Windu and Kit Fisto, he really can't do much. It's in the lesser Jedi that he becomes the infamous killing machine he's known to be.
Ah! Good. Great job, Faunus. Now, explain to me why - especially since this is the case - Dooku "was hard pressed to outduel the cyborg"?
Third - Mace happened to find the General's blows to be the strongest and fastest he'd ever had to encounter, so Dooku being hard-pressed shouldn't mean much. And, we often find Dooku lecturing Grievous on his style - the number of moves it took for the cyborg to overwhelm his guards seems to pale in comparison to Dooku's flick of a wrist.
Oh, yes, I forgot. The Magnaguards were supposed to be expecting for Dooku to attack them in the middle of the lecture. Funny. I thought they stopped fighting and listened. My mistake.
"People" being a nine hundred year-old warrior and a boy who Sidious happened to favor. Sonny boy.
Please. Once again, if you're going to argue this, I will have no problem shutting this case down for you. Permenantly. Dooku lost because a pissed off Anakin is too powerful for him. Period.
Bull. It's alright for background and general events only. For summarization of a character's skills and abilities, it amounts to nothing.
M'kay then.
Mace is almost certainly in a league of his own in terms of physical strength.
Guess that means Dooku's in some serious trouble.
See the above: if Dooku had chosen to, he could have kncoked Anakin senseless instead of Obi-Wan, and you know it. Circumstance.
But he didn't. Or maybe he thought a hard kick to the chest that sent Anakin smacking against a wall would be sufficient enough. Or maybe it was because of Dooku's consumate arrogance that made him disable Kenobi - before attacking Skywalker.
Like I said: Anakin curbstomped Dooku because he was too powerful.
He's probably referring to the Force-battle beforehand, but that's not a viable example.
Precisely.
I'd like to see Mace stop multiple assaults of lightning and flying debris with the ease demostrated by Yoda.
You sure? 'Cause Obi-Wan seemed to equip himself nicely against Dooku's lightning. Sidious is far more powerful than Dooku in the Force. Just because Mace had problem with Sidious's doesn't mean that he's going to have problems with Dooku's.
Or do you believe Dooku is equal or superior to Sidious in the Force? Doesn't matter. He's not.
Anyways, if AotC Obi-Wan can easily fend of Dooku's lightning - don't see why RotS Mace Windu can't.
Maybe. But we've seen superior or balanced duelists unleash Force attakcs against their foes in the midst of battle before, but none have ever been a Sith - I'd love to see how quickly Mace recovers from a blast of lightning dealt in the fashion of a Force push.
See the above.
No, if anything, Mace's only chance is in saber combat. [/B]
Which, as it seems - he'd win.
Except his furthering - or at least tuning - of his skills in the lightsaber against Grievous, Sev'rance, Ventress, Skorr, Vos, and a host of others,
Wow, and Mace didn't get the same kind of practice? Please, he was constantly tuning his saber skills with other jedi.
while Mace met a total of three lightsaber-wielders during the war.
Sora Bulq and Assaj Ventress in his own comic, Depa Billaba in Shatterpoint, Dooku in Obsession, General Grievous in LoE, and Sidious in RotS.
No, if anything, Mace's only chance is in saber combat.
What, and you think he has no chance with the force?
If anything, Dooku has displayed greater mastery and control of the force, but Mace has definitely displayed more raw power.
I mean fricking AOTC Obi-Wan was able to block his lightning with ease.
And Mace? Well:
- In Shatterpoint, after he triggers a landslide, one of the kids in the vehicle shoot at him, disrupting his focus. The landslide is lost from his control, and begins to drag the steamcrawler into a volcano. On his back, Mace manages to grip and suspend - in the air - the entire landslide, which was said to consist of several hundred metric tons of rock, earth, and the ilk.
- In Obsession, he gets pissed off at Grievous, who'd just killed Adi Gallia, and slams a giant turret gun and crushes him into the ground, and all it took was a clasp of the hand.