Originally posted by Bardock42
No, to Maine. Lived with an Illegal Immigrant. Maybe they don't, but what's the point? People shouldn't have to live in fear, so if they don't that's just how it is supposed to be.There are two things we have ti differentiate though. The world how I would like to have it and what is actually happening and possible. Of course it would be nice if everyone could just live in freedom and we wouldn't need countries or anything, that is not practicableöe as such so lets get close to it, right? Also a country does not have to put restrictions on who they let in...countries do it...they do not have to. And no, see they don't either, you have millions of illegal immigrants....they don't have to stick to the law...just if they are caught they get problems. And why should a country have such a policy since you people say that Illegal Immigrants can live in your country without fear of getting caught but at the same time if you'd open the boarder you would not be able to take it. Does that make any logical sense? I will tell you the answer, it's "no".
I do not deny that you have immigration that is legal. Get it through your head that I don't talk about how it is, but how it should be. The US is not like Nazi Germany, but you make it seem that because there are worse examples (Nazi Germany) everything must be fine in a country that is not just as bad.
It is also not an attack on the US. If you feel comfortable with it we can talk about Germany, my arguments would be the same. I just thought since you live in teh US, I used to live in the US, the topic is about the US and the US is the most important country of our time we should talk about it. But, hey, we can talk about France, thing is I know shit about France.
People shouldn't have to live in fear, that is correct. But then again I could say lets make thievery legal so thieves do not have to live in fear.
Debating how the world should be is almost moot point. Like you said, if everyone could just get along and be happy working together not against each other then we would have Nirvana, we don't and it isn't going to happen anytime soon.
Yes, countries need to secure their borders in the current state of affairs. If America or any other country for that matter took upon itself to accept every improvised person then that country in turn would become improvised. Countries need to regulate and know who is coming into their country from the outside, look what happened when the U.S. opened it's doors to Cuba in the 80's, Fidel emptied his prisons and dumped criminals on the U.S. Now, before you knee-jerk and imply that I am saying all illegals are criminals, I am not, most do come here to work and better themselves. But not all and that is yet another reason why there are immigration laws and certain steps need to be taken if you want to come into and integrate yourself into another country.
I used the Nazi example as you make it seem that the U.S.'s immigration policies are horrible when they are very fair and considering the amount of illegal aliens in the U.S., they are fairly lax.
I don't see it as an attack, I see it as knee-jerk response and you are not looking at the bigger picture. The topic is "Mexican Immigration", so lets stick to that.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Originally posted by Bardock42
That you folks need Illegal Immigrants.
quote: (post)
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
They do the jobs that most natural born citizens won't touch with a ten-foot clown pole for dirt wages below the already historically low minimum wage.
You do realize that those jobs were done before illegal immigration got to like it is today right? Someone was doing those jobs before... Shit, my first job was in a fast food joint and I did it for minimum wage, $4.25 at the time.
Originally posted by Robtard
You sound like that "FistoftheNorth" guy.
Don't compare me to that guy.
And yes, throughout this nation's history immigration laws have targeted minorities, such as The Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882. Where as immigrants from the UK and Nordic Europe didn't face such issues.
Originally posted by Robtard
You do realize that those jobs were done before illegal immigration got to like it is today right? Someone was doing those jobs before. Shit, my first job was in a fast food joint and I did it for minimum wage, $4.25 at the time.
Yeah, but you were probably 16, it was just a summer job, and gas money was probably your only expense.
Now try to support a family while paying the bills with that same job....exactly. Most Americans aren't willing to do it.
Originally posted by Robtard
People shouldn't have to live in fear, that is correct. But then again I could say lets make thievery legal so thieves do not have to live in fear.Debating how the world should be is almost moot point. Like you said, if everyone could just get along and be happy working together not against each other then we would have Nirvana, we don't and it isn't going to happen anytime soon.
Yes, countries need to secure their borders in the current state of affairs. If America or any other country for that matter took upon itself to accept every improvised person then that country in turn would become improvised. Countries need to regulate and know who is coming into their country from the outside, look what happened when the U.S. opened it's doors to Cuba in the 80's, Fidel emptied his prisons and dumped criminals on the U.S. Now, before you knee-jerk and imply that I am saying all illegals are criminals, I am not, most do come here to work and better themselves. But not all and that is yet another reason why there are immigration laws and certain steps need to be taken if you want to come into and integrate yourself into another country.
I used the Nazi example as you make it seem that the U.S.'s immigration policies are horrible when they are very fair and considering the amount of illegal aliens in the U.S., they are fairly lax.
I don't see it as an attack, I see it as knee-jerk response and you are not looking at the bigger picture. The topic is "Mexican Immigration", so lets stick to that.
Or what about we only make things illegal that hurt others.
Yes, just that you are the one arguing for the side that doesn't want to work together. You pretend to be for the Utopia while you are a part of the problem.
Bullshit, That is an idiotic assumption. Why should it be like that? Lets see, Germany has 80 000 000 people and we get along...the US has 300 000 000 and you get along. So why ould Germany not accept 10 million more...say 20...nah, lets make it 80?
Yes, I have seen Scarface too, boo hoo, but you are curing an itch on a finger by amputating the arm. I am not saying let them get in unsupervised, just make it easy. Easier at least. And make it so that it is not racism that leads it, but just the wish to secure your society.
No, sorry, they are not fair. That is bullshit. If a Mexican wants to come there he has way more trouble to get in legally than me.
Ironic. But it is not a knee jerk reaction. I am just stating where things are unfair as I see it. That they are the way they are is clear to me, you don't need to tell me that.
Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Don't compare me to that guy.And yes, throughout this nation's history immigration laws have targeted minorities, such as The Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882. Where as immigrants from the UK and Nordic Europe didn't face such issues.
Minimum wage isn't the discussion here in as much as illegal immigrants.
Illegal immigrants are just that illegal. If someone is a thief and constantly robs to "better" their life is that justifiable, no.
If their current life is so difficult then regardless of the difficulties to become legal it certainly has to be easier/better then their previous conditions.
Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Don't compare me to that guy.And yes, throughout this nation's history immigration laws have targeted minorities, such as The Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882. Where as immigrants from the UK and Nordic Europe didn't face such issues.
For one, most minorities are not really minorities anymore. Immigration laws today that "target" Mexicans, Guatemalans and El Salvadorians as you say are simply that way because those happen to be the people that are the largest offenders. If 20,000 illegal Italians started coming across the border each and every single day, they would be "targeted" as you say too.
1882? You have to be kidding me... America has changed a lot since 1882.
Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Yeah, but you were probably 16, it was just a summer job, and gas money was probably your only expense.Now try to support a family while paying the bills with that same job....exactly. Most Americans aren't willing to do it.
Correct for the most part... But still, those jobs were done before right? Fast Food, crop gathering, construction labor, cleaning and any other job that is targeted by current illegal immigrants was done before. Don't get me wrong, I am not an advocate of "Throw them all out" as I do not see that as a viable solution, but immigration laws do need to exist and considering that amount of illegal aliens the U.S. currently has, it needs to come to a curb.
Originally posted by Robtard
Correct for the most part... But still, those jobs were done before right? Fast Food, crop gathering, construction labor, cleaning and any other job that is targeted by current illegal immigrants was done before. Don't get me wrong, I am not an advocate of "Throw them all out" as I do not see that as a viable solution, but immigration laws do need to exist and considering that amount of illegal aliens the U.S. currently has, it needs to come to a curb.
And wait a second. There was a time when your country was just 200 000 000...and it worked..and now it is 300 000 000 and it works....maybe free immigration is not that bad, maybe it would not have all the bad consequences we pretend it would have.
Originally posted by Bardock42
And wait a second. There was a time when your country was just 200 000 000...and it worked..and now it is 300 000 000 and it works....maybe free immigration is not that bad, maybe it would not have all the bad consequences we pretend it would have.
That would be great, make immigration free!
Just make sure that they also read and speak english and do a background check to make sure there is no criminal record or previous offenses.
Originally posted by Bardock42
And wait a second. There was a time when your country was just 200 000 000...and it worked..and now it is 300 000 000 and it works....maybe free immigration is not that bad, maybe it would not have all the bad consequences we pretend it would have.
Where do you stop then? What if America shipped every person South of the border all the way to Tierra Del Fuego and we could all live in la-la land. Wait, we should also bring in all the Canadians too, can't be selective you know...
Originally posted by Robtard
Where do you stop then? What if America shipped every person South of the border all the way to Tierra Del Fuego and we could all live in la-la land. Wait, we should also bring in all the Canadians too, can't be selective you know...
Shouldn't be a problem. I mean it will stop at 6 billion.... for now. But do you have any not bullshit arguments? Like some that you did not make up to not have to deal with the reality that if all those illegal immigrants were legal it would not make anything worse for you?
Originally posted by Bardock42
maybe free immigration is not that bad, maybe it would not have all the bad consequences we pretend it would have.
Did you know that more people were killed, raped, or robbed by illegal immigrants last year, than all the people killed in the 3 years of the Iraq war and 9/11 combined?
I'm not for throwing anybody out, all who are here should be made citizens, and should learn the language, get backround checks, and then start paying taxes.
They can stay.
But everbody else in the world has to wait 5 to years to get here, and go through the process.
Mexicans should too.
I'm no racist either, I come from East San Jose, and most of my friends in high school were black or hispanic. I've worked washing dishes, at construction sites, and in wherehouses with illegal mexican immigrants. They're great people, fun-loving, hard-working who want a better life, for the most part.
But don't pretend that only the good ones come over.
We get the shit ones too.
Final point: Though they may live in destitute conditions, and may want more from life (just as people in India, Africa, etc... do), and though our country's principle's are to allow them to have that better life here....
The whole bloody world cannot live here.
Logistically, half of the whole world couldn't even live here, unless we start building the 20 story high apartments everywhere, like in Blade Runner or something.
No, other countries citizens must stand up and fight as ours did to create a better country where they are.
That's the solution to the world's problems, not to send them all here.
Originally posted by Bardock42
Shouldn't be a problem. I mean it will stop at 6 billion.... for now. But do you have any not bullshit arguments? Like some that you did not make up to not have to deal with the reality that if all those illegal immigrants were legal it would not make anything worse for you?
That was in response to your "bullshit argument". What are you talking about now? Making all the illegal immigrants that are in America now legal or immigration laws in general? They are two separate arguments.